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Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
August 13, 2004
12:38 pm
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Hey twinks,

Please, please, do pardon this post, but I do hope you read & respond. I need an ear, and I’m hoping you’ll be the ‘ear’. Plus, hell, I’m allowed to post/get involved ONCE in a while, ?

I’m going to give a very 'un-Zen' approach to your comment: "I was going to suggest that perhaps you get yourself fitted with a chastity belt, Tez, and give the key to someone reliable for safekeeping, but perhaps I’d better not. The SC might object to such talk."

OUCH!!!!!

I hear just about every day or so, comments like this. "SC won't like that", "SC doesn't let you do that", "SC will kick you off the site for that". How about we use common sense, rather than using the “The SC will get mad”, as a cop-out for what we do or don’t do here?

How would you feel, if you were me, and these were the comments made 'about you'? Years of comments. Such cold, brief, casual comments about me. Don’t I sound like a judgmental, morally uptight, sexually uptight, anal controlling asshole? I sure am painted that way by such unrelenting, unprovoked, and unprotested comments like this. So, I’m protesting to you now. What would happen if I protested all comments made about me that were untrue on this site? Whew. Look out, the site would go down like a submarine.

Sometimes, this site is on the verge of being a 1 button spontaneous delete function because I certainly don't need in my life such inaccurate descriptions of my difficult decisions and interventions here. Sometimes, it really does hurt, frustrate me, and make my job even 20x harder when everyone visiting here, is reading and getting the notion that the person who operates these boards is a jerk. People here are reading global inaccuracies about 'the person who created, funded, and nurtured these boards'. By global, I mean brief statements that encompass so many judgments, morals, and decisions that make me a person, like, “the SC might object to such talk”.

This website to be enjoyed as it is, and as you see & enjoy it now, is the result and consequence of one kick in the gut after another for me. For the record, I do not object to talking about sexuality, love-making techniques, playboy, playgirl, gay sex, anal sex, oral sex, sex toys, drugs+sex, or whatever anyone is thinking or wondering what I ‘Might Object to”. Thus, I say it’s a global statement to just say ‘I might object’… cuz, what “DO” I object to? But you say it, and I ask, why would it matter if I did object? Is there fear involved that I might write a post here? God forbid, make an oratory like this? Frightening! It’s frightening for me! On the other side of that, I do know that just the utterance of the word ‘sex’ can be a scary word to read or hear or focus on in the “general boards” for folks who are in real imminent sexual danger (wives who are repeatedly raped by their husbands), by people who have just been raped or beaten (physically violated), or even people who are in severe general emotional chaos. So, over here, certainly is the better place for talk about sex in general, for that reason. And, for the record, I don't just kick people off for exchanging email addresses, phone numbers, addresses, or phony directions to their houses. Instead, in the situations that ‘catch my eye’, I try to assess, address, usually just delete, or re-direct if I feel it is going in a walk on eggshell direction, or a previously dangerous precedented path (my knowledge of what happens from years of experience of managing these boards).

And again, I say, for the record, sex-talk, is absolutely fantastic. It’s a part of life. It is ‘life’. But talk about personally getting into the pants with others on this website (it's my opinion, that my use of the phrase 'getting into the pants' is justified when there are written exchanges, and other upleading exchanges, regarding giving someone a FULL body massage (what does FULL mean?), and asking how to drive someone sexually wild – what does that mean?). This is an example, of sex-talk that I don't think is appropriately, safely, or responsibly placed between helping people anywhere, on this website. Why? I just said why. It isn’t appropriate, safe, or responsible to lead others on or create a cyber-sexual relationship on a Counseling Website! It’s illegal for a therapist to do so with a client, and for those same reasons that it is illegal for a therapist to form a sexual or interpersonal relationship with a client, is the reason it is not to be encouraged, pretended, or eluded to here when one person is ‘helping’ another. There are ‘helping/therapeutic’ relationships going on here. What happens when in any way, those become ‘sexual or interpersonal’ in nature? They are not to be minced, or they become dicey and very likely passionately harmful not only for those involved, but even potentially more so for those witness to it.

