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Why is it that some people have to take every opportunity to be negative about religion?
September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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I
know longer have thick enough skin to get in the fray over here
regarding religion. I have my beliefs and you have yours and I can
respect that, but it seems like everytime I look over here and when
I first log in for some reason it automatically brings me to this
side there is something negative about religion.

Just for a while
could we practice the If you don't have anything nice to say, don't
say anything at all theory?

I am a Christian,
but I have had Jewish room-mates. I have taught Muslim children. I
have worked with Mormons. I have attended Jehovah's Witness
weddings, Seventh Day Adventist's funerals, and a friend who says
she is something between a Buddhist and a Hindu, and another who
says she would send her child out to be trained by a Coven of
Witches before she would let her attend a Baptist church. Obviously
I can be pretty tolerant.

Just give it a
rest already.

Bitsy

September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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I
meant I no longer...

Bitsy

September 2, 2010
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Hi
Bitsy,

Its freedom of
speech. We can talk about religion in any we like as long as its
civil.

"don't say
anything at all theory" is basically equivalent to censorship.
That's what happens in Afghanistan. If you say anything against
religion there, they're killed.

The problem is
that here everyone who is an atheist or questions God is told to
shut up and is discriminated against. That has to end and it can
only happen after everyone else accepts that its as acceptable to
speak for religion as it is against it.

If you dont like
the topic of a thread, you can chose to ignore it.

Its Stephen
Hawkings, thats the thread you are talking about. That has made
international news. I guess you didnt like it and its ok. I dont
like it when people write Holy verses here and there but I've never
said "I want this to stop".

Everyone is free
to talk about what they believe in. Hope you're having a good
day.

September 2, 2010
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You
are perfectly free to be an atheist in my world. Have at it. I
think if you will check with MsGuided you will find I am pretty
tolerant.

It isn't just that
thread it is several.

I have had several
bad weeks in a row and just want some peace and some positivity. I
am so worn to the bone with negativity.

Bitsy

September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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I
find atheism and rationality positive. You find religion positive.
Its a diverse world out there.

If anything we
athiests and secular people have the right to speak up even more
than others. We have been hated against, discriminated against and
what not.

All that has to
stop. Everything is peaceful, no one is spoiling the peace. Just
ignore the topics you dont like but dont ask atheists to stop
talking about religion and so on. You dont have the right to do
that.

Sorry you've had a
few bad weeks. Well yea, me too. I'm looking forward to getting my
sinuses fixed. But you and others have to be more accepting of
non-religious people and let them do what they want to do. You have
the freedom to do what you want and they have that freedom
too.

September 2, 2010
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There
really is no point in you and I trying to have any dialogue. I wish
you peace on your path to wherever you are going. I wish you well
in your sinus surgery. I hope it is all that you are hoping in will
be. In the mean time have you tried mixing up your own salt water
solution to use?

My daughter has
had several allergy and sinus trouble most of her life. She had
tubes in her ears twice and her toncils and adenoids removed all
before she was 5 yrs old.

I used to have
terrible sinus infections and the protocol changed and the docs
were no longer writing antibiotics for it. He told me to go to the
beach. Snorting salt water has helped me, but I in no way am bad
enough to need surgery.

I think recently
at Sparkpeople they had a 30 days to better sleep calendar. Perhaps
they still have it and after your surgery you can retrain your
sleep patterns.

Bitsy

September 2, 2010
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I've
talked to someone who actually made a sinus irrigator machine and
pointed out that sinus irrigation only reaches over the top of the
nose. It doesnt go into any sinuses (maxillary, ethmoid, frontal
and the fourth, forgot its name).

Salt water
irrigation does give temporary relief but for me it goes away in a
few hours. Ahh cant wait to get this all fixed.

September 3, 2010
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Because they hate God, bitsy. One preacher said that if God
opened the door to hell and gave them a second chance they would
slam the door in His face saying "I would rather rot in hell than
bow my knee to you". I think he made a very good point with that
one.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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@Bitsy

I think a better
question is why do some people want to do battle for control over
the beliefs of others.

I use the word
beliefs here in a very general way to encompass all beliefs,
religious, political, scientific, you name it.

Why did Hitler
invest so much money, energy, time and effort into controlling the
beliefs of the German people?

Answer that
question at a deep enough level, psychologically speaking, and I
think that you have the answer to the question upon which this
thread is based.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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bevdee
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Bitsy,

I'm sorry you are
feeling so low. (((Bits))). I'm not sure I understand... are you
asking folks not to have certain discussions, not voice their
opinions about religion, because you're going through a hard
time?

