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Your thoughts on the use of derogatory words on this site for women
April 14, 2006
12:14 pm
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lollipop3
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People, people, people.....

Can we not all take a step back and see that 75 posts later, everyone is at each other's throats over A WORD!

That was my point earlier...it is only a word. Why are you all letting one stupid little word that means nothing, have that much power over you?

I don't get it.

I understand that it is an "ugly" word, especially when used for the intent of hurting someone...but in the grand scheme of things....it is only a word and it can't hurt you if you don't let it. Instead of blaming each other for using the word...I think we need to take repsonsiblity for our own feelings and why it has that much of an effect some of you.

Please, everyone simmer down and take it for what it is.

As always....just my opinion.

Lolli

April 14, 2006
1:22 pm
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kc30
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Heya- just a comment on "to the masses" posts...

As an active participant on this very interesting thread, I read the posts that say to "chill" or to take a timeout, and as they weren't directed at anyone in particular, it sounds like they are directed at everyone who participated.

I don't believe I need to chill or take a timeout. I don't believe I was at anyone's throat, nor have I blamed anyone for using a word. I don't need to relax, nor have I poked a stick at anyone. I am not feeling grief, nor am I hurting. I am very relaxed already. I'm not emotional or heated either!! 馃檪

I love the message that ya'll are trying to convey, but I don't like being lumped into a general category.

If there is feedback for me specifically, please address it to me directly. I find it far more effective to be addressed as an individual, not part of a group of varying and diverse personalities and opinions.

I find I am often hesitant to give feedback to an individual specifically, so I will sometimes speak in generalities, hoping the person will read between the lines. I've also found that this rarely works. Clear and direct communication is best for me.

Much thanks.

kc

April 14, 2006
1:28 pm
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site coordinator
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Hey Everybody.

Do ya'll really want me to post on this? 馃檪

I like the last 3 posts best from eve, cici, and lolli... the theme of "let's take a break", and enjoy something else in life rather than trying to finish what could very well be one of the millions of never ending debates in life... but what I'm hearing a few times, is sew's request for an apology for being hurt...

I don't really know what to do about that part... sometimes, for some human reason, I've found that an apology goes a long way. It doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, it means, "I hear your pain, and I wish I wasn't one of the ingredients that caused it."

...I don't know what to 'do' about some of the personal hurtful conclusions "about" each other that are being drawn here... I would say, "Remember, we're all anonymous, and none of us can ever really KNOW each other." We're here to learn about ourselves. So I could ask, "did anyone learn something about themselves on this thread?" If so, then there is some benefit aside from the hurt.

I could also just say to WD, please remember when debating, that you're pretty good at debates, word usage, etc - so please be just a tiny bit more careful with others if they ask.

Also to WD - one of your posts about the "t" word - was that George Carlin's comedy bit exactly? It did make me cringe reading it in writing, maybe it sounds different live? I would hope so, otherwise, I personally didn't find much humor in it (other than ideologic humor, if there is such a thing), and think I'm the first to laugh at pretty much anything there is to laugh at.

To "add" to the discussion, has anyone posted the definition of derogatory?

de路rog路a路to路ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-rg-t么r, -tr)
adj.
Disparaging; belittling: a derogatory comment.
Tending to detract or diminish.

But I can't say that I would ever 100% censor a list of "derogatory" words per se, but the context of ALL words is most definitely important to be careful/mindful/healthy of (most especially on the support threads). Here, it is somewhat debateable, but I would like to see respect & compassion within such discussions take precedence.

Love & deep breathing to everyone!

SC

PS: I don't consider what I wrote above to be "individual feedback" as I have recently posted about on the support threads... what I wrote here, is general feedback, and a reminder of the guideline "respect, support" which is the #1 guideline on the list, and for good reason.

Peace out.

April 14, 2006
1:34 pm
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salemgirl
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I have a brother who did something very, very foolish, and I let him have it good while driving him to his workshop that morning (he is schizophrenic). When I picked him that afternoon, I started up right were I left off.

He calmly looked at me and said "ok sis, you already fussed at me about this."

Sometimes the simplest minds have the deepest insights.

April 14, 2006
1:54 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I very much regret offending anyone. If I had known that my use of a certain word would ignite a firestorm of controversy that would distract us from the original conversation, I would have chosen different words. I do not mean to insult anyone or degrade anyone, or make anyone do anything that isn't right for them.

I am now fascinated by the topic of how words affect us though.

Yes, SC, I am at times too enamored with my own wit, and when I am angry and witty at the same time I know that I am a royal pain in the caudal region.

Yes, the naughty words posted in this thread were from Carlin's classic routine. And yes, he is a bit of an egghead as far as comedians go.

April 14, 2006
3:34 pm
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lollipop3
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KC,

I agree that direct communication is best...if in fact you were directing your post to me.

