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Who owns Us all?
October 3, 2009
8:17 am
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Thanks for the info. My daughter has had the flu for the past two years as a matter of fact I took her to the doctor this past 2.17.09 and asked the doctor when we were there for the flu before. He looked back in her chart and it ws 2/28/08 so she is consistant. I figure I have a few more months to decide whether or not to vaccinate her. My next door neighbor works for the county and says the most at risk grouop is the under 25's because the rest of us weren't vaccinated for every little thing and have more immunity built up.
I am thinking I am going to let this one slide again. I am 41 and have ever only had 1 flu shot and that was 12 years ago.

Bitsy

October 3, 2009
12:24 pm
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I forget who it was above who talked about Katt Williams. I think he is about the funniest comedian we have had lately. I love to watch him on Youtube. The first time you hear him you think, surely he can't be saying what I think he just said, and then you realize WTF! I agree with him.

Bitsy

October 4, 2009
12:03 am
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Kaiser Health Reform Subsidy Calculator: http://tinyurl.com/ydopqx7

The above is a link to a calculator to compare the dif health care premium costs being proposed. It seems that the health care plans are in fact not going to be less expensive for those of us in the middle class (or at least I used to be in the middle class before all of this and hope to be again someday!).

And since coverage will be mandatory (or you'll get fined) there will be even more money coming out of our pockets. Like getting blood out of a turnip in my case- what are they going to do, put me in health care premium debtors jail?

What is beong proposed will cost me approx $300-400 more per month than I am paying now.

Really, all I can do is laugh because its absurd to think I could pay that. WTF.

sd

October 4, 2009
11:24 am
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MsGuided
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It's obvious insurance is focused on huge profits instead of providing protection to it's payors.

Paying $500 or more a month for health insurance is insane. Especially with deductables. So much for yearly check ups.

The rate hikes attached to aging are also a problem.

If you're paying up until your fifties or sixites, then all of a sudden the rates jump to double or triple, not considering a lifetime of contributions?

My insurance nightmare of late.

After my accident my insurer recommends a certain shop to get guarentees over workmanship, guarenteed payment. If i choose my own shop thay may not pay. Time lost, bla bla bla.

So i take the truck to the recommended shop. There the truck is held hostage. By that I mean, over a small right fender and headlamp repair, it takes almost 2 weeks because various clips and fasteners don't arrive with the other parts. Long story short, the repairs cost 4 grand! AND my rental was almost 900.

5 grand later ( which would of been maybe 2/3rds to a half of that if i went to another shop, but then i get railroaded due to the time wasted to find another place, then the communications between the shop and insurance...if you don't choose THEIR preferred route they stretch it out and perhaps i won't have a rental!?SO we get held hostage by their preferences and the costs are MORE!) with this shop guarentees, over the top inspections, dissembling, assembling etc, the rental.....all of this is beyond my control since these companies get almost free reign with insurance.HUGE $$.

I get the bill, pay my deductable.

I get a registered letter from our insurer telling me our insurance is cut off as of Nov 17th.

They dumped us because of my 3 accidents in the last 5 years. One of them i didn't even claim or carry out repairs.

I figured out what we paid in insurance over those years, compaired to the cost of repairs, and Insurance still made almost 2,500 off of us. Not a loss at least.

They don't even raise the rate. They dump us.

Now we are "red flagged", shop for new insurance, they see our records ( mine) and we get gouged...don't know yet how much, but maybe it will double?

D is taking it in stride but i get riled about the system, how they come up squeaky clean, always profitting and the working calss gets royally screwed if we make a mistake, or have "flaws".

This is capitalism for ya.

It favours the rich, and will suck every person dry to do so.

The rich screw up ROYALLY , to the extent of criminal intent, and they get bailed out with billions?

I can't wait to see Micheal Moores " Capitalism: A love Story".

October 4, 2009
11:39 am
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MsGuided in another lifetime ago I would have argued with you. I was plain vanilla and plain white bread so to speak. I thought I was middle class. I am sick of both the Republican's and the Democrats in my country. The only difference I can see is that Republicans are at least honest about what they are doing the Democrats hide behind the facade of helping the little guy, all the while both of them are robbing us blind.

