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What is a man's 'sexual nature'?
December 8, 2006
3:56 pm
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garfield9547
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from the site http://www.hite-research.com

What do the guys or girls on this site thinks???????? This was very interesting to me.

What is a man's 'sexual nature'?

S. Hite

Most men have been taught to think of their bodies as sexual tools in the harness of reproductive activity. The canon goes like this: 'You must get an erection, you must insert it into the vagina, and you must have an orgasm - but not too soon!'

Starting in the James Bond sixties, a man was thought odd if he did not want sex with a young (reproductive-age) woman at the drop of a hat: a 'real man' should always have a hard penis, 'have it ready', gun loaded. There is an assumption that 'men are sexual beasts with raging hormones', i.e., we are all 'natural creatures' underneath society's 'varnish' (veneer), and our sexual nature is biologically structured: male sexuality is especially 'understood' in terms of its being of 'animal or bestial nature'. According to this popular hypothesis, a 'man is a beast who can't help himself...certain things turn him on and he gets going and just can't stop, it's nature's way of making him deposit his seed here, there and everywhere...'

In recent years, have men become less focused on erection of the penis or 'drive for coitus' a la James Bond? Reconnected their sexuality and their emotions? Are most men still basically worried about 'how big' their erection is? Our culture's lessons to men have been so strong that few men are able to go past them, to create their own personal sexuality. We live in a culture that has taught us that sex is reproductive activity; that other activities (such as masturbation or oral sex with no coitus) are less valuable, even evil. In this scenario, men are focused on achieving erection - though many women make it clear that erection is not the key to their sexual satisfaction.

The fashionable drug Viagra, a 'miracle pill' that offers men an erection 'on demand', reinforces the idea that erection is the be-all and end-all of male sexuality - the only way a man can be sexual -- and also reinforces the belief that erection is mechanical, not really related to a relationship or emotions. The truth is that if a man does not have an erection, there may very well be a problem in his relationship or his situation, not in his penis. However, though emotions and erection are clearly connected, many men would rather believe anything else, i.e., 'Well, I guess when you get middle-aged, this is bound to happen.' This seems to mean that the penis is simply connected to a more-or-less self-generating set of hormones or body mechanisms that should operate, no matter what a man is (or is not) experiencing.

People have often made fun of the 'toys-for-boys' erection set idea of masculinity - wooden blocks boys place together to form buildings, atoms, etc. - joking about whether men would also use a wooden kit to build 'the erection' too? Others insist skyscrapers and pointed objects are 'obviously artists' representations of The Penis...' Such remarks give boys the impression, when they are growing up, that they have a foreign object between their legs - that the flesh on their body called 'the penis' is not a part of their overall 'being', not their 'self', but just a 'rude piece of meat', 'down there'. The epithet, 'He thinks with his penis' is further damaging, since it implies that when men have erections and desire sexual connection, they are not thinking but being 'stupid' or 'animalistic'' He's a 'jerk' is an epithet coming from ''jerk off', meaning someone who masturbates, i.e., 'plays with himself.'

The truth is that the penis is a delicate part of the male being, one that responds with exquisite sensitivity to every nuance of emotion a man can feel. However, the society has tried to insist that 'a real man' should 'get hard' at will, whenever he decides (in his brain?) it is 'appropriate'. But it is impossible to will an erection into being. Trying to do this has caused a great deal of psychological pain and self-hate in many men - and often in their partners, too, as both took 'lack' of erection as a sign of lack of love. Erections come and go in men, during sex and during sleep. A man who is kissing a loved one may stop, worrying, 'I can't get an erection now, so I'd better not keep on with this.' But in fact, he could continue being deeply involved physically with his partner. Many men stimulate themselves during sex, masturbate for a minute or two, to make sure their penis is hard at the very time they want it to be. This approach works perfectly for most men.

On the other hand, a man can enjoy 'sex' even without having an erection - though of course erection itself is pleasurable for men and no one wants to deny this. But since orgasm in women is generally not caused by 'penetration' or coitus, no matter how much a woman may enjoy the feelings (but not all women do), therefore there should be no pressure on a man to have an erection 'to please the woman', in most cases. The definition of sex has been focused on the reproductive act, to the detriment of other activities, because we have evolved from a culture that wanted to increase reproduction. Now, however, most of us use birth control. Our sexual acts have been channelled into too limited a form of expression; sex could be more interesting if it was not always focused on one scenario -- 'foreplay' followed by 'penetration' (insertion), the high point being 'fucking' (coitus).

