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What do ya'll think about the situation recently in Eldorado, TX involving the compound/Church of LDS?
April 23, 2008
12:37 am
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truthBtold
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I dunno about any of you....but from what I've seen - the women are definitely act as if they have been brain-washed.

Soft-spoken voices. Hair-dos from the fricking fifties.

Just WHOSE fantacies do you think this might be subscibing to - given the fact that the men in their 50's and 60's "take on" wives of 15 and 16 years old...(perhaps younger?)

Pretty damn creepy - if you ask me.

Then - there is the visit from the pope.

(Perhaps this warrants a seperate thread.)

Getting back to the TX thing.....I am interested to see how this all shakes out.

To tell you the truth - almost seems to me as if I am witnessing the effects of brain-washing right before my very own eyes in listening to these "soft-spoken" women.

Creepy, Creepy, Icky.

April 23, 2008
2:00 pm
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on my way
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There was an interesting article on the internet this week about why they dress as they do and why their hair is worn as it is. It is all party of thier religion to keep themselves "unattractive to other men".

I can understand this in another context: If I had a daughter I would not want her dressing in a way that would 'advertise' herself, but on the other hand I would encourage her to look her best. Some women dress very loosely then wonder why they get into trouble type thing.

I guess the only thing I have to say about all of this is that it is 'religion', and man-made IMHO. If ya leave God out of religion ya have a mess! again..IMO.

April 23, 2008
2:46 pm
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MsGuided
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I think it's about time these women and children were emmancipated from their "breeding farm".
Imagine being uneducated, passed off at 14 or 15 to some old man as a 3rd, 4th...10th WIFE?? Then giving birth within a year??

It's not just the women there but the young males are being abused too.They have to put aside their marriages, and futures so the old males can have all the young women? Many of the teenage, and young twenty males are driven away.

The male leaders, and followers there are a bunch of sicko perverts IMO>!!

April 23, 2008
4:10 pm
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on my way
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Yes, that is the awful part of it all. And they made these rules themselves. It is so wrong.

April 23, 2008
5:47 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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the LDS church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. the church down in Texas is called the Fundamentalist church of latter-day saints. they are two separate sects.

April 24, 2008
1:18 pm
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truthBtold
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TT,

Thank you for making that distinction.

April 24, 2008
1:41 pm
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red blonde
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It is all a bunch of crap to me...to use the guise of religion to do something like this is just plain evil and sick! Instead of saying 'the Devil made me do it" are they now going to say 'God made me do this." ?

What the hell is wrong with some people these days? Is it in the water? In the air we breathe?

April 26, 2008
2:19 am
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on my way,

But in a way these women are dressing to advertise themselves for something that is seen by many as being equally as exploitive as dressing provocatively. They do not appear to have much choice in the matter.

Is it true that some of the children are physically handicapped due to birth defects from inbreeding? Or is that just rumor?

April 26, 2008
2:20 am
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I guess it depends on what one's definition of "in trouble" is.

April 27, 2008
3:58 pm
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garfield9547
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Doea anybody have the latest info on this story?

I cannot believe this is actually happening. I feel for these children, mothers and everybody that has been brainwashed to this extend.

This is truely horrible

April 27, 2008
5:34 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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Last I heard they were doing DNA samples to try to figure out who was related to whom and trying to find out the true ages of some of the girls. I can't believe someone so cruel and evil to keep people inside a compound and not let thme leave or get education or anything like that.
Of course those kds are terrified. they've brought up to believe that the world is cruel and evil and terrifying.

April 28, 2008
9:03 am
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garfield9547
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Why do you think thy would not know who is related to whom.? This is truely a freeky real life story.

April 28, 2008
7:27 pm
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mj
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When I look at the news casts showing these women grieving the loss of their children,it makes me damn mad. First, These woman probably were raised in this cult and know nothing different which is their Norm. Secondly, as woman and mothers, you can imagine having their children taken from them was a horrific loss. Thirdly, the children are traumatized by being taken from the only Normal life they know. It is a vicious circle of events.

The women and children are victimized twice in my opinion.

