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Why do men Hate Spirituality???
July 26, 2005
1:13 pm
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Rasputin
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I have been noticing that Women are very attached and inclined to be spiritual, God-oriented, faith-oriented, church goers, submit to God so fast - almost immediately. Whereas men tend to be more... Spiritual - anything but the Christian Faith - they can embrace Buddhism, Hinduism, eastern philosophies, new age etc.

Why do you think is that? What is the reason behind their hate to God and the Christian Faith?

Opinions are welcome from both genders!

Thank you! ~RAS~

July 26, 2005
1:21 pm
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jamaicanwife
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Because a lot of people were brought up by so-called Christian people, and they learned from the example they were shown that Christians are no better than anybody else, just more inclined to think they are.
Which makes them more annoying than any other religious group.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Christian, but I completely understand why so many people choose other paths. Too many prominent Christians are hypocrites, warmongers, liars and thieves, and claim that Jesus loves them more than everybody else and supports them in everything they do. This is a big problem.

July 26, 2005
1:33 pm
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Rasputin
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JW,

I was brought up by Christians. In my teenage I was invited to Christian church with negative unhealthy Christians who made me hate Christians. Yet, later on in my life I learned to resubmit my heart to HIM without influencing myself with those negative Christians who still exist upto today.

Up to now, I know there are 2 types of Christians just as I mentioned once to Cuthul.

1- Majority which are negative and do not represent the body of Christ.

2- Minority who Christ can be seen in them almost immediately.

I avoid the 1st one simply coz I belong to the 2nd one.

July 26, 2005
1:48 pm
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addicts wife
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J was brought up by a family very involved in their church. And to this day, he doesnt believe in god, becasue he is so scientifically logical and he cant believe in something he cannot see or touch, or see on a physics table etc.
it is soooo frustrating!!!
I ask him "Dont you have faith, Dont you believe in a higher power???
Dont you dont you?????"
and he says the bible ws a great book, it has a lot of great stories in it, but nope, dont buy it.
Meanwhile he doesnt think a marraige is a marraige unless youre in a church, He says and thinks all these things that seem to contradict what he feels.so I dont know, I pray for him daily, some days more than others, but i ask god to show his presence in Js life, and for him to find god.a spritual connection to something, he can really frustrate me, and we discuss/debate beliefs a lot
Ive left him books on his nightstand with all sorts of spirituality theories and backgrounds hoping something will connect, and click with him, but I have yet ot see it.
I know he had some kind of epiphany when he was on his last binge, but he said it was his brain, not a god.
\Okay hjoney, call it whatever ya' want , but it was something!!!!

July 26, 2005
1:56 pm
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Rasputin
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AW,

Men are sooooooooo funny. Your hubby is just the same as my male friend, the one I have feelings for. He says he is very scientific, he cannot feel the presence of God in anything. I bought him scientific book about how to discover God in science, written by Christian author. I keep praying for him and the rest is for him to do his homework. I cannot force him. It is his choice whatever he decides.

Isn't that funny how men can be alike in so many occasions.

I know that my mother is like that, the practical type who only believes 1+1= 2. People like that are very tiring and frustrating.

However we need to continue to pray for these people no matter how frustrating it looks!

July 26, 2005
2:40 pm
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I am a man yet feel like I am very spiritual. I also believe that spirituality is not only for Christians. In 1977 I accepted Jesus as my personal lord and savior and became rooted in a Christian church. My life went downhill after that. In 1980 my 9yo son was injured in a car-bike accident and survived for 4.5 more years in a vegitative state before he died. That was a severe test of my faith and I did not pass. I turned my back on God and searched for him in another form for many years. I studied and tried many different forms of faith and eventually found peace in a bottle. Pretty sad huh??!! I drank alcoholically for many years slowly ruining my life and those around me. I became totally spiritually bankrupt. When I was at my bottom, 3.5years ago, I walked into an AA meeting and haven't had a drink since. I didn't realize it at the time but the minute I reached out for help, God took away the obsession for alcohol. Since that day, I have found my higher power again and I call him God. Who knows, there may be a day in my future when I call him Jesus again. All I know is that I am a grateful man today and dispite all my problems, I walk thru them with God at my side, his will, his time. I do my best to follow along.