Sex should be a varied individual language of ways to touch, caress and excite oneself and another person - whether that means stimulation by hand of both people, or sharing the excitement of a sexual fantasy, or oral sex. The fear of HIV has increased rather than decreased the focus on erection; many men only became more nervous having to face putting on a condom and not lose the erection or their sexual desire. Further new pressures added more complications: not only are men asked to use a condom, they are expected to provide clitoral stimulation to orgasm in many cases, and to be emotionally sensitive to their partner, not (for example) turning over and falling asleep immediately after their own orgasm. While some men breeze through the art of providing clitoral stimulation by hand or mouth to orgasm, others prefer to think the 'g-spot' inside the vagina is the answer to the changes in sexuality that women have been talking about.

Masturbation is the one time men express their sexuality without a focus on reproduction or coitus, and do not worry about erection. As one man puts it, 'I have more or less two sex lives, one with my wife and one with myself.' Many women in my research are shocked to learn that a man who is their regular partner also regularly masturbates: 'Why would he want to do that, when he can have sex with me anytime he wants?' Men in my research say they enjoy masturbation or having sex alone, because they can fantasize about whatever they want and there is no pressure on them to perform for another person. Men could enjoy their sexuality more if they would focus less on penetration during sex and more on expressing themselves sexually in whatever form their emotions take, while making space for their partner to do the same. No man should ever fear lack of erection, as he has only to reach down and touch himself.

December 8, 2006
7:05 pm
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mj
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I read the Hite Report back in the 90's. A very informative book.

I was wondering what your opinions were on this article since you posted it?

December 8, 2006
11:58 pm
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Matteo
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I think sexuality is understood by many in a very narrow way. Here is another view, which I think is much closer to what sexuality really is, and far from what is percieved to be.

Gott, M. (2005). Sexuality, Sexual Health and Ageing. Maidenhead, Berkshire, England: Open University Press

What is sexuality? Gott (2005) argues that
"sexuality does not have one discrete meaning. Rather, it is more appropriate to talk of multiple ‘sexualities’, an idea which opens the possibility that ‘sexuality’ can be thought about, experienced, and acted upon differently according to gender, class, ethnicity, physical ability, sexual orientation and preference, religion, region and, crucially, age." (p.13)

According to Gott (2005) Sexuality is “not the most natural thing about us (…) but rather socially constructed in complex ways” (p.79); understood that way, it is a combination of sexual behaviour, sexual identity, sensual activity and emotional intimacy and includes arrays of behaviours and responses from sexual acts aiming to achieve sexual pleasure, or wearing perfume, one’s sexual identity, to emotional intimacy or love. Sexuality understood that way negates the societal approach that “normal” sexuality is aimed for reproduction and equals sexual intercourse and is linked to youth and mental maturity, while older persons’ sexual acts not aimed at reproduction are perceived as deviant, their physical bodies are seen as unhealthy, fragile and dependent, and their adulthood and mental capacities are questioned. Proposed understanding of sexuality gives individuals greater freedom of choice how to engage in sexuality as well gives much room for a variety of self-perceptions as sexual being.

December 9, 2006
11:59 am
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garfield9547
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mj

I have been reading allot on men and their sexuality.

It is interesting for me as me and my husband struggled for years to find a balance sexualy. To know where the problems lie and to know why we had these problems.

"Our culture's lessons to men have been so strong that few men are able to go past them, to create their own personal sexuality. "

My husband had a hard time finding himself sexualy. He used sex for the wrong reasons. It made him feel more secure and whole if I can put it that way. All for the wrong reasons. Luckily I cannot say he was a sex addict at all, but sex was just too important for him and not so important for me.

3 times a week did it for him, while once or twice a week was fine for me. We had to find a balance and therapy helped us to sort things out.

Matteo

"According to Gott (2005) Sexuality is “not the most natural thing about us (…) but rather socially constructed in complex ways” (p.79); understood that way, it is a combination of sexual behaviour, sexual identity, sensual activity and emotional intimacy and includes arrays of behaviours and responses from sexual acts aiming to achieve sexual pleasure, or wearing perfume, one’s sexual identity, to emotional intimacy or love"

What I like about this method of thought is that it does not put anyone in a box. Everybody can fit in.