Is it shaming when I put a finger on sexual flirtation? It could go either way. I call it, and it can either be protested and hammered, or let go. h

I feel, violated, when folks feel they can create such exchanges on a helping website that I have been tortured at times to keep safe. I am of course assuming you made the above comment because of the WD & Juanita thread(s). I was bashed and misunderstood a good deal there. There are other places for interpersonal sexual flirtations on the internet. It’s what the internet is all about, right? Go to any other place for that. Sexual flirtation is not to be mixed with helping/therapeutic relationships here. Embracing hugs, affection, warmth, healing energy, an occasional kiss, lots of encouragement, etc are however 1000% needed here.

Is this post necessary? For my sanity, it must be because I'm posting it. I’m pretty angry about the adnauseum judgments of the “SC”. Folks seem to feel they can poke a comment at my methods & decisions or ‘what I might do’ whenever they feel like writing it. Others don’t want to be judged here, and neither do I. Others don’t want me to step in and hurt them or tell them what they can or can’t do, or make judgments about what they’re saying, and neither do I. Is it any coincidence that the initials for Sex Clinic are SC? Is it any coincidence that creating an almost direct verbal sexual encounter, my receiving emails about it, and my name being used in the same sentence as Sex Clinic on the general boards any coincidence in my responding to it?

You, I’m sure, don’t like this post directed at you, picking you out of the crowd, I’m sure. My sincere (truly) apology for making you the visual ‘target’ here especially for only a 7 word seemingly harmless comment. It’s not harmless in my opinion however. I'd hope that folks on this site (but particularly you since I know you’ll read this) can, could, or will understand the difference between an ogre for a site coordinator, and one that has a really tough, demanding, and superiorly unappreciated job. Yes, I am human (God forgive me for that!!), but I’m not at all what everyone is saying about me!

But, all that aside now and forever, and forgotten since it’s off my chest. Can you help me out? I’d like to know what you think the more Zen approach to my reading such judgments about me could be in the future? Will I get flack from folks for this post? If so, I’d like help, I ask for help, in determining how to ‘more appropriately’ react. Shouldn’t I make these decisions for myself? I see my choices as 1) take the site down like a submarine 2) hit delete 3) post and post and post in attempts to explain myself to everyone and defend all wrongful accusations, and therefore, give up my time to have a life 3) ignore inaccurate statements about me even though they become a detriment to this site as it is run now, or … do you see a need for me here at all? A need for anyone to manage this site? Managing meaning, shut down all incoming email for the site, allow multiple nicknames, email exchanges, severe aggression, and have folks on the site responsible for directly sending cash or checks to the hosting company? Can you see my dilemma? Does anyone understand my dilemmas and hardships here? Is there, a need, at all for me? I prefer not to post anymore though cuz I get so much flack, it’s ridiculous! (I used to post much more frequently when I was helping to guide & build this discussion environment). It is 99.99% without need for my direct input anymore. But in all honesty, I’ve teetered probably 10+ times on the delete button. Not so much recently, but it becomes increasingly edgier for me with each encounter here. It’s a building resentment that I would like to dispense, disperse, dissolve, or learn to manage, since this is a problem that is obviously not going away. So, to use ‘fear’ as a driving force as talked about here on the liberation brew threads intellectually between you, Tez, and other great-thinkers, I do ‘fear’ that it will come to “delete” at some time in the future. And Zen would say what is the harm in that? None. I suppose my choice made by making this post is #1, as by making this post, I am inadvertently taking the site down like a submarine by ‘defending’ the site coordinator’s integrity, methods, or decisions as a person. I am assuming of course that many folks here feel they could do a better job, and still have time for a life. Does someone here want the job? It’s complicated! Requires programming knowledge! Time! Thick skin! Never ending patience (I don’t have that). Making decisions and interventions that are 100% agreed upon (I don’t know how to do that either!) I’m not qualified! I come to this conclusion because so many of you point out the limitations these boards have… I am the limitation?! I prevent these boards from being all they could be? In MY opinion, I don’t agree. I contest. I am contesting here in this post. You can do just about anything healthy & reasonable under the sun on these boards. Much more so than anyone has ever done. All I ask that you maintain anonymity, healthy relationships & interactions with one another, and respect not only these boards, but respect me, because I am a human being, and I have more to do for these boards than I care to explain. My duties require respect. Please respect that these boards are here for people who need them.

