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WD Invites you...
April 13, 2005
10:25 pm
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Juanita
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WD -

You make me smile... I never had seen that thread. So, exhausted as I am, I am typing a few words (lets hope its a few, I tend to ramble) Your thread makes me wonder if you wondered 'what if' kind of thing...

With people, it's mostly 'in' or 'on the out-skirts' with me. Meaning, I keep most people at a safe, friendly distance away. I'm tired of being let down or hurt. Others who are 'in', are ones I shower love & affection to, without reservation. They are 'in' for life, whether they hurt me or not... strange, but yet it is me. I can just as soon put my arms around a male friend and offer him a back rub as I would a female friend & think nothing special about it. Why am I like this? Who knows - my very French upbringing was very little on verbal or touchy/feely love. Nothing was bad, you just knew you were loved because Dad came home every nite & Mom kept the house clean & dinner ready. You knew you were loved b/c they were around showing it in everything they did, even though I can count the number of times I've been told I'm loved by them on less than 2 hands. At any rate, I think nothing of showering those I care about with affection once 'in'. So, again, pardon if I over do this to you. But, I also think, you are a man who deserves a little cyber TLC. You've had more than enough of other 'stuff'... too much in fact.

So, perhaps I am making up for something I feel I missed in childhood, perhaps some of what you've missed too in my opinion.

I've also been told 'why wait until its too late?' to express goodness and love. Lord knows how it positively affects me to hear a good word. An unexpected hug from a surprise source can have the ability to make me cry. Considering how wonderful I feel when someone showers me with goodness or love, I am surprised it is not a rapant craze around the World to do this wonderful 'thing' with everyone. Who wouldn't get addicted to this joyous feeling? Naive of me, but me.

This is also why perhaps I feel or felt so beferet without loving feelings from my spouse, and why all that my husband said and suggested hit so hard. I was truthful when I said to him he almost killed me (in spirit).

Why am I drawn to you? Well, perhaps one definite thing is that you are a man. Nothing against the ladies who have suffered DV, but I am drawn to you. A man who has suffered too terribly much, at the hands of some vile female earthling type formations. It completely apalls me, astounds me, and leaves me speechless so awful I feel. I want to make up for their awfulness - ME - personally - as a female who cares. Not all women are that way. I here there are some pretty nice transvestites in your area too (dash of humor).

I'd love to show you the gentle, more realistic, side of 'us' females, even only in cyber text...

The fact that you are such a caring, compassionate man after everything you have gone thru speaks VOLUMES to me.

Your 'cyber' poem - well my gut reaction to that (and I don't mean to make you feel uncomfortable, so pardon if I do) ... you took time thinking about me, which flatters me. I am so tired, I will have to re-read it a few times, but that's ok.

Plain out simple - you are the essence of what qualities I looked for in a man way long ago when looking for a spouse. Nothing flirtatious about that - you have good qualities - period. That doesn't mean anything beyond that.

In my opinion, any woman would be lucky to have a man as caring as you.

Do I think 'what if we had met?' - sure, but not on any realistic terms ... Who knows? Perhaps you have a great big zit on the end of your nose which blows the whole romantic imagine to bits...(sorry if you do - I was just making up an example - they do have creams for that kind of stuff though.) This is the benefit of anonymousity and fantasy free reign! In all honesty - if I ever gave serious 'fantasy' to the whole WD meets Juanita thing - well, you've told me - you're a heck of a kisser which is intriguing, but I know I would probably be speechless not knowing what to say to you as you have admitted to being drawn to 'smart' women (ie - college education in the medical field, musically talented, and artistic). That, is a far cry from me. So, sorry, I can love you as a cyber friend, but I don't think a cyber marriage would work... perhaps can think or imagine an cyber kiss once in a blue moon (which of course would be good) - to bolster my own ego that another man 'cyber' or not may consider me attractive, but even I get uncomfortable with that once in a bit & voila - a zit, a sneeze, a cup of coffee knocked into my lap - something to break the spell.

Don't you see WD? You are worth it. I am not. You are more than 'enough' for any woman. I am not enough for my own man at times.