Thanks for the input

Garfield

December 10, 2006
9:36 am
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mj
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Thanks for sharing your personal information and your journey of discovery. I admire your willingness to work this through.

I read the Hite Report when I was married back in 89 to a different husband. We were having sexual problems. After we said, I do, He didn't anymore. It was really hard on my self esteem. I read anything and everything trying to understand the nature of men. I learned alot about myself as well.

Even though I blushed originally when I read this article posted her, I wanted to understand why you were posting. Thanks Garfield.

December 10, 2006
9:48 am
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garfield9547
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mj

Thanks for sharing as well. Yes, sex and intimacy is not always a easy subject to talk about.

But soo many people struggle with issues related to intimacy in marriages its just not true.

I think of my mother and father who never had a 'normal' sex life, they never knew how to be intimate and was not interested as they left the issue too long.

I think of many of my friends who also has there problems.

you said

" After we said, I do, He didn't anymore. It was really hard on my self esteem"

This must of been VERY hard on you emotionally. The feelings of being rejected etc. The same happened to my mother. My father would fall asleep by the tv. He was NEVER available to her emotionally or fisically. He changed jobs like once every couple of months etc.

On there honeymoon all the sh... started. He became overly sentitive and looked for reasons to pick a fight and withdraw himself from her. What a PIG. BASTARD I hate him for that. Then to his audience (the rest of the world) he was this wonderful person.

Well, before I get too involved...

Love

Garfield

December 11, 2006
7:27 am
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mj
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Garfield, I didn't even know anything about my parents and their sexual nature. I remember lying outside their locked door and knocking and knocking and being ignored. Later when I was 13 and my parents had divorced and both remarried, I saw contraception cream in my moms room.

Sex was never discussed in our home.

I am sorry that you have such strong feelings about your father. (((((Garfield))))))

My mother who is 75 just split from her 30 year relationship because she had finally had enough. She was venting one night over the phone with me and made a sexually comment about "he couldn't even get it up anymore."

I was shocked and embarrassed. I had the same kind of reaction, blush and silence.

I have always thought that talking about sexuality with anyone other than our partner was a little risque. Not sure if that's how you spell risque but I mean not lady like.

My daughter had an experience with her father in the nursing home a few weeks ago. She is 30. Her father is 50 soon. The nursing home called her and said her father was being inappropriate with the other patients. Turns out that he was trying to get his sexual needs met. My daughter was dying. She tried to be mature and professional but she admitted to her discomfort as she handled the situation. It turns out that a married woman with alzheimers was trying to seduce her father and he didn't think it was a good idea when he found out she was married. (Her father)(MY ex) has a head injury but is improving some since they have moved him to a different facility. The facility put him on a drug to lower his sex drive. I listened to all of this and was proud of my daughters ability to talk about all of this. I must admit, I didn't have much to say and giggled alot from my discomfort. I think I said, your father always had an insatiable sex drive. She had heard this from her step-mother in her youth. It made me think back a little. To him sex 3-4 times a day was normal.

Too much information 🙂

December 11, 2006
7:41 am
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1lost1
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At 39, I still can't listen to my mom's sex life. Still creeps me out!

😉 1L1

December 11, 2006
7:47 am
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No kidding! Why do you think we find that creepy? I never discussed mine with my daughters. It feels like its not right.

December 11, 2006
2:35 pm
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That's so typical for nursing homes! Sex drive, sexuality and sexual behaviour is considered as pathology and behavioural problem so yahoo! let’s put them on meds to lower their libido! And this man is only 50!

This is what I call creepy.

If for him having sex 3-4 times a day was normal – then it is normal for him. If for someone having sex once in a lifetime is normal – then it is normal for that person as well. None of them should be put on meds.

Why imagining a parent having sex is creepy for you? Because they are not making babies, so they shouldn’t be sexual? Because sex is “dirty” ? Because they shouldn’t be intimate with each other because they don’t need it? Because they are too old? When is the age when they are too old then? I really wonder, what makes it so creepy to you?

December 11, 2006
8:33 pm
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mj
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Matteo, Sex isn't creepy, just discussing it with a parent seems abnormal to me.

