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Why it's not enough to worship God and we need to know Him
April 29, 2009
2:57 pm
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soofoo
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Let's assume God exists. The next question is, what is the nature of God?

Some say that God is a perfect, omnipotent being who has created imperfect human beings, and has decided that some of them will eventually go on to eternal happiness in heaven and some will go to eternal damnation in hell.

I will assume, for arguments sake that such a God exists. I won't bother to go on to figure out what one has to do or not do to get on his good side. I don't need to.

Given THIS information, I refuse to participate, worship or in any other way acknowledge this creature. Let him burn me in hell with all the others. If he would create an imperfect being and torture that being for eternity for his imperfection then I will spend the existence he has given me in a single act of resistance against his cruelty. Seriously, if this is what it's all about, he may as well just put me in hell right now with all the others, even if they are only the really bad people. Even if he only sends Hitler to hell, I want to go too. Why waste time? Send me now. I'm not going to change my mind.

Now some say God isn't that bad. He lets some people into heaven and others he just doesn't let in to heaven. They aren't suffering. Okay. Well then, if this is his nature then I also choose to be shut out of heaven.

I told God this, and I was serious. It was then that I came to know that there is no eternal hell, and that every one of us (not just some) are loved more than we could even imagine. I came to know this from God Himself. This experience was more real to me than any other, including the one I am having right now at this computer. There is no way to describe it. You will have to have one yourself, to really know what I mean. If you want to have such an experience, just start talking to God, very openly and honestly. Be yourself. He already knows everything you are anyway. Do not be afraid. Just open the lines of communication.

Some people think that I believe this because I want to. They think I believe it because it's easy. But I assure you that it is NOT easy. I believe it because it's true. How many times have I wished that someone who has hurt me without consequence would be made to suffer by God, by being banished from paradise and sentenced to hell? Many times! But I know the truth. I know that God loves everyone. We are His children. Sometimes we are naughty children. We don't get thrown into an eternal firey pit for it. We know not what we do. We're here to learn.

Communicating with God is awesome.

I am a Christian. I am a mystic. Being a Christian isn't about fitting in with other Christians because I don't. And many Christians do not even acknowledge that I am a Christian, because I believe that all will go to God and that just because the Christ takes us there, does not mean that we have to say that it is the Christ, know that it is the Christ or use the word "Christ". I call myself a Christian because the Christ lives in me and I live in Him. It's a very intimate relationship, and I have no doubt that it is real. Sometimes, I wonder why God made me this way, and sometimes it feels very lonely. But the relationship with the Christ is worth every bit of it , and I have faith that I will come to understand it in time.

There is nothing better or more worthwhile for me than knowing God. It is really what life is all about, and everything that happens, happens to that end. If I could instantly go to paradise but never know God again, I would choose to stay here instead (and I don't even like it here!) What good is paradise without God? I may as well go to hell.

April 29, 2009
3:41 pm
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bereft
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do you believe that Jesus is God?

grace and peace

April 29, 2009
6:01 pm
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Soofoo,

I also feel that I can not discribe the knowing, and the experience that brought me to this knowing that GOD loves us all, the good and the bad.

I kind of look at hell as here on earth for some, they suffer, and run in the same circle over and over again and can't seem to find peace, and love in their life, when really it is inside of them.. God I believe lives in all of us, and yes I believe it is the same God for all of us as well.. I feel that God works on all of us in time, God's time... not ours or anyone elses. I am a Christian as well, but some Christians would down upon me because I do believe that it is a women's choice to have a child or not, or to terminate a pregnancy or not. I also believe that God does not discrimate against any group of people, the love is equal.

Healing and Peace

April 29, 2009
7:28 pm
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Dr. Stuart Hameroff has produced a video in which he states that Universal Consciousness(God?) emerges through high level organisms such as the brain. This video shows the direction that science seems to be taking in explaining the origin of the universe as we know it.

Will science one day make the idea of a personal God who is separate from us redundant? Are we all 'God' just as Jesus Christ claims that he was(is)?

I don't think that this video will contradict or change in any way Soofoo's experience of what (s)he chooses to call God. However it might tend to shake the beliefs of those who cling to a concept of a personal separate biblical God who created individual, separate human souls.

Please enjoy this very interesting video.

April 29, 2009
9:24 pm
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peace4all
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(((Tez))))

What a very pleasent suprise to see your name here today.Welcome back..if in fact you are back, I have really missed your posts and the Dalai Lama's insights...that said..I hope you find it in your heart to start back with them, it just doesnt seem the same with out you or them. ok..now to soofoo's post.......

(((Soofoo))))

What a very nice concept of God and the fact that we all go to heaven...I agree with you. I too am a person who believs that church can be right outside my door, I also understand when you say that you had a talk with God he is my best friend.. I sit on my porch many mornings and have a dialoge with him. It's hard to explain, but I just know, or feel it, I am one with him and he with me. And...if it works for me..then its all good ..right ?
I read many of your posts and i always enjoy your words. Hope you didnt mind me say hey to Tez...