Bitsy

October 4, 2009
11:57 am
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I hear ya, MsG. You're damed if you do and even more damned if you don't. And there is nothing you can do about it. You'll be able to get insurance somewhere- at the high cost like you said. THAT's probably another business in itself.

So...they say comsumer spending is what pulls us out of a recession. But people don't have anything to spend- its all for survival and the requirements of living. NO dicretionary spending (at least in my case).

My newspaper subscription is up- I used to pay annually, but the price is up, the paper is smaller, hardly worth it. My one luxury and ritual and may give up.

I guess the next luxury will be what?? food? gas? electricity?

sd

October 4, 2009
12:01 pm
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Someone mentioned Katt Williams and I laughed my butt off yesterday listening to him talk about gas prices.

Bitsy

October 4, 2009
12:31 pm
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Bitsy: Is he on the radio?

I saw that you sell things on craigslist- how do you actually execute the sale- do you meet the people somewhere?

sd

October 4, 2009
12:40 pm
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Katt Williams is on youtube. I just watched a few of his bits. One on cloned meat. He has offensive language, GD, MF, you name it. Calls himself and everyone else "nigga", but when you actually listen to what he is saying he is right on the money with what he is saying and he makes me laugh my butt off.

I just posted that I was having a yard sale on Craigslist and people emailed me to find out where. It is fairly simple to do. I made about 800 getting rid of a lot of my dads tools and things. One guy came and saw what all I had and started calling all of his friends to tell them. He sold about half of it for me and stood there to make sure no one beat me out of anythhing. Come on you can give her a little more for that you know it's a good deal.

Bitsy

October 4, 2009
1:43 pm
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Thats cool you had a yard sale Angel- very cool of him to do that.

October 4, 2009
6:52 pm
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Back to 'Who owns us all'

The Obama deception. What's the real agenda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....&
feature=fvsr

October 4, 2009
6:56 pm
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In order to prevent the text window from expansion, as has happened previously when I've posted links, I had to hit 'Return'(shift) after the ampersand (&) which causes an unwanted space there. Be sure to close that gap between the characters prior to hitting search or go in your browser.

October 4, 2009
7:01 pm
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Obama is a charlatan. I didn't vote for him but I know a lot of people who have buyers remorse.

Bitsy

October 5, 2009
1:59 am
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Itsy,

Yes, he's a mere puppet. Promising things like 'withdrawing the troops' for one, prior to the election. Now we can see that his real agenda is ultimately really no different than George W's was. In fact it's even beefed up from GW's plans. To move ahead faster & with more zeal than ever before out of a fear that their time to accomplish what they want is running out.

It's a fairly long vid and I haven't yet watched it in its entirety but, saw enough to reaffirm what I already knew.

Hell, he could even be popped in the melon & there would be someone else taking his place without even skippin a beat. Someone with the same bullshit ideologies and in fact they'd probably blame it on terrorists again as was done with the 911 episode. Yea, instill fear into the people. Make them believe that the very existence of the old USofA is in jeopardy. So much easier to control/remove freedoms from folks when they're made to believe that they have no other recourse than to do what the leaders say to survive.

A real load of crap that sheeple are just now beginning to wake up to, thank God. Actually - thanks be to the wise & the internet for the ability to expose this venality.

October 5, 2009
3:28 am
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CraigCo

On the 23-Sep-09 you wrote:

"Hey Tez. Hope you're well."

Yep - sure am ... and you too, I hope.

Then you wrote:

"So, in my estimation, it's highly unlikely that the masses are ever going to develop that "segacious" mindset required to make a distinction between what is really better or worse. At least not anytime soon. Wouldn't you agree?"

Yes, I would agree. But since I believe that we can only change ourselves, not others, getting to the core of our mind's discontent would seem to me to be the way to achieve at least our own happiness. The core of that discontent is a mind that always seeks to label 'this' as 'good' and 'that' as 'bad'; that is, a mind that is always judging and looking to maintain what it perceives as a lifestyle beneficial to its own wellbeing.

