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When push comes to shove.........
August 26, 2004
7:42 pm
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brendalee
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and that bottomless pit of a black hole seems to encapsulate every fiber of your being.....can you not help to have faith in SOMETHING??? If so, what is it?

August 27, 2004
10:49 am
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workinonit
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Faith is such a nebulous concept. It isn't seen or heard nor can you touch it. I think the actualization happens when a crisis catches you and you simply believe enough to stick with it.

When I was 41 years old I left my husband of 20 years. My last hurdle was thinking about what the kids would go through. This is when I realized my real faith. I knew I had to believe this would be ok in the long run and you know? it is truly getting there and I never doubted it. Faith!

August 29, 2004
10:02 pm
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I have faith that the light will come on every time I activate a light switch. But that faith is based upon past experiences of many successful outcomes of such actions.

Everything within the universe is cyclic and impermanent. Upon this I can depend. Everything arises, abides and then decays and changes form, even our sun itself. Having faith in this process, I know that my body and its aggregates have arisen, are abiding, are decaying and will one day shortly change form drastically. About that, I am certain. Will 'I' be alright then? Well ... this begs the question: "Who or what is this 'I' that is the focus of my concern?" My faith in my own wellbeing at and after my death depends upon my answer to this question. If I think that 'I' depend upon my aggregates for my 'awareness' and wellbeing then my 'I' is in big trouble. In this event, my faith will then be on very shaky ground indeed. I will need faith in a 'big daddy in the sky' to save me from either extinction or eternal suffering in some imagined hell. Maintaining such a faith is hard for a thinking person to sustain.

Who is this 'I' that seems to demand being valued enough to warrant being 'saved' from experiencing the most natural event in the universe - i.e. death.

September 1, 2004
7:39 pm
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Molly
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Ahhhhh Tez, you never cease to intrigue me with your process!!!!!!!
For each of us it is different, not wanting to surrender,curiosity, survival ? What ever that means. When I get to that point, I usually rebel......... Find enough spark to light my fire, regardless of the size of the flame, some times I get angry, some times I don't want to loose, some times I say oh, what the hell, bring it on I can ignore it. I am currently trying to find some passion. Its a bitch. But when push comes to shove I am sure I will. Not there yet enjoying my rut.

September 2, 2004
3:44 am
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Molly.

You said:

"... some times I don't want to loose ..."

What is it that we can acquire that we will never lose?

Who is it that is going to do the losing of 'every thing' sooner or later?

What person, place or thing has an absolute self-nature such that he/she/it can be called an 'indivisible being or thing'?

September 2, 2004
5:22 pm
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workinonit
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This faith conversation is taking an interesting twist. I have been exploring this idea lately in my experiences past and present.

Rather I have been examining how I have learned to manipulate situations to suit what I thought were my needs. Now, in reflecting upon these subtle manipulations I have found that what I was trying to do was play God. I wasn't calmly accepting that life would unfold on it's own. I didn't have enough faith to understand that what I thought I wanted may not be what I wanted the following year.

Admitting this to myself has freed me from some weighty mass that pulled at me and drove me crazy trying to figure out how to achieve my sought after ends. Now I smile with the knowing that I don't have to do a darn thing but pay attention to my moments. Not only do things happen as they should but, the results are more fulfilling. Imagine that.

September 2, 2004
9:07 pm
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Molly
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Tez, ahoy mate. Loose, as in I really want to be right, and not wrong, but,I have learned to live with the experience. I still have ego, and have learned to recognize it as such. That shoulda , woulda coulda thinking that can kill the spirit if one doesn't accept it as a process, and return to the present. I am guessing that I have taken loss experience as a gain, rationalizing ???? Learning, but the truth is I don't have it. What is it , mostly material, being right, or did I gain more with my loss? I don't believe that any of us can become indisivable, as there is always an effect, we drain or contribute

September 2, 2004
9:13 pm
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Workinonit.

You said:

"Now I smile with the knowing that I don't have to do a darn thing but pay attention to my moments."