December 11, 2006
11:14 pm
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mj ~ I thought this is what we were talking about: discussing sex with parents. We are talking about adult parents (obviously) and adult children, here - right? Then why? Of course you don't have to answer if that doesn't make you feel comfortable.

December 11, 2006
11:42 pm
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I apprecitate Matteo broadening the question. For lots of people, "sexuality" is about "behavior leading to sexual arousal, intercourse, orgasm or procreation." It's just about who and what we are.

I read Shere Hite...well, before I perhaps outh to have. Stiil every lover I have ever had should mail her ten dollars.

The summary at the top of this thread does not seem exactly false to me, but...somehow not spun right?

Maybe we should talk to some men about this issue?

December 12, 2006
9:01 am
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mj
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Hey Matteo, You make good points. We are all Adults so maybe I could start acting like an Adult. Changing behaviors take practice. I am stretching just talking on this thread. I am ok. I get to feel whatever my feelings are. I sense anger coming from you. Why?

When I brought up my ex and the situation with he and his daughter, you have to understand that its not about me. I am trusting my daughter to take excellent care of her father. I don't know if you are familiar with their story but I can assure you that he is in a lot better place today because of his daughter's caring. If the nursing home would oust him if she refused to authorize him taking something so he is not putting his hand down ladies pants, which is a violation of their personal rights.... I didn't type the whole scenerio because I don't think it is my business. My daughter is my business in a certain sense but she is also an adult and I don't force my views on anyone. I can feel creepy about my mom who has never said boo hoo about sex and then at age 75 after she quits accepting unacceptable behavior from her significant, makes an angry comment which is sexual in nature... creepy but maybe more so uncomfortable. Since that is my first conversation with her about SEX then I think I am starting my journey of exploration of talking with parents about sex. It does take two for a conversation. So, Matteo, do you think that as an adult child, if your parents never talked to you about sex, it would feel uncomfortable the first time?

Hey WD, Happy Belated Birthday!
Garfield created this thread because she wanted to discuss this. I am willing even if it is difficult.

Last night my daughter called and had taken her father to the dentist. He had not been to a dentist for over 10 years before she became his guardian and moved him to her state. She had to take him to the restroom 5 different times in a hour. He even asked her to wipe his buttocks. Now, for a 30 year old, I say she has her father's best interests in heart and she even tells him to wash his hands. Now to me, that is creepy but necessary. Creepy is also Nursing Homes and having people we love in them suffering and no one giving a damn except an ex wife who really has no business in the matter except for compassion and love for a human being that fathered her children and loved her for a few short years. Sorry Garfield, for getting so off track, I guess I needed to get this off my chest. Sex and Intimacy go hand in hand, speaking as a woman. "It is better to have loved and lost then to never have loved at all. " Shakesphere

December 12, 2006
2:21 pm
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garfield9547
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mj

"Sex was never discussed in our home"

The same here mj.

mj you said

"I am sorry that you have such strong feelings about your father. (((((Garfield)))))) "

mj I was sorry for myself about what I felt about my father for too long. After I finished therapy after 2 and a half years the therapist told me that i have not finishe with my father. I tried my best and looked up on the internet what it was the therapist wanted for me to say. What a fool I was because I only fooled myself.

After 5 months everthing fell into place and I for the first time in my life saw my father for who he is. I stopped making excuses for him and my mother that is.

He is like a child that has NEVER grown up and I was like his parents always being there for him and taking care bc I thought it to be my duty.

He and my mother split after 36 years together and I must say they should of spit loooooong ago.

I am the child mj. I thought the father and mother takes care of the child. Not the other way around. I so wished for a mature mother and father to show me the way to life. instead I had to do it for them. I am turning 40 next year and things are changeing. I am changing things for myself. My father is 64 and has to take care of himself finacially and emotionally. And the same goes for my mother.

I am sooo free know. I had to disconnect myself from them.

you said

""he couldn't even get it up anymore." "

GOSH this could of been my mom speeking. I know exactly what you are saying here,

"My daughter had an experience with her father in the nursing home a few weeks ago. She is 30. Her father is 50 soon"

Was this your previous husband?

If you do not mind me asking how old is your mother know?

"The nursing home called her and said her father was being inappropriate with the other patients. Turns out that he was trying to get his sexual needs met"

mj who is this man? Do you know him?
I think you daughter needs support emotionally. If you were married to him you would know if this is true or not.

