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Why do you think there is so much sadness in people lifes?
August 11, 2008
6:26 pm
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lewis

"there is bashing going on again!!
"

It seems that Ma Strong thinks so.

August 11, 2008
7:24 pm
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StronginHim77

On the 11-Aug-08 you wrote:

" Nor do I go to extensive lengths to try and establish the irrationality of their beliefs. Beliefs are individual and personal. And to be respected."

The title of this thread is:

"Why do you think there is so much sadness in people lifes?"

Since you chose to push your Christian beliefs on this thread, I reserve the right to challenge those beliefs in a rational and thoughtful way.

You came in with guns blazing because I expressed my point of view regarding the movie the Silence Of the Lambs and Christian lack of insight and double standards in regard to the suffering of animals. I make no apologies for expressing my views in this regard!

Why do you Christians get so angry when confronted with the deeper questions about the rationality of your beliefs?

All you have to do is to give a rational reply explaining the deep basis of your beliefs and show me the error in my thinking.

Is your "displeasure" underpinned by your feelings of fear and insecurity because you do not have any rational answers to my questions?

If your own doubts about the veracity of your own beliefs underpin your anger then why not take my post - the one that so challenges your beliefs - to the highest theological intellectuals in your church or training colleges and seek their answers???? Then why not post these answers here - thereby both shooting me down in flames and reconverting me to your beliefs that I once so happily discarded? Surely your God would reward you for saving my 'soul' - wouldn't He? Did yuo note the character capitalizations out of my respect for your beliefs not mine?

In dire contrast to you, I welcome any challenges to the rationality of my beliefs. It is to my advantage to learn about where I am deluded.

I saw a documentary only last night depicting the disastrous results of irrational Christian beliefs run riot. A Christian fundamentalist group who interpreted the bible irrationally and thought the world was going to end on the 31st October 2007. The head of this Christian group - the reincarnated messiah, JC, returning to earth as the second coming - was having sexual intercourse with his son's wife and other female members of the group. The reason the messiah gave was God, his Divine Father, was personally connected to and directing both himself and the women in question to do so. The women confirmed that their God had spoken personally and individually to them too directing them to do this. Now the rationality of the law has stepped in and the new Messiah is off to jail for carnal knowledge of a minor. I supposed that this is better than what happened the first time 2000 years ago for crimes against the law of the land.

If you throw rationality out the door then this is the result!! Broken families and a hell of a lot of sadness and misery is the consequence.

In highlighting the irrationality in beliefs, especially religious beliefs, I am right on track with the theme of this thread. Why are you accusing me of bashing you?? Because I challenge the rationality of your beliefs? That is just one of the major reasons why I am no longer a Christian. I get 'shot' for asking for in depth answers! What's new? Perhaps I should know better.

August 11, 2008
8:03 pm
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Tez wrote:

>> Because I challenge the rationality of your beliefs?

Ha. The kettle calling the pot black. Tez believes in:

1) reincarnation and

2) external conciousness existing after biological death.

Your beliefs are rational to you like Christian beliefs are to Christians.

August 11, 2008
8:19 pm
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bevdee
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Well- this should up the hit count for this thread, lewis.

If bashing is expressing an opinion that is at variance with your belief system then there is bashing on this threads and lots of others. There are lots of different opinions on abuse that get bandied about here. Or relationships. This difference of opinion is rarely called bashing until a Xtian person feels threatened by a discussion about other religions or rationale from a different mindset.

I have thought about bashing a lot in the last year. I notice that bashing seems to be a term used mostly by those in the Xtian mindset. If a person believes s/he is being bashed, persecuted for her/his beliefs, then s/he can become a victim - thrown to the lions. Look at the history of persecution in the bible. If s/he stays a good Xtian, s/he might be rewarded for this persecution by being a martyr. Or at least by going to Heaven. You can be a miserable person in this life, but if you believe, if you and tithe there will be reward in the sweet by and by. There is promise of a reward by being a victim. I've watched preachers in action for years. I've seen young people question the validity or the contradictions of the "message" these men and women are trying to put out, to have their questions countered with this one, "Son [or honey]- why do you HATE God?" Total non-sequitur, but it stops the discussion cold.

I believe there is sadness in the world because the theistic belief system we have instilled in us is dysfunctional. It's magical thinking, a fantasy and believing the myth is forcing us to deny a part of ourselves. Our brain.

I believe there is sadness because the theistic religions teach us that suffering is holy.

August 11, 2008
8:53 pm
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guest_guest wrote:

"Your beliefs are rational to you like Christian beliefs are to Christians."

"Is that so?" - Hakuin.

August 11, 2008
8:55 pm
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Bevdee.

Thanks for your post of 11-Aug-08. It is 'spot on the money'.

August 12, 2008
12:26 am
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>> "Is that so?" - Hakuin.