Yep! This is the answer - so easy to say yet so hard to do. Fear of my sustaining harm in some way or not having my needs met usually drives my mind into seek pain relief from such thoughts by trying to passify my past guilt or into building my behavioral 'fort' in my mind to protect myself from future pain. This implies that I either live in my past pain or in my future anticipated pain. In doing this, I miss my life altogether and in either case I live miserably. John Lennon said in his song "Beautiful Boy", "Life is what happens to us while we are planning something else".

The Buddhists call living in the here and now, 'mindfulness'. Thich Nhat Hahn, in his book,(1988) "The Heart Of The Buddha's Teachings" says:

"Sometimes I ask one of my students, "What are you doing?" to help him release his thinking about the past or the future and return to the present moment. I ask the question to help him 'be' - right here, right now. ...

According to Buddhist psychology, ... the trait "attention" is "universal", which means we are always giving our attention to something. Our attention may be "appropriate" as when we dwell in the present moment, or "inappropriate", as when we are attentive to something that takes us away from being here and now."

Being present to every instant and feeling the body responding to its environment, wherein mind and body are one, is bloody hard!!!

September 2, 2004
11:20 pm
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workinonit
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Hell yeah Tez, you have that one right. But, it's a whole lot harder and more complicated to stay focused on the effort of controlling or manipulating. This has been such a freeing discovery for me and I feel like the dots have connected, the cloud of confusion has lifted, my sights are wider and the view is full of potential that just is.

I spent so much time in this life feeling like I was missing the action somewhere. Well, I was!!! I was missing the action right under my nose. Jeez, I am soon going to start quoting the Wizard of Oz!!

I like the idea of asking myself, " What are you doing" This could be a strong tool to help me continue this path.

September 3, 2004
10:11 pm
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Workinonit.

A good test for me is to observe whether I am enjoying seeing the bubbles pop when I am washing the dishes. Do I feel the toothbrush whilst brushing my teeth? In both cases, I'm mostly thinking of something else.

Another is when I'm making love. Am I looking forward to the orgasm or thinking about my performance? Or am I in the moment, experiencing the person to whom I'm making love.

Do I really feel and taste the coffee?; the carpet under my bare feet?

Can I 'see' my mind thinking and just let it be? Or do I chase after my thoughts trying to catch them and to hang onto them?

The list goes on!!

This posting should be on the Zen ... thread. 🙂

September 3, 2004
11:19 pm
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brendalee
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I think that faith is about humility , and humility and "letting go" is about the task of once we lose ourselves...by Crackie - if we don't find ourselves....how 'bout that for a major juxtapostion???? (Funny how that all shakes itself out to be....) Hmmmmmmm.

September 4, 2004
10:54 am
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workinonit
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But, what if faith is simply what the whole point was in the first place. I mean maybe it is the ultimate release of ego.

When I give it back and say, hey whatever...I'm here for the ride..you lead. That's faith, that's enjoying the moment.

Tez, I remember the moment I understood this sharply focused, in the moment living you are talking about. I was hanging wash (believe it or not) and I was feeling kind of low when I looked down in the grass and saw these awesome tiny flowers. Bright orange, purple and red. Perfect miniature specimens that I never knew existed. What a rush. I got down in the grass and spent a timeles moment absorbing this newness. I'll never forget that time (non-time) It was an awakening that was better than any other high I have ever tried.

September 5, 2004
6:20 pm
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Workinonit.
"... I looked down in the grass and saw these awesome tiny flowers. Bright orange, purple and red ..."

Yep! What you describe is about seeing life anew at every instant with a perception that is totally unconditioned or unfiltered by any previous other. That state of awareness is called 'nirvana'.

September 7, 2004
8:50 pm
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workinonit
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Tez, are you telling me that I may have experienced nirvana? OMG!!!! I am actually impressed.

I only hope I can get there again.

Thank you for your continual insight. You are a very special teacher to me.

September 13, 2004
8:15 pm
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workinonit
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So Tez, where you been? Sounds like much is happening for you. Me? I am going through the same shit. Relationships suck and I figure at this rate...I'll wind up in another cycle in say...two months?

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