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What works for you when you want something you cannot have in life?
August 1, 2008
8:02 pm
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Hi mzrella,

What you say is thought provoking to be sure. And yes, I was not talking about you but more of my own experience. This is a hard one. I guess for me when someoen used to say to me, "anger is a choice", I would tell them, "but YOU made me angry, by what you did or said". I used to think anyone who thought that feelings were a choice like "Choose to love"...'well, I couldn't love that person!! but I was supposed to because it made for a better relationship! I just couldn't fathom choosing something I didn't feel....which I ahve to say is also a real feeling, if I had chosen a better relationship for myself, then I wouldn't have been in that position to begin with.

I am not certain I am explaining this very well. Perhaps for me I have made many of my choices in life based upon how I 'felt' about them, then when it didn't work out I couldn't handle it, or beat myself up emotionally. Neither got me anywhere.

I believe that our physical ailments are a result of our emotional ailments, and our emotional ailments come from our choices. But this is just me.

You mentioned people "choosing to be miserable". I think some do, perhaps unintentionally, but then some misery is beyond a person's control. However I think it can be a matter of choice for some.

To be honest, I never thought I would even think this way. And maybe I am very wrong in my thinking, and maybe I am arrogant (I hope not though!) in my thinking. I will have to explore it more. I do like what you say though, it makes very good sense. Not everything is fixable, and not everything is easy. If you are familiar with my belief system, I believe in spiritual help when I am way beyond fixing things. I believe in God and knowing God is a way of life for me, which is why I see matters in a more positive perspective...life means more to me.

I didn't take what you said personally, it's ok, but I am going to think about it more! 🙂

August 1, 2008
8:43 pm
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Oh good- I was worried about ya ella. so came to check- will write more later, I've got a kid with wisdom teeth cut out and another with a stomach virus. My whole house smells like blood, puke, and green diarrhea....so I gotta go disinfect and mop and all that.

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August 1, 2008
10:01 pm
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on my way-

"I believe that our physical ailments are a result of our emotional ailments, and our emotional ailments come from our choices. But

this is just me."

Well, that's what you believe so I can't argue with "beliefs." But I think they reflect ignorance and lack of life experience,

rather than a positive outlook gleaned from wisdom. What you said is only true to a degree. Depression, for example, can cause a

number of problems... but depression itself is not even a "CHOICE" but an illness for thousands of people. Maybe you choose not to

believe this. I don't know. I know it to be fact, not just due to life experience, but due to education. I've suffered from mood

disorders since I was a child, early onset mood disorder brought on by major orthopedic surgery (which I guess was my fault,

right?). So not only did I, and others like me, have to deal with mental illness, but we have to deal with a society that persists on ignoring science and believing it's our fault. Great. Wonder why I feel alienated?

Well, I know I'm not going to educate anyone or change any minds here about that one. Certainly, if that is your "belief" you think I am suffering because of my own choice and that kind of invalidates anything I can say to you, now doesn't it?

August 1, 2008
10:02 pm
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Free-

Hope the little ones feel better.

-ella

August 1, 2008
10:11 pm
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oops grammar alert:

"Well, that's what you believe so I can't argue with "beliefs." But I think they reflect ignorance and lack of life experience,

rather than a positive outlook gleaned from wisdom."

Should read:

Well, that's what you believe so I can't argue with "beliefs." But I think THIS reflects ignorance and lack of life experience, rather than a positive outlook gleaned from wisdom.

Certainly I did not mean that it is ignorant to have any beliefs. Just think this one is a little blind of the facts.

August 1, 2008
11:22 pm
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MsGuided
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"I believe that our physical ailments are a result of our emotional ailments, and our emotional ailments come from our choices. But

this is just me."

Is that the secret? Hmm
Most people do not summon random disease or illness upon themselves ( leprosy, MS, altziemers, colds & flu, downs syndrome...being poisoned, etc)

There is a world of pathogens out there that look for a host, and it isn't due to summoning them with emotional weakness.

Sure, SOME illness can be brought on by stress or negative mental imaging, but to presume becoming sick is due to a bad attitude is just naive.

Don't worry Be Happy!?
What a frikken crock.