July 26, 2005
3:23 pm
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2bstrong
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This is a wonderful thread.

I have a wonderful friend who is a man who is quite spiritual. We have good discussions on the blessing of living a spirtual lifestyle. One that does not necessarily involve an organized religion. I am a Catholic, and find the sacraments beautiful. That being said--I don't need organized religion at this stage in my life to direct me toward God. I guess you could say that I am responsible in my spiritual maturity. My friend and I have helped each other in this.

I'm tryin: Thank you for sharing your story. I was really touched by what you said. I will try to look at my letting go of my relationship in the same way that you let go of the desire for alcohol. I will give this to God and hope that I can walk with Him--I know that he doesn't walk away from me.--2b

July 26, 2005
3:47 pm
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Rasputin
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I'm trying,

I am so proud of you. This is what helped me as well in releasing my male friend to God and ask for His will in that relationship. I guess relationships are like alcohol, they can be quite addictive. Ever since then, I've experienced freedom & strength in giving him up even though I miss him and yearn to him and have his best interest at heart.

I have changed a lot in this process.

2B,

I'm sure you will experience the same thing. I know in your case it's even more challenging coz it was 10 years relationship. However, with God all things are possible.

~Love, RAS~

July 26, 2005
5:36 pm
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addicts wife
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(((Im Trying)))))
I too am very moved and touched by your story.
My significant other battles with being wokaholic, perfectionist, anal retentive logical, and physics/scientific lovin' young man.
He learned to deal with pressures and emotions by shuttingthem of chemically through Crack, and alcohol.
Recently, on his "Last (devastating) bender" I beleive he found god. His job that he had become to hate, and his "friends" that he resented, adn the passing of his grandfather on NMothers day exploded into a week long crack binge that was soo painfully hurtful andUGLY I am shaking and nauseated just remembering 2.5 months ago.
He was not sleeping or eating and began Hallucinating.
I was home, On sedatives, On the livingroom floor ballingmy eyes out, vomiting, mourning His grandfather and him all at once , rocking back and forth prasying out loud, sobbing.
He came home 2 days after I picked myself up off of the living room floor and he told me that He was hallucinating that the earth was on fire. His feet were so hot he thought his shoes were melting to his feet, the sky was all dark and had a fire like orange horizon, and he suddenly got really calm , thinking that some sort of fire ball was going to come and kill him. he felt like he was dyting, and started ot accfept it. Then he realized that he was in a self created hell,and his whole world was being destroyed by his actions and choices. he ran, half naked down a highway, back to his sleazy hotel room in tears, took a shower and called me begging to come home.
When he got home he grabbed me sobbing, and fell to his feet balling i nthe feta lposition saying Im sorry over and over and over and held me and said thany you thank you thank you over and over. He then told me of his epihany, and what he thouight it was. he said It was his brain (I think it was god, but fine "Beain", "God" ,Bob" Whatever...)) Telling him he was killing himself and destroting everyone all around him. That he couldnt live like this anymore and NOW was the time ot start over, t oreprogram his brain, and deal with life, all of it, good, bad, ugly, beautiful.
dont get me wrong, I let him know exactly how I felt, that i prayed hed see this day, adn that I still dont beleive him until I see it. I told him what he did to his parents andhis son, my mom etc. but i didnt preach. I calmly , but very sternly and firmly said my peace.
He has quit his hated Jobs, Moved to a new shop, that he and a business partner have gotten their business up and running at, he has cut all tieswith ex "Friends" and co workers ((who are childish backstabbing gosspiing weirdos) and hes got himself on a schedule, hes opening up to me and communicating and venting instead of bottling everything in until he explodes, and is identifying his emotions instead of numbing all of them.
He still has a lot to do , but he has accepted that he has to let things go, picl and choose his battles and be okay withit. He is accepting that he is human and cannot do everything himself, adn that it is okay to need help, and accept weaknesses as a learning instrument instead of a character flaw.
I call it "Letting go and letting God"
he may call it letting go, takingresponsibility, and getting help... whstever. he knows there are things out there that are bigger than he is, and that he has no control over drugs, except by not doing them at all.
I was introduced to religion by my mom who is what we call a recovering catholic.
She tried ot bring me up that way, but The church she belongedto didnt make sence to me. They preached about how no other religion was valid, and I was going to hell for questioning my teachers.
I left that church, went to a Baptist Church, spoke with Buddhists, Shamen, wiccans, the guys that rang my doorbell with suitcases, approached people in my community college classes wh owere willingot share about being Muslum, prodestant,lutheran,Baptists, all forms of judaism,. I went tochurch and sunday dinner with a co worker whose family went ot a wonderful Baptist church. We ate lamb togehter((which i totally didnt like not one bit, but i tried it., and I listened. Spoke to Hindus, americans,Rastafarians, russians, this wonderful man from a part of Africa I cannot pronounce or spell, and and afew fokls from Laos, Korea, Japan, Hawaii, samoa.southern northern eastern and western And I loved a lot of what i learned from these peo[ple, and for my church ot say that all these kind , LOVING, genuine people were not valid made me ashamed, depressed, and deeply saddened. How could I possibly agree with that, and walk in that building on Sundays with a clear conscience???
I couldnt. I havent. and i dont regret it.
I am not established in an organized religion, but I believe whole heartedly in GOD, in Love, and what god shows us in everyday blessings and in poeple who I meet, for a reason. Life is beautiful, painful and tests us all the time in many ways on may levels. And It can be extremely difficult, and hurtful at times and downright ugly, but in that there are lessons, and blessings, and tools on how to cope and deal. ((which I forget sometimes))), but somehow am reminded by even something so simple as my cat talking ot me, or a flower i planted blooming, or a phone call I got "out of the blue" Even someone you least expect to be kind to you showing you that They too can be kind and gentle and loving,sincerely.