"Her father)(MY ex) has a head injury but is improving some since they have moved him to a different facility"

OK now I get it. you will surely know that what your daughter is telling you is the truth. Because you have been married to him. This must be a difficult situation for you. I would stand up for my daughter because this would mean standing up for the truth althought I think we sometimes do NOT want to know the truth.

"It turns out that a married woman with alzheimers was trying to seduce her father and he didn't think it was a good idea when he found out she was married"

What is your gut feeling when hearing this mj?

Was it a married women with alzheimers trying to seduce your ex? OR was it just the other way around?

Get waht I am trying to say? You know this man mj.

"The facility put him on a drug to lower his sex drive"

So what would your answer be mj. Was it he or the lady with alzheimers?

" I must admit, I didn't have much to say and giggled alot from my discomfort"

i am glad that you could open up on how you feel. This is difficult. To giggle is just like what a child or teen would do. Out children expect us to act like adults and we are just not there yet. No attack just a thought.

"To him sex 3-4 times a day was normal."

WELL this mand found somebody else to mother him. You were like a mother to him and NOTHING would of ever been ENOUGH. Its sad to see you daughter having to take up responsibilities (
GOSH could the word be sooo long?) that is not hers. I know it looks like your daughter is doing a GOOD job of taking care of her fahter, but is this right mj? What do you think?

Nobody else seems to care and why should this task be hers?

I feel like I have written a book like sdesigns said on another thread last weak.

I have NEVER in my life as part of acc written a thread this long mj.

I can associate with you and hope i have not said anything that is out of line.

Love

Garfield

December 12, 2006
3:18 pm
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1lost1
11-Dec-06

At 39, I still can't listen to my mom's sex life. Still creeps me out!

I am 39 now and always hated when my mother talkad or shall i say complained about her sex life. I mean what can I do about it?

mj

"I never discussed mine with my daughters. It feels like its not right. "

I think it is not right. A mother has to be a mother and not a friend. Friends are even reluctant to dicusse there sexlifes.

Matteo
11-Dec-06

"mj ~ I thought this is what we were talking about: discussing sex with parents"

Matteo I think that children should have an open door to discuss sex with there parents, but that a parents sex life is a private matter for the children.

Worried_Dad

"The summary at the top of this thread does not seem exactly false to me, but...somehow not spun right?

Maybe we should talk to some men about this issue? "

You are a man Worried_Dad so lets hear what you have to say.

Garfield

December 12, 2006
6:22 pm
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Shere Hite wrote:

"However, though emotions and erection are clearly connected, many men would rather believe anything else, i.e., 'Well, I guess when you get middle-aged, this is bound to happen.' This seems to mean that the penis is simply connected to a more-or-less self-generating set of hormones or body mechanisms that should operate, no matter what a man is (or is not) experiencing."

I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is true for all men or even men in general.

I remember years ago there was a case of sexual abuse wherein a group of female factory workers cornered a young male bible basher. To the great embarrassment and humiliation of the young evangelizing male factory worker, the women held him down and yanked his penis until he ejaculated. Since emotionally this situation would hardly be conducive to feelings of love in this young male, it seems to me that when it cames to getting an erection and ejaculating, his penis was on 'autopilot'. It could hardly be thought to have been connected to his emotions, unless of course fear and humiliation were a sexual 'turn on' for him.

Was this young fellow kinky and his religiosity a cover up perhaps?

The interesting thing was that the other males at the time thought the whole episode was funny!!! The repercussions were minor with the 'offending' women being given a stern, 'tongue in cheek' warning - as I remember it. Had the gender roles been reversed, all hell would have broken loose.

From another angle, how much emotional arousal, as opposed to sexual arousal, is required in a guy in a clinic's sperm donation cubicle, in order to make a guy to ejaculate?? Not much if any, I would think.

Whilst an emotional connectedness might help to heighten the quality of the male orgasm, I doubt that it is always an absolute necessity.

In the 1960's, Royal Australian Airforce guys at the RAAF base, Ubon, Thailand on pay night used go down to just outside the base gate to have a toothless lady give them 'velly cheep' blow jobs in the car park. I doubt that many were in love with anything else but the 'pleasurable' experience. 🙂

Perhaps guys then were so switched off to feeling their emotional arousals that it only seemed that their emotions were not involved in their ejaculation experience. Though I doubt that!

