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Why do men Hate Spirituality???
August 5, 2005
8:50 pm
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I would have thought - no contest! Christians nil, Rationalist undisputed winners. 🙂

August 5, 2005
8:59 pm
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on my way
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you brat!!
have a good weekend..now I'm going to go read your other one, and see what you have to say..then I'm outta here. Morning for you, and Friday night for me.

August 6, 2005
8:25 am
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lollipop3
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LOL OMW.....

Tez,

I'm am by no means a Christian and I have to agree that George W. Bush is the biggest idiot known to mankind, however, having said that...I have to agree with OMW.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe. If your beliefs get you through the day than who am I to judge.

I will give my two cents (for all it's worth) and then I'll tell a story (maybe it will help, maybe it won't, but I'll tell it anyway.)

First I'd like to say to Rasputin, IMO, there is a big difference between spiriuality and religion and I believe this post confuses the two.

To Tez, there is no reason to attack or to minimize Rasputin's beliefs. There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate but to compare her God to the Tooth Fairy or Mary Poppins goes a bit too far (just my opinion.)

And now for my story. It is a very personal story and I hope it helps us to be more tolerant of each other.

I was brought up Catholic and my mother was very involved in the church (church speaker, CCD teacher, etc,). I on the other hand don't believe in the "Catholic God" and thought the whole blind faith thing was alot of crap.

Anyway....my mother was diagonsed with cancer and within 6 months was at the end of her life. She had lost so much weight and looked so scared. The fear was so evident on her beautiful face that it was heartbreaking. Four days before she died, her priest came to our house to read her the last rites. I sat there in the room and as he was reading them.....I saw the fear lift from her face. It was so evident and so clear and by the time he was done, she was at peace. She knew in her heart where she was going and she was content.

Now I pose this question to all of you.....if her belief in her God could do that for her.....who are we, regardless of our individual beliefs, to minimize that or to take that away?

I still do not believe in "God" but I do live by the Golden Rule.....

Do unto others as you have done unto you.

Love to all,
Lolli

August 6, 2005
9:14 am
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Worried_Dad
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Mind you, it sounds like Rasputin is no a Falwelll "Christian" but someone who is actually closer to the teachings. Except for thte submitting, thing.

August 6, 2005
9:31 am
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lollipop3
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Apparently my story didn't work.....

Oh well, I tried.....

Lolli

August 6, 2005
12:32 pm
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jamaicanwife
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Does mentioning your president's name mean that the FBI or CIA or NSA now read this website?

August 6, 2005
12:44 pm
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lollipop3
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I'm not sure if your question is serious or not JW but I will answer as though it is.....

I suppose with the Patriot Act it is a possibility. However, not likely.

In the ridiculous event that they do read this, I would take full responsibility for what I've said and would suggest to whomever, that I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry than some opinionated people on a co-dep web site!

Lolli

August 6, 2005
1:30 pm
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jamaicanwife
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It is great to live in a country where you can call Your Esteemed Leader an idiot (you should listen to Jamaican radio in the daytime), but I just wondered.

Maybe I had the thought because it's Independence Day here - I drove past people on the beach on my way to work this morning!

August 6, 2005
1:36 pm
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lollipop3
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Yes JW....I have to admit that it is great to live in this country. And although I did not and would not vote for our current President, I still would not trade our system for any in the world.

PS. George is very much aware of my opinion of him. I don't just say so on this web site.....I told him on his own, by e-mail.

Lolli

August 6, 2005
1:56 pm
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jamaicanwife
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I personally have a low opinion of all politicians - without exception. I assume that they all have no integrity and only want to further their own ambition - the same thing we do everyday, Pinky - try to take over the world! Whatever their stated religion, the most important thing is their political affiliation - their religion is always just a way to get the church people to vote for them.

Politicians. Yuk.

August 6, 2005
2:10 pm
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lollipop3
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Well, that technique certainly worked in this country during the last election.

Thank God for a 2 term limit.

Lolli

August 6, 2005
2:49 pm
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jamaicanwife
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It works everywhere, lolli. Overt piety wins approval, approval = votes.

Politicians. Yuk.

August 8, 2005
7:00 pm
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lollipop3

On 6-Aug-05 you said:

"Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe. If your beliefs get you through the day than who am I to judge."

I agree. That is why I added at the end of my post:

"... I support your right to believe in Father Christmas, St. Christopher, Satan, the Tooth Fairy, Mary Poppins, Ganesh, Durga, Krishna, Jehoveh, Yehweh, or whomsoever if it makes you happy."

I covered a fair range of beliefs in that statement ranging from the childish and banal through to that of the great religions. If the cap fits ....

and then I added:

" Just don't expect rationally thinking people to swallow the Christian party line as proselytizing christians do."

I added this last bit because 'proselytizing' Christians seem to disregard the feelings of non-christians. They push their 'party line', stereotypical Christian messages and scriptural quotes in a blaise fashion as if they are taking for granted that they are talking about absolute undeniable truth.

There is a limit to my tolerance. I let 99.99999999% flow over me most of the time. But in this case, I thought the very wording of this thread started by Rasputin both provocative and sexist. Then when Rasputin seem to take granted that spirituality and Christianity as we know it today are synonymous that was too much. I felt compelled to throw in my balancing posts giving other views for which I make no apology.

Many years ago when I was a red hot proselytizing non-questioning christian, a friend of mine said that Christianity as preached today was shallow. I was furious and threatened by this statement. It was only many years later that I discovered why I felt threatened. In time I came to believe that this friend of mine was right. I do not say that lightly or from a position of ignorance of the tenets of the Christian religion. Nor am I driven by my emotions - though I do resent the 'brainwashing' foisted on me in my childhood by black garbed hypocrites and whited sepulchres. It took many years to undo the damage done by these sick twits.