April 28, 2008
8:17 pm
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Anonymous
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I visited the church in SLC and visited the genealogy library, which I was told then was the best in the world. I was also told that their idea behind the library was/is to help people find anscestors that were mormons (I guess) and try to convince the people to join their denomination as their relatives...

That someone can think to open a library for such purposes... bad. But that followers have the means to get informed if not educated and are putting their children through premature marriage and child birth, among other things, like they were subhuman, slaves ... I find hard to believe... though not at all unbelievable.

Then brain washed? I dunno... Maybe too little coffee...

I was also told by a church senior that men married more than one woman bc many women became widows! Men died early for many reasons...

Well, that doesnt brain wash me, he he.

April 28, 2008
8:21 pm
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Anonymous
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TT,

I thought they were/are mórmons? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and the Fundamentalist church of latter-day saints?

April 28, 2008
8:24 pm
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Anonymous
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I dont like to sound ignorant but biased is worse. For the record, I agree with Ella:

People can pervert any faith to support their own agendas. It doesn't mean they understand the true meaning of their own religion.

The bold is mine 🙂

April 28, 2008
8:48 pm
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It's my understanding that the crimes committed are polygamy and taking on 15-16 year olds as wives.

Well. Look for a moment outside the commune.

My 15 year old daughter can legally marry if I as her legal guardian consent to it.

Women can have as many babies as they want with as many men as they want. As long as they are not married to one or more of the men at the same time.

Nobody bothers the Amish and they shut themselves off from modern world. How does anybody know the age of girls and boys who are marrying in the Amish community? How do we know their education is what we say it should be?

We don't. I guess those who follow this culture are just brainwashed.

the Indian (India) culture is alive and well in this country complete with pre-arranged marriages for daughters. Those who follow the culture are brainwashed I guess.

I see many a muslim woman walking around with the clothes on the head, I forget what it's called, covering herself nearly completely. In America. I guess that's brainwashing too.

I dunno.

I see a grave miscarriage of justice and trampling on constitutional rights in this situation.

If a 50 year old man had sex with a 15 or 16 year old girl and there wasn't a legal marriage because only one marriage at a time is legal, then he's guilty of having sex with a minor. So arrest him. Find out who he is and prosecute him.

Instead they took all the children under 18 away from their mothers and families without even knowing if any crime had been committed against them.

free

April 28, 2008
9:32 pm
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mj
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First of all, the Church of latter-day saint LDS or Mormons are not the same as the fundamental church of latter day saints. The LDS church quit practicing polygamy over a century ago. The temple is SLC is the Church of Latter day Saints, referred commonly as mormons. This needs to be understood. Its like comparing apples with oranges.

435 Children were removed. They discovered 51 girls were either at one time with child or currently with child. This is within the 435 children under the age of 18 taken out of their homes. They were taken out based on a phone call to the police that a girl was being abused by her husband. This is the basis for them taking everyone.

April 28, 2008
11:27 pm
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Why does the difference need to be understood?

Many girls in this country under the age of 18 are currently with child or have been so in their past. We don't take them from their homes.

I've called the police before when I was being abused by my husband. they took my husband out of the home, not I and my children. And they never separated me from my children.

free

April 29, 2008
12:26 am
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MsGuided
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Free..good point.....but you speak of individual cases.

At the Texas compound Ownership is under many men....to remove them all would have huge social and economic consequences that society isn't prepared to deal with. A larger ripple then removing women and children who are powerless in those arenas.

Personally, i would relish the upheaval that would happen from arresting and removing all the men who are involved in these marriages and instilling this form of slavery on women and kids.

These women and children are going to have huge problems adjusting.

Whats worse? removing them or leaving them there?

April 29, 2008
12:40 am
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There should definitely be more of a focus on the grown men who exploit these young girls, not a punishment of the girls. If the women are allowing it (call it brainwashing, or what you will, if the girl is underage, is the mother looking out for her best interest? I don't know).