July 27, 2005
1:17 am
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on my way
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did someone say cuthul is back? WHERE?

soem emn are more spiritual than women..i know several who are..but truthfully, i don't think it si that any one person, male or female is more spiritual than the other, but that we have different ways of imparting it...for a very good reason.

July 27, 2005
6:49 am
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Dear Addicts Wife, it is a very touching story about your search for spirituality and I agree that it doesn’t exclusively come from any one religion or maybe not even from religion at all. You sound like a loving spiritual person. As far as your husband goes, he seems to have hit his bottom and had a spiritual experience which are basic requirements for getting clean as far as I am concerned. I hope he has got himself into a program though. I know for me and for many other alcoholics and addicts, we need to be in touch with others like us on a regular basis, do work to understand our disease, deal with the character defects that caused it and to help other alcoholics and addicts to recover. These are the things that keep us clean and sober. It is one thing to get clean but yet another to stay that was and recover from our disease. My prayers go out to you and your hubby, God bless you both.

July 27, 2005
9:42 am
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((((AW))))

I love your story so much about how you became Christian. I can so well relate to you that's why we tend to click together!!!

This is my way of searching for God. However, in my teanage, I was introduced to some Christian church which really contained Christians who were really weird, freak, arrogant, self-righteous, very strict, presumptuous.... They realy made me hate Christians. I started to go to another church where Christians there were good & kind.

When I talk to people nowadays, many of them confess to me that they know/have met some Christians who are bad/evil & arrogant. I sympathize a lot with them coz I've had same experience with these bad Christians. Unfortunately these bad Christians are the ones that make all Christians look bad or evil.

I, like you ladybugLOL, search for God in kindness, love, good people. When someone claims to be Christian, yet I feel that they are jealous, competitive, envious...I keep my distance from that person or church, no matter how religious or Christian they might apprear.

Right now, I do not go to any church unfortunatley due to the fact that there is no good church in my area.
I'm praying to the Lord to provide me with good church to the area I am moving to (I do not know when yet). Belonging to good church is primordial. It enables you to share your faith and nourish it with other believers, recognize your struggles, fears...and it is more vivid. You can even have friends from church from both sexes, esp if their faith is real & genuine, not just some churchgoers on Sundays.

