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What does it mean to be open minded?
February 12, 2005
7:18 pm
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What does it mean to be open minded?

Does openmindedness mean that one is free to take in a differing belief and to consider it rationally without fear or favor?

Can the preconditioned mind be open to anything that conflicts with and threatens to 'shread' our preconditioned 'security blanket'?

Is courage to face one's own fears a prerequisite to being openminded?

What would it be like to be so emotionally secure in the core of our amygdala, that no thought could trigger the closedminded defence mechanisms that protects us from the retriggering of old fears of 'being wrong' or of finding out that long held and substantial beliefs are irrational and foolish?

Would the curtain that divides the conscious from the unconscious exist, if we were totally emotionally secure beyond any threat either physical, or mental?

What does it mean to be 'liberated' and totally free to make absolutely omniscient choices in life? Does 'liberation' in this context mean that this state is really a prerequistie for the 'will' to be truly 'free'?

Does openmindedness, as inferred above, lead to 'enlightenment' or confusion?

February 13, 2005
1:03 am
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To be open minded means to be non-judgemental.

February 13, 2005
1:32 pm
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Perhaps to allow other ideas in? Doesn't mean that we have to like them or to accept them do, does it?

So may I ask, Tez, what is your purpose in bantering around all these ideas everyone posts about prayer and their beliefs?

Do you STILL believe in God? or, a god?

Should you decide to answer me, please just keep it simple and direct. Thanks

February 13, 2005
11:45 pm
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Tez

Vitamin A is good for you no? You need it to survive. But Watch Out! Because too much is toxic.

As with everything, I believe that open-mindedness can be taken way out of proportion.

It is wonderful to love and accept people for who they are. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with what they do. That doesn’t mean I have to allow them to hurt others or myself in the process.

It is wonderful to debate ideas and thoughts. We are very fortunate to have freedom of speech, religion, assembly and press!

I am very thankful.

But if there are no absolutes, when does anything one thinks of, argues, challenges, etc. come to an end?

There will never be a resolution if there is no common ground.

Now, as long as there are absolutes, (There are, God has established them for us) there will be people who think that those who believe in those absolutes are being 'close-minded'.

Again, I return to my original point: It is wonderful to love and accept people for who they are. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with what they do. That doesn’t mean I have to allow them to hurt others or myself in the process.

~Amanda~

February 14, 2005
1:45 am
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On my way

On 13-Feb-05 you said:

"To be open minded means to be non-judgemental."

I like that. Put another way, it is seeing things as 'they really are' rather than in relation to some standard of 'right' and 'wrong', 'attractiveness' or 'repulsiveness', etc.

I suspect that most of us, most of the time do 'judge' or evaluate people, places and things in reference to what is perceived as what is attractive,beneficial, neutral or harmful and repulsive to us and to those about whom we care.

February 14, 2005
1:48 am
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Sewunique

You said:
"So may I ask, Tez, what is your purpose in bantering ..."

I have responded to your question on the "Prayer" thread; a thread, the theme of which is more relevant to your question.

February 14, 2005
2:17 am
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SweetAmanda

You said:

"It is wonderful to debate ideas and thoughts."

It is indeed. This is what Liberation Brew Threads are all about, I believe; exposing and challenging ideas, beliefs, philosophical, psychological and religious concepts etc.

And:

"But if there are no absolutes, when does anything one thinks of, argues, challenges, etc. come to an end?"

Perhaps there is such a thing as absolute truth, but if there is, I am convinced that it is beyond 'words' to describe or the intellect to delineate, define, analyse etc. However, that is not to imply throwing the intellectual baby out with the bath water.

The intellectual 'baby', that is analogous to the preconditioned human mind, still has immense value as a 'crap detector'. That is what educational institutions should be about - developing the intellectual powers of 'crap detection' or 'critical thinking' as an adjunct to the development of much higher powers.

And:

"There will never be a resolution if there is no common ground. "

In the sphere of the 'relative' truth of the preconditioned mind, this statement is true.

