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What is a man's 'sexual nature'?
December 21, 2006
11:12 pm
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bevdee
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Tez

Backatcha - you made me smile again!!

December 22, 2006
1:22 pm
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Hi MJ

"No kidding! Why do you think we find that creepy?"

Well, the reason I find the notion creepy is that in my family, the messages we were given about sex were:

1) No healthy, normal decent person, ever, under any circumstances, ever, ever, ever, voluntarily thinks about, talks about or has.

2) Do not ever, ever ask a question about sex. Ever. It is wrong to ask a question about sex.

2) Sadly, babies sometimes still happen. Ask your school teachers why-don't ask us.

December 22, 2006
1:23 pm
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Oops.

1) No healthy, normal decent person, ever, under any circumstances, ever, ever, ever, voluntarily thinks about, talks about or has. It. Sex. You know the s-e-x- thing.

December 22, 2006
2:03 pm
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mj
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Thanks for sharing why you think its creepy.

December 22, 2006
2:08 pm
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mj
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I don't know Tez, the thought of wearing someones shirt that was found with 3 sets of panties is kinda creepy. 🙂

When I was a child, we had a classmate who had a problem with his bladder. Every day like clockwork, the room would fill up with the smell of urine. We got use to it. Then one time I was playing at an event outside of school, and this same child started chasing me and wiped his bugery (mucuos) nose on me. I could never wear that sweater no matter how many times I sneaked it into the laundry to be cleaned. Some sights are just plain repulsive to me. I don't shop at second hand stores either.

December 23, 2006
5:07 pm
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mj

" the thought of wearing someones shirt that was found with 3 sets of panties is kinda creepy. 🙂

... I don't shop at second hand stores either."

Is it not in the eye of the beholder?

I guess my partner, being reared in poverty and having learned to not look a gift horse in the mouth in her earlier years, doesn't see things in the same way as some one raised and used to living in more affluent circumstances.

This humility of hers is one thing that I admire so much. She did draw the line at the obviously recently worn knickers, however. My red ear bears a glowing testimony to that. 🙂

She is presently washing the top as I write this. (8.06 am Sunday, Eastern Standard Time - east coast of Australia.)

December 24, 2006
2:53 pm
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mj
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I agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I am glad that Joy isn't bothered in the same way as I. I am glad that you find her humility admirable.

I wasn't raised affluent either. I use to wear hand me downs mainly. My mom loved shopping at second hand stores too.

When I was raising my own daughters single, I chose to buy them the finest clothes at a well known department store because of my feelings of not having nice clothes growing up. I use to get the charge card paid off in time for the next purchase. Even though you might assume differently, I worked my way through college while supporting two daughters without benefit of child support or family support. I feel like I have a lot of humility as well. I am sorry you took my feelings about creepy as a put down. It was not intended as such. Just sharing from my experience honestly.

Merry Christmas to you and your loved one!

December 24, 2006
4:55 pm
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mj.

"I am sorry you took my feelings about creepy as a put down. It was not intended as such."

I didn't take it that way either - no apologies necessary, truly.

"Just sharing from my experience honestly."

I appreciate that too. I try do much the same thing.

You have a nice chrissy break too.

December 31, 2006
8:27 am
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mj
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Thanks for sharing that with me Tez. I am really enjoying reading all your sharings today. Just wanted to tell you!

December 31, 2006
6:31 pm
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mj.

Thanks for your thanks.

It seems that the topic of this thread has died a natural death.

Perhaps man's sexual nature is not deep enough to discuss. Perhaps getting his end in is the sum total of it.

I suspect that evolution favored the reproduction of males with this characteristic.

Perhaps female sexuality encompasses the need for long term commitment from a male because the offspring of such committed males survived more often than those of men without that commitment. However, it seems that there is still a large percentage of males who presently are having difficulty with making that long term commitment to their sexual partners - at least in their younger years.

What do you think?

January 2, 2007
12:38 am
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mj
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I believe man's sexual nature is deep. I think that the same relationship controversies still keep reappearing, year after year after year. Nothing changes until something changes. 🙂 Happy New Year!

January 2, 2007
2:02 am
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Tez

you said

" However, it seems that there is still a large percentage of males who presently are having difficulty with making that long term commitment to their sexual partners - at least in their younger years. "

I agree Tez. If i look at my 2 brothers. The one is turning 30 this year and has been with his girlfriend for 6 years and still no talk of getting married.

My other brother is turning 37 in January and he eventually after being engaged 3 times, got engaged again. They bought property together and will be living together for 6 months to see if its going to work out. Then he might get married.