You know, I wonder
how they/we should know. I don't always keep up with the threads on
Support. I don't read each one, and don't check daily. I'm not sure
the other Libs cussers and discussers do, either.

Now, I know that
Religion/Politics/Sex topics (all polite dinner party no-no's!)
were moved to Libs so Support could stay focused on... Support.
Libs isn't for someone hurting and raw. I think that's why it's
separate. Since the site isn't a religious one, but allows
discussions on many belief systems. I think that's why it's
separate.

Do you know that
sometimes I won't watch the news? It's too depressing. If I'm in a
bad mood, I know what not to expose myself to.

Yes, people's
religious opinions do bleed into other topics. The thing is ...
culture shapes religion. Religion shapes culture. And culture
determines politics. Bleeding all over aint it? It is what it
is.

Many peoples
religion bleeds into their support of others. It does on this site,
on the Support side. I used to call them out every time, but now? I
accept it as something I can't change. Because that's the only way
they know how to support, and it's almost always well-
intentioned.

There are people
that I won't go near, if I'm feeling bad. E.g. - my mom. See, I
know that I can't change her. Once I stopped expecting her to, or
demanding that she change into something she was either unable or
unwilling to do? I stopped trying to control her. Once I was able
to do that, a yoke fell from my shoulders.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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Hepburn
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Even
though you would like your government to orchestrate the laws or
God to orchestrate the law or somebody to give everybody one set of
rules, it's not ever going to happen. Each one of you,
individually, are seeking your own vibrational balance, and when
you find it, then you will welcome all kinds of different beliefs,
because you will never fear that the belief will take you someplace
that you don't want to be. --- Abraham

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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bevdee
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Hey.
There's Tez.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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Oh
for God sake,bitsy, people's religious beliefs bleed into the
discussion because they believe that the God they believe in will
help the person. And the teaching will help the person. Its done
out of love when it is genuine. If you don't want it, just ignore
it. You don't have a righ to judge sonmething you know nothing
about.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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Bitsy, A lot of people were damaged during their youth by your
abusive religion. The bible paints the god you choose to believe in
as an angry, jealous & judgmental man. I don't think that it's
unreasonable to reject that. Perhaps their are nuggets of truth
scattered here or there within the scriptures but for the most part
I don't see it conveying a message that any decent loving god would
care to impart.

I suspect that you
are looking for a reason to perpetuate your misery/victim
mentality? Would you go to a smokers home & then complain about
the smoke?

Maybe you could
consider dumping that shame based religion. It didn't work for me
& it doesn't appear to be working for you either.

No harm in opening
ones mind to other possibilities. Let go of the old ball n chain
that you've been clinging to.

Tez, So nice that
you've popped by! Hope all is well.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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Hepburn
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I
have to say that ever since GG came back onto the scene, the libs
side has exploded with threads on politics and religion. Hi GG,
good luck with your surgery.

Then there's my
little "In this moment" thread. LOL.

It's all good
Bitsy. Just don't read what you don't want. I agree that people
could be kinder in their discussions sometimes. Hey, I've gone off
the deep end before.... It sorta reminds me of when a person tells
me to smile when I'm walking past them sometimes? Maybe I don't
want to right now! I'll flipping smile when I feel like smiling!
Know what I mean?

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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I saw
a bumper sticker this morning that simply said :

Be Grateful Not
Hateful

That is what I
strive to be. Sometimes I fail, but I try to get back up and start
over.

Bitsy

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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Hepburn
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I
likey that bumper sticker. But of course you know that only applies
individually. Ya can't make someone else be grateful.

Have a good
day!

September 3, 2010
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Hi
Hepburn,

Religion and
politics draws a lot of traffic. I'm paid by the CIA to generate
traffic. We're trying to make some money, its a bailout by Obama.
Doing my best! Thanks for the good luck for the surgery, thats
probably what I have to do if the meds dont work which they
wont.

Its either
religion or politics or the two
goats rescued yesterday. That goat story was real cute. Its
refreshing to hear SOME positive news in today's world of
explosions and Sarah Palins.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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curious64
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Bitsy
- I think I may understand what you are trying to say. I have been
reading here for some time, but have to take a break when things
get a little heated. Until now I have really not posted much of
anything for fear of getting angry and hurt by the way someone
responded to me.

What I have seen
from the reading I have done is that when it comes to politics and
religion some here don't merely state their opposition to an idea
or belief, but they insult the believer. It is one things to say "I
do not belief in God" and another thing to say, "you are ignorant
if you believe in God".

I don't have a
problem at all with people disagreeing with my beliefs or thoughts,
but I do have a problem with people insulting me because of
them.

This sounded much
clearer in my head before I began to type it on the
page.