"(There are, God has established them for us) there will be people who think that those who believe in those absolutes are being 'close-minded'."

Since this is slightly off the theme of this thread, I'll deal with this statement on the prayer thread.

And:

"That doesn’t mean I have to allow them to hurt others or myself in the process."

Since it is our own interpretations that trigger our own emotions, we are the one who inflicts the hurt upon ourselves without realizing it. When we do realize this, then we are empowered to not "allow them to hurt" us "in the process." Otherwise we are victims of the self-delusion that the ideas, beliefs and perceptions of others are causing our pain. Remember the old adage: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me."

Accepting responsibility for the feelings of others is accepting a 'responsibility' without any power or control; the guaranteed prerequisite for stress, extreme discontent and unhappiness.

February 15, 2005
5:47 pm
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I think being open-minded is being creative, adventerous, brave, non judgmental.

It is also the ability to accept new ideas and integrating them into your life. At least sea if they work.

It is also not be afraid of what people might think as long as we have done the right thing.

February 15, 2005
6:26 pm
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Tez, you said:

"It is indeed. This is what Liberation Brew Threads are all about, I believe; exposing and challenging ideas, beliefs, philosophical, psychological and religious concepts etc."

So you enjoy playing devil's advocate, to challenge a discussion, to learn more and see how it goes or ends up, and maybe you do not really see the necessity to share your personal beliefs? And maybe you do not really disagree so much at all, but enjoy introducing a new line of philosophical thought? Just thought I would ask. Maybe I am starting to understand you better,,,or not..don't mean to be judgemental, trying to be 'open minded' here.

February 15, 2005
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Rasputin.

Yep! That too.

February 15, 2005
8:12 pm
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On my way.

You said:

"So you enjoy playing devil's advocate, to challenge a discussion, to learn more and see how it goes or ends up, and maybe you do not really see the necessity to share your personal beliefs?"

You've sprung me. 🙂 You little devil! Well ... almost anyway. My motivations are mixed and complex at times. But I'm sure that there is an element of truth in what you say.

And:

"And maybe you do not really disagree so much at all, but enjoy introducing a new line of philosophical thought?"

Well ... possibly new to this thread only. I doubt that any question that I could raise would be unique to me.

"I would ask. Maybe I am starting to understand you better,,,or not..don't mean to be judgmental, trying to be 'open minded' here."

Good for you, it is good to see you being open minded. Of course we all make many judgments every day, every time we choose to think, say, or do anything.

Moral judgments however are based upon some moral code. Per se, I see nothing wrong with that either. It is when we presume that our religiously based moral standard is the 'right' standard for everyone to live by - that is, standards that are based upon some religious belief rather than some universal code of ethics - that trouble ensues. For example whether it is morally right that all women should wear 'Moslem veils' or that 'sex outside of marriage' is wrong are examples of religiously based judgments.

I enjoy challenging the right of people to presume that everyone must follow their standard.

I try not to force 'my standards' on anyone. That is why I don't push my own beliefs forward as others do.

There is another reason that I don't like pushing my beliefs forward here, though have done so in the bpast when pushed to do so. This reason is that 'describing the indescribable' is by its very nature not presentable in the written or verbal form by any language. Now there is a tautology. 🙂

February 15, 2005
10:33 pm
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ok, well I am starting to like the human tangible side of you...sometimes I am not able to understand some of your threads, bt that is ok. HOWEVER, we will agree to disagree about Christianity, as to me it is not a religion, but very personal.

I keep trying to ask you, maybe you answered on the other thread I have not checked that one yet....would you mind telling how long ago you wrote your poem? Much of it is based in "Christian" thought and perspective.

February 18, 2005
12:09 am
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Hi all!!! It is so good to see this action filled liberation brew thread!!! I remember coming over to this side of the tracks in the beginning and there were three or four threads with a few posts. My how we have grown!!!

Or is this a sign that people are hanging around long enough to want the growth? Maybe getting past our self centered victimizations allows us to see we always had this choice and liberations is freeing after all!!!