I have Buddhist friends, and spiritual (Not Christian) friends who believe in energy, force, etc. I have a friend who belongs to Jehovah witnesses, though many people think they are Christians - they are NOT. We are nice with each other, I keep showing him Jesus' love and praying for God to open his eyes to truth.

I discover God every day thru the kindness of people, their unconditional deeds, love, small gestures no matter how simple or trivial all, these things talk to me about God's unconditional love.

(((Hugs)))

July 27, 2005
11:04 am
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Because we are Devil worshippers, of course..

You start off asking why men hate "Sprirituality," but then later on you say that men embrace spirituality, but not in the form of Christianity.

Actually, I don't know that it is true that men are particularly less embracing of religion in general, or christianity, or any form of spirituality.

For example, if you go to a church to meet men, I'll bet you will meet 100% church going men.

But, as to the question of why some men might not like mainstream Christian religion...

They don't like the irrationality of the creation myth.

They dont like the hateful evil violent parts of the bible.

They dont like how those violent parts contradict the good things in the bible.

They don't like how the Christian right does not respect the separation of Church and State which is a fundamental and consitutional American value. They don't like how the Christian right insists on forcing it's values onto larger society through our public schools,
laws, and our supreme court.

They don't like how certain politicians claim to be Christians, yet based on the number of civilian women and children killed by American military action in Iraq, and based on the number of inmates later executed in TExas, for example, do not appear to grasp the notion of "thou shalt not kill." They don't like hippocrasy.

They don't like how the mainstream forms of Christianity are based on the premise of Disobediance=Hell. Americans are a freedom loving people and the concept of "submission" seems repugnant to them.

They don't like the idea of their wives "submitting to 'Him.'" That makes them feel like the number two guy in the house.

July 27, 2005
2:20 pm
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((((WD)))))

Thank you so much for your insight. I so much appreciate it!!!

Your opinions are just the smae as many of my male friends. LOL

"if you go to a church to meet men, I'll bet you will meet 100% church going men."

Yes, Wd, but that does not make a churchgoer more virtuous than a non churchgoer. In fact - I mentioned this in my previous post- I met many freaks, weird, jerky, evil people in churches. At the same time, I have encountered some of the nicest, kindest people who are not particularly affiliated to any church or churchgoing.

So, it all boils down to hardwork. Yes being believer is hard work - just like anything. One has to strive to grow, learn, be conformed to become in the image of God. So, you see. Many Christians do not do that hard work. Many of them go to church simply coz they worry about their reputation, consider church like club where they can meet people, have coffee after service/mass, attend that ball organized by church, show off their clothes, their wealth...etc.

As for the Bible's events and stories, ever since the Fall (of Adam & Eve), God did not promise us easy life; in fact He told us very clearly that there will be conflict, wars, hate, clashes, disasters, famine, discrimination even within the same family. The best example about this is the conflict between Cain & Abel which resulted in Cain's killing of his brother Abel out of Jealousy. It was the 1st crime in history. So, you see Wd!

As for the separation between State and Church - I believe that is the reason why our social system and life in general are suffering a lot. We have a lot of crimes, alcoholism, pornography, drug addicts, divorce, suicide, incest, fornication, promiscuity at very early age...this is just to mane a few.

When it comes to politicians who claim to be Christians, just look at their ACTIONS, and remember that "Actions speak louder than words." This is exactly what I do when someone claims to be Christian and I want to find out how honest and truthful they are. The Bible says that we know people from the fruit they produce. Ask yourself does this person produce loving fresh fruits or hateful rotten fruits? This is exactly what I do. Our life is full of hypocrites and unfortunately churches are free and open doors to all and they cannot scrutinize people's heart and intentions. However God can identify these pretenders/mask wearers very easily. So, let's leave it to HIM, it is HIS job!

I hope I've managed to clarify all your points.

~Love, RAS~

July 27, 2005
5:46 pm
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Ditto Worried.....

