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WD got paged
February 23, 2005
11:12 am
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Worried_Dad
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February 23, 2005
11:20 am
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Worried_Dad
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And my attention was drawn by Sewunique to a very upsetting thread by a young woman.

That is a real tough one, sew.

Mom seems to be in denial, perhaps colluding with the old guy.

And Mom's not taking her daughter seriously is upsetting the kid, too. We're talking secondary victimization here, and that can be very crazy-making.

This kind of thing happens in incest families--the entire family system bends to protect the abuser/drunk/gambler.

The dilemma here is that the grandparents are probably offering support to the Mom.

And when this breaks, a lot of trouble is going to ensue. A lot of trouble.

So I am torn. On the one hand there is the hope that the old guy's behavior might be controlled with just a warning and that the family system, such as it is, might still be abale to function.

On the other hand, these situations can also just go on and on without strong intervention. And there are the Mandatory reporting laws.

So on the one hand I'm inclined to let the girl decide what's right for her. On the other hand, she is really to young to know and decide that.

I guess, for safety's sake, a teacher or other adult needs to be told.

Damn, this is a tough one. Damn damn damn.

February 23, 2005
11:50 am
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mj
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Just a question?
How many 11 year olds are clever enough for the chosen nickname?

Also if I can read all these threads, what makes you believe she can't?

This site is about anoynimity and being able to express our opinions.
She found this site so therefore won't others in her household be able to find this site by her history?

I think everyone needs to allow her to express at her own time without breaking the guidelines of starting new threads.

February 23, 2005
12:21 pm
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bel
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Like MJ stated this person can read the threads and try to do what is advised regarding her situation. There are many phone numbers she can call for help and many websites to visit for more information.

That is about all that can be done here for her and the rest is up to her. I understand the situation of what I have read but other than giving advise and some phone numbers to help her out that is it.

Bel

February 23, 2005
12:44 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Well what I am struggling with. my personal struggle, is the morality of supporting someone's autonomy versus the imperative of protecting children.

When it's an adult I feel okay about talking out all sides and all options.

But with a kid their is a different imperative. And I feel bad about the storm that will be generated from folloing the "correct" advice.

February 23, 2005
1:25 pm
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sewunique
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I agreeWD, this child needs safety and to be believed. I know personally what happens when not believed. ( Enough of me.)

I know the schools system and medical systems require to report any suspicion of this nature. Teachers have inservices yearly on this. I question the school systems i each state, but we have that assumption something will be done if reported.

If a teacher, guiidance counselor are aware, it goes to Social worker and the system. And there you have it begun, hopefully.

The number one thing I have read is that she is believed and can tell someone that she can gain safety. I do not believe she has aquired a safe envionment yet, from what she has said and her tone of fear.

Her damages might not be so servere, they can get worse orr repeated if she does not have that safety of being able to confide in a real live person. We are linited here.

I agree all said with the household History. Jigsaw said she trusted her art teacher Miss Lindsney (sp) I think that is a good place to go with encouraging her to tell.

MJ, you brought up a good point about the protection of this site and Jigsaw's anonimity here as well. I think we are going to have to be watchful of that.

Excuss the typing. I ut out a pager to be relieved, I have had little sleep if any. mamaC will be back 4 or 4:30 CST

Sew

February 23, 2005
1:28 pm
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sewunique
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Mj,

jigsaw the name, a puzzle? Confused? to her situation? I thought the same. Why do any of us chose the names we do? I have to believe her. If not,would be an injustice to her.

February 23, 2005
1:30 pm
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sewunique
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Think we should post the National Sexual Abuse hotline for her?

I clicked on our Homepage and the site page was unavlaiable, had to go google it to find it. Just a thought.

I do not want to give up on this child. If we can help only one.......