(((Mzrella)))

I don't know , or feel i can say much, I hardly know you, But boy i can relate to a lot of what you said.

To answer the threads question.

I derive my pleasure from nature, trying to remain as close and in tune to it as I can.

Having what i need, and a few items of aesthetic value are enough.
I like things produced by artisans, tradespeople and entrepeneurs..not mass produced shit.

Being or getting rich may be nice, but I certainly don't beat myself up for not having that.

If i want for some luxury, and can't have it, seeing a swallowtail flit by, my birdfeeder filled with Gold finches, or a waterfall, brings me back to reality.

I sure wouldn't mind having Sir Richard Branson as a friend tho!

August 2, 2008
9:07 pm
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MsGuided-

Hey thanks for understanding what you do. I love your screen name and it's dual nature- maybe you were "Misguided" when you signed on, but you've probably found some guidance along the way and become "Miss Guided." Okay, I'm sounding stupid, but I still like the name.

You and I share an appreciation of the folk aesthetic? This is not reflected in my tiny apartment which is not decorated at all. I need the blank space. But, I used to be an artist, (I say used to because now making the donuts has replaced making art). Nature creates her own relics and artifacts and I would love to collect them and decorate my enviornment with them. Now, my space is limited and I usually keep mostly functional items (I like them to be as simple as possible, there is an elegance to that).. It is nice when things are hand crafted.

Money makes living easier, that's for sure. Like yourself, I don't really feel like I need a lot. I dont' feel I need more than I have, but that's only because my needs are simple and I"ve been extremely fortunate to have them covered. It's luck and help from my generous family (luck again I guess). Though I'm happy at my income level, I do think money makes life easier- you can cut out the chores for example (send the laundry out all the time)... or when you are having a crisis... go on a trip... Money might not buy fulfillment, but it CAN buy a LITTLE happiness... but isn't it so great to think of all the stuff you DON"T want? I couldn't be bothered being responsible for any more possessions than I already have in my studio apartment! Imagine these people with their 5 houses like Oprah and Suze Orman. It just makes me tired. Being single and childless, I would give a lot away to charity I think. I feel pretty powerless as an individual, but it must be nice to be able to help out organizations on a grand scale.

-ella

August 3, 2008
3:58 am
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ella have you thought about getting licensed to do foster care?

I bet you'd be one of the rare few who would literally save a kid's life. Or two....or three...

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August 3, 2008
4:16 pm
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free-

Hi. For the same reason I cannot have kids of my own, lack of energy, I cannot have foster kids. Also, I don't think I could deal with that emotionally, and know things like when they go back to their "real" mom, etc. I don't have the temperment. Plus, my resources are enough for me, I live in a small studio apartment, but I cannot provide space for anyone else. I couldn't foster some kittens, much less a human child. That is part of the problem here. My limitations. Gotta learn to accept them somehow.

But it's a compliment that you think I'd be good at it. Thank you.

-e

August 3, 2008
5:27 pm
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Mzrella, I've been silently reading often since I 'left' the site, and much, if not MOST, of what you say resonates with me intensely. I feel I am so similar and identify closely with you. (I'm totally alone, in my flat, with wine, & thus emboldened to reply out of tipsy lonely desperation.)

But I seem to be 'avoidant' and becoming loth, if not afraid, to go out or meet people - even though I'm articulate & not 'shy' - but my depression seems to be somehow developing into self-inflicted social isolation or phobia.

I'm English, & we don't have a fix-it culture of lots of psych-everything. We stoically 'grin & bear it.' Or not. I'm v 'not' at the mo. Think I might be a bit bipolar.

Just lots of empathy & hugs.
((( Mzrella)))

And big hugs to Red Blonde too, who often expresses how I feel.

August 3, 2008
5:28 pm
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sorry, off topic.

I don't know. I comfort myself with poetry, music, walks by the sea or on the hills.

Or I sit alone & weep & drink.

Or delve into obsessive studying - retreat into my left brain.

Tough one.

August 4, 2008
12:35 am
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gazelle-

Hi. Sounds like if there was a place inbetween "grin and bear it" like England, and "don't worry be happy" America, I'd go there. Although, all this fix it stuff is leaving me quite disillusioned. I'm okay with the medical end of doing what you can for biochemical disorders, and for going to therapy when in crisis, but I don't know about making it a lifestyle. I'm really getting sick of it all. But then, I'm here now aren't I? So I need something.