Lolli

July 27, 2005
6:50 pm
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Rasputin
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"They don't like the idea of their wives "submitting to 'Him.'" That makes them feel like the number two guy in the house."

Wd: Who else should a wife submit to but to the CREATOR? That should Not intimade a man. On the contrary, it should make him proud and honorable. It will not make a man become 2nd best. After all, when a wife submits to the Lord, trust me Wd, she will love, respect and treat her husband much better than when she's not. He husband will be able to love, repect and trust her much more than when she's not.

I hope this discussion makes sense to you!

~Love, RAS~

July 27, 2005
7:41 pm
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Tryin~~
I appreciate your kind post ((and everyone elses too))
Hubbster is seeing a therapist soon, but when he had to go to a drug program like N/A, but not N/A all he wanted to do when he left was get high, because thats allll they talked about forthe hourand a half meetings. And he did just that once, I coulda killed him, but I have had other friends who are addicts, the majority of my family are addicts and I've learned a lot about the conditioning, and patterns , the hard way, and will continue to grow and learn, as he does too. But I also had a revelation during his hitting rock bottom, i let it go and let god. Granted I prayed harder, and More than ever before, but Something did click with in me, and I found a lot of contentment and releif in my meditating, soul searching and praying.
I figured, sorted, weighed, made pro-con lists and prayed some more.
I still strongly belive that this is "whi I am supposed to be with."
Those feelings have continued to be there through out. ((not during, I was packing and crying)) but I feel that I am where I am supposed to be at this point in my life,and IF that thanges, I will move somewhere else, Literally and metaphorically.
We do have quite a wonderful relationship whe nhe isnt being a "User" and he is truly One of my best friends and favorite people to be around. There have certainly been tests, trials, errors, and lessons learned, and Im sure there will be a few more ugly times to get through in our lives, but for now I'm feeling pretty good about things, and about "Us."
my hands are going numb, so I'll stop for now.
Hope you all have a peaceful evening.
Ras, Im sure we'll "talk" later, gotta go stretch my tingly hands ans arms .
Later
"Ladybug" AW

July 27, 2005
7:41 pm
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Rasputin you wrote:

"As for the separation between State and Church - I believe that is the reason why our social system and life in general are suffering a lot. We have a lot of crimes, alcoholism, pornography, drug addicts, divorce, suicide, incest, fornication, promiscuity at very early age...this is just to mane a few. "

The Church and State used to be the same thing, and that did not prevent the social maladies you describe from happening--those are not new problems. Having Church and State be the same has not exactly been helpful to the people if Iran, for example.

I don't see how removing separation of church and state could possibly do anything to help the problems you described any better than the laws and social services we already have. Back when the church had more power in the US, the biblical injunction that one should not suffer a witch to live caused a lot of trouble.

And which church do you want to be in charge? It might end up being a church you don't like, a church that might ban your favorite church.

I don't see fornication being a particular social problem, by the way.

As for who should a wife submit to...why should she submit to anyone? Civilized people do submit themselves to the rules and laws of civil society and good spuses submt themselves to their marital vows and the neccesities of healthy family life.

No, I want my wife to think I'm number one, and for God to be number three or four down the list.

And I don't think God really cares. It seems unlikely to me that anyone who could whip up an entire universe is going to childishly demand that I worship him, any more than I expect my children to worship me. I want my children to be decent people and to appreciate some of the things I've done, but I certainly don't require "submission." Only abusers demand submission.

I think that God would have to be much wiser and emotionally mature than me, so I just don't see the submission thing turning his crank.

July 27, 2005
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Wd:

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I know many Christians who are involved and drenched in all sorts of social maladies such as: infidelity, drugs, alcohol, codependency, depression, gambling, pornography, infedility, pedophilia, personality disorders, control, manipulation... as I mentioned in my previous post.

As I mentioned, becoming believer and follower of Jesus Christ does not elevate or remove these social maladies within blink of eye.

Becoming Christian takes so much hard work as anything else in our life. It can also be a process, especially for someone who has been drenched in sinful life.

However, it has been scientifically proven that people who make faith and prayers part of their daily regime are less likely to suffer and more likely to endure life's tragedies and they are more likely to cope with grief and agony in healthy and constructive ways.