February 23, 2005
1:53 pm
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http://www.rapevictimadvocates.....ldren.html

This homepage has simple guidelines and what to say t the victim

Be ready to listen
Being a willing listener, who acknowledges the feelings of a person, makes you a great asset in the life of a survivor close to you. Sometimes it's very useful to simply be with a person and create a safe silence if need be. Non-judgmental support helps survivors tremendously as they recover from this traumatic event. If he/she indicates that they might want to seek professional help, or if you feel completely out of your depth, they are welcome to call the 24-hour Chicago Rape Crisis Hotline at 1-888-293-2080.

Relax
Try not to worry too much about "saying the right thing." Being available to listen is far more important. Just let a survivor know that you care, and all else will follow.

February 23, 2005
1:56 pm
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sewunique
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this sme site; (We are doing a good job)
__________________________________
As with any survivor, with a child/adolescent survivor, you should:

Assure the child that he or she is not to blame for the assault.

Tell the survivor you believe him or her.

Tell the survivor that he or she is safe now and that he or she did the right thing by telling.

Assure the child that he or she did not deserve the assault/abuse (being out after curfew, going somewhere without permission, etc.)

Address the child's concerns and feelings of confusion, shame, fear, betrayal, and guilt.

Communicate with the child in a way that he or she can understand.

Not force a child to talk about their experiences if they aren't ready to

February 23, 2005
2:07 pm
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sewunique
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National Sexual Assault Hotline

1-800-656-HOPE

http://RANIN.org

February 23, 2005
2:19 pm
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sewunique
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MJ,

"I think everyone needs to allow her to express at her own time without breaking the guidelines of starting new threads."

I am not quite sure what you mean; about breaking the guidelines and starting new threads?

We are maintaining one thread for jigsaw; the one she created for help. All the other threads the past two days were to obtain help and resources.

If you are talking about the second thread we have been using as a backdrop to discuss and support mamaC whil talking to Jigsaw, that it is a concern, I do agree. I do. I think there is now a network of people here who can more easily handle what to say and how to say it.

The thread I am concerned with your point, MJ, is called: "mamac from sew". If at all possible , I think that thread should be eliminated; this being one of the few rare cases. There should be someone here who may contact SC for this? Not my judgement call, only a suggestion.

February 23, 2005
3:03 pm
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mj
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The web is a very accessible place.
I have experienced one imposter since coming to this site. None of us know anyone unless we shared with friends this site or broke the guideline of sharing email addresses or was here at the inception of this site when it was ok to post email.

I totally agree that children need to be protected. So do you think that it is helpful to talk about someone on a different thread is helpful. To me, she found the site on her own, we can offer our advice and keep it where she can see it. None of us I believe are professional counselors or sex therapists.

I am glad we have this site. We can offer suggestions but it seems like by keeping watch is not helpful and somewhat obsessive. I care about anyone adult or child being abused. I certainly want the best for all that visits this site. I just think that sometimes a breath in between and some distance may give clearer perspective. That's my opinion.

February 23, 2005
3:26 pm
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I'm a little concerned that we may be overreacting a little bit here. Jigs did say she told her mom. Why don't we let her mom catch a breath and see what she does? When my son told me he was a victim of sexual abuse, I froze for a day or two. I didn't know what to do other than reach out to close friends and a therapist. It took a few weeks for us to get an appointment with a therapist for my son. Of course, we no longer live near his abuser, but if we did, I would have made it a point to not allow them contact, even if I wasn't sure about confronting that person.

Anyway, my point is, let's be here for Jigs, but perhaps her mom will do what is necessary now that she has the information, and we don't need to be getting teachers, etc. involved.

jill

February 23, 2005
3:53 pm
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sewunique
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Yes, Mj, I do agree with your points. and sitting watch is too much. At first we were not sure or comfortable, some were afraid of saying the wrong thing. But I think everything is going better and she will be able to accept others here as friendly folks. Thanks, back to my nap.

February 23, 2005
3:54 pm
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Worried_Dad
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What I am realizing is that I got triggered here. I am still not over what was done to my son, and when kids have this kind of trouble I have very powerful emotions. So I really, really need to wach my mouth here.