Walks near the sea sound wonderful. And I used to read a lot more than I do, which is funny because now I work with books and children... but I feel dumbed down ironically, book wise because I don't read as much stuff with adult content. (My work stuff takes away from pleasure reading). REading is a great escape.

Just got back from walking my dog. Had to clean up her whole backside because she needs a haircut. Oh boy, I spend more on that dog's haircuts than I do on my own. I haven't been to salon since November.

Maybe I need to treat myself to a salon visit. I've been getting pedicures, but it would be nice to have someone else do my hair. I both die it and cut it myself because it is long enough to do that, but it does look better when someone else does it.

Thank you for writing.

have a good night,
ella

August 4, 2008
12:56 am
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Today I spent recovering from my weekend which I spend working my butt off and losing sleep. I hung out with my sister, started cleaning my bathroom (it's gonna take a few days) and I'm just lonely. I need to take a shower and go to bed. I come to aac when I'm lonely. When is that going to go away? I hate feeling lonely.

August 4, 2008
10:17 am
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MsGuided
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Gazelle said:
"I'm English, & we don't have a fix-it culture of lots of psych-everything. We stoically 'grin & bear it.' Or not. I'm v 'not' at the mo."

My partner and parents are English and they are the same.EESH.talk about avoidant.

MzRella said:
"Sounds like if there was a place inbetween "grin and bear it" like England, and "don't worry be happy" America,"

Yea.It's called Canada, or Holland!HA! J/K

Going for walks and scavenging for natural artifacts sounds good. I love gathering fossils from the limestone shelves that are part of my areas geography.

I wonder about our inbetween middle age world.

I see lots of the aged fighting their loneliness by joining senior clubs, getting into bowling, crafts, card playing, garden clubs, volunteering. It just seems more natural to hook up with others when retired. Many don't fret about it. Some do and isolate, fear change or reaching out and they are really sad...end up alone and victim to nursing home policies.

I don't want to end up like that!

How many times do i look at another being and say "I don't want to end up like that!"

If i allow myself to fall , I will!

I have a lot of old customers so it interests me how they are socially. It's like they accept their limitations, say to heck with it all, and keep social anyway. They help eachother out a LOT! I just love these old timers and their tenacity, will to live. They also use scheduling alot, and keep involved in various
activities.

For us it could mean joining a club ( baseball, volleyball, bowling, In Canada , where i am, we have ppublic Recreation centres where you can jion a team for casual sports)....something team oriented, and it can be done!

We are middle aged and it should be the same way.

The older sect don't seem to compete so much and judge and are less selfish emotionally.

It's like capitalism has damaged our generation? divide and conquer?

There ARE pockets of socialism thriving out there. Just have to look and work harder for it.

You guys, I have the same anti-social tendencies...I isolate, but I know it isn't any way to live. I just try to maintain the connections i made, try to get more, and remain open to breaking the negative patterns I surround myself with. I TRY not to feed all those voices in my head, that don't serve me well at all, and make them the focus.
My Dad is a depressive, and i am wired for it....But I try to fall between the behaviours of Tigger and Eeyore somewhere.( to choose an example)

Heck! I pretty much house most of the POOH characters in my head..I'm pretty facetted.....but EEyore is my trigger character.
If "Eeyore" is prominant I stay home ( usually it's my cycle that triggers it)..but I put duct tape on his mouth when out in public.....I hate seeing, or hearing people like that, it repels and i dislike it in myself.

That's part of it, beating ourselves up when we can't seem to get out of a depressive state..but it takes changed mental imaging, and ACTION to do that.

((((mzrella and gazelle)))))

AAC is a small fix for loneliness but i end up feeling lonelier if i don't maintain my social contacts at home.

That's the irony.

Don't give up, talk about it...and keep the body in motion. It helps!

Be Well!

August 4, 2008
10:44 am
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Mzrella -

Sorry that I have not been around the Libs side. Weekends are usually very busy for me, so I don't always have time to read everything.

I did want to acknowledge your questions to me from four days ago and respond to the best of my ability.