But in closing, I don’t at all want to discredit or disregard all of the positive reinforcement I do receive in email, and the countless people that make posts reporting that this website has been helpful for them!!!! I am VERY VERY GLAD FOR THAT. It is mainly, for that the helpful nature of this site, and my stubbornness to take a punching in life but keep fighting the good fight anyway, that this site still exists. And although I would like feedback, please know that my response to your feedback here, will not be at this length, or with as much vigor & spice. In fact, I may not respond at all, for I am not naïve or unaware of how my posting on such topics vibrates here. I would like to post more, I do have a lot of positive things to say I hope folks know, but I’ve found in the past that I get so many questions or requests, that I soon cannot keep up. People post to me & think I will find their post & respond. So it seems like I am ignoring folks. So, in the end, it becomes exhausting for me just to post even on the sunny side!

All that for a 7 word comment. Make it 8 or more next time and I’ll run another word count on it! Yes, I have a cynical sense of humor at times, and I have feelings too!

Ps: truly a ps. Tez, so sorry you're having an emotionally unrested time. I guess based on my post, I'm in the same boat as you. I love you man. I really do. That's not sexual! I don't want to offend myself!

August 13, 2004
7:52 pm
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SC:

Ow yah goin'. I haven't posted directly to you in years, have I. That's neglectful of me isn't it - sorry about that.

You said:

"Ps: truly a ps. Tez, so sorry you're having an emotionally unrested time. I guess based on my post, I'm in the same boat as you. I love you man. I really do. That's not sexual! I don't want to offend myself!"

Thanks ever so much for those kind thoughts. Life has a way of teaching me that no matter how much I think I might know about me, I really know 'diddly squat'. Though an emotional brick between my eyes, thrown by life, usually gets my attention. 🙂

I can see how most posters to this site, myself included, take you for granted. We presume that because you have put all of this site in place as a caring person, then you must 'have it all together'. We tend to overlook your personal needs and expect you to be bulletproof. We sometime behave like inconsiderate children who automatically assume that our 'needless' mums and dads exist only for their benefit. Hmmmm! Mea culpa!

As for when you said:

"... I don't want to offend myself!"
Now that is verrrrry Zen. 🙂

Both 'you' and 'I' are 'one' and 'all', indeed! There is really no one to offend anyone - yet we are here. Isn't it magic!!

August 13, 2004
8:12 pm
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Twinks.

"As I said, it was supposed to be a joke, an attempt to make Tez laugh. There is rarely much evidence of humour in his posts, and that saddens me. "

And I did have a laugh. 🙂 In fact you are closer to the truth than you realise. I am on the brink of deciding whether to retreat from the madness of the dancing world for a while or not. Until my motivations to dance become more love driven rather than fear driven, I might withdraw and just be 'with myself' as opposed to being 'by myself'. That is indeed a 'chastity belt' of a kind isn't it.

Besides, as a student, I've started a course on the Diamond Sutra at the Ch'an temple locally. I could invest my time and energies into seeking 'refuge from fear' in the Triple Gems of Ch'an Buddhism. Now that is something to which it is worth retreating.

PS. Did they ever make male chastity belts? I thought that for males they used a blunt knife. My eyes are watering. 🙂 Now there's some crude Aussie humor for you.

August 13, 2004
8:39 pm
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hey twinks & tez, i'd like to speak to you both at once, as a group thing.

i'll use all lowercase if that's cool with you.

first, i'm not usually on, on a weekend, weeknight, esp not a friday night! ooh, had to hit the shift key for the... ! that's hard. i'll try to relax more in this post.

i'm on probably because of the same reason i was on this morning, and the same reason you both write. i like to read sometimes when i want or need to. i do not, have it all together. does buddha have it altogether tez? ouch, another shift key on the question mark. i am feeling those... been a long week.

as for the gut reaction to my post twinks, i'm actually glad you feel and recognize it. and sad you experienced it with my post. my ultimate wish is that when i post, folks know, that i mean no harm. like reading tez's posts, i think folks know he's a gentle wise giant. no harm there, no harm intended, no harmed gained.