I'm glad there are som clamer heads available to provide calm, nonanxious presence here

February 23, 2005
3:57 pm
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sewunique
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Jas,

Your points well taken. You were there for your child. I know many children are not believed and we just are not sure what is going on, so I think everyone is trying to go gently. She has this week off from school. So that does allow mother to get a grip and handle/intervene on her own in this timeframe.

February 23, 2005
4:27 pm
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sewunique
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I appreciate the diversity and wisdom of all of us here at this site. I feel more calm. We have a team here, that is crucial and uplifting.

Peace, Sew

February 23, 2005
4:27 pm
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WD. I'm so sorry about whatever it was that happened to your son. My son is 17 now. He came to me on September 1, 2004 and told me that he had been sexually abused by a neighbor from the time he was 8 until he was 12 and we moved. I was absolutely horrified. He also told me he had been cutting himself for the past 3 years. He's been in therapy now since he told me, and is getting treated for depression. He has stopped cutting, but this has been such an ordeal. My faith was seriously tested. I ended up in the hospital after a panic attack, and now I take it one day at a time. I remember looking for support for parents back in September and did not find anything. Do you know of any programs for us?

jill

February 23, 2005
4:58 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Guys.... Help me out here.

I am definitely NO professional. I feel jigs is opening up, but I feel that she will easily be scared away if she is bombarded by lots of different types of advise. This is only goin to confuse her.

I am not and have not tried to manipulate the thread. I didn't ask anyone else not to talk. It just seems that has been the order of things.

I am not saying what I tell her is right and if you look I have asked the advise of teachers, and others that may know the system better than I. I have not had association w/ the system in almost 10 years now.

My personal opinion on this is to let her talk it out and then have her retalk to her mom on Thursday. If mom isn't coming around by Friday then we push her to call and tell. She goes to the grandparent's on weekends. And if all fails tell her she does not have to go to the grandparent's house.

????????????????????????????????

February 23, 2005
8:12 pm
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Worried_Dad
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mamacinnamon,

You are actually one of the calm, nonanxious ones I was talking about. You seem to be doing fine over there, and I myself have said what I needed to say.

February 23, 2005
8:15 pm
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Thanks WD. Doesn't matter now anyway. She told. I was doin the happy dance here. So very very proud of her. Now, just to let her talk and get more self assurance and validation so she'll be able to go forward. I do hope Britney's mom hangs in. Again, Thanks.

February 23, 2005
10:49 pm
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sewunique
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She seems to be hanging in there, tho' the tummy achesa nd general malaise, very typical. But she seems to be accepting well everyone posting to her. This is a good thing. MamaC, how are you feeling about this now, with everyone posting, you okay with that now? i know you were probalby a bit surprised, but it was too much t monitor like MJ said. And my sleep pattern is bonkers right now, sorry, I couldn't hold out there.

February 23, 2005
11:32 pm
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Sew:

Thank you and I am amazed you held out like you did. I had no clue you were not sleepin till I check in at the hospital. You should have told me.

I think she is accepting others talking a bit, but have yuo noticed whenever she has 3 or 4 talking to her she suddenly is tired and has to go. I think she is still a bit uncomfortable where that is concerned. My only fear is that she have 5 or 6 start talking to her and tellin her what to do and her get confused or frustrated. I think the well wishes and support are great.

I do know last night got a bit hairy for me. I want to be honest w/ her but she freaked as soon as she found out others would get involved. I am so glad her friend's mom picked up on her mood and talked to her. That's all she needed was that hug. I am wondering how her mom is gonna present. Either way she stands to lose a loved one.

Well, that's my thoughts for now.
Again, I so appreciate you Sew.

February 24, 2005
12:04 am
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SweetAmanda
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The fact of the matter remains that we do not know who jigsaw is. Maybe he/she is telling the truth, maybe not. AAC is a good 'sounding board' to let out feelings and see what's the right/possible course of action... But she/he/they is obviously intelligent enough to inform someone if she/he so desires.

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