During the first 36 years of my life, I was exposed to so many different religions: Mainstream Chritianity (Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.) to Judaism; Hinduism & New Age to Roman Catholicism. And -- of course -- I was quite an intellectual, so my studies included astrology, the psychic realm, existentialism, atheism, agnosticism. You name it and I checked it out.

By the age of 36, I was burnt out and broken inside. Life had been HARD and I was so weary of struggling in every area: relationships, career, finances...EVERYTHING. I was very ill, too. Had inoperable fibroid tumors which caused me terrible hemorrhaging and pain.

Then, I had my miracle. While laying helplessly on the sofa one afternoon, bleeding and in terrible pain from the fibroids and unable to pick up (or really care for) my [then] toddler son, he clicked on the TV, after stealing the remote. I found myself listening to a female preacher who was talking about "Jesus" and how He had healed her from fibroid tumors...just like mine. That sort of grabbed my attention, sick as I was.

So, with no one around to make me feel embarrassed, I spoke out loud to Him. Challenged Him, actually. Said (in a not very respectful tone of voice - SMILE), "Ok, Jesus, if you really are Who You say You are, help me. I have nowhere else to turn."

Instantly, I felt a Presence enter that room and surround me. It was awesome. Warm. Comforting. I felt as if I were being given a Giant Hug that never stopped. And as if a heavy weight had been lifted from the shoulders of my Life. And suddenly, I KNEW that Jesus really was Who He had said He was. And that I would be OK from that day onward.

He healed my fibroids that day. Blew my doctor's mind away. (I have my "miracle" medically documented.) But -- more importantly -- He began healing my wounded heart. It took some time, but I can honestly say I am not the wounded, angry, empty woman who cried out to Him that day. Today, I have a life that is full and deeply rewarding. And my relationship with Him has grown to one of deep trust and intimacy. He is my Best Friend, my Lover and my Great Comfort, as well as my God.

As many of you know, I am an ordained minister. Most of my work is "non-traditional." I serve young women, leaving prostitution and drugs. Organize home gatherings for people who hate traditional church. Offer prayer and telephone support to anyone who needs a kind and listening ear. Serve as a volunteer at the local Healing Rooms (where anyone can walk in off the street and receive prayer for ANY need.)

And do I see miraculous answers to prayer? Yes. Constantly. Broken hearts mended. Shattered relationships restored. Finances reversed and salvaged. Bodies healed. Minds healed. Lives made worthwhile again. Because He really and truly, genuinely LOVES us and cares about us.

There is my story. There is alot more, but I only wanted to share my personal walk with Jesus. He is real and I will never again be alone or without comfort. And He has blessed me with a life of faith and hope. I am SO grateful to Him and hope to serve Him all the remaining days of this olde lady's life.

I hope my story gives you hope, Mzrella.

- Ma Strong

August 4, 2008
3:21 pm
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mzrella,

I hope I didn't hurt your feelings by what I said. And, I obviously may not have communicated what I meant. I don't think that all illnesses are from our own doing, but only some. My youngest son suffers from a major chemical imbalance so I do have empathy and sympathy and would never look at anyone and tell them they caused it themselves. His seems to be a genetic imbalance. Getting it under control has been a real challenge. He may also have another genetic illness, that makes him feel badly all of the time. So I don't think ALL illnesses are a result of what choices we make. I do think that some misery is optional, but I certainly do not believe that EVERYTHING is due to a choice we make. For ME, so far in my own life, my health is a direct result of my thoughts nd my choices. I believe this for myself.

August 4, 2008
6:22 pm
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Thanks for the kind support, ella & some-of MsGuided. It was hard to bow to your apparently 'buck up & get out of it'- style post. Obviously,I would if I could!

But I must say that when I actually took the step to admit that I think I'm 'avoidant', and referred to my suppressed cultural background as a possible contributary factor, the remark: "EESH, talk about avoidant" was v hurtful. It came across as dismissive & exasperated. I KNOW this - it hurts like hell!

I came to this American 'face up to everything, self-diagnose, get help' site to try & see if 'letting it all hang out' (or 'washing dirty linen in public', as the saying goes) might help me find a fresh perspective, and inspiration. But maybe I'm beyond help.