Bitsy I hope you
are doing well. See you on the support side :0)

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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StronginHim77
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Curious -

I completely "get"
what you wrote:

"...when it comes
to politics and religion some here don't merely state their
opposition to an idea or belief, but they insult the believer. It
is one things to say 'I do not believe in God' and another thing to
say, 'you are ignorant if you believe in God.'"

You've put into
words what alot of us have struggled to express. Thanks.

September 4, 2010
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Curious,

I agree with you
too. I have had to take breaks here when I see people that don't
want to "allow" certain words to be uttered, or thoughts to be
shared. When the pleas for their brand of sensitivity cause posting
on Libs to screech to a halt. Usually, I take breaks from even
reading on the Support side, because to me, it seems that it's the
same people with the same problems, living the same hell, saying
the same thing, offering the same advice.... year after year. It's
not that I'm bothered by someone having a problem, even an ongoing
one, with no end to it in sight. The problem I have is myself,
because I get so irritated. In order not to be tempted to post, and
hurt anyone's feelings, I back off. On Support.

"It is one things
to say "I do not belief in God" and another thing to say, "you are
ignorant if you believe in God"." That is a put-down, IMO.
But, it's also my opinion that it is a put down when someone tries
to dictate what is said, using their emotional state, or
"sensitivity" to their spiritual belief system as the
reason.

Some people
communicate differently. I know that G_ is very straightforward,
not one to give the squooshy (((hugs))), and will always challenge
belief systems. (except his own. :Q) But - you'll likely always
know what he is thinking. Cryptic aint his style. There was another
poster here a few years ago that I tangled with ALL the time. When
we posted to each other, all other posting stopped. Cause it was
on. But this person I tangled with the most, brought hard,
necessary lessons for me to learn. I had to get past my reaction to
what she said to realise them. And to realise that putting aside
our spiritual beliefs, we were an awful lot alike. I'm grateful for
the squabbles.

Anyway, Support
comes in many forms on both sides of this site. When I posted on
Libs about my grief at a loved one's passing, holding him as he
died, feeling his spirit for days after his physical death, they
were one of the first ones to offer condolences. My sparring
partners!! Guest, who doesn't believe in afterlife, just glossed
right over that!!! So maybe, don't throw the baby out with the
bathwater? I don't think any of the hateful, rude, insensitive, ill
mannered, mean atheists are actually enemies to anyone.

Here's a Libs
style question for you. If someone calls you stupid, does that mean
you are?

September 4, 2010
12:00 am
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andii
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Insulting the believer. admonishing. shaming. punishing.
ridiculing.

shunning.overtly
attacking. name calling. striking. And finally,
crucifying.

It is the walk
that Jesus walked.

andii

September 4, 2010
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andii
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I
hope you know I mean no offense by that post Bitsy.

Truly.

andii

September 5, 2010
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chelonia mydas
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((((Bitsy))))

Sometimes in
asking a question or bringing up a topic it provides unique views
into where we are in life at that moment. Maybe consider why this
bothers you so? Why can't you ignore it? Why do you feel the need
to list the ways you show tolerance and then ask for only nice
things to be said?

Any strong beleif
seems to bring out the self-righteous side of all of us. There are
extremes in all beleifs. This leads to some folks thinking that
their way is better than another. Pile on top of that the
misconception that you can save others by converting them to your
flavor of life and its a wonder that productive, civil discussions
occur at all. But there are many very productive and enlightening
discussions on a variety of topics that folks with a true interest
in seeing a new perspective can appreciate.

Some of us lack
the social skills to present important, strongly held views without
insulting others. As the reader we can either give feedback to help
them improve or better clarify their intention or for those that
are not up to dealing with their social foibles, can choose not to
read further and ignore it. I know often easier said than done for
both the reader and the writer... but it is part of the lessons
life presents to us every day.

I have found you
to always be a very supportive and generous person here with much
to offer. You are a strong woman who has perservered and continues
to do the best you can with the situations given to you. If I am
reading between the lines correctly, it sounds like you just want a
safe place to land during this difficult time. I hope you accept
this invitation to join us for a cup of your favorite beverage and
dessert on the Coffeehouse Thread. That has been my comfort thread
for years now. There is a soft sofa just waiting for you to sink in
and relax while your toubles melt away like a handful of
marshmellows in a rich cup of hot chocolate.

September 6, 2010
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truthBtold
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....my favorite all-time bumper sticker:

"Early Bird May
Get The Worm....But Its The SECOND MOUSE....That Gets The Cheese"
😉

OK - probably not
really relevant....but felt that I had to chime in there with the
talk of bumper stickers ~

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