I'm not trying to impose my opinions here in any way. But I am very proud of my Christian Faith and I consider the Lord Jesus Christ as my TOP PRIORITY. He really made a difference in my life. I believe if I did not have HIM in my life, I would have become criminal, evil, rutheless, obnoxious, materialist,
racist, hateful, bitter, personality disorder, manipulative, controling...etc for all the abuse and the dysfunction I have had in my life.

His unconditional love made me a new person. It transformed me into a warm, caring, sensitive, empathetic, forgiving, deep, sentimental human being...and so many other qualities which I possessed from HIM since I'm being conformed into HIS image.

These are my thoughts!

~Love, RAS~

July 28, 2005
8:43 am
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Rasputin

I can't help myself ... I have to throw this lot into the ring!

On the 27-Jul-05 you said:

"However, it has been scientifically proven that people who make faith and prayers part of their daily regime are less likely to suffer and more likely to endure life's tragedies and they are more likely to cope with grief and agony in healthy and constructive ways."

Have you ever looked into the dreadfully painful experiences of thousands of Tibetan Buddhist monks and nuns in the torture cells of the Chinese Army? Have you heard then recount the positive outcomes that have come from their experiences? Have you heard them express love for their torturers whilst expressing great regrets and sadness about the negative 'karmic' consequences that will surely befall their captors? Have you seen the look of love, compassion and hope in their eyes?

These monks and nuns survived and profited from their terrible, horrific experiences without any belief in any god but with lots of understanding, insights, and realizations about the nature of ultimate reality and 'their place' in it.

I do hope that you realise that 'faith, hope and charity' are not the sole preserve of the 'thiest'.

Many athiests(read the experiences of Prof John Wren-Lewis) and agnostics also have found great faith, hope, peace of mind, compassion, wisdom and unbridled generosity; all based upon faith in the validity of their experiences found and had within the domain of their own minds 'knowing' in an entirely different way.

Pain and suffering are not the same thing. Suffering requires as a prerequisite a certain misguided belief about the nature of physical, psychological and emotional pain. In reality pain, like its counterpart pleasure, is a psychophysiological mechanism that evolved over the millenia and was passed on by those who survived long enough to both heed its warnings and to reproduce. Pain can be a very useful mechanism and a wonderful servant but a very poor master.
On the other hand suffering, in my estimation, has little value other than to drive us to understand its nature and to free ourselves from it. I very much doubt that any god is going to do that for us, especially not one who demands the blood sacrifice of a pitiful creature nailed to a tree in order to reconcile himself with his own design flawed and 'less than perfect' creation. If there is a god and he was my 'design engineer', I would sack him on the spot for both gross incompetence and for 'passing the buck' by failing to take responsibility for his own ineptitude. 🙂

Though you may interprete it as such, this post is not intended as a chastisement, reprimand or as a criticism of you. All I hope is that it has opened the door, even if ever so slightly, into a huge highly spiritual world of 'faith' that exist outside of the narrow confines of Christianity, a comparatively recent religion.

July 29, 2005
6:13 pm
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Hi Tez,

I have always had and still do friends from other philosophies and religions, especially Buddhist philosophy. So, I have enough knowledge about it.

The ONLY religion in the world where people enjoy a friendly intimate relationship with the Lord is Christianity. Christianity focuses a lot on love, mercy, immediate and free forgiveness of sins, love an blessing of our enemies. Jesus is considered as Our Friend before He is God in the flesh. What experience can be more vivid and refreshing than that.

Jesus is my Best Friend! He can be the same to you and anyone the moment one surrenders his/her heart to HIM.

I am not saying this because I am fanatic Christian, but coz JESUS REALLY MADE A DIFERENCE IN MY LIFE, DERAR TEZ!!!

I have visited many countries of other cultures and religions and I can PROUDLY SAY THAT CHRISTIANITY IS THE ONLY Religion in the world that treats all nations from whatever background, color or ethnic group they are as equals, brothers and sisters, with fraternity justice and dignity.