I'm not sporty or competitive, and not interested in 'socialism' as an anti-depressant. (Why would politics help?)Joining groups of people I've nothing in common with, for the sake of it, seems pointless. I suppose I long for empathetic, meaningful, in-depth conversations and shared learning. These are hard to find, even at uni. (Pragmatism, ego-based competition and money-&-status-chasing are part of the problem, imho.)

Does anyone remember Pink Floyd's wonderful Dark Side Of The Moon album? I quote: "Quiet desperation is the English way..." So true. And so hard to undo...

August 4, 2008
7:03 pm
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Gazelle

On the 4-Aug-08 you wrote:

"I suppose I long for empathetic, meaningful, in-depth conversations and shared learning."

And:

"It was hard to bow to your apparently 'buck up & get out of it'- style post. Obviously,I would if I could!"

Without researching through your previous posts, I am guessing that you feel very lonely? As a consequence of not being able to either meet someone who is right for you or to find an antidote for your loneliness, are you struggling to cope with depression?

Is this how it is for you?

I'm neither an American or an Englishman. I'm an old Australian guy with an empathetic ear to lend, and a willingness to share your journey's experiences, your strengths and your hopes, if that is your pleasure.

August 5, 2008
11:10 am
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gazelle

you wrote:
"It was hard to bow to your apparently 'buck up & get out of it'- style post. Obviously,I would if I could!"

Yes I am exasperated too, because my partners avoidant tendencies cause much pain, and block us from living better.

I never told you to buck up, That's not what i did at all..just discribed a stuggle, with moods, perceptions, and the choices made from living with depression. The struggle is MY OWN. I said "I"...not you.

You don't have to be sporty or competitive. Just be true to your path.

I suffer from major depression for many years, and all i did was outline some ( very few) of the comparisons i tend to make when looking for answers.

I can't count how many times i walked by a cafe window, people in the park playing and speaking to eachother, family picnics, an illuminated window revealing a dinner party and people laughing, wishing i could do the same..or just experience a little feeling of belonging.

I couldn't because "I got in my own way"

I became so depressed i wasn't able to function at all for a short time.

One book that was helpfull was "Breaking the Patterns of Depression".

The only way to do that ( stopping depressive thought patterns) is change my way of thinking, the inner dialog that keeps me from connecting with life. Stop being negative, accusatory, and mistrusting everyone. The book outlines the distorted negative perspective depression causes. I had to stop self loathing, loathing others, and somehow, shake off this dark cloud that enveloped me.

It also showed me how my state of mind was repellent to others and blocked recovery.

The only people who would engage with me at that time was my dysfunctional family, my therapists, and a few friends...it wasn't enough.

I didn't have a lot of healthy examples to identify with so i had to look outside my "group".

Looking at how others ( strangers) cope with lonliness, perhaps changing my perspective, is the only way I can try and rid myself of all the negative thought. A lot of it ingrained from childhood....so am i to stick to those "traditions"??

I take offense to you being offended by my stuggle to live a happier more productive life.

One thing i do know is my perspective ( as a depressive ) isn't healthy, is warped and will repel people if i constantly wallow, and then attack others when they say " lets play volleyball/tennis/horseshoes ( whatever) come and try"........I'll just say no I'm not ready TY!!!" Not " You "volleyball" players are all so shallow and rediculous"

Those "volleyball' players are enjoying life, may go home and feel depressed, or lacking, but at least try to shake themselves out of the malais for moments in there lives.

I want more of those MOMENTS!

Sometimes i turn to humour to cope.

If you want to use a negative culture based discription of yourself , and use it as a reason for the way you are, Then i pipe in , saying I am with an English man who has the same tendencies..I'm just echoing what you started, and you don't like that?

I am half way out of my depression, and it hurts to be with a partner who isn't working on their "issues".

I made a mistake with the "pockets of socialism" statement..I meant to say...."social pockets".

I choose to battle my anti-social tendencies and meet others half way, in certain situations. Giving in to depression is not my plan or goal. I want to have pockets of happiness, and feel connected to others. This is part of the cure! recognizing, and feeding our need to connect with others. I just want connection with an exclusive group, not adjust or try to fit with everyone....just my own little piece of ground, with like minded sorts. Yea, It's hard to find.

