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You know, one good thing about the Islam holy-war debate here
January 16, 2007
7:50 pm
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Guest_guest.

You wrote:

"Here, read and challenge your own beliefs if you can handle it:

http://www.sofiatopia.org/equi.....buddha.htm"

I read the web page in its entirity and found it very good, indeed. So good that I downloaded it for future reference. Thank you for that.

Sadly for you and your apparent desire to denigrate all beliefs systems but your own, and you do have one, it changes none of my Buddhist oriented beliefs one iota.

There is much I could write here about that article but I won't.

And you said:

"And I had asked you before: Do you disagree with Buddhism in any way?"

Firstly I categorically deny that I have ever been aware of that request from you. You may have asked me that question in the past but I obviously did not see it. Maybe it was the way you asked it or the context in which it was asked.

Secondly, yes, yes and yes many times over. I am very critical of some Buddhist teachings just as I am of any one elses. The Buddha advised just this critical approach himself and I took that as confirmation of my already established approach to his teachings.

The venerable Thich Nhat Hanh a Vietnamese Buddhist Master of high repute, in one of his books, lists whole passages from the sutras in the context of his book that he claims are not coming from the Buddha but from someone else.

Not all written down in the Buddha's name, as being his teachings, is authentic. Much is not. Unlike all other scriptures the Buddhist Sutras do not claim divine inspiration or the divine guatantee of veracity. Nor do they claim one size fits all. The monks and nuns strongly advise finding a sutra from amongst many that speaks to your own personal mental level. They even advise changing sects to find which suits the individual best.

If you think that I blindly take on board any or all of the Buddhist sutras unquestioningly then I can easily see why we do not find much common ground.

You seem to kid yourself that you are a 'free thinker'; but I assure you, boyo, that you are far from it!

Then you asked:

"If not, why are you not a Buddhist? How would you answer that question?"

I think I already have indirectly answered it above. However, for your edification I will expand further.

I do not like having to conform to ritualistic practices of any kind. The Buddha himself decried ritual for ritual's sake. Some Buddhist sects have brought cultural practices into Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism looks very different to Chinese Chan Buddhism for this reason. I have no desire to either offend by refusing nor compromising my principles to please others. I did plenty of both in the Catholic Church, in The Bramha Kumari Raja Yoga sect of the Hindu religion and I do not intend to do so again. So I remain outside of ALL religions, joining NONE. This way I am free from all social pressures to believe anything. I can choose to believe the Buddha said this but not that. Neither Christians nor Muslims are free to pick from their scriptures what in them is the word of God and what is not. Right? Get my point?

I sincerely hope that I have answered your question to your satisfaction.

I never avoid sensible questions that are genuinely asked. But I reserve my absolute right to choose to ignore stupid, illinformed or uninformed questions in preference to giving offense by pointing out obvious absurdities in them.

The questions I have answered here are in the former category. You agree?

January 16, 2007
8:08 pm
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Worried_Dad
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There is no need to respond to me guest.

I am just pointing out a wee liitle flaw in your self-esteem thingy.

As to why I havent answered your question--I have given you two reasons.

1) You cant even quote me correctly you disrespectful cad.

2) I am simply not going to answer any questions about spirituality from disrespectful people.

3) The answer to your question has already been posted here--go fetch.

January 16, 2007
8:10 pm
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guest_guest
16-Jan-07

"I thought about it yes, that "the belief that all beliefs are false" - is that a belief too? I dont think so."

Of course it is a belief.

The strange thing here is that science itself is built on a belief! It is called the Philosophy of Science. Right, WD?

Yet G_g, you unquestingly seem to accept scientific beliefs as automatically being facts beyond dispute, not beliefs. Scientific 'facts' have often been 'proven' wrong in the past and this will also happen again in the future, I assure you.

Every scientific 'fact' is based upon underlying assumptions that cannot be proven if you go far enough back into the underpinnings.

In fact you cannot prove that anything exists at all outside of your own mind without first taking a pile of assumptions as being givens. Think about that!