however. because of my roles. i am constantly peppered with insulting comments as such. it is, like tez put it, like a parent sacrificing their life, blood, and body for their children with no respect or attempts at the children using self control. i let it go about 200 times, then, i find someone to hear me out, and i've yet, to ever, on this site, have someone hear me out or have compassion for me. it just hasn't happened, except i'd say, your posts are pretty close. i do not, for the solid record, have it altogether. much far from, but i keep trying like everyone else. i'm human. i'm not a machine or computer over here. i'm a stubborn, loving, god-damned hard headed adventurous all balls and glory person. give it to me.

this. this website. is my baby. my only child. i gave birth to this baby. it was longer than 9 months gestation. she is only 6 years old. she is my child. i love her. i cherish her with my heart and soul. i love her. i protect her. i want her to grow up with all of the love and opportunities that helping and loving people have to offer. she needs me. she always has, and i think, she always will. i'm scared of that. i love her so much. she has helped so many people. i've seen it. i've watched it. i've cried for it. i always will. she touches you, and you touch me.

99.999% of what i posted in the last post twinks, was for your ear, not for your heart. it was full of generalization & reiterations of past hurt i've experienced on these boards.

and that's all i have to say for now. mish mosh and no sense, and not much of a brigade for a site coordinator. i'm just a human being, who gave birth to this place.

peace. everyone here, is one. that is my dream, it is my deepest hope. that, and i hope to get it more together in my life as well.

August 15, 2004
7:13 am
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SC.
You said:

"does buddha have it altogether tez? ouch, another shift key on the question mark. i am feeling those... been a long week."

The Buddha, the Tathagata, is the 'All seeing All'. That's the penultimate togetherness!!

On another level, yes, historically I'm happy to say that the Shakyamuni Buddha did get it all together 2500 years ago. He was a man of remarkable insight; such that science is only now starting to catch up to him in some small parts of what he taught.

He spent 45 years trying to convey the 'reality' about themselves to people of all levels of human understanding. He then went beyond all suffering altogether when he left his body.

The Buddha taught that all the things of this world are transient and without self-nature, including the emotional 'self' that I try so valiantly to protect and placate in fruitless ways.

About the Buddha, Chan Master Hsing Yun said:
"The Buddha taught that sentient beings suffer because they do not realize that their "selves" are empty. A bodhisattva [enlightened being] seeks to save them by helping them realize that, while they do not have an absolute self-nature, they do have a buddha nature. Their buddha nature rests in nirvana. Sentient beings attain nirvana when they free themselves from the delusions of having a separate self."

According to the Buddha, Nirvana permeates all things and is in the here now, no where else. It is only our deluded mind that stops us from seeing the absolute magnificence of this world.

Put simply, if we can but lose the delusions of 'selfhood' we lose our emotional pain. We can come to know the ecstatic joy of experiencing our true nature. This is not to say that our emotional center, the amygdala, would never be triggered. It means that our attitude to any negative emotional arousal would be one of unattached, pure awareness joyfully musing over the impermanence of our interesting biological processes. There would be no sense of an 'I' that is doing the suffering - so no 'mind' would suffer as a result.

All suffering is in the mind and caused by the mind. The mind can also bring about the cessation of suffering once it sheds its delusions of 'selfhood'. If only I could do that with the snap of my fingers!!

Come the day ... 🙂

Love yuh too, SC!

August 15, 2004
7:20 am
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Twinks.

Where is the boundary between your mind and mine? If you can't find it, then perhaps there isn't one.

There is no 'mind' to defend only love. I hope you can feel it as I can right now.

Love yuh, Twinkie.

August 15, 2004
6:58 pm
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Twinks.

"Sometimes I feel that my mind is just trapped inside my bony skull, and it's going 'Noooooo..... let me outa here!' "

I think that a lot of people, myself included, feel like that. I have found it fascinating to sit in meditation and to try to 'see'(as opposed to think about) the boundaries of my mind. I have had some fascinating visions when I have somehow managed to expand my 'self-imposed' boundaries. I firmly believe that the great masters can at will see into the minds of others. It is claimed by Buddhists that the Buddha Mind knows all minds. Since All sees All, and the Buddha mind is our true nature, that is hardly surprising. Put succinctly, we limit ourselves!