I'm going to keep trying and expanding my world aiming it towards better health.

You chose to attack me with my suggestions...instead of be gracious, recognize your triggers.....but no.

I meant harm?

I like Dark side of the Moon too. it hit me so deep inside on many levels.

Eclypse

All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy beg, borrow or steal
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say
All that you eat
Everyone you meet
All that you slight
Everyone you fight
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

This implies our purest existance is clouded by our own misperceptions and self inflicted pain.

The whole song is about personal perspective and how the world forms us, and how outside forces block our contentment.

What does the Moon represent to humans? So much power in symbols, and the interpretations we create for what surrounds us.

The struggle is to find a way to keep the pain from owning us completely and open our hearts to reality, rather than give in to negative perceptions and limitations.
The limitations and challenges the world throws our way, wether individually,culturally, famillially, or socially, and the persoanl choices we make thereafter?

Be Well!

August 5, 2008
11:10 am
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MsGuided
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gazelle

you wrote:
"It was hard to bow to your apparently 'buck up & get out of it'- style post. Obviously,I would if I could!"

Yes I am exasperated too, because my partners avoidant tendencies cause much pain, and block us from living better.

I never told you to buck up, That's not what i did at all..just discribed a stuggle, with moods, perceptions, and the choices made from living with depression. The struggle is MY OWN. I said "I"...not you.

You don't have to be sporty or competitive. Just be true to your path.

I suffer from major depression for many years, and all i did was outline some ( very few) of the comparisons i tend to make when looking for answers.

I can't count how many times i walked by a cafe window, people in the park playing and speaking to eachother, family picnics, an illuminated window revealing a dinner party and people laughing, wishing i could do the same..or just experience a little feeling of belonging.

I couldn't because "I got in my own way"

I became so depressed i wasn't able to function at all for a short time.

One book that was helpfull was "Breaking the Patterns of Depression".

The only way to do that ( stopping depressive thought patterns) is change my way of thinking, the inner dialog that keeps me from connecting with life. Stop being negative, accusatory, and mistrusting everyone. The book outlines the distorted negative perspective depression causes. I had to stop self loathing, loathing others, and somehow, shake off this dark cloud that enveloped me.

It also showed me how my state of mind was repellent to others and blocked recovery.

The only people who would engage with me at that time was my dysfunctional family, my therapists, and a few friends...it wasn't enough.

I didn't have a lot of healthy examples to identify with so i had to look outside my "group".

Looking at how others ( strangers) cope with lonliness, perhaps changing my perspective, is the only way I can try and rid myself of all the negative thought. A lot of it ingrained from childhood....so am i to stick to those "traditions"??

I take offense to you being offended by my stuggle to live a happier more productive life.

One thing i do know is my perspective ( as a depressive ) isn't healthy, is warped and will repel people if i constantly wallow, and then attack others when they say " lets play volleyball/tennis/horseshoes ( whatever) come and try"........I'll just say no I'm not ready TY!!!" Not " You "volleyball" players are all so shallow and rediculous"

Those "volleyball' players are enjoying life, may go home and feel depressed, or lacking, but at least try to shake themselves out of the malais for moments in there lives.

I want more of those MOMENTS!

Sometimes i turn to humour to cope.

If you want to use a negative culture based discription of yourself , and use it as a reason for the way you are, Then i pipe in , saying I am with an English man who has the same tendencies..I'm just echoing what you started, and you don't like that?

I am half way out of my depression, and it hurts to be with a partner who isn't working on their "issues".

I made a mistake with the "pockets of socialism" statement..I meant to say...."social pockets".

I choose to battle my anti-social tendencies and meet others half way, in certain situations. Giving in to depression is not my plan or goal. I want to have pockets of happiness, and feel connected to others. This is part of the cure! recognizing, and feeding our need to connect with others. I just want connection with an exclusive group, not adjust or try to fit with everyone....just my own little piece of ground, with like minded sorts. Yea, It's hard to find.

I'm going to keep trying and expanding my world aiming it towards better health.

You chose to attack me with my suggestions...instead of be gracious, recognize your triggers.....but no.

I meant harm?

I like Dark side of the Moon too. it hit me so deep inside on many levels.