I think in there case my mother is a BIG issue. She still does my younger brothers laundry and he STILL eats at her place at least 4 times a week. He also buy most of the food. When she complained about the dishes he bought her a dishwasher. He needs to break away from her in order to become a man. She also works for both of them in the office.

AND EVERY WOMEN they got involved with my mother has something negative to say about them (and my sister also) I hate them for that. NOBODY will EVER be good enough for her boys. That has caused SOO much damage. She wants them for herself.

I got married when I was 21. My husband did not have a problem to commit. Lucky me. His abandonement issues from his mom caused him lots of pain. Luckily he sorted this out by going to therapy. He always needed to "pluck into the goodness" the therapist said. This we have managed to sort out.

If I think about it our relationships in life is one of the most important things. Relationship with our children, husband, church, work, friends. Its all about our ability to connect with others that matters.

January 2, 2007
2:09 am
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garfield9547
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MJ and Tez

The best for both of you in the new year. I have family over. Just one night, so have not had much time. Also going away for a couple of days.
Leaving Thursday.

Love
Garfield

January 2, 2007
4:26 pm
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mj
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Thanks for posting Garfield 🙂 Love to YOU

January 2, 2007
6:16 pm
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Garfield9547.

Thanks for your response of 2-Jan-07.

Talking about your brothers and their lack of commitment to a long term relationship you said:

"I think in there case my mother is a BIG issue."

My intuition tells me that generally speaking evolution has programmed men to want to 'spread their seed' and women to seek to have children in a secure environment.

If I am right then generally speaking women today would strongly prefer the commitment to a stable relationship from the men with whom they choose to have sex.

Men on the other hand value commitment from their women far less than their woman's willingness to 'come across' if and when these men want sex.

Our western, Judeo-Christian culture in the past dictated that premarital sex was a no-no and any woman who indulged was ostracized as being a Jezebel, a harlot, of no worth. No such repercussions seemed to come to an unfaithful man who just helplessly succumbed to the wiles of 'loose' women. He obviously was a bit of a stud to be admired by other men for his prowess and virility anyway.

Thus women were wary of giving in to a man too readily without firm assurances of his long term 'intentions'. A man, in trying to guarantee a continuity of supply of sex, was forced by both social pressures and sexual needs to commit to the institution of marriage.

Since women divorcees were similarly ostracized, women tended to stay married at any cost in order to protect her name, her up keep for herself and her children. Men, being men, strayed, but were easily forgiven for having done so by women out of the fear of not maintaining the security of the 'status quo'.

Then along came easy no blame divorce, the sexual revolution, and the cultural acceptability of extramarital sex, defacto marriages, women's liberation, equal opportunities and equal pay for women. No longer did the woman have to 'sing' for her and her children's supper. No longer did she have the stigma of being classed as a harlot when she indulged in premarital sex. Thus the supply of extramarital sex freed up. Contraception removed the fear of unwanted pregnancies. With all this went the need for a man to commit to a woman to get sex.

With the burgeoning costs of setting up a home, raising a family, educating the children through university, the prospects of having a financial millstone around one's neck for a very long time, the court's biased treatment of divorce settlements in the favor of women especially those with children, etc, etc, it is of little wonder that men are tending to demand their sexual cake and to eat it at the same time.

Why buy only one expensive book when you can borrow many from a library full of books at a very small cost? I think many young guys today would think this way.

Love? IMHO, women would like to think that this is the only reason for men to want a long term, committed relationship.

What the hell is the meaning of this word? Is romantic love infatuation, lust, a neurotic need to sexually recapture the 'paradise lost' or never had in infancy and early childhood?

If on a deeper level romantic love is losing a preoccupation with the self and widening one's ego boundaries to encompass the needs of others then, sadly that is not a common trend today. A wise man once wrote that one cannot love another unless one first loves the whole world. These days in society, the ego seems to be gaining in strength keeping those boundaries of self-hood tight and intact. Loving the world to the extent of widening the ego's boundaries to encompass all seems only to occur in the first flush of young love, in one's first 'real' love affair where the very touch of hands is electrifying. How infinitesimally short is that period of time.

I fear that the women's liberation movement in burning bras, loosening the cultural sanctions against extramarital sex and promiscuity, in gaining greater equality across the board for women in every department, have exacted a heavy price in terms of men's willingness to 'front up to the altar' of a committed relationship. The altar suggests sacrifice. In this case it is self-sacrifice - a price modern males are seemingly unwilling to make without what they see to be a good reason.

Yet the institution of marriage survives, albeit with an exceedingly high divorce rate. Perhaps only the threatened financial, social and emotional cost of divorce keeps many of the intact marriages together. I often wonder what percentages of surviving marriages are truly happy ones.

A cynical perspective? Perhaps it is but it is as things appears to be to me today.