Happiness can be thought of as getting back to our true selves, which means losing our delusions of selfhood. Conversely, unhappiness can be thought of as caused by the deluded thinking that, in the interests of the self, we have to attain, change, maintain, or keep somebody, some place or something to be happy.

I have just had an insight into myself that I would like to share with you. When I was a small child how did I learn to deal with fear??? I learnt to run to my mommy!! My mother was a very possessive, fearful person who, for her own needs, fostered this dependency. What did I do?? I rebelled and even as a very young child had terrible fights with my mother over her possessive and controlling ways.

The key insight that I have just had is that I still subtley use 'running back to mom' as a solution to my unfocussed, unfounded and undefined existential fears.

However, in my unconscious and largely unbeknown to me, I make my partner my 'surrogate mom'. When I haven't got a partner as is the case now, I feel an overpowering need to get one. When I have one, I feel a sense of frustration and of being cheated, when 'mom' doesn't effectively reduce my anxiety levels for me.

Put simply, I haven't successfully completed my childhood individuation process and learnt to live without depending on 'a mom' to always be there for me in case I get into trouble! This is, I think, where my 'fear of abandonment' comes from.

Of course I also resent possessive and controlling partners just as I resented my mom curtailing my freedom as a child. This, I think, is where my 'fear of emeshment' comes from.

I'm dammed if I do and dammed if I don't have a partner. Hmmmm!! I obviously have to learn to recognize and to deal with subtle fear(background anxiety) within myself, for myself, with myself, by myself! This is where Ch'an(Zen) presents an elegant solution to existential fear. Thus the relevance of all this to this thread.

In regard to the above, I suspect that I might be somewhat the 'norm' rather than an exception. Many tough battle hardened soldiers cry out for their mothers as they die. Yet the same soldiers, in life, would have resented the above implications. I don't think things are all that different for women, except that they tend to mother each other somewhat, whereas men, myself included, would find overt mothering sickening!!

Is it possible that some of your frustrations with 'your man' are coming from the lack of his meeting your childhood learnt 'emotional needs'. If so what are these needs? Can you clearly see them in your childhood context?

August 16, 2004
10:15 am
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Hi Twinks,

I’m sorry if I gave you the wrong idea with that comment about ‘feeling gut feelings’. I said I’m glad you feel & recognize it, not because I think you are a cold fish, but because I get the notion that other folks here think that I am a cold fish (have no feelings as a human being). I too, get these kinds of gut feelings when I read insulting comments against me. So, I say glad, only because I therefore believe you can relate to how I am feeling, but so sorry you felt it! In fun or not, I find these kinds of comments towards me degrading and harmful. I did not intend to scapegoat you twinks, of course you’re not the cause or reason, just a prime example of the kinds of negativity I read ‘about myself’ so much. I know you’re sorry, my only wish is for it all to stop. And on that note, I'll stop and let you and tez continue your enlightening conversation.

August 16, 2004
7:20 pm
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Twinks

You said:

"But you weren’t on about the problems, you were thinking about my pain, apparently generated by the problems, and its origins, is that right?"

Spot on!! problems are just symptoms, signposts; very useful but not the causes! Taking aspirins or morphine for a broken, smashed leg might remove the painful symptoms but without more insightful intervention gangarine will result. Gangarine of the mind is much worse.

And you said:

"... ... A need to be heard, Tez. That’s all. And that’s what keeps me, and no doubt many others, coming back here. You are hearing me. And that is what this site is about. "

Yep! Yep! Yep! We all have that wise old man or woman deep inside us. Sometimes it take a little time and inner quietness for us to first recognize and then to listen to that voice. Sometimes when we are 'prodded' enough by life and "want to be heard" that small voice finds a way of expressing its own truth to ourselves. Then bingo, the lights go on.

We are all life's mirrors and sounding boards to each other. That is what makes this site so valuable.