Eclypse

All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy beg, borrow or steal
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say
All that you eat
Everyone you meet
All that you slight
Everyone you fight
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

This implies our purest existance is clouded by our own misperceptions and self inflicted pain.

The whole song is about personal perspective and how the world forms us, and how outside forces block our contentment.

What does the Moon represent to humans? So much power in symbols, and the interpretations we create for what surrounds us.

The struggle is to find a way to keep the pain from owning us completely and open our hearts to reality, rather than give in to negative perceptions and limitations.
The limitations and challenges the world throws our way, wether individually,culturally, famillially, or socially, and the persoanl choices we make thereafter?

Be Well!

August 5, 2008
3:00 pm
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gazelle
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Thank you, Tez. Yes, you've totally understood. Just that alone helps lift my mood and give me hope. Thanks for your kindness.

OK, MsGuided. I am duly beaten down.

I don't like you putting words into my mouth and attributing nasty thoughts to me that I'd never dreamed of.

You said: "I take offense to you being offended by my stuggle to live a happier more productive life." WHAT?! Wherever did that come from?!
I neither said nor implied any such thing of course.

I'm not willing to engage or defend myself from false accusations.
Good luck with your journey. Trying to join in posting here was a bad move.

August 5, 2008
6:39 pm
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MsGuided
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gazelle wrote:
"It came across as dismissive & exasperated."

That wasn't my intention and you felt it was my intention...thats' what i find offensive.You want to take offense rather than understand where I'm coming from.

It's easier to label me an offender?

Painting me as a bad guy, instead of looking within.

Read aliceinwonderlands post...it may help.

August 5, 2008
7:16 pm
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gazelle
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MsGuided - I DID 'look within'. And admitted my problem.

I did not 'take offense' or even use the word. You did, several times.

My posts were not all about you. I was trying to respond to Mzrella with my own stuff. I haven't 'labelled' or 'painted' you ANYTHING.

There's no point trying to communicate openly when feeling very low, with this sort of reaction.

Hope we all feel better soon. Goodbye now, and good luck.

August 5, 2008
7:37 pm
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WizardofAus
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Well for what it is worth, this is my formula for dealing with depression and overwhelming frustration with my life.

One of the toughest symptoms of codependency is a feeling that "I don't know what I want but this sure isn't it." This is a sign that we have lost sight of our dream. Codependents tend to know all about everybody elses dream but have forgotten all about theirs.

One of the bravest steps we can take in our recovery is to dare to want something even though we are convinced that we cannot have it; to keep our dream alive or to revive it. Beyond this I try to turn my dreams into goals. A goal is a dream with a timeline attached. And if you set a goal and it does not work out, set a different goal but do not let the dream die.

The most self defeating attitude that we can adopt is the belief that "if you change, I can be happy." This is a recipe for handing over the control of our happiness to someone else, which is at the root of our codependency; waiting for the addict to make us happy by giving up his/her addiction.

An awesome shift takes place when we take full responsibility for creating our own happiness without demanding that the rest of the world changes one iota. Yes, it often takes us through a dark night of the soul during which giving it all up seems to be the easier option, but what suddenly emerges is an inner urge to fulfill the potential of our dreams.

If you are unhappy with your lot in life, dare to dream. Believe in your dream and the energy and resources will appear. However, remember that God can do no more for us than He can do through us. So, say your prayers, and don't forget to move your feet.

Love and best wishes for the journey of your dreams.

August 6, 2008
6:05 pm
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MsGuided
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Gazelle.

see what happens when 2 depressives..what can happen, when they cross paths?

I choose to find the commonality, rather than focus on the mistakes in communication.

If you need a sensitive ear, are hyper sensitive, and came to this thread for comfort..I am sorry I got in the way.

MzRella, I apologize,( you haven't been back)

I still stick to what i wrote about negative thought patterns, trying to dismantle what we do within, that traps us in depression. Blame holds a huge role in the illness.

This, replacing negative thought with affirmative ones, is essential for cure or even partial releif. All emotions, or reactions are real, but we have to choose our reaction afterward.

Wiz made some great suggestions also. Ones I started to incorporate in the mid nineties, during my assention out of depression.

I wish you comfort and answers in your journey also.

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