January 16, 2007
8:37 pm
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Well we percive largely by a process of projection anyway.

Without faith, a person would be a paranoid wreck.

Like I have faith that the red light will actually keep people from slamming into me at intersections.

January 17, 2007
7:06 pm
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Worried_Dad.

I like your red light example of faith.

The light switch is another. We have to have faith that the light will come on when we activate the switch otherwise we wouldn't bother - we'd light a candle or a fire.

We develop 'solid faith' through trial and error, methinks - but not always.

Faith in the light switch is held in common by all technologically advanced societies. Cultural differences don't seem to differentiate us in this regard.

But when it comes to the ultimate questions of who we really are, where we came from before we were born and where we are going after death and why, then cultural ties make a huge difference. Religions are invented to answer these questions for those who abnegate responsibility for thinking for themselves. Then wars are fought to prove whose right.

If you don't believe as I do, I'll abuse you, denigrate you, attack you physically, mentally and spiritually and then if I don't succeed in convincing you that you are wrong and I am right then I'll kill you. Your death will remove the threat to my own beliefs.

How crazy is that!!!

The title to this thread is:

"You know, one good thing about the Islam holy-war debate here"

The strange thing about this title is that the other protagonist in this war has not been named in it. Is this somehow implying that Islam is the only protagonist? Isn't there another 'cause', another religious belief involved? Isn't Bush a self-confessed, born again Christian?

Bush's time worn and hackneyed phrase that 'he is fighting for freedom and democracy' is becoming nauseous. America isn't even a true democracy. Ask Noam Chomsky - an expert in the field of media hype and how it subverts our freedom. Perhaps Bush should start at home and democratize the U.S.A first.

If you haven't already, for interesting reading see:

http://www.chomsky.info/

January 17, 2007
9:03 pm
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Guest_guest.

After challenging me to respond to your post of 16-1-2007, you seem to have failed to respond to my 16-1-2007 response to your post.

Could it possibly be that you can neither fathom nor handle my unexpected answer? Doesn't it fit in anywhere into your fixated mental paradigm?

Perhaps it is not my answer that is lacking but your paradigm of thinking.

January 18, 2007
7:27 pm
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Maybe my paradigm is really busy right now. I really am. I'm sleep deprived. I have to fix my sleep. I cant go on like a zombie. gosh. Maybe I'll respond but right now I'm dead and over exhausted.

I dont know what happened to my sleep. I used to have it nice.

January 18, 2007
8:03 pm
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bevdee
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Good to see you again, sleep good, G_.

January 19, 2007
4:12 pm
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WD,
But red lights are fallible, anyone can run a red light...esp where I live. So do you think there is such thing as "falligble faith", or is faith supposed to be infallible? Just a thought.

January 20, 2007
8:58 am
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Tez, you're less entitled to your country than Muslims. Check it out:

Muslims 'entitled to Australia'

Sydney - Muslims have a greater claim to Australia than non-Muslims because they arrived as fee-paying immigrants rather than "shackled convicts", the leader of the 350 000-strong community said on Thursday.

"We came as free people, we bought our own tickets, we are entitled to Australia more than they are," al-Hilaly said in remarks broadcast on Australia's Seven Network television station.

http://www.news24.com/News24/W.....rld/News/0,,2-10-1462_2053741,00.html

January 20, 2007
9:08 am
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tez

"They even advise changing sects to find which suits the individual best."

Is there a Sutra for each person in the past and in the future who will be born? There isnt. Why follow a Sutra? Why not your own brain? Why trust a Sutra more than your own judgement?

"I can choose to believe the Buddha said this but not that"

Obviously, I'm talking about: Do you believe in everything that the Buddha really said? I'm not talking about other people's inventions. I'm talking about what he really said. Out of that, you're saying you dont have any disagreement with that he said? I'm talking about ofcourse, genuine unadulterated Buddhism - you dont disagree with any of that?

If you agree with all the core teachings, the stuff that only Buddha said, doesnt it mean that you're a Buddhist? Didnt Buddha want everyone to be a Buddhist?