Love in recovery, Peace4all

April 29, 2009
9:46 pm
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(((Tez)))

Happy to see you back!

April 29, 2009
10:54 pm
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on my way
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First of all Tez...Welcome back, I thought maybe you had been 'reading' šŸ™‚

I just watched the video, and sorry but I don't see any relevance to a theological standpoint. What I did hear was what would be comparable to a med student's neurological study of how our brain works, which is absolutely awesome. I did hear some mention of confusion about what conciousness is in regard to our emotions...which I believe refers to our souls, and he didn't even go there. He talked about free will, that we didn't have any, which is an opinion, and I don't comprehend how he came up with that idea in regard to our consciousness. All in all it was more educational about how complex our brains are and and how incredible humans are, and how it proves we didn't 'evolve'...only God could create such a masterpiece. We still don't understand our total brain capacity, but to throw God out of the equasion is ludicrous, at best. So inconclusion, I didn't find it shaky to watch, or scary to my faith, I found it totally not applicable to anything except that our brains are created by a power...God being that power...and any consciousness we have makes us aware of what is going on around us, and keeps bad memories, good memories, and I'm sure has other functions that some are able to tap into and some are not. But this film did not disprove any existence of God to me in the Biblical sense.

I would be interested to get a theological take from others on this film.

April 29, 2009
11:51 pm
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_anonymous
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((((((((TEZ)))))))))

May 1, 2009
9:46 am
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soofoo
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Yes Bereft, I do.

H&P, Peace4all thank you for your responses.

Hello Tez. I watched the video. I think he says that consciousness is not emergent, but rather fundamental. What do you think about this? Do you believe that consciousness is emergent?

I think these questions, "What is self? What is God?" cannot be answered by reductionism. That is to say that we can't figure out what they are by identifying their parts and the way they interact with each other. What seems to be complex here is actually fundamental. God and Self are whole, despite the apparent complexity. It is safe to say that God and self are axiomatic. Without them, nothing else can really be asserted anyway.

I think quantum physics is very interesting. However, I don't think understanding quantum physics takes us any closer to understanding God. That's because God is not a puzzle. The goal is not to solve God. But to know God. God does not keep the answers to our questions away, but we don't always know what questions to ask. I think sometimes, having a lot of questions that do not apply, can take us further and further from knowing God. In trying to comprehend, we remove our attention from knowing, we start circling the "problem", spiraling around it.

May 2, 2009
5:04 am
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soofoo

On 1-May-09 you wrote:

"Hello Tez. I watched the video. I think he says that consciousness is not emergent, but rather fundamental. What do you think about this? Do you believe that consciousness is emergent?"

I believe that consciousness is fundamental, not emergent. I agree that Hameroff does not think that consciousness is emergent. From my understanding he said that emergent consciousness precludes free will and therefore does not ascribe to that belief. He seems to me to imply that we have free will to the extent that we can get back to the mental state of fundamental consciousness as opposed to our 'normal' consciousness that is confounded by deceptions caused by our physical sense organs.

You also wrote:

"In trying to comprehend, we remove our attention from knowing, we start circling the "problem", spiraling around it."

I think that we might be on the same page - but I'm not sure. I believe that if all is one and any differentiation is but a reification produced by a deluded mind, then this Supreme Consciousness that you would call 'God' and this fundamental Universal Consciousness are one and the same. If Christ's and our consciousness are one with that of the Supreme and universal Consciousness of the 'Father', just as a wave is one with the ocean, then reaching enlightenment simply means attaining and 'knowing' 'God Consciousness'. The Buddha claimed such a state of omniscience when he 'went beyond' all 'normal' consciousness at the end of his life.

If Supreme Consciousness is also the Essential Ground of All Being and is the underpinnings of the Quantum Field then we(i.e. God + God in ignorance) may well be the collective creators of the whole universe. This is what I believe Christ, the Buddha and all great mystics have discovered albeit without the words to describe their mystical experiences in the genre of quantum physics terminology.

May 5, 2009
11:20 pm
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on my way
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Hey Tez,

I have to admit, that my post above to you was in defense and expectation of previous conversations demeaning God. And, while I still stand by what I said, basically, in that sense of immediate judgement, I do apologize.

I like your thought process in the post above, and believe it is worth pursuing. I hope soofoo responds! There are some rather profound thoughts stated by you, and while I do not have the kind of mind at this point to discuss it, I am thinking about it.

Love ya, glad you are back.

omw

Soofoo, where are you??

May 6, 2009
7:57 am
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On my way.

No need to apologize.

As for someone demeaning God, if God exists as you believe that He does, then He would be infinitely beyond any kind of diminishment whatsoever.

May 6, 2009
11:05 pm
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on my way
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Thank you Tez, that is very nice. šŸ™‚

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