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Why not just leave?
February 13, 2003
4:43 pm
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Sometimes, when I meet a new person (male or female) socially, they end the conversation and leave, obviously uninterested in exploring the possibility of friendship further. That's perfectly fine with me. Not everybody will become our friend. We talk some and see if there might be potential. When we talk some more and the person expresses views we don't share and we see we're too different, we realize there isn't potential for friendship and we leave. That's fine.

My question is about something else. It extremely often happens to me that, before they leave, they'll tell me the reason why they're leaving in a very critical way (things like "the way you are, you'll never find a husband", "you're awfully heavy", "you don't amuse me enough, I'm going to talk to others", "you're weird,I don't have time for this", "Is THAT your hobby?Haha, that's so stupid").

Why do they feel the need to be this hurtful before they leave? If they're leaving anyway and, even if they've chosen to tell me why they're leaving, why do they have to do it in this critical way? Why take the effort to make these remarks when they can just leave or make a comment that's less hurtful? Why do they feel the need to hurt me when I'm not what they were looking for?

February 13, 2003
6:37 pm
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Mafi.

It is my belief that people only lash out and hurt others when they perceive that they are being 'threatened' in some way.

Often times, in my experience, people can perceive me to be 'threatening' to them where no threat was intended by me.

You sound like a intelligent person. You may be doing what I inadvertently do all the time. I unconsciously assume that others have been where I've been, done what I've done and thought the thoughts that I have thought.

In conversations, when all goes quiet and no one responds, I know that I have either dropped a clanger of have exceeded the range of their comprehension of what I say.

In the latter case, I suspect that I have inadvertently insulted them by implication. I suspect that these people then judge themselves as being of lesser intelligence for not comprehending what I said.

Then, unconsciously I suspect, they transfer the identity of the 'accuser' from themselves into me.

I think that they then react to the fanciful implication that I have accused them of being somehow of inferior intelligence and react in kind.

Or perhaps it is just that my unconscious game, unbeknown to the conscious 'me', is really intellectual 'oneupmanship' and others cotton onto this game and react! Since I fool around a lot and act the idiot, I suspect that this disarms them and gets me out of harm's way!!!

Perhaps in your case they are inadvertently and unconsciously threatened by you in some other way. What do you think?

February 14, 2003
2:44 am
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Tez,

I want to thank you so much for your words ! What you describe is exactly what happens to me. It does me so much good to know I'm not alone, because I don't know anybody else with this problem nor anyone who understands it.

How can I avoid being so hurt? Also, life is not fun to me if I have to pretend that I'm different from who I am and refrain from expressing my thoughts, opinions, feelings about something when others are doing so, so that others won't feel bad with themselves...And being hurt so often for expressing myself is awful too...

I don't want to be the one who, when asked something, just shuts up and smiles, in fear that if I say something, it will make the other feel less intelligent or something like that and I'll be lashed out at.

I feel very bad about this problem.

February 14, 2003
10:58 am
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I used to think that this was an immature reaction, because it seems to happen less as I grow older. But I guess I also compromised how I behave, got more shy or silent or whithdrawn, perhaps, because I don't like to be tsk-tsked at.

I guess the trick is to be authentic to yourself, while nevertheless being careful (or mindful) for other's feelings. Of course you can't get 100%, what I try to do is to find out if the other person is really listening to me, or to the tapes playing in their head. Often I can tell, sometimes I'm taken completely by surprise.

February 14, 2003
11:11 am
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Thank you, Eve.

"what I try to do is to find out if the other person is really listening to me, or to the tapes playing in their head."

This is SO true ! Most people are listening to their own inner turmoil and not to us...I used to be like that too. I would react to how their words resonated with my inner turmoil and not to THEM.

February 14, 2003
3:51 pm
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Mafi.

You said,"... How can I avoid being so hurt?"

Well... I guess I don't know the answer for you. I can only tell you what has helped me.

In this context of which you speak, I have come to the deep realization of what, for me, 'being hurt' really means. It is an emotional arousal based upon fear of my having sustained some damage.

The two key concepts here are my 'self' and the idea of 'damage'. Both of these concepts are ever changing products of my mind - mental formations. What I consider to be 'damage' one day is often amusing to me on another day. What is 'self' today quickly changes tomorrow as some complex function of mood and mind. Thus what helps me quieten ruffled emotions, is realizing:

(1) the transience of all things and the permanence of none.

(2) that there really is no permanent 'self' to sustain any 'damage' at all.

(3) all is a boundless process within which there is a small interdependent sub-process that I 'perceive' as 'me'.

(4) other 'processes' are 'hurt' by my process which is 'hurt' in return as a direct consequence of the other's response .

