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You know, one good thing about the Islam holy-war debate here
January 22, 2007
9:35 pm
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bevdee
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G_

Good to hear from you. I guess it touched a nerve because I love her, and I think we all (myself included) judge the external. I'm sure you have been on the receiving end of that as well. Society. How do you say it?? Bleh.

Bevdee

January 22, 2007
10:07 pm
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hi wd and all~

regarding your last post, wd- this is how I see guest:

an attorney. "Just the facts, maa'm." type of communication.

Nothing personal.

bevdee~ how do we not judge the external? What else do we have? Maybe we shouldn't be judging at all.

free

January 22, 2007
10:31 pm
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bevdee
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Free

I agree - in a perfect world none of us would judge. I do judge wife-beaters, don't you? And I do not judge them kindly.

What I was saying to G_ is that I don't believe we can make the judgement that one person's life is "worth" more than another's.

January 22, 2007
10:37 pm
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Hi guest,

And I explained to you that I have do not have need, desire or obligation to explain or debate anything with you.

It is unwise to try to bargain with terrorists, reason with the mad, or have a conversation with a troll.

Are there any public school teachers here? Have you noticed that it is impossible for a student to do their homework while they are setting the cafeteria on fire? You can do one or the other but not both at the same time.

Guest: I am NOT going to spoon feed you ten thousand pages of text and diagrams and hundreds and hundreds of hours of lessons with you sitting there spitting and farting and hooting and hollering and throwing fruit every step of the way.

Why would I even want to try to answer any question from a person who takes such pleasure in being mean spirited, rude and destructive?

A person is either respectful or they are not only not "worth" talking to--they are dangerous to talk to and it is bad for one's mental health to talk to them.

So before I can even get to any kind of real conversation with you about *other* topic, I have to see if you are a sane enough and decent enough human being to have a conversation about how your tone and language and attitude affects other people.

I must say guest, you have really turned my head around about Muslims--I have finally, finally met a person who somewhat resembles the popularized western stereotype of of a Muslim--someone who is absolutely smug in their superiority and is determined that the WORLD will convert to their way of thinking or else endure violence.

That basically what you do here--act like a bully and ridicule people.

January 22, 2007
10:38 pm
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Is that how you want to be? Isn't there somebody softer and nicer underneath, maybe someone who has some fear and pain that need comforting and support?

January 22, 2007
10:47 pm
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Hi bevdee~ do I judge wife-beaters? heck yeah. And others, too. I'm puzzled by your comment on how we judge the external. what do you mean by this?

hi wd~of course guest has a soft side. But that's not what he's here for. Like an attorney in court. Down to earth, no nonsense, facts only said the way they are-

my take anyway.

free

January 22, 2007
10:56 pm
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bevdee
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I meant that most people judge by certain standards - how much money someone makes, where they live, autos they drive, looks, religions, church attendance, ethnicity, whether they do drugs, drink, stay too long in abusive relationships ...... Alot of people think like that. Remember, I live in the South. I find myself doing it still.

January 23, 2007
12:15 am
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well that makes sense bevdee. I was thinking more along the lines that you meant we judge others based on their behavior. I guess that's really but an addition to the list you provided.

But what else do we have? Realistically, we can't get to really know everybody we meet. That's why I mentioned that maybe we shouldn't be judging at all.

free

January 23, 2007
12:28 am
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WD, I dont need any comfort from anyone. I have an electric blanket. Really though goshhhh, I love my electric blanket. Goshhh its like n orgasm getting into a warm bed, infact, I'll trade two orgasms for one warm bed.

Ahhhh. The e-blanket. How could I live without it? Goshh. I get giddy thinking that my bed is warm and waiting for me. Atleast someone wants me! lol. boohoo.

Hmmm. Ok, so you didnt prove to me that Mohammed wasnt a violent man. Thats because you cant. I might keep you asking though to get an answer. Surely you could respond with "I dont know", if you dont know. I wonder why you cant give a straight answer to that question. Amazing. Do you really have no answer to it? Whats up? Why cant you answer the question? 3 choices: No, Yes, I dont know.

Which one is it?

January 23, 2007
1:38 am
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Hi guest,

Well that felt good. Helped me realize some of my own work more clearly too.

Hmm, I wonder if I can negotiate an honorable peace with you.

tell ya what. I'm gonna just break down and bargain with terrorists. Not so much bargain as simply capitulate. As an act of good faith, and as a test of my own strength of character, I am going to unilaterally capitulate to your incredibly unreasonable, irrational, destructive demands.

But after that, further concessions will cost you. I want to be clear that I want some things from you guest.

For now, it's time to capitulate.