Selfishly - if I help you - I am also helping myself. If tiny me can do a wonderful thing... well then?? What would be the next feat I could tackle?

so much for short on words!
forgive my meds & lack of advance prep and thought....

hope some of it made sense

nite!

I just want you to know deep down that you are worth it, b/c you express your own self doubt at that sometimes. If I can give that knowledge to you, then I would feel great. Some lucky woman to have you would feel pretty damn great too!

Now, what does Juanita want for WD? I want you to have all that you desire and want out of life. I am not talking the 'frivilous' stuff - the geniune stuff... love, happiness, I'm sure you know the rest so I won't type it.

As much as I love chatting with you, part of me wants you OUT from behind this computer and meeting a special someone who thrills you. I don't want you to be afraid or nervous about that either. I know you probably are, but if I could eradicate that I would.

Blah - I'm rambling. Sorry. I hope I'm making sense - not to lay any blame, but these med's have me tripping!

April 14, 2005
8:20 am
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Juanita
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oh yes - and to clarify some of why I feel I am not good enough -

I have become, partly, the kind of woman I never thought I'd be... Tempted, seriously tempted... (that plus the knowledge my spouse ok'd that just continues to weird me out). I am disappointed in myself. I know that if my 'friend' would have been interested in more, I would have welcomed that. THAT is never the way I imagined myself to be. THAT is a disapppointment. However, THAT is still the way I feel about him. I wish I could erase the past 2 yrs in some ways, but yet, I don't want to give up the memories of how someone made me feel so special and so vibrant for a time. So, lucky me, my torment... my balancing act.

April 14, 2005
8:37 am
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raissa
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Juanita,

We have all at one point or another created our own little world were all is pink and pretty, It helps especially when you are lonely and in need of love.
I for years had a whole different life in my head He had a name(Daniel), He did for me what my husband could not in fact he was a better husband, however real life is much more exciting in my opinion!!!
Worried dad is a exceptional human being at least thats what I get from reading his post I also have found myself drawn to him it must be the fact that like you mentioned he has gone throught abuse on the hands of another female and we in return feel the need to make up for that.
I guess what I am getting at is that you are not alone with your feelings I think they are normal at least to me.

April 14, 2005
6:56 pm
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Juanita
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Raissa - thank you for your kind words. I have always held myself to a high standard (so to speak), and I just kill myself thinking 'how far' I've fallen, how weak I became & to some degree, still am .... That my husband encouraged it, in fact started it ... and more importantly, I let myself fall for a man who doesn't care, didn't care (was smart enough to get away), and basically fell for a fantasy.

I am used to being the sturdy, reliable, practical one... not the emotionally f*cked one. And, it doesn't bother hubby much (that I know of). He would still encourage me to pursue another man so he could watch. That's twisted. And that's probably one more reason I'm drawn to WD. He is a man I can safely shower some love over to. My spouse can't check him out, can't invite him over, can't size him up, can't ask if we've kissed or more. I can give him some of the emotions I want to give, and be safe behind my computer screen that hubby will never encourage an affair here.

From the sounds of it, you were lucky Daniel was around. You got to experience some excitement and joy apparently. Probably had your hell days too. I never got that far and, disapppointingly & astoundingly, miss that and to some degree resent that. I resent my spouse gave me the opportunity, I resent the other man didn't accept, and I resent myself for both of that, plus my own weakening. Certainly not the talk of a good wife, or at least to me its not. It is honest though. My own weaknesses makes me feel less of a person too.... I am not the woman I dreamed I would be.

I just wonder where my path will lead me in the future, and how happy a path it will be.

I have to run to class - nite -
thanks for the supportive words though

April 14, 2005
9:13 pm
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raissa
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Dear juanita,

I am sorry you have basically all the dreams little girls dream about taken away,I am sorry you feel less of a person because of the path life has lead you.
But you know what? You are alive and everyday gives a new chance to start all over again and you are not a lesser person because of your choices only if you give up on life only then you have given up on yourself.
Dream and dream big girl! dont settle for less than you deserve.

April 14, 2005
11:16 pm
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Juanita
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Raissa -

I married my dream, and for many years it was wonderful. Being married means being committed.

Now, the dream appears to be changing. So am I.

Do you know what I want to accomplish now? All the things on my list of 'dreams' seem more aggressive or assertive or for lack of a better word, violent.