"Yea, it is" - Guest

August 12, 2008
3:08 am
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Seeing that you have no depth of insight nor the capability of understanding anything about I believe I see no point whatever in denying your way out in left field, and highly misleading conclusions about my beliefs.

You are just not ready - sorry about that.

August 12, 2008
5:19 pm
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"I believe there is sadness because the theistic religions teach us that suffering is holy. "

do all the theistic religions teach this?

I wonder if there is sadness in primitive tribes of the Amazon and such, places where theistic religions don't exist. But wait, I guess they do don't they, what was that movie about the aborigines who thought the airplane was a God?

I wonder if there's any group of people on earth that don't believe in some sort of God. I know there are atheists, but what I mean, is there a group of people for which theism is not part of the culture? Like, not even thought of?

Kinda rambling here...

free

August 12, 2008
8:23 pm
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Free.

You asked:

"I wonder if there's any group of people on earth that don't believe in some sort of God."

Yes there are. Buddhists don't believe in the existence of a God. In fact Buddhists don't believe in the existence of a 'soul'.

This is why, technically speaking, Buddhists don't really believe in reincarnation in the way that the Hindi religions do. Hindu's believe in the reincarnation of the 'atma' or soul. Mahatma means 'great soul'.

Buddhists have a doctrine of 'anatma' or 'no soul' or 'no self'. Thus, according to the Buddha, there is no permanent entity or person to reincarnate. Having said that, Buddhists believe in the karmic influence of one life upon the next life through the laws of cause and effect. I personally envisage this process as literally a residual potential force field within the quantum field that influences the very atomic structures, and therefore the physiology, during the formation of the embryo in the womb. It is well known to science that no baby's mind is a 'tabla rasa'.

This residual potential force field is labeled with the name 'karma'(kamma) by Buddhists. It is not a person but an effect resulting from the death of a 'person' that is 'karmically bonded' in this 'quantum force field' to the embryo, the parents, and the relatives of the soon to be born new baby.

I see no real differentiation between the physical, mental and spiritual realms. All differentiations, demarcations and delineations are in my view created soley by our minds. Quantum physicists know that the observer(the mind) affects the observed(matter). The mind cannot be differentiated from this quantum field either in my opinion.

In science no real 'borders' between anything can be found - only 'continuities' and 'interdependencies'.

Einstien's equation, Energy = Mass time the Speed of Light squared, amply demonstrates this continuity between and interdependence of all so called Mass and Energy. Both mass and energy are certainly underpinned by this all pervasive quantum field.

I am only playing with totally inadequate words and concepts here to describe what is truly indescribable.

According to Guest_guest's illogical thinking, that which is indescribable does not exist. To that I say: "Duh!!"

August 14, 2008
2:17 pm
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lewis
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Hi I don't think there is anything wrong with bashing-its healthy to express our opinions-so bash away!

Actually maybe sadness is when we cannot express how we feel? That there seems to be no place to go?

August 14, 2008
8:02 pm
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StronginHim77
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Tez...and I quote:

Tez
12-Aug-08

Seeing that you have no depth of insight nor the capability of understanding anything about I believe I see no point whatever in denying your way out in left field, and highly misleading conclusions about my beliefs.

You are just not ready - sorry about that.

WHOA. Can we say "condescending?" Glad I don't live around you. My 2x4 would probably get a workout. You need a wake-up whack.

- Ma Strong

August 14, 2008
8:38 pm
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I've thought about the bashing thing on and off for quite a while. Points were brought up some time ago and so I've kinda watched these points. And they're for the most part true. so it seems.

Argue against Islam and everybody for the most part agrees that it's not a very good thing though we need to be tolerant of them.

The Mormon cult thing- everybody pretty much agreed that's a bad thing. No biggie there.

Argue against Buddhism and those who advocate for it practice patience under insult. no drama scene there.

Argue against Christianity and it's bashing. major drama. major biggie. As in "not gonna talk to YOU anymore about God you bad basher you!" OMW seems to really handle this well though, and with great patience. She won't stay in the ball game though, she bows out.

I didn't handle it so well in the past. Wanted to jump through my screen and punch the bad bashers in the nose. POW! HA! How's THAT for bashing! Kind of thing.

I think one of the problems people have with Christianity is that those who follow it take the bible literally when THAT's convenient, and not literally when THAT's convenient. And ya just can't have it both ways kuz it doesn't work.

I think a very good way to approach the feeling of "my belief is being bashed" is to practice that patience under insult thing. And lots of growth could occur for all arguing parties.

Listen to me here- lecturing as if I'm all wise and know something-

I'm not. And I don't. Just rambling some thoughts.

free

August 14, 2008
8:48 pm
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bevdee
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Free,

Hmm, looks like we might have learned from each other, huh? In case I never thanked you for being you? Thank you.

I like how you said this - "Argue against Christianity and it's bashing. major drama. major biggie. As in "not gonna talk to YOU anymore about God you bad basher you!" " Yes, as evidenced in this thread by StronginHim, it can elicit some violent reactions!! A 2x4 my ass!! Seriously StronginHim? I imagine Tez would turn the other cheek, basher that he is.