It is as though one 'wave' in the 'ocean' is offended by another 'wave' crashing into it, therein imagining some 'damage' being done to its magnificent shape and purpose. All is just the 'ocean' manifest in many forms.

February 14, 2003
3:55 pm
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Hi Eve. How are ya?

February 14, 2003
4:42 pm
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I see what you mean. That's a very enlightened stage. I'm much more ego and earth-bound. 🙂

February 15, 2003
2:02 am
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Tez,
thanks for asking.
I'm trying to shut up the tapes in my head and open my ears and eyes. Dunno why, I'm in a bit of a rut. But weekend is here, and it may have been due to job stress. I guess I'm ok.

February 16, 2003
4:24 pm
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Mafi.

So am I. I only have fleeting glimpses of the 'Ocean'. Most of the time I am also an ego bound 'wave' who thinks that his 'shape' is who he is. 🙂

February 16, 2003
4:30 pm
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Eve.

At times stress can be a subtle thing. That habitual struggle to get or not to lose that indefinable something that will make us feel permanently OK about ourselves and our life can get very tiring - can't it.

February 23, 2003
7:51 am
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hello. master tez. it is terribly goodto see that you still post here. a quiet place, where one can feel Ocean and understand, for a moment, that the wave and the Ocean are the same. Thanks.

February 23, 2003
4:39 pm
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Nikka.

Thanks in return - and of course I would agree that "the wave and the Ocean are the same".

If only I could remember that for 24 hours a day each day.

February 23, 2003
9:02 pm
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yes, that is always my problem as well, remembering. hmmm. cellular recall is my most difficult task.

February 24, 2003
5:33 pm
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Nikka.

Yep! I'm sure Joan Wulfsohn would also agree with you there.

February 24, 2003
10:19 pm
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tez.

someone i am not aware of, this Joan Wulfsohn. do you think i should be? does she teach cellular recall? *smile*

February 25, 2003
5:12 pm
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Nikka.

She gave birth to the therapeutic technique called Cellular Recall Therapy just as Freud gave birth to PsychoAnalysis.

Whether you should know about her or not depends largely upon the credence you place upon her theories.

February 27, 2003
8:20 pm
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tez.

what credence do i place on her theories. her's i know not, not having heard or read her. cellular recall, however, is a different matter. that i do give credence to, having had experiences that seem to be part and parcel of a deeper knowledge than i bring to this screen, for instance.

perhaps i should look her up. although one might well wonder whether one should read the dhammapada if one knows and practices the eight-fold path and understnds intuitively the four noble truths.

perhaps i will look her up. but only after finishing the a. almass i am reading and the ken wilbur i just purchased.

February 28, 2003
5:41 pm
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Nikka.

Your statement: "...one might well wonder whether one should read the dhammapada if one knows and practices the eight-fold path and understands intuitively the four noble truths".

From my perspective and from my rather superficial understandings of Joan Wulfsohn's "cellular recall therapy", I would think that studying the Buddhist sutras and performing the practices to be more beneficial.

However, I did recognise certain aspects of Buddhist practices within the therapeutic techniques espoused by J.W. Here I especially refer to her focus on one's own breath and on synchronizing breathing consciously with that of the patient in particular. The resultant 'meditation' experiences as described by J.W. have more than a hint of the Buddhist insight meditation (Vipassana) about them.

All the best with Ken Wilbur readings, etc.

February 28, 2003
9:48 pm
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namaste, tez.

thank you, but i can be so very unclear, without trying. a celluar recall? *smile*

what i should have said was: suppose one simply practices the eight-fold path without ever studying the sutras. or one simply intuits the four noble truths. hmmm much in the way that siddartha divined the truths under the bo-tree. would one then need to read the dhammpada? or the diamond sutra? or would one's independently gained practice be enough?

have a good weekend, master tez.

March 1, 2003
6:16 pm
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Nikka.

Well... I feel sure that most Buddhists would agree that if your past 'meritorious' deeds (good karma) resulted in a clarity of mind such as the Buddha's under the Bodhi tree then you would be another one of the very many Buddhas that already gone before. Thus under these karmic circumstances, you would have no need of the Dharma. But for us less meritorious beings there seems to be a need for at least some 'lighting of the pathway' by others in our endeavors to clear the 'leaves from the lake' of the mind. The present state of the world would seem to evidence this.

But, my not being a 'card carrying' Buddhist, it is highly presumptious of me to suggest what Buddhists would say about your statement.

You said, "... thank you, but i can be so very unclear, without trying. a celluar recall? *smile*... "

I agree. That is why I am somewhat reserved in giving my opinion about JW's theories and practices. That is why I answered your question on whether you should know about JW or not in the non-committal vein that I did.