I dream of learning some form of martial arts - karate, Tae Kwon Do, Ti Chi (forgive me if I misspell). I want to go to a race track and hire some one to teach me how to handle one of those damn cars and feel the speed of the machine. I want to learn not just Belly Dancing, but the Hula, and native American Indian dancing. I want to learn how to pound on the drums be them bongo or what you see in a band. I debated about guitar or keyboard, but there doesn't seem to be enough pounding in there for me.

Everything I seem to be drawn to over the past year or so is pounding, throbbing, beating, LOUD....

Ha, years past it was quilting, reading, stitching, cooking, baking, and liked mood music that you would relax to... meditate to.

I think I have some underlying anger I am just realizing about that I want to get out in a creative way.

Ever changing ride, this roller coaster of mine. Didn't think it was a coaster when I boarded it, but wow, after that hair pin turn, I've hit a few hills. That's all right though - just give me more power & I'll deal with it all. (I must be in a good mood tonite - just got back from Dance Class & we shimmied all nite long & I'm SORE)

Got to hit the sack - Nite...

(((WD)))) - 😉 Juanita

April 15, 2005
9:11 am
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Worried_Dad
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Juanita--African Dance and Drumming. Boom, boom boom!

April 15, 2005
10:51 am
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raissa
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Everything you have describe that you want to do is about"CONTROL",
I mean if you could do all those lets call them powerful things then maybe the rest would be easy.
Is like being able to ride a motorcycle the freedom you feel from being able to control the machine I never done it but my husband claims is freedom so I guess it most be the same feeling you are craving.
Anger does not really seem the reasoning behind it!! Take control of at least one of those things and maybe then you will find the answer (:

April 15, 2005
3:11 pm
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Juanita
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WD

do I have your interest now??

;-}

such a wild lady at heart!

Can I ask, what motivation made you write your cyber poem? When you say you were thinking of me - could you clarify? Am I dense? Are you a tiny bit soft on me? (I'm in a tiny teasing mood right now - forgive if I'm flirting)

April 15, 2005
10:58 pm
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Juanita
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Never mind WD - how impertinent of me to ask! I am just flattered you thought of me - not used to that! Natural reaction is to want to analyze that, so I do apologize. It is hard for me to imagine someone created something thinking of me... You caught me by surprise. You made me smile.... Thank you for that (for now that I am awake, that was quite the poem! "rods & cones" ... oh my, my heart twitters.) Why, oh, why, did I miss it back then?? A thousand apologies from wherever I was at! My hand rests gently on my forehead as I lounge prettily against my fainting chair.... wires everywhere, hard drives, disc drives scattered over the floor, zip clip memory cards, DVD burners, computer manuals lay at my feet ...

"Cyber-gametes"? Oh, how I do blush!

WHERE are those keys to my flying saucer?? And my map....? hmmm... credit card too to fill up that gas tank. I swear, the thing is not as fuel efficient as it used to be! Jumper cables too....

WD - if there is any chance of you and I meeting in the NEXT life time... I shall breathlessly await you down at the Cyber Cafe on the corner of 1st and 11,185th... You shall have no problem recognizing my pink blushing cones (oops TONES!), nor shiny green eyes peering out from under dark lashes ... I shall be dressed perhaps a teeny bit old fashioned with that neon sign hat perched daintly upon my head which will read "WD, over here!"

WD - I do believe YOU actually MAY have flirted with me. I am in shock & still pink. You made my day ...

April 16, 2005
1:42 am
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Worried_Dad
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Se Juanita, that poem was actually intended to kind of paraody the idea of online romantic flirtations. See, becuae online people only manifest as lines of text on a computer monitor, it isn't real..

April 16, 2005
10:45 am
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Juanita
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ah, gee wiz - grand illusions shot down again!

I guess there is always Tim Conway...

There was not enough humor peppered in there huh?

Oh well, I am out of here for a bit I think.

April 16, 2005
10:25 pm
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raissa
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Dear juanita,

You do love to tease WD dont you?
Maybe you should be a writter(comedy) You do have a great sense of humor (:
anyways were is WD anyways???
I do love to get his advise he is very down to the point dont you think?