Judgemental is something I never thought I was until I thought...I was. But then, my bias and opinions got stuck in the way of things until I realized...I was stuck with everyone else! only to discover judgement is something we all deserve.

Seeing myself for who I am is one of the most difficult tasks I've ever faced. Am I really facing it? When I am judged by another I know the truth if I can smile and move on but, when the hackles raise and my fangs are exposed boy oh boy do I have an issue to face. So judge away all ye sinners!!! You help me along my path!

February 18, 2005
9:08 pm
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on my way.

Regarding post of 15-Feb-05:

"... is not a religion, but very personal."

Yes, but when posting beliefs on a philosophical thread, one must expect challenges.

"....would you mind telling how long ago you wrote your poem?"

Years ago, not long after this site commenced operations. SC might have the year ... 1997 was it?

"Much of it is based in "Christian" thought and perspective." Perhaps that is the way it appears to you. We all inject our own interpretations on things that we read. I think I posed challenging questions to Christians in that poem in the venacular to which they could relate. If I wrote the poem for Hindus, I would have referred to Bhagavad Gita, Krishna and the Mahabharata War. If I had written it for Buddhists I would have used the venacular of the Heart and or Diamond Sutras - my favorites.

Sorry ... I was not a Christian in 1997? when I wrote that poem. I was liberated from Christianity in 1983 when I had a mystical experience. This statement is not to imply that I cannot find certain wheat within the chaff of the Christian teachings of today. I think Christ would disown much of these teachings ascribed to himself were he alive today in his old body as Jesus and able to do so.

February 18, 2005
9:12 pm
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Workinonit.

Gotta race away. Good to see your posting - I liked what I read. It has the ring of truth to it.

Catch yah later.

February 19, 2005
9:29 pm
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Thanks Tez, I says it as I sees it!!

I just happen to sees it a bit differently I guess.

February 22, 2005
4:30 pm
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eve
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I like Terry Pratchett's version:

He says that somebody is unique (his heroine who is a witch) in that she has "first sight". No, not second sight, first sight is important. It allows people to see what really is there, not what they think should be there.

And how often are we guilty of not really looking, because we have the picture already made up in our minds, before we open our eyes? Yes, of course this makes everyday life a lot easier, because you don't have to question everything over and over again. But - especially when in doubt - try to use "first sight!". You might actually find confusing evidence, new things to consider, ways to a solution that weren't visible before and lots of other things.

February 25, 2005
11:23 am
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ok.. i found the answer! It has something to do with brain surgery

February 25, 2005
11:50 am
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Keeping in mind that first impressions and gut reactions have some reaasonable validity.

February 25, 2005
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guest_guest.

On 25-Feb-05 you said:

"ok.. i found the answer! It has something to do with brain surgery"

Hehehe ... I appreciated your 'shining wit' even if others didn't. Or should that be 'whining shit'. 🙂

However, your posting does have a deeper implication. It does raise the question: Does the mind depend on the brain or the brain depend on the mind for its existence? Or are the two indivisible? Or are they both totally independent??

February 25, 2005
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Jeez Tez, make me think why don't you!!

I am not sure of this query.If a mind can be developed but brains grow and expand is there a difference in this? I'm thinking the mind has more to do with the heart thoughts where the brain analyzes the process.

Maybe? Maybe not. Doesn't much matter because if you are thinking some kind of growth is taking place. But, as eve stated, looking at the perspectives and examining your own perception is important to a well rounded understanding of any issue.

February 25, 2005
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being open minded is being led around by the whim of others, other's beliefs instead of establishing your own, a brain that "appears" to filter in much, but due to ability of our brains to only hold so much information, it only keeps and hold what it wants too....thus we do not have an open minded brain...but a close minded brain.

February 26, 2005
7:34 pm
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Workinonit

Speaking about mind, brain dependencies you said:

"Doesn't much matter because if you are thinking some kind of growth is taking place. ..."