Did Buddha say "My path is the best to follow for everyone", because Nirvana the ultimate goal is reached only using Buddha's methods.

So this is like Mohammed saying "Follow Islam and you'll go to Heaven"

you wrote:

"Scientific 'facts' have often been 'proven' wrong in the past and this will also happen again in the future, I assure you."

Beyond doubt, evolution is a fact. Also the fact is that all these Holy books are false. Thats all what I believe in. Either the books are false or they're true.

January 20, 2007
9:09 am
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and you're obviously not a believer of 'K.I.S.S'. It really is the best thing in order to have a clear mind.

January 21, 2007
7:24 pm
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guest_guest
20-Jan-07

"Tez, you're less entitled to your country than Muslims. Check it out:

Muslims 'entitled to Australia'

Sydney - Muslims have a greater claim to Australia than non-Muslims because they arrived as fee-paying immigrants rather than "shackled convicts", the leader of the 350 000-strong community said on Thursday."

What a load of old rubbish you sprout! I am at a loss to see why you even posted this crap to me.

I have traced back my ancestry very precisely on both my mother's and father's side. All were unassisted migrants - which means they paid their own way. None were convicts without exception. In fact the convict era had passed when they arrived in Australia as "fee-paying immigrants" to use your words.

You presume you know things about which you know zilch. This seems to me to have always been your problem. You seek out anything that you think will score you an easy victory.

Deal with your childhood issues and stop trying to stir every one up. With me it just won't work.

Now back to the issue of whether I am "entitled to the country" (your words) into which I was born. What makes you think you are entitled to your country any more that I am to mine?

The native American Indians were dispossessed of their lands just as brutally and unjustly as were the Australian Aborigines by foreign conquerers. If we, present day inhabitants, are guilty of the sins of our country's founding fathers then you are just as guilty as I am. But that is nonsense!! And you know it.

Do you think that if I went back to Ireland and demanded the dispossessed lands of my forefathers back, the Irish courts would oblige me just because I presented them with your defective logic?

Though Australia is doing something to compensate Aborigines(not enough in my opinion), they are also taking into account the present day rights of land holding Australians whatever their ethnic origins in doing so.

January 21, 2007
8:48 pm
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Lol. Ofcourse I was surprising you. Do you really think that I believe that you deserve Australia less than immigrant Muslims? lol. Gosh. I triggered you bad, hehe.

I was only telling you - this is the hate that Muslims in your own country are believing in and teaching. This is the hate the Muslim LEADERS are spreading against native Australians like you and THAT what was I wanted to tell you. It was a quote.

As to who is entitled to what, should be solely based on ability. For example a drug addict wasting his life away on the street deserves the country less than an immigrant doctor who saves life.

Where is your clarity of mind? Why were you triggered so suddenly? Whats the use of all your Buddhist and Zen teachings and what not, when someone like me on the internet can trigger your anger so easily? What matters in life? You're missing some important realizations.

Thats where you step back and say "Ok, whats going on here".

January 21, 2007
9:01 pm
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G_

"As to who is entitled to what, should be solely based on ability. For example a drug addict wasting his life away on the street deserves the country less than an immigrant doctor who saves life."

Ok you got me with this one. As for someone wasting his life? That is a judgement call, and I suppose judgements stem from perspective. I am part Native American, so what ABOUT----

the addict judged to be "wasting his life", who might be the sad legacy of a dispossessed, abused people. Who would be the more deserving? The original American addict or an immigrant?

January 21, 2007
9:13 pm
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Well, I could give a better example: all the people in jails serving time for crime deserve less than immigrants who want to be productive and can contribute better.

I'm just saying if there's any qualifying factor for anything (not just citizenship), it should be a meaningful factor.

Whats the use of being a legacy if the person is an addict? We should value a person for what is under control. So that excludes: religion of birth, race, citizenship, gender etc.