I on the other hand was not thinking of you at all when I posted what I did. As you said, you were not at anyone's throat, so no need to defend yourself.

I was speaking to several people "in general". I think I have shown myself to be very direct when need be so you don't need to worry about that either.

However, several people ARE at each other's throats here and I, personally don't see the necessity of it.

Peace~

Lolli

April 14, 2006
3:40 pm
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lollipop3
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KC,

"I agree that direct communication is best...if in fact you were directing your post to me."

The reason I wrote this is because I don't know if you were posting to me or not as your communication could have been directed at a few people.

Which seems to be exactly what your point was to others.

April 14, 2006
4:06 pm
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bel
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WD,
I also do not like to see some of those words in posts but you know what it happens. I just move on and forget about it unless the words were directed at me then I would really feel bad.

But! I had to say your post the first made me laugh so hard that I was crying..... To me that was a good example or examples.....

Anyhow thats all I have to say bout that!

Still laughing Bell

April 14, 2006
4:22 pm
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kc30
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Lolli!

I was referring to the successive posts from eve, cici and you. I agree with the content, but wasn't sure if it was directed towards me or not!

Geez, I guess I could have just asked, huh? That would have been the direct thing to do, and a little less confusing!

Talk about not walking the walk...asking others indirectly to be direct...do as I say, not as I do!!! LOL

Ain't personal growth grand! Still workin' it. 馃檪

kc

April 14, 2006
4:43 pm
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lollipop3
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Kc....LOL....no worries my friend. I think we're all guilty of it from time to time.

Having said that....overall I have agreed with you from the beginning and think we're pretty much on the same page.

Hope you have a great Easter!

Love,
Lolli

April 14, 2006
4:43 pm
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salemgirl
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This thread is like a car wreck on the interstate. You don't want to look, but you just can't help it.

April 14, 2006
4:48 pm
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Yea it is, salemgirl.

Last time I decided to venture into one and find out whose fault it was, or where the problem lied, it turned into a huge climax like BAM. This time I'm going to pass and focus on being peaceful myself. There's so much other stuff to worry about in my life so I should focus on that stuff and leave the interstate to the tough guys, while I take the 35 mph routes and chill there. Hmmmm.

April 14, 2006
5:00 pm
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bel
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Okay I guess Im kinda morbid and gross because I laughed at WD's post.

It was kind of way out there to say the least.

Going back to being invisable.

April 15, 2006
3:59 am
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kc,

Well, I'm glad we both agree that that "c" word is a "yucky yucky word"!
It's nice to agree on something.

{As for taking my profanity elsewhere....sorry Seeker, no disrespect intended, but...it's not "your" thread :)}

I was under the impression that while everybody is free to join in on a thread, the person who started it has some responsibility for it -- to read the posts and be knowledgeable on what it being said on the thread, to make sure people get heard and responded to, and to see that it doesn't stray too far off the intended topic. I've seen others act in this capacity on threads they start, too.

Please, kc, you know how I feel about derogatory terms for women. All I asked is that you and everybody else kindly refrain from using any more of these terms on this thread. (How's that -- I called it "this" thread. Is that better? :o) )

April 15, 2006
4:02 am
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Anonymous
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Everybody,

Well, I haven't had a chance to get on this site for about 24 hours. Now several had made comments, some of them quite piercing, at me that I haven't yet had the chance to reply to, and yet everybody's been saying it's time to chill and take a break and lighten up.

True. But still, I want to have my say, and then I'm done with this thread, unless anybody posts me back.

So please bear with me for just a few more posts, and then I'll take a break with the rest of you.

April 15, 2006
4:04 am
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cannibaltribe and gazelle,

Thank you for expressing your support for the point I was trying to make all along, that some women might have been so inundated by certain words that it inflicts pain on them to even hear them. That's what I was trying to say all along.

Seeker

April 15, 2006
4:17 am
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taj,

I'm sorry you think I am being controlling for even mentioning the possibility of banning certain words. Maybe you are particularly sensitive to this issue. I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes. I had no intention to.

This subject got quickly out of control. It ignited passions I did not anticipate. I don't follow every thread on this site. Who can?

For the third and last time I am going to say this: I was seeking to find out how others on this site felt on this subject. That is not controlling. That is democracy. That is being respectful.

To try to impose something on the group they don't support -- that IS controlling. I was not doing that.

Contrary to what you say, I have been listening to the group. I've already seen that the group is against this. I accept this. I said this already. I long ago stopped trying to convince anybody of a potential ban. Have you seen me press a case for a ban, after my initial post? I wish you would listen to me.

Seeker

April 15, 2006
4:58 am
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WD,

{no one can "own" a thread. }

I already answered this earlier tonight. Everybody is a host to the threads they create. Being a host entails duties. ENough said.

{What you propose would not make this site safer for women or for anyone.}

Your opinion. What, have you done a scientific study of this and know this for a fact?