April 17, 2005
4:36 pm
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Juanita
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Raissa -

I love to be playful, it makes me feel alive. I have been too sad too long & am tired of it. When I attempt to spark to life & it's well... not as 'lively' as I'd hoped, or TAKEN as I'd hoped, that's a downer too. To me, to give joy and love and happiness, that's what it's all about. (I'd love to have the gift and ability to write for people and make them happy... I just don't think I'm that good.) For now, I think I'll just chill for a bit. I find I am tired of attempting to spark, and doing soul searching is tiring work.

Coming here is good in a way, and not in others. Coming here, I can't forget why I came in the beginning. If I leave for a bit, I can ignore or explore certain aspects of my life and get on. I keep hoping time will heal all wounds and I'll just move on. But, as with wounds, scars form and those take a lot longer to heal. I don't want to examine certain aspects of my life, afraid of what I may find.

In trying to help WD, I can forget about myself for a bit. But, he too has his own scars to heal. The realization came to me only recently that as much as I'd like to heal those for him, I can't. And in comparision to my woes, I can only imagine his scars. I'm not even sure at this point if I help. (Realizing that my best intentions are not helping is depressing too.) As much as I'd like for my inner playfulness to spark the same in him - he may not want it, nor be ready for it, nor may he ever be.

I like WD very much. He possesses some great qualities. I wish that perhaps my affect on him would enable him to get out there and meet the right woman... The one to marry and have kids with and live happily ever after with. I want him to have everything out of life that he wants. If the events of his past stop him from that, then ... that's heartbreakingly sad. In my simplest of words, he's being robbed, cheated, and beaten over and over again. We all have paths to travel. WD can still be an active participant against DV - more power to him - I think he's wonderful to help people as he does - but I'd love to see him have more. That is IF he wants more. My 'dream' for him may not be his own. He's been here longer than I - why would I think I have the power, capability, ability to help? Surely, I am not that special ... to think that I could help would imply I have an ego, and an ego would mean I think I'm special .... I'm not.

I have to work on my own life/dreams don't I? If I have to work on my own dreams - how can I help someone else work on theirs?

The little mouse might have pulled the torn from the Lion's paw and helped him - but that is only because the Lion let him.

My head is throbbing, time to go. I came back here against my best intentions today. Stupid curious cat syndrome... I still need a break away I think.

Thanks for your positive words Raissa - sorry I was not able to help you like wise in some way.

April 17, 2005
8:58 pm
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Juanita

I once had a college psych professor say that people are only special to those that love them, like family or very close friends. He was that in reality, no one is "special". At the time, I thought it made sense. But as I grow older and a little more experienced, I have come to realize that everyone IS special. They bring with them unique experiences and things that have something to offer to everyone. Peole are all the same but different. That's why we can relate to each other so well. we bring our uniqueness to the same experiences that everyone has. In other words, you and I may experience the same thing, but it is our uniqueness that makes your experience special and different and worthy of my consideration.

Too many words. I started out knowing waht I meant to say, then I think I bungled it with words.

Anyhoo, I now disagree with that professor's idea. Everyone is special. Unique. Everyone IS special to me, to you, to someone they may never meet.

And your dreams for yourself. It is the fact that you are working on your dreams that helps us work on ours. We feel comfort, encouragement, by seeing you work on your life. That is how you help someone. Not by telling them how to do it, but by doing it yourself and allowing us the insights that you discovered on that journey. We may not use them, but they help us in our own personal journey.

Ahhh. I was all over the place! I only hope that you can read between the lines and somehow fathom what I am trying to say.

Gully

April 18, 2005
8:05 am
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raissa
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Juanita,

I think that WD appreciates your sense of humor, But we dont know how deep is wounds are, Or what kind of pain this person(female) in his life may have caused. With that being said I think WD would be very happy if You start taking care of your dreams,hopes. Running to try ti fix WD life is only a way to avoid your own Problems and that seems out of character for you( I think you are very strong). If I am out of line please feel free to let me know!!!!

April 19, 2005
1:04 pm
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Juanita
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thank you for your words above.