January 2, 2007
7:47 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Men: We're kind of like Dancing Animals in Love

January 3, 2007
11:26 pm
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free
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hmmmm.....

Is it true that men think about doinking every 3 seconds?

free

January 3, 2007
11:36 pm
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bevdee
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probably- I do.

January 3, 2007
11:48 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Where did I hear...maybe 30 percent of people, men and women included, think about sex approximately 100% of the time.

January 3, 2007
11:51 pm
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bevdee
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Well.....I was joking, sort of. 100%? How could this be?

January 4, 2007
12:36 am
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Worried_Dad
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"it seems that there is still a large percentage of males who presently are having difficulty with making that long term commitment to their sexual partners..."

Of course that seems to be true about women as well.

January 4, 2007
3:13 am
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"30 percent of people, men and women included, think about sex approximately 100% of the time. "

okay- so we have sexual pirhannas in our midst.

I wonder what percentage of us are sexual camels.

free

January 4, 2007
5:24 pm
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I remember reading somewhere that Tibetan Buddhists believe that our desire for a body in order to have sex is what attracts us to the womb as a prerequisite for the development of a successful embryo.

If this is so no wonder sex plays such an important part in out lives.

January 4, 2007
11:01 pm
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Hi Tez-

i read this last post a few times.

could you rephrase that?

free

January 5, 2007
9:09 pm
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Certainly, Free.

Sexuality is inextricably woven into all the fabric of our lives. Only when I became truly celibate for about 18mths as a Raj Yogi many years ago did I see how true this is.

Having said that ... according to the Buddhists, we choose to be born.

That choice is craving driven - not a very free choice but a choice nonetheless.

That choice is strongly affected by our prior state of unconscious conditioning at the end of a previous lifetime.

That prior conditioning is carried through from death through as state of consciousness in between death and the subsequent birth. This 'realm' of existence is called the Bardo by Tibetan Buddhists.

This prior conditioning is in the alaya region of consciousness where all our karmic propensities are 'stored', retained and modified by subsequent intentionality underpinning our actions. It is often called the 'storehouse' consciousness. This is what survives death according to the Buddhists - not the person as we know them.

This storehouse consciousness state is said to be free to 'go whither it chooses' while in the Bardo, even into your bedroom wherein you are having sex!

Of course the only bedrooms likely to be visited would be those of people to whom there is a powerful karmic attraction to do so. Thus if you were firmly bonded to some person or persons, you may well feel a strong compulsion to be their child.

If this be the case then during the copulation of these two particular people in their bedroom, your alaya consciousness might interact with the whole physical process ensuring the success of one particular sperm in penetrating one particular egg to bring about conception of your future body. Your alaya consciousness then interacts with the whole process thereafter bringing about, amongst other things, the initial programming of the brain of your embryonic body.

Whilst the new life is not a replication of you as you would be at your death, it will carry the conditioned state of your 'alaya' consciousness at some stage into this new life form. This is why no baby is born whose mind is a 'tabla rasa' - a blank slate.

Since the desire to be sexual is strong in humans, in the Bardo, we yearn to be born again into a particular family group in order to interact with other family groups who are emmeshed by karmic bonds. This way we first of all get a body with which to act out sexual roles. Secondly, we ensure that we get to play out sexual roles in particular emmeshed family groups. For example the sexual role of father/ daughter is obviously different to father/son. I'm not talking about incest here - just the gender roles - uncles/nieces, aunts/nieces, aunts/nephews, on and on. The sex act itself is probably one of the most bond forming one there is; giving birth to a new life is another. If the appropriate karmic preprogramming exists in both parties, then such sexually caused bonding can be intense and strong. Sometimes terrible jealousy attests to this.

We yearn to enmesh ourselves in these sexual roles but without a body it is beyond achieving. So we take birth in the appropriate womb that will optimize our roles with as many people as our karma (consciousness preconditioning) dictates.

Thus man and women's sexual natures are initially preprogrammed from the very point of conception based upon prior conditioning of the storehouse consciousness amongst other interactive factors such as the storehouse consciousness of other people such as the parents. After birth interactions with subsequent environmental factors continue that programming. Thus the sexual preferences of a homosexual are not just simply a conscious choice made at puberty to be so.

As far as I (mis)understand it, this is the Tibetan Buddhist position on the matter of what transpires from death to birth, albeit minus a hell of a lot that I have left out.

I hope that expands on what I wrote sufficiently to the point of clarifying what I was trying to say.

If any Tibetan Buddhists, especially Bhikkus, Lamas and/or Rinpoches, are reading this I would very much appreciate being disabused of any or all of my misunderstandings in the above regard.

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