I agree - OMW does do a really good job of backing away.

"I think a very good way to approach the feeling of "my belief is being bashed" is to practice that patience under insult thing. And lots of growth could occur for all arguing parties." Yes, I still watch here for the need to defend. Still forming my private hypotheses. It's still fascinating.

August 14, 2008
9:24 pm
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MsGuided
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Bev said:
"I believe there is sadness in the world because the theistic belief system we have instilled in us is dysfunctional. It's magical thinking, a fantasy and believing the myth is forcing us to deny a part of ourselves. Our brain. "

Totally on board with that one. and a lot of what Tez and free say.
( I'm missing out on some good discussion, but I'ld rather read...just too damn tired and wrapped up in stuff at home to contribute much here)

I'll just make audience, and spurr yas all on!

What the heck is happening to me!??LOL

August 14, 2008
9:49 pm
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Why are kids happy and adults not?

Kids listen to their heart. They're not afraid. As people grow up they start accumulating all sorts of fears.

August 14, 2008
9:56 pm
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Tez wrote:

>> I personally envisage this process as literally a residual potential force field within the quantum field that influences the very atomic structures, and therefore the physiology, during the formation of the embryo in the womb.

I envisage the same quantum energy when I eat a lot of beans.

StronginHim77

>> WHOA. Can we say "condescending?"

You got it, this is Tez. Lets get the definition of condescending:

- Assuming a tone of superiority, or a patronizing attitude.

As yes, thats Tez alright! "You cant see, you're dumb, I'm ready, you're not".

The only thing you're ready for is, well you know, that. oops.

August 15, 2008
7:54 am
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CraigCo
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Guest,

LMAO!

(no disrespect, Tez)

August 15, 2008
12:58 pm
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Tez, what you are ready for is a big ... plate of fries!

August 16, 2008
4:28 am
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Sura
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Kids are Happy because they play. Adults are not Happy because they get caught up in surviving and forget how to play.

August 17, 2008
12:13 am
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chelonia mydas
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Lots of ideas for consideration here. I should stop by libs more often 🙂

As for the original question-

Has anyone considered the role that consumption, consumerism and commercials play in our saddness?

We are told repeatedly that we will only be happy and people will like us if we (buy this item or use this service or product etc.)

It has to wear on us and eventually many folks feel like they just aren't good enough unless they are able to buy what the commercials sell. Then in order to purchase all this stuff, you have to work a job that makes money. The jobs that make money, aren't usually the jobs that make you happy- which adds to unhappiness.

I think that some of the other points made on this thread already are also valid- but I have noticed a HUGE change in my view of myself during the times of my life when I was unable to watch TV and didn't listen much to the radio or look at newspapers/magizines etc.

Once I made the connection- I have done my best to limit my exposure to the unending subconscious demands of the commercials and messages of consumption. Although it has permiated our entire society and there is no way to completely escape from it. I can't even go to a local nature preserve without having a Toyota advertisement on the park brochure.

The level of individual sadness seems to be increasing in developed countries for a number of reasons, not just commercials, but it is a contributing factor.

Sadness is an important part of life, but it should not consume the majority of a person's life. Balance is the key to life- everything in balance.

August 18, 2008
12:08 am
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I like that theory on play. I'm gonna try playing more often.

bevdee, that was a really cool post you made to me. Thank YOU for being YOU!

free

August 18, 2008
12:29 am
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Free,
I have a book recommendation for you. "The Problem of Pain" by C.S. Lewis. Short book, but very intense and not a quick read. It's all about your question. I'm reading it now. Slowly.

August 18, 2008
12:58 am
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soofoo
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Buddhism is a religion. It isn't a complex form of atheism.

Anatma is not a doctrine or theory that there is no self, no soul, etc. Anatma means "not self". Atma means "self".

Buddhists believe that the ego is anatma, as are the senses, intellect, thoughts, feelings. Atma is what always is, always was and always will be. It is believed that when we identify ourselves with anatma, we get stuck in cycles, creating karma and generally suffering. The goal is to realize atma. This is called enlightenment.

August 18, 2008
4:08 pm
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truthBtold
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chelonia,

I agree with what you are saying about commercials and consumerism as I have thought about this myself.

I have even noticed the "tone" of some commercials change recently - like a sort of dead pan, mono-tone one which seems to suggest that you are not quite "up to par" as a person in general if you don't buy such and such product or service etc......

Starting to get much more psychological and sophisticated, I have noticed recently.

Even PBS has commercials now 🙁

I think it does add to a general sense of sadness, in this regard - and I am with you for less TV in my life.

You know, come to think of it - has anyone noticed recently the over abundance of public service announcements about the switch to digital TV in February 2009 everywhere?

I find it interesting that the government finds this particular PSA such a priority......

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