In addition, I would think that this statement of yours is also true for almost every 'therapy school' if not all - including Buddhism.

Happy wandering and wondering? 🙂

March 2, 2003
6:53 am
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namaste, Tez.

Being noncommital in the face of one's own lack of clarity and the possible lack of clarity of the one to whom one is speaking is, perhaps, the truest face of wisdom. Of course, being unclear myself, that may not be so. In fact my use of 'truest' makes me doubt that I am clear enough to make the comment clearly.

You wish me a happy time 'wandering and wondering.' Thank you. But the longer that I am able to just live my life -- without the regrets and paralyzing indecision of whether I should or should not do this or that -- the more comfortable I find myself becoming and the more sure my steps seem to be. Perhaps this is because I am completely deluded and unaware.

But I like to think that the 'secret' is that in simply watching what arises in the forest of our journey and accepting that the holly bush can never become an oaktree that we find life to be the wonderous and excellent gift that it then seems to be. Suffering is, I think, always with us in the world of opposites, but much of my suffering appears to be a product of my mind and the manner in which it has 'judged' my own acts and the acts of others.

I do believe that evil exists, but find it most often in my heart and suspect that the evil others do also arises in their hearts and that evil is more a matter of lack of balance than of some alien force that 'takes' humans.

Ah, more wandering. But thanks for listening.

March 2, 2003
4:14 pm
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Nikka.

Your response is like a breathe of fresh air.

It is like that sudden reception of clear speech that bursts through the heavy static when tuning a radio receiver.

It is like the beacon of a lighthouse that momentarily pierces the darkness of a moonless night.

I have read response after response on a daily basis on this site for a few years now. It saddens me to see the continuity of ignorance. Many are oblivious to the observations that you have made and would not be able to make heads or tails of this posting of yours.

"... Perhaps this is because I am completely deluded and unaware. "

Perhaps being aware of one's own state of delusion or even just suspicious about the veracity of one's own perceptions of reality is a quantum leap towards attaining clarity of vision.

Perhaps the loss of perception of any demarcation that comes with the realization that all differentiations are artificial constructs of mind, is the shedding of such delusions that culminates in the 'getting of ultimate wisdom' - the Ch'an pathway to Buddahood.

I bow to the light that is within you too.

March 2, 2003
9:17 pm
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namaste, Tez.

Given the words of your reply above, I see that you are also deluded and unaware. *smile*

Your words are kind and seem a bit lavish to me. But you may have said what it is that I might have begun to penetrate lately: "Perhaps the loss of perception of any demarcation that comes with the realization that all differentiations are artificial constructs of mind, is the shedding of such delusions that culminates in the 'getting of ultimate wisdom' - the Ch'an pathway to Buddhahood."

Perhaps those Bashos and Suzukis and Han Shans have discovered exactly that.

and in bowing to the light can we see it in one another as well? I, I fear, have read some of those same posts, Master Tez, and was only able to cringe or be angry earlier. Now I read them and come here and find you. But find, as well, that I can see the the light in those who seem most dense and in those who used to make me angry. Some are almost exactly like they were the last time I spent time in here. Yet, now I feel joyful to read even the formerly most obnoxious postings.

I can only conclude that the change must be in my perception. Now my perception is light. Before it was darkness or anger or a need to be right or gentle. Now I am gentle, but so are they and therein is the difference.

When one reaches that point where one can see that judgement and differentiation are vain and futile and simply do not mirror 'what is there,' then one sees how very deluded one has been and continues to be. *smile* I just wanna say 'Han Shan, make me a cave on Cold Mountain!'

Thanks, Tez.

March 4, 2003
4:21 pm
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Nikka.

You said, " I can only conclude that the change must be in my perception. Now my perception is light. Before it was darkness or anger or a need to be right or gentle. Now I am gentle, but so are they and therein is the difference."

Yep! Our perceptions certainly govern the world that we perceive. But... the Buddha did perceive a world of suffering.

Yet at the same time 'he' also rose above his perceptions to the realization that there were no 'independent identities' or sentient beings to suffer anyway.

So... it appears that Bodhisattvas of the kin that you mentioned in your posting are sworn to eliminate 'samsara' rather than to liberate suffering 'sentient beings'.

I suspect - but do not know - that whenever there is an excessive imbalance between samsara and nirvana consciousness, Buddhas appear in many disguises.

Perhaps this is the Mind's way of maintaining the full spectrum of experiences for sentient beings to have in this sandpit of terrestial life.

After all, what variety of experiences would there be to be had if the ecstacy of nirvana, being the result of universal consciousness, was all that we knew.

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