Here is something to think about:

From earliest childhood our minds have learnt to seek relief from our fears in certain patterns of behavior. One 'solution' was to turn to mum and dad for comfort. This is when we wanted to be 'heard' by them. We craved recognition, validation to overcome our feelings of valuelessness. In adulthood, we no longer have mum and dad there, but we STILL EMPLOY THE SAME PATTERNS OF BEHAVIOR SEEKING SEEKING PAIN RELIEF. So what do we do? We seek comfort (fear relief) from our friends, partners, this site etc. Yes, comfort is good! But 'comfort' is morphine for the symptoms of a mind that is feeling dis-ease, confusion, turmoil, self-doubt, a lack of self-worth - you name it. Comfort, the understanding and sharing of our pain with others is nice and helpful. But seeking change in other's behavior to meet our emotional needs is like seeking to focus on propping up the tree that fell across our leg breaking it; like pretending that there is nothing wrong with our leg by taking morphine to remove the symptoms from our minds. Sure, others have problems. But their problems are theirs not ours! We can help them if they ask. But demanding that they change to suit us, no matter how desirable that might be for both parties in a relationship, is like demanding that it rain in a drought.

We all need to look within for the source of our own emotional pain and to deal with that in an informed way - especially me. We need to first recognize and then set the 'broken bones' of the mind. Our pain is a great 'signpost' pointing to the cause that lies within us, not without.

August 16, 2004
9:51 pm
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Hello all. I have read the last few posts here. Quite intense.

I was part of a group meditation a few months back. The idea was to consider a time in your childhood when you felt alone or abandoned and try to help yourself. This was the most freeing experience for my little girl (me). I was about 9 or 10 and at a picnic at my aunt's home. The adults were drinking and a family friend told me to go to his car, there was a present for me there. Needless to say, I ran to the car only to find...nothing for me. I cried and cried out of pure embarrassment. I could not understand why someone would do this and why my parents did not intervene. My meditation allowed me to be free of the emotions of the moment and I approached this little girl who was upset and so young and I hugged her and told her it was ok and what happened was not nice at all. Sounds fluffy but, I have let go of this memory that has been there for 35 years.

We can change the reality of a past experience if we can use the tools given to us.

As far as our pain coming from our past, this is true but as adults it is imperative we understand all angles of htese experiences including the perspective of the ones doing what we think was hurting us. Growing from this understanding is inevitable but many of us refuse to let it go. We are vindicated with the blame toward another. Yes we are all mirrors and so we really need to see what, in the experience was our part.

Tez, woman do not mother each other as much as we mother the men in our lives. I have found for my part, I am attracted to men like my father. My recent ex, hates his mother. Why? Unsure. But with this in mind, why did I set myself up for an obvious hurt from a man who is so incapable of knowing a woman's needs? I supose I thought I would be the reason he changed. LOL My god how egotistical!!! I guess I was stuck in the drought and believed I could make it rain!! You see, I am finally getting that there are two sides in all relationships. Mine and theirs.

And men? They look for someone to take care of their emotional needs which are different for each one of them. Men are not given the option in this society to be human. They are expected to carry the weight financially, sexually, and physically. Yes, this changes, slowly. But in the meantime, how do we heal these broken relationships? How do we admit that we are all involved in this together?

August 17, 2004
6:49 pm
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Workinonit.

You asked the question:

"... But in the meantime, how do we heal these broken relationships?"

My answer would be that both parties need to realize at a deep level that relationships are about sharing what each has to give to the other, not about grasping at getting needs fulfilled by the other. The former is love driven, the latter fear driven.

And you followed it with the question:

"... How do we admit that we are all involved in this together? "

I guess the answer to that is that each of us needs to look at our own suffering and to use it in a positive way to learn that we are all involved heavily in 'interbeing 'as opposed to the illusion of 'independent being'.

August 17, 2004
8:13 pm
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The Toltec wisdom reveals love in an independent being form. I am trying to understand my role in the relationship ending so that maybe I can have a relationship someday thet will be truly fulfilling. Then I think, why? Why not create that for me with me but it only means lonliness to me. No body to be intimate with and this is important to me right now!

So, I am workinonit

August 18, 2004
6:12 pm
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I prefer the word, and idea, of 'interdependence.'