I think that women's emotions are more linked to their sex drive as evolutionary natural selection's way of ensuring the protection from a caring, strong male for the off-springs of a sexual relationship.

Whereas, as Hite hinted at, men were naturally selected by evolution as a result of their ability to spread their sperm far and wide, therein propagating their genes successfully.

Assuming that we do not destroy the planet, how will men and women evolve to behave sexually in the future?

December 12, 2006
9:59 pm
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Hi Garfield,

I am still not very good at mirroring in conversations. I was impressed with you trying to understand my situation and sharing your life experience as well. I appreciate you and your genuine efforts to understand.

I became pregnant at the age of 16 with this man, my now ex. I am now 49. He was 6 mos. younger than I. We both had had very hard childhoods. He lost his father to Leukemia when he was 15 and a brother in a mt. climbing accident, and a sister in a freak accident. We found each other when we were just out of Sophmore year in High School. We were both needing to be loved. He was a promising snow skier on the US ski team. His father was a Medical Doctor. He was a A student. He was the youngest in his family. After the death of his father, his mom depended on him alot for emotional support and he enjoyed the benefits of being spoiled financially. He drove a porsche at the age of 15. If you would of known him, he had so much talent, looks, smarts, and future. Unfortunately, he had lots of anger and resentment. We married secretly so he wouldn't be banned from the US Ski Team. His mom wanted me to move to CA to give my baby up for adoption so I wouldn't ruin his good name. I was living with my father and step-mother and I was kicked out because I would not let my step mother tell me lies about my best friend and she slapped me and told me to leave. I was on the street and My boyfriend found me a few days later at my job... and invited home. I loved my husband very much. It was a very rough 4 years. We created our second daughter and divorced because of his infidelities. I tried very hard to make this marriage work and I loved him very much. He had several affairs and didn't financially support me and did drugs and I finally had enough when he locked my daughters in their room so he could rape me after we separated. That was the end of our marriage. I never have regretted that choice.

This man, my ex-husband had many fine qualities along with his not so fine qualities. He went on to marry another woman and had 4 more children. I finally remarried 13 years later.

My youngest daughter loves her father very much. He wasn't a good father but he was the only father she had.

In 1995, he was hit by a car and almost killed. He has been in a rest home ever since. This summer, I and my current husband (#4) went to see him as I usually do when I am in that state visiting my other family. He was in the hospital in the ICU. They were letting him die. His sister told the hospital that would be his fathers wishes and hers. She never consulted anyone. I called my daughters and informed them of his condition. They immediately went to the hospital and demanded that he be put on antibiotics and because of their efforts his life was saved.

Need to go...

December 12, 2006
10:26 pm
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So to answer your questions, is he capable of violating other patients, I believe he is. He is like a child with his brain injury. His short term memory is not really good. You can tell him that his mom is dead, and the next day he is asking to go home. He lived with his mom before his mom was killed in a auto accident. She died in Jan. and he had his accident in July. He thinks she is still alive and when you tell him that she passed away, he grieves like he was first told. No recollection that he has been told continuously for the past 10 years.

You can't help but care about him. He is like a lost child.

My daughter, our youngest, loves her father. She didn't want him to be neglected any longer at the nursing home. She had him moved to her state and she is petitioning to be his guardian. He tells her he is so lucky. He feels safe with her. He trusts her. Is this too much responsibility? Its a lot of responsibility but she is willing to do this for her father. I admire her for caring and being so loving.

December 12, 2006
10:37 pm
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mj
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He has made leaps and bounds in his recovery. I believe that he is doing better than he has ever because she has overseen his care. He has been drastically taken off many medications that have made the nursing home care easier. He has violent tendencies and has slugged a caregiver in the face. He is showing improvement daily but he has a long way to go.

What is man's sexual nature? He constantly masturbates at the nursing home. They close the door to give him his privacy. He is at the beck and call of the staff. My daughter oversees their decisions and makes decisions based on her best judgement.

As long as she is willing and able, she will continue to do this. It is her gift. She is a very loveable, caring human being. I am extremely proud of her. I know God shined on me the day she was brought into my world. She is a blessing to me. I feel like the love her father and I had together produced two amazing individuals who have grown strong and separate. They are loved by me unconditionally. They have shown me that I am capable of doing anything I decide to do.