Everyone is unique, Gully. I don't think that necessitates 'special'. Special is, as special does. To me, being 'special' means doing a good, being loved, contributing. If we can't help one another, what good are we? Everyone is special to someone, somewhere; but not to everyone, everywhere. Make any sense?

Me, strong, Raissa? I've considered myself stubborn, a procrastinator - those have strong traits. I can be strong for other people. For me, personally, I'm a mush and feel weak. Wish I had more discipline for myself - perhaps that is the attractiveness in learning a martial art of some sort. Self sacrafice... you don't mind if it makes other people happy.

What am I scared of? What if after all this time, after my spouse felt comfortable enough to share and 'encourage' his fantasy with me, what if this was enough to undo me? What if I've fallen partly out of love? Yes, I love him, but I'm not as happy as I was before. I do not adore him as I did before. There is a nagging persisting sadness that was not there before. What do I do with that? How do I find out what to do with that? If I sit here and think and ponder, I get more depressed & stay angry as focusing on the negative. If I sit here and focus on chores and keeping busy, the depression disipates as I'm not focused on it. So, which is better? Ignoring it & letting life get back to as much 'normal' as possible? or Analyzing it to death and sinking into a major depression unable to statisfy myself with hard core answers?

My spouse is not a bad guy. I've been told everything from 'leave him' to 'what's MY problem?'

I guess as I am the only one in control of my emotions and thoughts, it is, afterall, my problem. I just don't know how to achieve the happiness I once had. Something has changed in me, something deep inside that is sad. How could my spouse encourage & want me to do such things? Its beyond me. He doesn't pressure me anymore, but I have the knowledge of what he'd like if I'd let it happen. Knowledge isn't always grand.

At any rate, this was not intended to become 'juanita's thread' and I am turning it back over to WD. I just did not want to let your comments and thoughtfulnesses go unacknowledged.

thanks

April 20, 2005
1:23 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Juanita,

Like I said, flying saucer girl, I definitely appreciate your sense of humor and warmth.

Like raissa implied, I'm pretty scarred up. I don't like it when people like me too much. I have a low tolerance for compliments.

There is a thread about men being afraid of intimacy over in support threads. I didn't used to be this way, but I am definitely terrified of getting very close to a woman again. My only hope is to "pretend" my way into it.

Far as your husband goes...

It is natural for people to lose that "in love" feeling that happens early in relationships. With respect and friendship, hoprfully it changes into something more realistic and mature and sustainable.

I have heard of men with fantasies like your husbands, and he should know that the men almost always end up being sorry they ever suggested it.

My concern is his motive. I wonder if he was making an opening..."Well, you've had yours, now I want to fool around too."

I wonder if he is already being unfaithful and is trying to justify his behavior by getting you to do something you dont want to do.

I really have no idea, though.

I recommend that you try to keep a good attitude about your marriage and try to build it up and make it work. At least YOU will have given it the old college try, even if hubby turns out to be too doofless to put his share of work into it.

April 20, 2005
9:18 pm
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Juanita
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WD -

May I ask you why you have a low tolerance for compliments, and don't like it when people like you too much? Low self esteem?

You've indicated you'd like to get married in your dating service ad. That would definitely involve closeness, much more than liking someone, and probably a compliment or two. Definitely trust, which involves openness and being vunerable.

You did nothing wrong. You were a victim. You saught help, and thought the 'help' you were receiving was professional, knowledgeable, unbiased, help.

I can only imagine how hard it would be for you to open up and trust another female on a deep level again ... but compliments are a stepping stone ... based on the factual good things you have done, factual good traits you have ... they are just as the compliments to your logic ... fact. You should write down a factual list of all your positive traits and qualities. No BS - just truth. You will see in black & white just how much you have to offer anyone/everyone. To me, I am hoping I am a safe bet for you. You don't know me, I don't know you, you'll never see me, I can't (WON'T) harm you. All I want is to help you see the truth - the positive truths about yourself.

I have never asked, so pardon if this is a sensitive topic from me to you, but, have you forgiven yourself? (Do you think you need to forgive yourself?) When people put up walls, that is in part a defense mechanism. Part of the defense mechanism (on my own part too) is harboring some of that hurt to remember it, keep it there, and not repeat the same mistakes again. In doing this, we both torture or torment ourselves for events past repeatedly. Never allowing ourselves to forget, heal or move on.