As Seng T'san puts it "To set up what you like against what you dislike is the disease of the mind." I see this as meaning that my mind will always be ill-at-ease or in a state of dis-ease when I have a mindset that is always setting up my preferences and my actions by using self-seeking motives to serve those ends. Of course if I could control my world to facilitate the satisfaction of my every whim, then I would be able to obtain my preferences. Since I cannot control anything but the smallest parts of my world then I am bound to fail in bringing about the realization of my preferences.

IMHO, this thread is about the discontent experienced by the posters here who seek to change that which is beyond their power; namely, the minds of certain very rich and powerful 'others'.

Then you posed a very good question when you asked:

" Should that be the case - how then, in your opinion, are we to respond to the growing amount of available info that's exposing the corruptness of the ruling elite?"

I would respond to that question by looking at what I should try to change, what I should not and the degree of wisdom that I need to have in ascertaining the difference. IMHO, I come up somewhat lacking in the wisdom department in this regard. What I can and should change is my own mindset. I can, as Blake says, in my own mind create a hell of heaven or a heaven of hell. I want to create a heaven of what is already a heaven. I do not want to continue creating a hell out of that natural pristine state of Mind that underpins all.

Corruption has always been with us. It is unlikely to ever change because of the greed to which the human being has subjected him- or herself. Greed is a poison based upon 'ignorance of the mind' as spelt out in Seng T'san's poem written hundreds of years ago.

And then you wrote:

"Are you suggesting that although we can & should be concerned for the plight of other, we should only be pursuing that deeper understanding of 'what really is' so as to effect harmony within the universe - type o thing??"

Yes we should be concerned with the plight of others(compassion)if we want to be happy of course. Yes, it would be to our great advantage to pursue a deeper understanding of 'what really is'. But there is a huge difference between intellectually knowing 'what really is' and actually 'seeing' 'what really is'.

Seng T'san says:

"To deny the reality of things

is to miss their reality;

To assert the emptiness of things

is to miss their reality.

The more you talk and think about it,

the further astray you wander from the truth.

Stop talking and thinking,

and there is nothing you will not be able to know.

To return to the root is to find meaning,

but to pursue appearances is to miss the source.

At the moment of inner enlightenment

there is a going beyond appearance and emptiness.

The changes that appear to occur in the empty world

we call real only because of our ignorance.

Do not search for the truth;

only cease to cherish opinions."

When Seng T'san says not to 'search' for the truth I think that he is implying that we can 'see' the truth only by going beyond all endeavours to use our ignorant minds in futile thought activities. 'Seeing' can be had between 'thoughts', as it were. But since thoughts preoccupy our minds in great proliferation, the time spent in between - when we can possibly do the 'seeing' - is so small as to be nearly useless. To 'return to the root' means going back into this 'underpinning Mind' that is pristine and without the conditioning of the deluded mind with which we are so familiar.

Then you wrote:

"Oh, could you maybe dumb down your response a tad - fer the likes o me?"

Try as I might, I find it very hard to put into words that which lies beyond words(thoughts). Seng T'san did just that in his poem. But his poem takes hours of deep meditative contemplation to grasp even the shallowest depths of his message. My literary skills leave much to be desired by comparison to those of Seng T'san and his interpreters. I apologize for my shortcomings in this regard. The fault lies in me.

But the more we try to seek answers to rectify our own 'predicaments' by going outside ourselves and by trying to mold our world to suite our own preferences the more we contribute to creating our own discontent. It is this very world of delusion that is propagating the seeds of dissatisfaction and maintaining their growth in us and in those millions of other human beings throughout the world.

No one owns or imprisons us. Our 'prison guards' are the very delusions of our own mind.

One of Seng T'san's followers asked him to show them the way to 'liberation'. As the answer, Seng T'san gave them the very profound question: "Who is it that binds you?"

When we go within and ask ourselves this question, while remaining in the present moment, we find no 'bonds' whatsoever. As soon as our thoughts race away into either the past or the future, then the self-made 'bondage' appears like bogeymen on a dark night as terrifying figments in the fertile imagination of a young child's mind. So our racing, seemingly unlimited numbers of thoughts about the past and the future which emanate from a seemingly unknowable source, fire off our negative emotions at random; therein, creating our delusions of 'bondage' to the banks and their underpinning financial magnates. These guys are just as 'lost' and deluded as the rest of us. Huge discontent is their lot - have no doubt.