I am glad that I had this relationship with their father. I was truly blessed with my daughters. They are the jewels of my life.

December 13, 2006
5:14 pm
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mj

You wrote:

"I was truly blessed with my daughters. They are the jewels of my life."

You must have been a wonderful, loving and wise mother - that is to my mind beyond question.

December 13, 2006
6:42 pm
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mj
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Thank You for saying that Tez. I really put myself out there by sharing such a personal part of my world and your response made it all worth it. Love to YOU

I don't think of myself as a wonderful or wise mother. I did my best with where I was in life. I can genuinely say YES, I am Loving. There isn't any doubt in mind the love I have for them still and my 5 beautiful grandchildren.

December 14, 2006
9:23 am
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Matteo
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mj and garfield9547 ~

garfield, you’ve said: "Matteo I think that children should have an open door to discuss sex with there parents, but that a parents sex life is a private matter for the children."

I agree. My mother never spoke about sex when I was a child or a teen, like it never existed. Talking about it was a taboo. When she started talking about sex at age close to 70 I was pleasantly surprised, it didn’t creep me out. But then she talked in general terms and never reviled any “spicy” details from her sex life. I’m sure that would creep me out, just like it often creeps me out when people who are not so close to me volunteer that kind of information, without even asking if I want to hear it. And most of the times I don’t because I am simply not interested. Thank you Garfield for pointing out the difference.

mj ~ I am sorry for what happened to your ex. It must be hard to see him in that state. Your daughter is doing a great job with him, you should be really proud of her.

I still believe that nursing homes are very creepy places to be in, and a lot has to be done before people locked in there will be able to sustain some kind of dignity. So sad to be there at age 50 with no perspective of ever coming out.

December 14, 2006
2:39 pm
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Matteo, I agree that nursing homes aren't the greatest place to live. Sometimes there are not any other options and so you do your best in each given situation. Thank you for your caring post. It is hard to see him like this. At the hospital when he was supposedly dying, I held his hand and weeped while my husband stood by. I am so thrilled that he is beginning to enjoy life again. He doesn't really know what he is missing fully. He knows he is loved and to me that is really important. His last nursing home did a great job with him. The only reason he was moved was they began not being a great place. That's why it is so important to have regular visits so that our elders or disabled patients are being taken care of.

I apologize for getting this thread off topic Garfield. Life does kinda go around full circle now and then.

December 15, 2006
12:54 pm
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mj

"We were both needing to be loved."

These words send chills along my spine. Too true for so many of us on this site mj.

"After the death of his father, his mom depended on him alot for emotional support and he enjoyed the benefits of being spoiled financially."

Damm, why does this happen. A parent depending on a child for emotional support??????? This causes soo much damage to a child.

"he had lots of anger and resentment"

understandebly so. He lost his father and had to emotionally be there for his mother. This should of been the other way around.

"We married secretly so he wouldn't be banned from the US Ski Team. His mom wanted me to move to CA to give my baby up for adoption so I wouldn't ruin his good name. "

Did you secretly marry to avoid for him being banned from the US SKi team or because his mother did not want her his name being ruined?

This is strange mj. Would the US SKi team bann him if you got married? And shy?

This must of been terrible being pregnant and emotionally rejected by your mil. So she was affraid she was going to look "bad" What a bitch mj to want you to give your baby up for adoption.

"she slapped me and told me to leave. I was on the street and My boyfriend found me a few days later at my job... and invited home"

MIL was jeolous of you or what? Where was your mother at this stage? So your father chose his wife above his child.

"I tried very hard to make this marriage work and I loved him very much. He had several affairs and didn't financially support me and did drugs and I finally had enough when he locked my daughters in their room so he could rape me after we separated. That was the end of our marriage. I never have regretted that choice. "

GOSH MJ I am glad you left him. So when you left him he could not stand being abandoned and raped you. This after he abandoned you every time he cheated on you. Good lord. Why did he rape you? Was is maybe to get back at you? To feel better about himself?
I think he hates women, what do you think.

"My youngest daughter loves her father very much. He wasn't a good father but he was the only father she had. "

MJ this was me. I loved my father no matter what bc he was the only father I had. I cannot say that there is parts of me that does not love 'parts' of him, but I can see him as a whole piece of a human being now.

I am healing and your post have helped me even further on my journey.

Love

Garfield

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