I am not as researched or as educated as you on the subject. I only speak from the heart. We have to forgive ourselves in order to move on and heal. We have to understand that we tried to do the best we could with what we knew and had at that moment in time. We did not know then what we know now. We did our best. We were hurting. We were injured. We are human. We didn't ask for these things to happen. You said they didn't happen all the time - You were hopeful and trying and loving. Those are good traits. Forgive yourself for being duped and played and used at a time when you were loving and trusting. Forgive me if I speak out of line.

You have suffered so much, if I can help you even in a minor way, then I will be glad to have done that little bit. I don't want to trigger you in any way, but if I do, perhaps that also indicates dealing with a topic that needs to be addressed so you can move on. If I trigger you in any way - I hope I do so as gently as possible.

My marriage? Well, considering I absolutely adored my man for 15 yrs, this new way of feeling (the last 2) is a sad change indeed. (Read "Double Speak" on the Support Side.. I was venting). I can't give up on a marriage just because he wants to "swing". Quite honestly, if he has ducked around on me, I'm not sure how I'd react right now. Just don't bring me home any unexpected "presents" or sicknesses - keep things as are for the kids. I'm sure I still suffer from some depression, but don't believe a little daily pill is the answer. I'm depressed b/c in my opinion he cheapened me, and I'm depressed with myself for not standing up for myself sooner and letting that happen. I used to pride myself on being able to take what life tossed at me ... suck it up and move on attitude. Always a hardworking gal. Nothing given to me. I have to forgive myself... I trusted him & never expected that from him & didn't know how to react. I was too ashamed to seek advice or help earlier on, I tried to suck it up on my own & failed. He still views it as a compliment and very generous offer on his part. We just have 2 total different views on this subject, and the counsellor told me I needed to change mine... not to do what my spouse wanted, but to at least accept what he offered in the manner in which he says it was offered.

Maybe this is all there will be from now on. I don't know. I just can't give up on everything due to his desire for sexual exploration can I? I don't think I can... not willing to at this point. 20 yrs is a long time. Its hard to tell sometimes which way I'd cheat myself more. By staying and dealing, or by giving up and moving on. With kids involved, and 20 yrs invested, staying and dealing are the way I am choosing. Sometimes, I do confess, I'd love to hit him over the head with a turkey leg like my deal pal Zinnie had suggested... (I love that gal)

I wonder if he realizes, or how it affects him, to know what all this has done to me and our relationship? Does he realize what he lost, and does it matter? I suppose the answers to those questions don't matter. It wouldn't change things.

So, WD, here I sit - bending like a weeping willow tree in the wind - trying to move and flow with the breeze, yet remain rooted and strong. Sometimes I am strong, sometimes I am weak, but ever "I" shall be.... (bad poet!) You are welcome to 'cyber' join me anytime you want... you bring your guitar, and I'll provide some lemonade & cookies. A night of old fashioned quiet & reprieve from all around. Z & I used to meet under the tree & swing in our swings to escape a bit. Old habits are hard to break, so if you want me - look for the tree.

April 21, 2005
8:58 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Twinks,

It's cool, just gotta be careful because I am easily triggered by the "D" word.

Oh no! I said it!

April 21, 2005
9:29 pm
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One thing I am finally, figuring out is that it is true: men and women really are different.

I'm an embryologist with training in developmental endocrinology. I have long known that there are differences in the brains of men and women. But I have nevertheless believed that differences between men and women's psychology was mainly cultural. Maybe that was a mistake on my part.

I have a fairly high emotional intelligence for a man. But I have become aware that women are much more sensitive to subtle emotional and social clues than I am. As a recent example, a woman here was recently dismayed by my inability to percieve her warmth towards me. It is kind of dismaying, actually.

I'm reading this book called "Brain Sex" by ..oh, I can't remember. It has a test to see if a person's psychology is more masculine or feminine. Apparently I am rather on the masculine side of masculine. Gee, and I always prided myself on being an androgynous man.

One of the questions on the test was something like: if you are at a dinner party with several married couples and two of them are having a clandestine affair, can you discern that fact always, often, sometimes, rarely or never? My answer is somewhere between rarely and never.