I hope peace and serenity are your daily experience.

October 5, 2009
4:57 am
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Thanks Tez for the response & the well wishes, you ol sage. And I don't mean that sarcastically. Much to consider. Your words do raise a few more questions with me but, now is not the time for me to get into it. Late hour here in Canada. Gotta get my arse horizontal soon. An important appointment tomorrow.

Hope to talk again soon though. I may have to put my internet out of commission in a few days from now. Part of a plan I have to trim the fat off, sacrifice some luxuries. i.e. land phone, cable, internet, as they aren't exactly necessities. Things could change fairly rapidly should even a couple of medium sized jobs transpire, if only temporarily. So, it's hard, if not impossible to put that type of stressful thot completely to rest.

To loose some luxuries is one thing, but when a person's struggling just to keep afloat, concerned about eating & having a roof over their head, then positive thots only go so far. I'm no Francis of Assisi!

On the flip side, I do realize that dwelling on the negative can have an adverse affect on ones serenity. so freeing ones self of that 'stinkin thinkin' is certainly a prerequisite to achieving inner bliss. However, there's a certain amount of stress that is inherent with taking necessary action when a person finds themselves under the gun. Wiping the mind clear of that sounds tranquil but, inaction won't pay the bills so, our hands are often forced. A survival of the fittest thing playing itself out.

Peace back atcha!

Cc

October 5, 2009
6:28 am
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CraigCo

On the 5-Oct-09 you wrote:

"Wiping the mind clear of that sounds tranquil but, inaction won't pay the bills so, our hands are often forced. A survival of the fittest thing playing itself out."

I couldn't agree more that inaction won't pay the bills. I'm quite confident that Seng T'san would thoroughly agree with you too. Tranquility and appropriate intentions followed by correct actions are not mutually exclusive. It is not our actions that need to change but our attitude to those actions. For example, one can go for an interview for a job full of fear and anxiety because of obsessions about wanting a positive outcome and fearing a negative one. Can you imagine going to the same job interview without any preferences for either outcome yet at the same time knowing and doing what you have to do in order to eat and provide a roof over your head? Well, that's what the Dalai Lama does every day in trying to free Tibet!! He knows what he has to do instant by instant; what is best for humanity especially the Tibetans; yet he has little or no emotional investment expended in strong preferences about immediate outcomes in each and every present moment as each manifests.

As for survival for the fittest, many very 'unfit' people survive today. How many Canadians starve to death or die of exposure these days through being unemployable? Compassion is a natural trait of the mind that does thankfully surface to ensure the existence of Social Security safety nets.

All the very best in your 'important' appointment tomorrow.

October 5, 2009
2:05 pm
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Thanks Tez for not answering the querie about how you recieve your present income.

Since we're all working and revealing the fact we all are paying mortgages, having to compete in the job market, deal with dwindling demands, plummeting wages, higher operation costs, etc It's a little difficult to think or function like a religious guru/master living on the donations of followers.

( I see lots of retired folk living it up, not a care in the world, while we deal with the mess presented to us, and wonder if our lives will be so good when we reach their age)

They just don't have the same issues or life to deal with anymore. Our world has changed ALOT!

It is very much like you are refusing to understand before you present more Buddhist theories and poetry.

I'm an angry idiot anyway. I just don't get it either.

I just don't see a Gurus reflections as being useful for me. I am not living his life, nor him mine. It just entraps people into thinking they are not good enough, wise enough and need to give their power or faith to some religious movement for peace?

I think our whole cultural and economic structures need to change for a more just, peaceful existance. Present religiou sor spiritual doctrin is part of the problem. IMHO.

I still have mouths to feed, and the moments of peace I get are short escapes. I have to work for every bit of comfort i get. Perhaps i should visit the food bank? That should make me feel better.

On a worldly scale, I shouldn't care about ancient forests being destroyed, waterways polluted and changed so fish can't spawn, destructive mining practices, crime, discord, disease and pollution.I shouldn't bother searching for the root causes of these things?

I should take Tsengs poem as an indicator this isn't really happening. I'm just focusing on the wrong things?