{That attitude has also made people feel free to shame others. It has felt like another witch-hunt.}

All I did was try to see if the group would support this ban. They won't. Fine. I accept this. All right, already? I'm not instigating witch hunts.

{And any attitude that would forbid the posting of Carlin's famous essay about language is, to me, anti-humanistic.}

Or an attitude of wanting to avoid foul language.

{We have recently had conversations about what does it mean when a person feels overly protective of the sensitivities of others.}

I must have missed these. I can't follow every thread on this site.

By the way, it sounds like you're getting overly protective later on, when you speak of the many people on this site who get offended by the mention of God. Why not let them speak for themselves?

{I try to be compassionate about people's sensitivities, and I try to be careful of what and where I post. All of the material that you have found objectionable, for example, has been safely posted back here in the Liberation Brew category.}

When you're on the Lib Brews, you seem to feel free to post whatever you feel like it without regards to people's sensitivities. How is that much of an improvement?

{ rather than ban the "G" word entirely, we would just ask people to be circumspect about the use of that word, and to mainly keep that kind of objectionable language back here in the Liberation Brew threads. I think that was a nice compromise. }

I see. It's perfectly okay to ban the "God" word on the Support side because people get offended by it.

Why is it then not okay to ban the derogatory "c" word, when many people have said they are offended by it? It's a double standard. It's hypocritical.

Banning any word is censorship, according to many here. Banning the "God" word IS ALSO censorship. And censorship is supposed to be bad, very, very bad.

Why fight for the "right" of somebody to cuss like a sailor, if they want to, and deny the right of somebody to talk about God appropriately, if they want to? It's a double standard. It's hypocritical.

Seeker

April 15, 2006
5:10 am
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Everybody,

I'm through with this thread, I've had my say,

Now I'm off on my merry way,

Away from the battle, and from its fire,

A little bit grayer, and a little bit wiser.

Take care, y'all.

Seeker

April 15, 2006
8:03 am
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eve
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Sexually explicit and violent words (for example rape, and swearwords with a sexual background) are strongly discouraged on the support threads, because there are victims of sexual abuse here, who may be triggered into a backflash by such words.

April 15, 2006
8:49 am
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lollipop3
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Seek,

I still think it's nice that you are as sensitive as you are to women.

I'm sorry if that you felt attacked here. I know your intentions were good.

Sometimes we just need to pick our battles I guess.

Hope you have a great Easter.

Love,
Lolli

April 15, 2006
10:53 am
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Everybody,

I know I said I was done on this thread. However, last night I had a chance to reflect on this thread, and I must admit to a few uncomplimentary things.

For one, I never should have proposed that anybody be ejected from the site over this matter. I think that frightened some people, and, well, I was being controlling without realizing it at the time. I apologize for that.

For two, while I don't apologize for my passion on this subject, I can react out of proportion to the situation. I fired off several quick, emotional responses to some people and reacted more than I acted. This intensified the charged climate on this thread. For that, I apologize. I'll try to stay calmer next time. Anybody, please feel free to tell me if you think I'm reacting too much about anything.

For three, sometimes I get so caught up in trying to be logical about things that I miss the underlying emotions that drive the logic. In particular, I was looking for a logical explanation for why I was being controlling but couldn't find one, so assumed I wasn't. People who post me can't always logically explain why they feel as they do, nor should I expect that they should be able to.

For four, some of my intensity when it comes to the subject of treatment of women has to do with the fact I feel guilty for being a man. I've never before been able to admit this to anybody. Feel privileged that you're the first to know? :o)

I've had this guilt for many years, long before I was ever married, and it's not anything instilled in my by society. It comes from deep within me. I intend to open up a thread (not right now) on this subject on Support side and see if I can't come to grips with it. I'd welcome any of your comments on it.

Take care, everybody.

Seeker

April 15, 2006
11:04 am
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Lolli,

Bless your heart. You are always so kind to me. I really appreciate it and for your consistently expressing such kind thoughts to me.

As far as the attacks go, perhaps I deserved some of them. (Please see my previous post for more details.)

I wish you the very best Easter. I hope the Easter bunny brings you lots of joy.

Love,
Seeker

April 15, 2006
11:07 am
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eve,

{Sexually explicit and violent words (for example rape, and swearwords with a sexual background) are strongly discouraged on the support threads, because there are victims of sexual abuse here, who may be triggered into a backflash by such words.}

I'm very glad to hear this. I wasn't aware of any articulated policy on this.

Thanks,
Seeker

April 15, 2006
3:48 pm
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Hi Seeker,

Hey, I appreciate your gallant qualities, and I had a sense that you were working out something in yourself. Thanks for telling us, though--it makes it easier to understand you.

There has been a trend of guidelines to make the support threads the "more protected" area while back here in libs we feel freer to talk about more controversial material. Like God, Evolution, sexuality, and hopefully, now, language.

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