I have to think about this concept. It certainly makes alot of sense. I think my problem most of my life is refusing to ask for help, so I see the problem with independence. I have fostered quite an ability to be a creative problem solver but saying,"Can you help me?", thats tough.

Why, I wonder. It makes me feel like a failure. I think that is my bottom line. Now, as I try to look at my own reactions, I am trying to develop thoughtful responses and I guess I need to look at this one a bit more. After all, why would I wanty to teach my kids to think they could always do it themselves? Sounds Narcisstic. (I think I spelled that wrong)

August 25, 2004
5:29 pm
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I would like this insight myself. I tried thining about this but I think it takes meditation because my head started to hurt> LOL

August 26, 2004
11:02 pm
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Twinks.

"A cup is made of bottom and sides, but its use lies in its emptiness"

Lao Tzu.

I can 'see' several depths of meaning in this statement.

Firstly, a 'full' cup by the very nature of its 'fullness' is rendered unusable until 'emptied'. If the cup is seen as an analogy for our 'mind', then likewise, before it can 'see reality' it has to be emptied of all its delusions and past conditioning. Then as a consequence, it can be 'filled' with what really is. Thus the emptiness of the 'enlightened' mind makes it useful in seeing the 'thusness' just as an empty cup is able to be used for filling with new nectar.

At a much deeper level it is the cup's emptiness that contains its potential, since all things within the universe lie within it - One contains All ... All sees All.

The discriminating, differentiating and analysing intellect can make no sense of the above because of its very conditioned and word dependent nature.

August 26, 2004
11:08 pm
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Twinks.

Back to your request of 19th August 2004, sorry about my procrastination. You said:

“5-Aug-04 Tez, could it be that the longing for connection or re-connection with the ‘ideal mother figure’ is the basis of ALL human desire – and there I originally wrote ‘male’ and then deleted it – rather than just the intention of those seeking the perfect mother figure they perceive to have been ‘missing’ from their infancy? Is that what you actually meant, and I missed it?”

No … I didn’t mean this. Our ‘perfect’ caregiver figure is the psycho-physiological template formed by us as infants based on our perception of the characteristics projected by our ‘far from perfect’ caregivers. Whether we are male or female, as adults, we are attracted to partners who, in my opinion, we perceive meets the characteristics of this psycho-physiological template. The father, as well as the mother - that is if both are present for significant periods of our infancy and childhood - also contributes their characteristics to this template.

Whether we liked our fathers and mothers or not may govern how we behave towards the ‘template matching’ partner. However the closer the match the higher will be the attraction, irrespective of our likes or dislikes for the image the template contains. In my case, I severely dislike both the ‘template’ within me as well as my memories of my now deceased mother. The women that I ‘fall in love with’ all have very vindictive, deceitful hurtful natures just like my mother had. They even partially match her appearance as she looked when I was a child.

Falling out of love is in my opinion the realization that we only projected the ‘matching’ image, seen in our partner, into him or her; i.e. our partner was not who we ‘thought them to be’ in the beginning. In my case the fatal attraction persisted despite the intense pain caused by my proximity to my ‘template match’. As a child, I similarly wanted my mother irrespective of the pain she inflicted upon me by using the threat of the withdrawal of her ‘love’ as her source of power over me.

If we had close to perfect mothers and fathers, we are attracted to really nice people who make very satisfying partners and who nurture us naturally for which we love them all the more. These marriages are the ideal ones that we see around us. But they are few and far between, I suspect.

Once we find our template match we usually try to get them to ‘love’ us just as we wanted our mother to love us long ago. If they respond we usually unconsciously recognize that there is a ‘template mismatch’; then as a consequence, we fall out of love with them. If they don’t ‘love’ us as we expect then we do our best to change them. Hmmmm! We are dammed if we do change them and dammed if we don’t – that’s the catch 22.

I hope this clears up my point. However, the above at best is just intellectual modeling of human behavior and is thus like the finger pointing to the moon, not being the moon, it is not the truth but just a shallow representation of it. We are not the models that we create in our deluded minds, but far more.

August 27, 2004
10:55 am
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workinonit
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I have a book that basically takes the reader through the steps for writing you own story ...as you would like to change it.