Apparently women can discern those things better than men.

I wonder if I can use this insight to get along better with women.

April 22, 2005
5:36 am
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gazelle
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Hello again, WD. I'm surprised & pleased that you have this new insight into yourself and hope it will lead forward to better ways of fulfilling communication for you.

Going by what you have said before (and NOT said!) and your own self-definition as "science-nerdy" or "left-brained", I had you down as at the extreme "masculine" end of the 'normal' spectrum - and perhaps even a little further than that. ( No offence; I only mean beyond the mainstream distribution-graph bulge. We are all 'different' & unique in our own ways.)

The way you interact here seems to me to be quite blunt, direct and literalistic. It seems to me that you place greater emphasis on perceived 'facts' & logic than on picking up subtle clues about the feelings & motives of others and showing spontaneous emotional reciprocity.

When you do lighten up and RESPOND (rather than reply) to the TONE of an emotional posting - eg. with the exuberant, intelligent, spectacularly warm, funny & lovely Juanita - it seems to me to be almost forced - like consciously learned behaviour. Almost as if you have to remind yourself to do it, rather than a natural, instinctive reaction to the subtle implications and possible expectations of the other person.

This is NOT meant as a criticism in any way. Simply my attempt to understand & be useful. May I ask whether you often feel bemused by people's reactions? ... unsure what response is expected from you? ... or aware that there is unspoken emotional loading behind their words, and that you disappoint people by not picking up on it?

Did you study psychology / relational dynamics or whatever in order to learn about social rules that most people seem to pick up naturally, but which, for you, required conscious study? Of course it was powered by your strong sense of justice & desire to help people too. I'm just trying to dig out the personal aspect too.

I promise you that this is kindly meant, out of friendly interest. I am taking up your invitation to get to know you. Also, it helps me to understand how the 'extreme male brain' works!

In trust - blessings - gazelle.

April 22, 2005
6:55 am
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Worried_Dad
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Of course their is a draw back to womens sense of subtle social and emotional cues--namely they can be paranoid and jump to incorrect conclusions. Such people, often women, will interpret her lover's quietness as rejection rather than recognizing they just got home form work and need some quiet time.

Or, they will get upsetr when someone does not read their subtle emotional cues correctly.

Sometimes, subtlety is for the birds.

April 22, 2005
7:12 am
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Worried_Dad
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No, like I said I have a fairly high emotional intelligence, compared to most guys anyway. I am what they used to call a choleric personality and have had to study how to rational, had to study to develop my left brain.

It is very hard to pick up on tone in written text--for me anyway. And it is easy to get carried away emotionally. I try very hard to NOT respond to the tone of postings and I try very hard to make my own tone neutral. It is a value and a skill. For me "lightening up" isn't really appropriate most of the time here. Except in certain L.B. threads, like the humor or "chatty" threads.

Juanita is a special case. We have a "special" history here. I bite my cyber toungue with her.

April 22, 2005
11:19 am
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gazelle
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Hmmm ... so you reply by berating some women for behaving badly (as you see it) rather than addressing any of the questions...

What makes you consider your "emotional intelligence" "fairly high"? How can you compare yourself with "most guys"? Have you done tests yourself on this, or been independently assessed, I wonder?

Juanita certainly seems to be a very special lady in many ways. I'm delighted you two get along so well 🙂

Why do you consider it "a value and a skill" to be neutral and not to respond to people's tone or be sensitive to their expectations, hopes and needs? Don't you think expressing, sharing, addressing and responding to each other's emotions in kind is of any theraputic value for anyone? Or just not for you, as you perceive it?

I'm trying to understand your motives. Choleric = quick to anger and over-react, so I think I'm starting to see your fear / avoidance of affective responses a little. However, other posters here may need a nurturing space in which to face and reveal their repressed / suppressed / un-asserted feelings, and to explore them safely with the anonymous support of others. In these cases, empathetic responses can help enormously and be of HUGE validating, empowering value. We differ profoundly, since I am more in the latter bracket.

Thanks for your limited reply, if that is all you felt willing to do. No pressure. I'm learning lots about fundamental differentness.

Every good wish. Blessings - gazelle.

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