I could just give up, join the throngs who shop at Walmart, have dinner on the table at $2 a serving,or I could find shelter under some charities umbrella? Jion a church group? I don't see how that would make me feel peace in a complete sense.

The Dalai Lama used to live a life of absolute luxury. He was ousted from Tibet, but his religious status garnered plenty of donations, offers from the rich. He isn't hiding in some forest, freezing, starving, braving the elements.

Perhaps his fixation on getting Tibet returned to him is a waste of energy and he is attached to material things.

Spiritual endeavors can be persued anyhwhere.The spirit embodies all things?

I think any man who submits his persona to a large religious movement, decides to represent that movement, be it Xtian, Islam, Buddhism, Hindi, would have a comfortable life.

Sorry again. I beleive organized religion is a huge part of human suffering. It creates and feeds some kind of psychosis. The power paradigmn isn't always controlled by the worthy and just.

These factions are like corporations. Hm. No tax to pay either. They are shelters for those who reside within. They are removed from the rest of society.

(The Director of Sick Kids Foundation in Toronto, a charitable organization, was paid 2.7 million when he left, in addition to his hefty pension and over half a million yearly wage.)

It's amazing what charity dollars can do huh?

Non taxed dollars that should go to the needy. Using the NEEDY as the focus to raise funds is always at the forefront. So much of the money raised goes to those who run the organizations. They get rich.

I'm an idiot to think thats wrong i suppose.

Priests, Presidents, Ceo's live a rather lofty lifestyle and can afford to have lofty ideas.

It's just hard for me to get caught up in all the poetic gobble_dee_goop, when i know what it takes to make such lofty observations.

That's hard to do when yer stuck in the muck with the rest of the slaves, AND non religious.

Sorry. I don't beleive taking advantage of others, the weak and the working, taking donations to prop up some flawed ideology ( that only allows complete refuge for it's leaders in a place of power) are places to get good advice from.

They keep us trapped in this flawed system. They're a part of it.

I think a guy like Jacques Fresco is more aware, and has better solutions to the human plight. He has the proper tools, tangible ideas. Not a bunch of esoteric talk that doesn't fit with our earthly lives or makes them better. He points out all the flawed structures we hold on to and offers solutions everyone can apply.

He doesn't sell some religious/spiritual ideal that only serves as a soother.

I can also list various poets, who dwell on the same ground i do, as inspirations and are examples of true bravery.

Sorry again. I'm not getting discounted or sidetracked for the sake of Buddhist doctrin.

October 5, 2009
8:14 pm
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(m)

Yea, you said it, girl. Pretty much sums it up for sure.

Hey, how bout listing a couple of those other posts you'd mentioned? (if or when you feel like it) I'd be interested in having a gander.

Fresco says:

>"What is needed is the intelligent management of Earth's resources. If we really wish to put an end to our ongoing international and social problems we must eventually declare Earth and all of its resources as the common heritage of all the world's people. Earth is abundant with plentiful resources. Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and is counter-productive to our survival."

"Today we have access to highly advanced technologies. But our social and economic system has not kept up with our technological capabilities that could easily create a world of abundance, free of servitude and debt. This could be accomplished with the infusion of a global, resource-based civilization where all goods and services are available without the use of money, credit, barter or any other form of debt or servitude."

Unfortunately the banks/ruling elite have no vested interest in him or his ideas. Save wishing that he would maybe just shut-up or disappear.

October 5, 2009
8:34 pm
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MsGuided
5-Oct-09

"Thanks Tez for not answering the querie about how you recieve your present income."

Any time...

October 5, 2009
8:51 pm
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MsG: I posted my thanks on the wrong thread.

Bitsy

October 5, 2009
9:10 pm
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Hi CC.

What societies existed without money?

So called "primitive" ones. Mostly Native, Indian, nomadic.

They all thrived and prospered without using a monetary system. The resources of nature determined their lives. They traded with distant tribes to obtain goods that couldn't be produced in their geography.

They only used what they needed within a time frame. There was little waste.

(I for one, don't really understand how we can function well without bartering. Everyone has different skills, so bartering would be an equal exchange.)

Their technologies were primitive also. Knives, containers, methods used to make clothing or preserve food.