On the surface it doesn't seem to matter. However, when confronted with senile decay and ultimately death, the issue of whether the mind and its attribute of awareness, can exist independent of the physical brain, becomes critical.

In the case of my aged father, for the last few years of his life he was a shell of his former self. His cognitive abilities had all but gone. Yet, as demonstrated by his eyes and other body language presentations, his emotional self was very much intact. How aware he was of his emotional arousals, that is, his feelings, I do not know. Did his 'mind' still know how he felt? Or was he just like an animal fighting for survival as his past conditioning dictated.

Do animals have 'minds'; that is, awareness of cognitions and emotions as well as other attributes of what we call 'mind'?

If mind is purely a function of the brain then death is the end of all awareness for that body. On the other hand if mind pre-existed the brain, then did the mind conspire with the biological bodily inheritance to preform and precondition the start of the brain at the point of conception?

Is the 'mind' that to which Christians so nebuluosly refer, when they speak of the soul?

Is 'awareness' and the 'content of awareness' the same thing or different?

These questions are not just intellectual wanking; they have great relevance for everyday living.

February 26, 2005
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Hi Tez, just popped in on this thread,what you wrote below says so much. It raises a very good question. My mother is 82 years old. For ahwile we thougth she had Alzheimer's, but an MRI showed tht as a result of mini-strokes over the last 30 years (can you believe that time span??) her brain has vascular dementia, but she exhibits symptoms of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. She is not in the latter stages, still functioning, but becomes very confused about her surroundings. Next year at this time though we do not know if she will recognize us though or not.

I have often wondered in these type of diseases, if they are inside there in their bodies still. But what a sad existence.

"In the case of my aged father, for the last few years of his life he was a shell of his former self. His cognitive abilities had all but gone. Yet, as demonstrated by his eyes and other body language presentations, his emotional self was very much intact. How aware he was of his emotional arousals, that is, his feelings, I do not know. Did his 'mind' still know how he felt? Or was he just like an animal fighting for survival as his past conditioning dictated."

February 26, 2005
8:18 pm
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on my way.

On 25-Feb-05 you said:

"being open minded is being led around by the whim of others, other's beliefs instead of establishing your own, ..."

This would be my definition of being closeminded. These are my reasons for making this statement: If my mind holds firmly to the belief that I haven't the knowledge, abilities, the capacity, etc to arrive at a belief that is my very own, that is one that is 'right' for me, then I will tend to closemindedly believe that which the majority of those in my 'safe' network wish me to believe. I will be fearful of having an opinion or constructing a belief of my own lest I be ridiculed and ostracized by my in group.

And you said:

"a brain that "appears" to filter in much,... "

Filters are part of previous conditioning. Theoretically a totally open minded person would filter in nothing , and examine everything without reference to any pre-established criteria. Such a person would be a tabla raza, a blank slate. No such person exists. Obviously a 'real' openminded person would have to have some internal reference from which to assess the value of what comes in unfiltered. The intellect and the use of reason would be the internal discrimination tool for such an open mind. That open mind would also have to hold the entrenched belief that it holds no 'belief' as being absolutely true but as being only relatively true for his/her present state of mind. Of course at some point along the way, the limitations of the intellect becomes apparent. But a tool's limitations, such as those of an optical microscope, don't warrant its discarding, especially when critically examining something at a more obtuse level. The electron microscope of meditation can be used later to further examine 'new data' at a 'finer' level.

And:

" but due to ability of our brains to only hold so much information, it only keeps and hold what it wants too...."

NDE'ers often relate seeing their whole lives flash before them at the point of death. They recount that every intimate little detail - distasteful, trivial or otherwise - is reviewed. Hypnosis can reveal a similar amount of recall. So it seems that some other 'mechanism'(mind?) has seemingly infinite storage capacity that even extends into many past lives beyond the existence of the current brain.

"... thus we do not have an open minded brain...but a close minded brain."

This is a conclusion that is based both upon agrueing from the particular to the general, and questionable logic.

But, whilst I don't agree with you, your response made me think deeply about the issue. Thank you for that.

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