It's interesting to me that the conservative dress does little to protect them ultimately from exploitation. A person could be complicit in that without being stupid. Covering women head to toe, anorexia, plastic surgery and a porn crazed culture, both reflect flipsides of a lopsided patriarchal culture. The issues of this one little group of people is deeper than what they are doing differently then us. Maybe we don't look closely enough at the things we do that are similar in the rest of our society. The fact that they dress differently, actually have social mores to condone it... only makes them SEEM worse than so many people who go unnoticed in our society everyday. Childhood is getting shorter and shorter. If we think that the fundamentalists have a corner on that we are fooling ourselves.

The question here is do these children have a CHOICE whether or not they want to marry or have sex with these men. I seriously doubt it. Would we question it if ACS stepped in and took a young teen away from a parent who was pimping out their children for social status? I doubt it. Just because these are "religious" folk, doesn't mean they deserve different treatment. Sure they deserve their rights, no more, no less than the rest of us. And so do their children.

-ella

-ella

April 29, 2008
12:07 pm
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mj
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This issue is personal to me. I grew up in the LDS church. Their principles conditioned my earlier life. I apply how some of the concepts hurt me and how others helped me. There are many trade offs.

What I see when I watch the news is humans. They are our equals. They are just trying to live life to the best of their abilities. Isn't that what we all are trying to do with the tools we have from life.

If you were one of these women who had just had their child taken, how would you feel?

If you were a child and been taken from your family, how would you feel?

Our constitutional rights guarantee our religious freedoms. Have their religious freedoms been taken from them?

It is easy for each one of us to say what another person should or must do but do we really know what truly exists from a little information.

Codependency puts the focus on others. Recovery puts the focus back on ourselves.

For me, I feel lots of sympathy for these woman and children. I know that I would be devastated if my child had been taken from me because of my religious beliefs. I am not condoning the religion. I am just asking you to put yourself into the shoes of another person who has been raised to believe that their values and beliefs are sacred.

Most wars are fought over differences of religious beliefs. That is one of the main reasons I have chosen to be spiritual instead of belonging to an organized religion. Each one of us gets to decide what we believe without fear or persecution. To me, I was horrified to see the grief of these mothers. The newscasters could not film the children because that they were given the privacy of being a minor.

I don't like hearing about abuse. I was physically abused as a child and I don't want any child to be abused. I am glad that this incident was investigated. Many cults exist just like the one in TX. I hope that this crisis shakes up the thinking of everyone. I know it has made me think about my upbringing and how most of my family is still members of the Church of Latter Day Saints. I know that they are good people just like most of us are. They don't practice polygamy. They dress modestly. They think that their church is the only one. That is their belief and I believe each one of us is entitled to search for our own beliefs. What happens is a very strong person influences others and others just go along to get along. Look at the horrific damages Hitler did to the Jews. He was protected and followed. Recently in our own time, we witnessed similiar damage in Iraq with a leader who wasn't just. It happens. Warren Jeffries is in jail now. Where does it leave the followers? War does shake things up but at what cost?

Thank you for an opportunity to voice some of my opinions. That is what is so wonderful about living today. We each get our opinions, right or wrong.

April 29, 2008
12:21 pm
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mj
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Here is an excellent link to educate yourself on this!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/.....cnnSTCText

April 29, 2008
9:32 pm
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Anonymous
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(((mj))) Thanks for the info! Looks like getting some help for the inept (and distorted Christian)parents is crucial for the well being of the kids. Separating children from their parents is to me the toughest ultimate imposed separation there is. Im praying the kids who have apt and able parents get back to them and the others get help.

April 29, 2008
11:26 pm
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MsG

this is an individual case too. The only difference is that these people lived in a commune. But so do the Amish, who don't even have phones to call 911 if they wanted to. their kids are being raised completely shut off from modern society as well.

Raiding this commune in my opinion was a form of facism.

Child Protective Services went in and took all these kids with no evidence of a crime even being committed. they went in and removed over 400 kids due to a phone call from ONE kid complaining of an abusive husband. Why not just arrest the abusive husband and then investigate any other concerns?

They ripped all these families apart.

If these families want to live apart from modern society that is their right.

We have no right to tell them they can't.

And we did.

free

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