Perhaps here in the west we tend to take Christianity for granted or treat it as cliche. But the truth is JESUS IS UNIQUE! His rich and uncoditional love transformed me as He will transform anyone who yields to HIM.

~PROUDLY WITH JESUS LOVE, RAS~

July 30, 2005
1:35 pm
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I am all for anyone choosing any spiritual path they like to help them become a better, wiser, happier person.

My main problem with mainstream Christianity is that in many places it goes outside and against the teachings of Jesus. Jesus, was, after all, not a Christian and he did not authorize much of what Christianity has to say about him. Jesus never claimed to be the messiah, or savior, for example, never claimed to be the product of an immaculate conception, never claimed to be God, never claimed to be better or more important or higher on the spiritual totem pole than anyone.

Conceptually and practically, there are other spiritual traditions that express a human connection with the Great Spirit that is closer than that espoused by Christianity. Christianity, for example, separates humanity from God, places God outside and above us, while some traditions view humans as part of "God," and "God" part of us.

As to whether any particualr viewpoint is any more "right" or "true" than any other with regard to God, I have no idea.

August 2, 2005
6:31 pm
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Worried Dad.

I agree with you. I read your last response carefully and am in full accord.

Rasputin.

Your response exemplifies what I see as being a stereotypical modern day 'Christian' party line. Furthermore, your response appears to me to be both devoid of rationality and to fly in the face of reality - as I perceive it, that is.

If you are confusing Christianity as we know it today with spirituality then this explains what lies behind the sexist, nonsensical question posed in the title of this thread.

For a classic example of Christian hypocrisy, one only has to observe Bush, a red hot born again Christian, the fruit of the Christian vine. Does he either turn the other cheek or advise others to do so? Does he, together with his cohorts, not play a dirty game of deceit and mendacity at the world's expense?

In regard to either Al Queda or to Iraq, do you seriously think that Christ, if alive today, would have either condoned or supported either Bush's stance or his modus operandi ?

Christ taught turning the other cheek, forgiveness, tolerance and love. I see very little of that in today's Christian world but a hell of a lot of it in Tibet and in Nepal.

You say that you are familiar with Buddhism. With whom would Jesus have more in common - Rev. Paisley, Bush or the Dalai Lama?

However, like Worried Dad I support your right to believe in Father Christmas, St. Christopher, Satan, the Tooth Fairy, Mary Poppins, Ganesh, Durga, Krishna, Jehoveh, Yehweh, or whomsoever if it makes you happy. Just don't expect rationally thinking people to swallow the Christian party line as proselytizing Christians do.

August 2, 2005
10:27 pm
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Ding-ding-ding! Round over, back to your corners - and I mean everybody!

August 2, 2005
10:57 pm
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The Jesus I know spoke firmly and knew who he was. He never thought of himself as better or less than anyone. His whole concentration was that he valued people for who they were and for 'where' they were, rich or poor, corrupt or innocent. He never judged anyone, and encouraged his followers to never judge either. He taught and more importantly lived 'humility'. He spoke the truth...in love, and gave everyone the freedom to choose if they wanted to beleive or not, and did not judge them if they did not follow. HE did not hang out at the nearest java cafe and taunt those who did not come inside for the Cup of Life...but it was always there for the taking. He came to give of himself, totally and completely without expecting anything in return from anyone at anytime. And, when he was jeered at, beaten, spat upon, etc. he uttered not a word of contempt or anger...because he simply KNEW who he was...and had no need to prove his identity or himself to anyone.

Everyone here knows what I beleive in and who I beleive in. I beleive it is right to stand up for what one beleives in...but as Jesus did.... If you know who you are, and what & who you believe in, isn't it okay to allow others to beleive in what they want to beleive in? Bottom line there are differences in what we all beleive, and no one can change that....but the main principle, to me, is live and let live....especially on a website!! If someone wants to have a cup of java with you they will ask. If coffee is poured down someone's throat, it could burn, and they may never want to try coffee again...dumb analogy but hopefully understood.

Okay, ding-ding-ding!!! Round 5 comin' up!

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