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WD says: "Set Me Straight"
April 3, 2006
7:32 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hi Kathy,

I'm sorry that SC's message to you isn't coming across as loving and respectful to you. I interpreted it much differently. It must have taken the SC quite a while to create that message, as it was thoughtfully put together. The SC thought that you were important enough to warrant that time and care. I've read it through a few times, and I'm unable to see anything about the SC's post that is disrespectful to you.

I can hear in your response that you're frustrated that you're feeling singled out whereas others aren't, and maybe that doesn't feel fair to you. Whether it's fair or not, feedback given to anyone else doesn't have anything to do with your personal growth and healing, right? What anyone says to anyone else here doesn't mean a thing. In your own growth, feedback to *you* is all that's really important.

I hope that you'll be able to come back here eventually and interpret the feedback in a more positive light. But even if you choose not to come back, I do wish the best for you.

Hugs,
Ginger

April 3, 2006
8:17 pm
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taj64
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Dear Kathy, Im one of the people that you felt attacked you. I honestly was not on either side. I saw both sides. I have agreed with the Coordinator's comments. But I do ask you to come back. I very much enjoyed reading your responses. I received much more from you than you realized even though I did not totally agree with you on one issue. You did not deserve all this and you have a lot to offer. Much more than what has happened the past few weeks. Please do not look at these these weeks as your final decision, but look at all you have done overall. It far outweighs a out of line comment to go screw yourself. I for one have huge respect for standing up for yourself even when it was tough. And remember, even though you received a lot of heat for this, underneath it all, not one person said deragatory remark against your character. That still stands strong. Don't back down now. I am sure hurt it overpowering right now but underneath it all, we are still here to accept and receive. I hope you come back. love - TAJ

April 4, 2006
4:40 am
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Worried_Dad
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To me the most remarkable talent displayed by the SC on this site is restraint and neutrality and...warmth I guess. The ability to march into an explosive situation and sound...nonexplosive.

I wish I were better at that.

April 4, 2006
8:39 am
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I agree ^^ I wish I had that too. heh.

April 4, 2006
10:18 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Sew,
Ever loyal, ever faithful, I try to get back to you and not leave unanswered questions.
First, it’s ok that you missed out on some other action on other threads that inspired this one. Oops. We are still having a rich time of learning.
Next, I certainly did not mean to offend you or anyone by my use of strong language recently. I am not taking that language back or censoring myself, but please know that my intention was to illustrate, not offend.
The “diversion” I spoke of was: That you and I were talking about the definition, meaning, scope and spectrum of abuse. Specifically, we were trying to talk about to what extent someone saying “go screw yourself” might or might not constitute abuse. A related topic was my use of the phrase “abuse lite” and what in the world did I mean by that. How dare I use such a phrase and so forth.
Where you diverted our conversation was by making a big deal about how offended you were by my use of four letter words in the context of illustrating an abusive interaction. A simple “I am with SeekerW on your use of profanity, WD” would have sufficed to express your opinion on that matter, and we could have gotten back to the actual issue, which was about something other than “WD’s choice of words.”
So let’s get back to that one.
You wrote:
two people are arguing at work. Ralph and Alice. Alice tells Ralph "screw you Raplh!!!!" That is with exclamation marks.
Or quietly, smiling coyly says under her breath; "Ralph, go screw yourself, you annoy me."
Is one way or the other better? No.

I agree. In my opinion, both comments are equally harmless, innocuous, and unworthy of comment, particularly if uttered after enduring abuse.
You place that episode in a work environment. There is a big difference between “unprofessional” behavior—which is anything your boss says it is, and merely rude, un-genteel or politically incorrect behavior and “abusive” behavior.

You wrote:
Swearing is wrong
Says who?
In my opinion, swearing is “wrong” in the same sense that interracial marriage is “wrong,” or voting Democrat is “wrong,” or allowing a woman to appear in public without a veil covering her face is “wrong,” or that nudity is “wrong,” or that drinking beer is “wrong,” or that farting is “wrong.” It depends on the context, and it depends who you ask.
You wrote:
Can I then tell you to piss off because I am not happy with what you write?

Yes, Sew, you can say that. And I am sure that there are many times that I tempt some people to say that to me. Occasionally, I may even have it coming. Depending on the context, my feelings might be hurt or I might get angry, or feel offended. Sometimes I will understand why they said it.

And although I would probably enjoy it more if they instead said “WD, I implore you to urinate with great force such that you are propelled in a manner consistent with Newton’s third law with great haste from my vicinity,” if they snap “piss off, WD,” I am not about to make to a federal case out of it and try to convict them of being an “abuser.”