January 23, 2007
1:46 am
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Hi guest,

You have asked me before if I could "prove" that Mohammed, peace be upon him, was "not a violent man."

I believe I've answered this particular question many times in many ways, but let me answer that question once and for all, and I really would appreciate it if *this time* you would remember that I have answered your question many and not ask it of me again.

The answer is: "No I cannot 'prove that Mohammed was not a "violent man.'"

In fact, I can not prove or disprove any little thing about Mohamed, including whether or not he actually ever existed.

Can we let the record show that that question has been answered?

January 23, 2007
7:50 am
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Free

"That's why I mentioned that maybe we shouldn't be judging at all. "

Yeah, that's sorta what I said to G_.

January 23, 2007
11:05 pm
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WD, why did you say so before. You could have saved yourself 673 words (which you could have used in a literary competition.)

Yes you'd said that before but I wanted to approach the question in a new way. So you agree that you cant also prove that Mohammed was a peaceful man. Thats all I wanted to know. I on the other hand can prove that he was a violent man and we saw many of those hadiths already.

Can you prove that your great great great grandfather existed? I guess you cant, eh? Its the same thing.

January 24, 2007
3:07 am
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Actually, guest, I can prove beyond all shadow of all doubt that my (or your) great-to how ever many powers you like existed. It's a long established and long proven law of nature that anyone who disagrees with is by definition a fool or maniac.

Easy to prove. Easy peasy.

Mohammed, however--might be a fictional character.

As far as I am concerned, the only possible way that you can *prove* that Mohammed ever existed is for you to give us a real time video link to a guy who says "Hi am Mohammed, and I promise you, I really exist! Look, here is the real time recording of my rectal probe!" etc.

Along with 50,000 cameras looking at him, recording his words, etc,etc, etc.

I can not *prove* to you that there ever lived a person named George W. Bush Jr., much less that he ever became president of the united staes of america.

Actually, strictly speaking, I can not *prove* to you that there ever existed a nation known as the United States of America.

I don't think you can *prove* any of those things either.

January 24, 2007
12:34 pm
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If you read about Mohammed on the internet, he seems to have been real, and a very peaceful person....so what happened? His bio is one of peace, sounds like a nice guy. Has the Islamic religion turned to its own method of truth and interpretation?

I guess George Bush's words stick in my heart, what he said last night..." Anyone who promises Paradise to those who kill innocent victims" is essesntially not right in the head. To me, this is violence, and rationalizing violence.

But an absolutely great movie is "The Seventh Heaven" (crud, can't remember the title!!) but the star is the guy who played in Lord of the Rings with the long blonde hair (not Gandalf)..just can't remember. But the story is about when the Crusades took over Jerusalem and the Muslims fought for it as well and won. It's a great movie.

January 25, 2007
4:27 pm
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WD, here's my question: At what point down the generation line does a person's existence become doubtable? See my question what I'm trying to say?

>> Actually, strictly speaking, I can not *prove* to you that there ever existed a nation known as the United States of America. << Ok so thats it eh? Tell me then: How do you then differentiate between ME and a fictional character? Is everyone fictional?

January 25, 2007
4:30 pm
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OMW, Mohammed a nice and peaceful person? Are you SURE? He was not:

---

Ishaq 327

Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’

---

January 25, 2007
4:34 pm
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OMW, I'm sorry, you were right, Mohammed WAS a peaceful man. My bad:

---

Quran 007:004

How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.

---

Ah, nothing more peaceful than creeping up on people and killing them. I know, we arent told everything about Islam. You said you read about Mo on the internet - what did you search on the net to get what you found? I'd like to know.

February 5, 2007
3:48 pm
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Guest...that is why I agree with my PREZ when I said:

I guess George Bush's words stick in my heart, what he said last night..." Anyone who promises Paradise to those who kill innocent victims" is essesntially not right in the head. To me, this is violence, and rationalizing violence.

I read Mohammed's bio...guess he was ok at first but then turned bad. Funny, JC never did that. He has stayed the same all these years!

February 5, 2007
5:13 pm
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hi OMW, thats good that Bush said that. Any more stuff that he said?

Yes JC at least wasnt a physically violent man. Mentally violent though yes, becuase he said everyone else like me will burn in Hellfire - I see that as idealogical violence, thats my view.

February 5, 2007
5:13 pm
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Anyone who promises 'freedom from terrorism' by sending thousands of troops to demolish a foreign country isn't right in the head either. Especially when he claims to be a Christian yet violates the most fundamental tenets of Christ's message of 'love the Lord, thy God, with thy whole heart, soul, mind and strength and thy neigour as thyself' and the admonition to 'turn the other cheek not seven times but seven times seventy'.