You also said:

"Apparently my story didn't work.....

Oh well, I tried....."

I'm not sure what you expected to happen. It was a nice story and a memory that I'm sure you cherish.

But I don't see what it has to do with my posting.

August 9, 2005
7:36 am
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lollipop3
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Hi Tez,

I understand how you feel, I really do. The whole idea of my post was just to try to get everyone to be a bit more tolerant of each other (my codependency at work perhaps....can't we all get along?).

As far as my last post goes, it was not directed at you. I was replying to Worried Dad's post where I found that he was still "defining" Rasputin's beliefs.

Perhaps I should keep my 2 cents to myself as I really don't have much of an opinion on the whole "religion" issue. It just makes me unconfortable to see others
"judging" (for lack of a better word) each other and I was hoping that my story would help others to respect each others beliefs.

Peace to you all,

Lolli

August 9, 2005
9:29 am
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Lollipop3

On the 9-Aug-05 you said:

"Perhaps I should keep my 2 cents to myself ... "

Not at all... you have the right to express your views whether I or anyone else agrees with these views or otherwise. I guess the guidelines are the only criteria that sets the limits to this self expression somewhat.

August 9, 2005
11:22 am
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lollipop3
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Thanks Tez

Lolli

August 9, 2005
2:41 pm
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sewunique
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Ras,

Each time I come to the Libs I see this thread at the top of the list. In expressing my opinion, I have been rather bothered by the thread's title. So, in wondering what this thread was based upon, I had to go back to the original post. You said;

"...I have been noticing that Women are very attached and inclined to be spiritual, God-oriented, faith-oriented, church goers, submit to God so fast - almost immediately. Whereas men tend to be more... Spiritual - anything but the Christian Faith - they can embrace Buddhism, Hinduism, eastern philosophies, new age etc."

Since this thread title bothers me so much, in being fair to myself, I am addressing it. I wonder where you have found women are more subject to these ideals, practices or beliefs more than the men you have encountered? Surely, in reading the threads here, men such as Tez and WD and others not clearly present today, have shared many facets of numerous doctrines and philosophies and bantered about many philosophies as well.

In brief, I read the title here as sexist towards men. And yes, I am clearly a woman to say this view. If I as a female, support equality, then I must also support the opposite sex as well.

Ahaaa, perhaps the title was to offer what has followed??????

Sew/C

August 9, 2005
2:50 pm
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sewunique
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Additionally, I agree

as Tez posted..."If you are confusing Christianity as we know it today with spirituality then this explains....."

August 9, 2005
6:53 pm
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Hi Sew, what do you mean? What I meant is that majority of women are more spiritual and faith-oriented than men. They are more inclined to keep spiritual side in them more than men. (There are always exceptions to every rule of course!)

The best example is this side. Look at most of our problems. What they are. Aren't they about nice girl who's in love with man who does not want to commit to her, is playing games, is having sex with her and leaving her, is jerk, is creep....

Is there a better example than that?
So, why is or what is it that you do not understand in my 1st post, honey?

August 9, 2005
7:02 pm
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jamaicanwife
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Ras, the people who post here are not truly representative of the world's general population. The people who come here are from the group of people who have been hurt, who have issues from childhood, who are in bad relationships. We don't speak for the rest of humanity who have relative peace in their lives, and the women here certainly can't talk about the nice, spiritual men out there, never having been in a relationship with one.

August 9, 2005
8:57 pm
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JW, Do you know that the majority of the population are people who are hurt, abused, broken-hearted, dysfunctional, have all sorts of problems. Peace is myth! Of course there are ideal family and marriages. But they do represent a small minority! ~RAS~

August 10, 2005
1:05 am
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perhaps it is harder for some men to be spiritual because it involves submission at some level. maybe it is a pride thing.....just a thought

August 10, 2005
3:45 am
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Ras,

I believe the amount of men represented here do not compare with the general world at large. Also, the men who do fare here are higher educated and more intelligent; if you would take the men/women ratio here at AAC with the ratio of men/women of the world at large, I would think.

Go into any synagogue or temple and see the amount of more men than women who attend services. In the orthodox, men attend shul all week, women do not in general attend. Go into any Catholic or Protestant church and see the large number of men leadership, with the population of the church body probably pretty equal of men/women ratio.

Perhaps your personal experiences have led to this idea of men being less spiritual or religious? Or perhaps I have misread what you are attempted to describe here? Or, is it because women are more open with their feelings than men that it appears this way? But if that were the case, then saying that men are less spiritual would make your statement more judgmental, wouldn't it?

Peace,

~Sew~

August 10, 2005
4:00 am
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And....if you go into any penitentiary system, there are loads of men who have submitted to a god or deity. But, that is an entirely different breed of people; and I had better not go there on that one. But, should you ever wish to talk to men who ascribe to intense boasting and sharing of their spirituality, that certainly is one population that does talk it up!

~Sew~

August 10, 2005
6:50 am
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Lost & Found,

I totally agree with you. I think it is their pride. They do not like the idea of submission. Of course even many women do not like that.

By the way, Lost & Found, are you male? Could you elaborate/expand on this subject?

Sew: The answer is found up here in Lost & Found's!!! Also I think you hit the nail on the head we you mentioned that it is feeling thing. I think that we women are more in touch with our feelings than men. I also believe the majority of the people on this site are the well-educated ones. Not necessarily/only academically, but in terms of values, principles even if they come from dysfuctional families. I heard once on TV that most families are dysfunctional. So, again that leaves Functional/healthy families in the minority. ~RAS~

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