It amazes me how the native culture in Canada could navigate across this land. How they could traverse the lakes, rivers, valleys, woodlands and marshes without navigation tools. They just read natural sign posts, and passed info down from generation to generation.

Now technologies are advanced, complicated and efficient. What Fresco brings forth are truly magnificent ideas that can put technology to better use and create healthier happier lives for us all.

Technology has sped up our destructive effects.

Your last comment about him shutting up and disappearing is a sad reality.

Fresco writes this From his New Social Design Essay:

"Unfortunately, the world’s outmoded social, political, and international order is no longer appropriate to these times. These obsolete social institutions are unable to grasp the significance of innovative technology to achieve the greatest good for all people, and to overcome the inequities forced upon so many. Competition and scarcity have caused an atmosphere of jealousy and mistrust to develop between individuals and nations. The concepts of proprietary rights, intellectual property, copyrights, and patents manifested in corporate entities and in the sovereignty of nations, preclude the free exchange of information that is necessary to meet global challenges. The European Union represents an attempt to bridge the present with the future, but it falls far short in that it relies on the crutch of the monetary system."

http://www.thevenusproject.com.....sign/essay

The whole essay needs a reading to comprehend, even slightly, the genius of those who want to create a resource based economy.

October 6, 2009
5:46 am
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Tez,

U there? I was looking forward to your response to the question & comments put forward by MsG. As per usual she was able to articulate her thoughts more eloquently than I believe I would have.

Albeit your Buddist based thinking appears to be coming across as a bit lofty to some, I feel it's often a worthy read. I believe that your intentions are not to offend but to simply relay some of the knowledge that you've acquired over the years.

Anyway, I'm not trying to bait you into a collective Buddhist bashing party by any stretch. lol

Trust you're well.

Cc

October 6, 2009
12:54 pm
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CC...I'ld rather not go there.

Tez had his Buddhist thread and decided to let it go. And I don't think he really cares about me or my life. His lack of response to what i write, and the response "Any Time...." seem pretty dismissive toward me.

But in response to Seng Tsan's poem here is what the Dalai Lama recently said.

http://www.dalailama.com/page.88.htm

"It is not the emptiness of existence but rather the emptiness of true or independent existence, which means that things exist by dependence upon other factors......
The topic that we are discussing today is the interrelationship or interdependence between the natural environment and the sentient beings living within it.......Also, about the question of human survival, human beings are social animals. In order to survive you need other companions; without other human beings there is simply no possibility to survive; that is nature's law, that is nature."

I'm not a Buddhist follower but this doesn't mean i can't agree with some of what is put forth. Some ideas and theories are shared by various groups. It's true, we aren't so different.

With critical thinking we can see these comments as an indicator that we are ALL connected.

Corruption within our societies EXIST and we are reacting to them normally. I think Tez is choosing the "don't worry be happy" stance because it works for him.

We react to comfort with peace, we react to threats by trying to protect ourselves. It seems some people in authority want us all to comply to our own demise? If you care for others who are in the same postion you don't make fun of them or give them a condescending pat on the head.

I posted this thread because I know us civilians are being threatened.

Going to war is an extreme and not one I support.

Rallying others to take action ( with their beleif systems, what they support monetarily, and simply saying NO to what the corrupt try to impose upon us)

The comments by DL also confronts the "be alone" movement.

Being alone is not the answer and creates more mental illness and strife. If I'm in a bad situation socially with others I am best to find a more postive group of people to be around.

I am better off believing i am worthy of better treatment, open my eyes and heart to people and groups that behave with respect and kindness toward eachother.

Isolation isn't the answer.

October 7, 2009
9:29 pm
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CraigCo
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Article:

"The Fed, which is owned by a consortium of banks and was set up to serve their interests, is tasked with seeing that the banks are paid back; and the only way to do that is to inflate the money supply, in order to create the dollars to cover the missing interest. But that means diluting the value of the dollar, which imposes a stealth tax on the citizenry; and the money supply is inflated by making more loans, which adds to the debt and interest burden the inflated money supply was supposed to relieve. The banking system is basically a pyramid scheme, which can be kept going only by continually creating more debt."

URL of complete article:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php
?context=va&aid=15531

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