Tez, I think this concept is 100% correct (give or take a milli-percent) My first husband replaced what I felt I wanted in a father. Getting over that took me 20 years. My second husband represented the emotional distance my father had. I think now that you have brought this again to my attention, it is time to work this through. Maybe then.....

August 27, 2004
4:27 pm
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My father left my mother and brother and I when I was about six years of age. My mom married my step father a couple of years later, maybe less. This man didn't have any personality what so ever. Not a father figure, that young boy may have needed. Can you guys help me to realize what kind of influence this may have had me.

August 28, 2004
2:28 pm
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Nader,

What kind of contact did you have with your biological father through the years? Did your step father interact with you in any positive ways? Negative ways?

Just a bit more info would help if you are hoping to get feedback regarding this theory for attraction.

August 28, 2004
2:30 pm
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My step fahters personality, HMMMM thats dificult. My mom and step father have been married 35 years. I probably carried on more conversations in one day with various individuals than I have with step-father in 35 years.
No contact wit hmy father for about 15 years. He didn't show up until my niece was born.
I think I've blocked alot of the time with my father out. From what I can remember, He beat me till I was bleeding one time. I used to have dreams that A giant was coming through town and I had to hide under a table to escape. I guess deep inside I had thoughts of loosing both of my parents. Ithink I knew what was going on but I shut it out. My mom seemed to be leaning more towards my step-fathers affairs than my brother and I.

August 29, 2004
9:38 pm
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Twinks.

If we look closely at the type of people to which we are POWERFULLY attracted, then we will see therein a reflection of our 'ideal' partner 'template' that we harbor within our psyche.

My 'ideal' partner is a 5 foot tall blonde, slightly overweight, with a nasty, spiteful, vindictive nature and one who is artificial and full of deceit. This was a close description of my mother when I was an infant and a child.

Of course any relationship that I might have with such a person as my template dictates is doomed from the start. If I change her into a loving person, then she no longer meets the template match and I 'fall out of love' with her. If she doesn't change, my life becomes a misery and I can't stand the pain of rejection and emeshment.

Upon carefully reflecting upon the nature of the people to whom you are powerfully attracted sexually, you will probably see the similarity between them and either one or both of your primary caregivers in your childhood. Of course, our mothers and fathers are usually our primary caregivers.

Does your present partner bear any resemblance to your mother/father/primary caregiver in any way whatsoever? Or did he mirror them before you got to know him well?

August 31, 2004
2:49 pm
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Hah! Hit the nail on the head again. I love me some pitiful alcoholics who have no self-control and tend to be self-absorbed in their own personal aggregates, wallowing in the misery that only substance abusers seem to torture themselves with.

Then I look at my Papa, who I love to bits, and he is that broken man. Of course. So I rage about the alcoholism, they try to quit, and the whole relationship is about keeping the guy mentally together.

At night, when I try to fall asleep, my mind distracts me with continual thoughts of me, me, I, I, I... trying desperately to convince me that "I" am real. What's that all about, man.

September 1, 2004
12:13 am
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Cici.
You said:

"At night, when I try to fall asleep, my mind distracts me with continual thoughts of me, me, I, I, I... trying desperately to convince me that "I" am real. What's that all about, man."

What is it that your mind fears will be the consequences if you find that your "I" is not really "real"?

September 1, 2004
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Twinks.

Having been through the emotional ringer myself recently, I do gladly excuse you.

My partner of 17 years is back with me now. We are going to give our relationship another try. She seems like an angel compared to the emotional 'timebomb' that I broke up with 2 months ago. My almost perfectly matching template, 'the timebomb', rang me a week ago and left an abusive call on the answering machine. She was trying to goad me into making contact with her; something I have studiously avoided for sometime. Needless to say, it didn't work. She has broken off her crazy engagement to be married to this other guy and is trying to get back with me. Since I'm back with my old partner, there's no chance for her now whatsoever. I don't think there ever was. I'm Mr. Nitro and she is Ms. Glycerine. Put the two of us together and ... blammm!! Nitro+glycerine plus a little horizontal mamboing and ..... causes plus conditions equals consequences.

September 2, 2004
3:37 am
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Twinks.

Thanks for your good wishes. Time will tell what is in store for me.

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