January 21, 2007
9:20 pm
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Thats what I believe in. Anything that you just "inherited" (ethniticity included) should be of no significance when judging your value. Thats what I think. If we judge values solely based on what is under their control, we're sure to have an efficient good society that maximizes the value of a person and puts it to good use.

January 21, 2007
9:37 pm
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Thats just like saying, if we judge a job applicant based solely on their ability and what they can do for the company - you can be sure that that company will choose great people who will take the company to its greatest hieghts.

If you pay any attention in any way to factors which are not under their control (all the stuff above), that wont be the best thing to do.

January 21, 2007
9:46 pm
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G_

"Whats the use of being a legacy if the person is an addict?" I mean the legacy is the addiction.

"I'm just saying if there's any qualifying factor for anything (not just citizenship), it should be a meaningful factor."

I understand your perspective, and I am glad you understand mine.

I am also a firm believer in ability- not affirmative action or whatever the hell they call it these days. I don't beleive a person should be hired acoording to a minority status.

I've mentioned in several of my posts that I have a sister who is an alcoholic and addicted to crack.

Bevdee

January 22, 2007
2:23 am
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Hi guest,

"Where is your clarity of mind? Why were you triggered so suddenly? Whats the use of all your Buddhist and Zen teachings and what not, when someone like me on the internet can trigger your anger so easily? What matters in life? You're missing some important realizations."

A person can have clarity of mind and still be offended or pissed off.

And it has not been exactly "easy" for you to trigger Tez to anger--not that he seemed very pissed off. But you have had a kind of campaign going with Tez for quite a while, and you have been kind of unfair and disrespectful about it.

The one-sidedness I see is that people try and seem to succeed in following your lines of reasoning and following your logic, your arguments. But you don't seem to want to follow other people's reasoning or even be able to give them good paraphrases of conclusions. That feels disrespectful.

And your ridiculing tone with people is not very nice.

For some reason, your quest for self-esteem allows or maybe even requires you to tear other people apart.

Guest, don't you care about other people's feeling?

January 22, 2007
11:59 am
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Interjecting a thought here, alittle bit off the subject, but I have been wondering.....The movie 'Groundhog Day' has been compared to Buddhism, can anyone explain to me how? It was the movie about the guy who woke up everyday in the same town.

January 22, 2007
6:00 pm
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guest_guest
21-Jan-07

You said:

"Where is your clarity of mind? Why were you triggered so suddenly?"

You cannot see the assumptions that you have made here?

No - I guess you can't. You associate blunt language with emotional arousal. I use blunt language with you because all else seems to go over your head.

January 22, 2007
6:16 pm
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on my way

On 22-Jan-07 you asked:

"... I have been wondering.....The movie 'Groundhog Day' has been compared to Buddhism, can anyone explain to me how?"

You have me thinking now OMW.

I saw the movie and know a smidgen about Buddhist; but obviously not as much as the guy/gal who made that comparison.

I'll churn that question over in meditation and see what comes out of it.

I get back on that one.

As the saying goes, when the pupil is ready the master arrives. I must be ready for that question.

Thank you.

January 22, 2007
6:21 pm
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You are TOO MUCH my friend... 🙂

I will be most interested to learn what answers you come up with.

Also...when you meditate, please explain what you do? how?

January 22, 2007
9:20 pm
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hi Bevdee

Oops, I didnt know your sister was an addict, sorry about that. My bro is hooked on cigerettes as well, another kind of addiction. Well now that you say it, the personal touch makes it different. I agree, the affirmative action is actually racism - racial discrimination; the victim is the other race. The affirmative action looks like an overshoot of the MLK stuff or the racial equality drive. It will settle after some time and everyone will then be equal.

Worried Dad______, forget that 'disrespect' and respect stuff. I had asked you a question about Islam before:

- Was Mohammed a violent man?

We already know that terrorists idolize Mohammed, so the answer to this question will tell you what the real source of Islamic terrorism is.

So, was he or not? Its not immaterial, rememeber. Terrorists idolize Mohammed. If he had been a nice man, we wouldnt have Islamic terrorists today, not in the huge number we have today at least.

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