The one constant lesson of history is that violence breeds more violence and that war never achieves anything other than to create another war somewhere down the track.

Berthold Brecht the playright, on hearing of the death of Hitler, rather graphically put the above. He said:

"You have killed the dog, but the bitch is on heat again."

Now anyone who deliberately chooses to go to war in spite of the lessons of history and in spite of his self proclaimed religious affiliations is either not right in the head or a very immoral person.

Here you have your Mr. Bush who seems to believe that two wrongs make a right and that Christ would have sanctioned the mass killings in Iraq for Bush's neo-conservative, capitalistic motives.

'Dubya' is a good name for 'he who is not right in the head'.

February 5, 2007
5:53 pm
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It occured to me that in order to feel any justification for the murder of a group of people, it is easier to consider them evil. If we think of them as humans, why then the slaughter of those humans would be immoral. Wrong. How convenient that these people are of a different religion than those who have invaded their homeland.

Wars make money for those who make war.

February 5, 2007
8:51 pm
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so, guest.

As long as JC says you will burn in hellfire, your plan is to be stubborn and prove him wrong?

He says actually that it is not his wish that any should burn in hellfire.

Tez,
There will be wars until we blow ourselves up. There have always been wars. People just don't get along. But the US protect Istael and always will, as will Great Britain. Iran is on the other side of Iraq...now that the US is in Iraq that might keep Iran quiet for awhile, and from invading Israel. And the US needs the oil, although they are going to seek it inside from now on as well...and I have no clue if the Bush family in in cohoots with Osama and the oil business, people do wonder that. And if my sons were over there, or sent, they would go proudly in a heartbeat, but I would hate GW for that...then the war would become stupid to me. But I do think it is time for them to come home, train them to defend their own country, and leave. I am another American who has mixed feelings about it. Think I'll move to Ireland, Scotland or Australia. You guys are lucky.

But the US has always intervened. I just hope N. Korea doesn't get any ideas.

February 6, 2007
9:32 pm
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On my way.

"But the US has always intervened."

Is this because of religious self-righteousness and self-delusion? Israel remaining in Jewish hands and under Jewish control, is so important to the second coming of JC into Jerusalem, is it not? Why should non-christians pay the price for Bush's and US christians' religious beliefs.

I watched a documentary about the life of Madalyn Murry O'Hair and her struggle against Christian oppression. She sought freedom from the discrimination and bigotry towards atheists by so-called Christians. She had multiple death threats daily from Christians because she won her battle for Church and state separation at least in the state run schools. She and her two loyal children were kidnapped and finally 'martyred' by three psychopaths.

Why should Christians get away with imposing their will on non-christian citizens and atheists by trying to bring about the downfall of church/state separation in the US and in Australia by stealth?

Christians seem to want to bring about the very thing that they seem to deplore in Islamic countries - Church/state integration. Such hypocrisy!!

February 7, 2007
12:50 pm
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Tez,
She wasn't oppressed, she just wanted things her way to make her life more comfortable. In her mind, God made her uncomfortable. So, she did everything in her power to remove God from our schools. But funny how God still loves her...if I saw her out on the streets it would take everything I had to not throw something at her.

She was angry to the point that she was illogical...her passion to try to destroy God fueled her anger.

I stated on another thread, that perhaps anger should be directed at Christians for not giving an honest and pure account of who God is, directed at professing Christians, and not at God.

I try to understand my American President. Church and state is not the issue. He really beleives he is doing the right thing, even though I am not sure I agree with him on all counts, but I am glad he is in office and not Hillary CLinton or Al Gore. I think it boils down to instituting MORALs within society, from the best source one knows how..for Bush it is the Bible. IF a society loses its moral aptitude, it falls. AS IS TRUE SINCE Madlyn O'Hair WAS SUCCESSFUL AT REMOVING PRAYER FROM OUR SCHOOLS. It is a proven statistic, that there has been a higher crime rate within schools, and among students, since God was removed from schools. JC DIED for that woman. And all she has done is crucify him over and over and over. It pisses me off, but he still loves her. It was HER choice to do what she did, and end up wherever she ended up...not God's. We aren't puppets.

Think about it, if you had to MAKE someone love you, then it wouldn't be love. But if they have the right to CHOOSE to love you, then it is real love. This is how God works too.

"I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Dear God, "Why didn't you save the little girl killed in her classroom? "
Sincerely, Concerned Student
.. AND
THE REPLY "Dear Concerned Student, I am not allowed in schools."
Sincerely, God.

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.

Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says.

Funny how someone can say "I believe in God" but still follow Satan who, by the way, also "believes" in God.

Funny how we are quick to judge but not to be judged.

Are you laughing?"
Anne Graham

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