So now we come back to why I use the phrase “abuse lite” sometimes. There are behaviors that depending on their context may or may not be offensive to some people. Some people will react to certain behaviors with hurt feelings, or anger. There is a class of behaviors that may be offensive, may lead to hurt feelings, may be rude, socially and politically incorrect, vulgar, tasteless, insensitive, heartless….but which still are not actually abusive, particularly when not part of a pattern of misbehavior. I call some of those behaviors “abuse lite.” And so when I say that Desperate’s behavior seems like abuse-lite to me, what I mean to say is that in my opinion it is not really abusive at all.

To my mind, such situations call for understanding and forgiveness, not a scarlet (and capital) letter “A.”

April 4, 2006
5:56 pm
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Sonic
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You can only stretch an elastic band so much before it snaps!

April 4, 2006
6:39 pm
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Site coordinator.

You are an angel. With all the people who front up here carrying so much emotional baggage, what amazes me is that we don't have more flame wars than we do.

Perhaps, your guidelines and the way you handle the eruptions account for this low number of periodic outbreaks.

My partners youngest son Billy inexplicably died in his sleep two nights ago. My partner is understandably distraught. We await the Coroner's report to find out why Billy passed on. His mother, my partner Joy, had already bought and parcelled up his 32nd birthday present that was to have occurred in a fortnight's time.

Billy's untimely death sure puts things like this 'squabble' into perspective. It is a storm in a teacup by comparison to what might be just around the corner for any one of us.

We are all only here for a very short time. Yul Brunner once said that we have every reason to believe that we won't be here tomorrow and no reason to believe that we will.

Do we want to spend what little time we have in this life defending our precious egos from imaginary harm?

April 4, 2006
9:36 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Tez,

Good to hear from you.

Man that is just awful about Billy. I think that losing a child like that has got to be about the very worst thing imaginable.

And yes, it does put things into perspective.

April 4, 2006
9:51 pm
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tooscared
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I'm sorry to hear about Billy's death Tez. I can only imagine the heartache and grief that your partner is going through right now. It surely does put things into perspective around this site and in our own personal lives.

TS

April 5, 2006
6:06 am
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bonita1
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My deepest sympathy to your partner, Tez, and to you.

The sudden death of a child (no matter what the age) is devastating.

I am so sorry.

~~bonita

April 5, 2006
9:24 am
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Anonymous
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Tez,

My condolences to you and your partner. My thoughts are with you.

Seeker

April 5, 2006
10:50 am
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Hi Tez.

Thank you as always, for your centered and thoughtful perspectives... I too send my deepest condolances to you, Joy, and your families. A loss like this runs deep, and reminds me that the most important things for me is expressing to those most dear how precious they are and how much I appreciate them. I also like to remind & share with others the beauty & peacefulness that I find in nature. There is so much beauty, love & peace in people & in mother earth when we reach out.

I had just got off the phone with my dad & then my sister making plans to see them and telling them how much they mean to me... then I read this. I'm glad to know, that even without these kinds of sad reminders, that I am following this path. I haven't always. And I still don't always. But when I do, it brings me great joy, peace and energy.

Love, SC

April 5, 2006
5:17 pm
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Thanks all of you for your kindness.

The really sad thing is that I locked horns with Billy some 5 years ago because of what I saw as his his irresponsible and 'bludging' behavior towards his mother and I. He was most obscenely abusive to me in response to my stern fatherly admonitions. I held my tongue ... but shunned him as a result. About a year ago, I received a little Buddha statue from him as a birthday present. It was an ideal gift for me and it broke the ice. I thanked him. He, not I, found the humility to take the first step towards reconciliation.

Unfortunately we had insufficient time left to completely heal the relationship. Since I believe that death is not the end of Billy's conscious awareness but only body death, I have volunteered to meet the costs of his funeral as my final gesture of good will towards him.

My personal grief is largely that associated with emphasizing with what his mother is going through and my powerlessness to take that pain away. I also grieve the loss of opportunity to continue with reconciling what now seem like somewhat inconsequential differences.

On the local news here in Oz a woman is presently fighting for her life in intensive care. When she regains consciousness, she will face being told that her two children died in the car that she was driving when it crashed into the truck. Our grieving is absolutely dwarfed by comparison. Somehow seeing that others have much heavier crosses to bear helps reduce the self-pity a little and to focus on the needs of others at such times as this.

Life has yet again presented me with the opportunity to clearly see very interdependent we all are. What John Donne said about 'no man being an island' and about 'not asking for whom the bell tolls - for it tolls for me' rings very true at this point in my life.

April 5, 2006
5:32 pm
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lollipop3
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(((Tez))),

You are a good man. There is no doubt in my mind that in Billy's heart, evidenced by his thoughtful gift to you, that your relationship was healed.

I hope you and Billy's mother are able to find peace with this untimely tragedy.

My thougts are with you both.

Love,
Lolli

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