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WD: Found a DV Court Report about my friend online--Warning: horrible, graphic violence
July 19, 2008
2:20 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Stronginhim,

I'm not interested in anyone helping me take a look at my motivations for anything. To second guess my motivations is worse than rude, it's just plain wrong.

I just don't see anything helpful here:

Attack # 1

“I would be incensed and fearful of his character..his ability to abuse me emotionally or physically”

Attack # 2

“Court documents for non-celebrities don't get transferred to the …”

Attack # 3

“WD...I take it you have been secretly desiring this co-worker (past posts)for some time and wanted to gain insight into her situation so you could further maneuver yourself..insinuate yourself into her life?”

Attack # 4

“What you have done…shows deep control issues on your part.”

Attack # 5

“You come here and disguise it as pure compassion....well it's more than that!”

Attack # 6

“your desire for her is so deep , and so far unreciprocated by her in a romantic way, you decided to step way over a boundry here.”

Attack # 7

“you deeply desire her and was desperately searching for a way IN!”

Attack # 8
“So you now think of withdrawing your efforts?
Good for her! “

July 19, 2008
3:21 pm
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free
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No personal attacks? As if everything posted on this thread was to help wd?

What a crock.

Things were posted to help the individual poster express unresolved anger stemming from past abuse issues with absolutely no thought to wd- he's been the target of unresolved anger and it's not fair to him. OR snowlflower- we don't know that she's given permission to use her name- many survivors DO that, and that's why there are movies made such as the Tracy Thurmon Story etc,biographies written, etc.

There's continual "I'd feel this and I feel that and you did wrong wd and should be ashamed"

Ma, nobody in a face to face support group shames another. It's against the rules.

Y'all wanna be angry becuase something was posted about snowflower on the net that used her name, then be angry at the person/people who did that.

Stop speaking for her, she's capable of doing that herself.

I've had it.

You wanna take out unresolved anger on somebody, find somebody else. You wanna read motivations and intent into a situation, read it into your own.

Firing at wd isn't going to make your anger go away, kuz he's not the one who hurt you. Ya keep firing at him kuz he keeps trying to defend himself and ya know what? IT WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH. No matter what he says, it will never be good enough.

Kuz he's not the one you need the confrontation with.

free

July 19, 2008
6:52 pm
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healintime
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"Stop speaking for her, she's capable of doing that herself"

No - "she's" not. And that's the whole point. Yes, many survivors decide to tell their stories and put a name and a face to their ordeal - and it's an important part of their healing process.

This woman, if the appeal is the only information online, may not even know that this information is on the internet. She may not have been given a choice. And she certainly wasn't given a choice in this instance. It's been posted and discussed by a group of people who are specifically writing on a site that protects their own anonymity and allows them the safety of telling as much as they want, when they want, without the vagaries of google allowing fellow posters to go look at the legal blow by blow of what they've been through. It was posted by someone who works right in the office with her - and who she didn't choose to even discuss the fact that her abuser was appealing his sentence with - details be damned.

I'm done - but personally, I'm grateful for this thread. It helped me grow and I've been reminded of some really important things that I guess I needed a refresher on.

H.

July 19, 2008
7:01 pm
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"No - "she's" not."

Well, she IS. She went through a trial, was directly, indirectly, and cross-examined. So she is. Because she went through a trial she had a victim's advocate. That advocate is not you. Furthermore, the prosecutor and criminal investigators on her case probably know about this and by now she does to because of that.

Her case is likely being discussed by more people than exist here. Being that it's on the net.

She's not a helpless victim anymore. She's a survivor. So don't take that away from her by saying she can't speak for herself. She has, and she can.

This thread was started by and for, and is about, wd.

Not snowflower.

And not you.

hugs

free

July 19, 2008
7:05 pm
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bevdee
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Healin

This is true -

" "Stop speaking for her, she's capable of doing that herself"

No - "she's" not. And that's the whole point. "

She is not capable of doing that on this thread, unless she knows about it. I think that WD does a stand-up job of standing up for himself on this thread, he doesn't need anyone to do that for him, either.

July 19, 2008
7:29 pm
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It's on the net bevdee, it's being discussed by people and they're likely using her real name, wd never did that.

Adn yeah wd can stand up for himself, and he does a great job. It's hard to sit on the sidelines and watch other survivors fry one of our own.

Yeah, wd is an abuse survivor. The fact that he's male IMO makes a difference how he's being treated and to me that's not fair.

He was indirectly victimized and that's why he came here, amidst other survivors. His shame response came from past abuse, and that warrants support not attack.

I don't want to "fight" with or especially hurt other survivors, we're supposed to be here for each other.

None of us know what snowflowers situation is, it could be that this is a horrible thing, it could be that it's not.

But it seems everybody is pointing a finger at wd saying he did something horrible, something wrong, something abuseive, something bad, shamful, perpetrator-like.

a question comes to mind: If I had come on here, or you bevdee, or healingtime or Ma, etc, one of us women, and we had discovered the same thing, would the responses have been different?

I think they would have been.

Or what about a gay woman who professed a love for snowflower coming across something like this and being indirectly victimized?

I think these questions are worth pondering.

Is the upset in this thread about wd andposting here, is it about the potential that our names with our pasts be printed on the web? In other words, control over this personal part of ourselves be taken away from us?

Kuz ya know what, that's a fear I've had to confront and look into kuz I don't want that to happen.

If it does, I see myself raging at the people who put my info on the web, not all the people who eventually discuss what was put out there.

Maybe I'm just not making any sense at all.

Kuz my first response regarding snowflower was "shit, I sure hope she consented kuz otherwise the people behind this should be shot especially if it's her perpetrator and his defense counsel"

Maybe I'm the one who's off base in being angry at people for posting her name and details of the trial on the web in the first place.

free

July 19, 2008
7:42 pm
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MsGuided
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Crosstalk...I am an offender
BUT this site isn't a 12 step program, and I have never been to one.
Not everyone here has.

I at least took it upon myself to look up the 12 steps and after reading about crosstalk. I AM NOT the only offender here.
Crosstalk is the problem, period.
I looked for insight into this conflict and I am not going to blame or right fight.

Be Well.

July 19, 2008
7:55 pm
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bevdee
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He Free,

You bring up some valid points.

You say "But it seems everybody is pointing a finger at wd saying he did something horrible, something wrong, something abuseive, something bad, shamful, perpetrator-like. "

I can only speak for myself.

In my first post, to remind him that since this thread was on Libs, he might get hurt. I had had a similar conversation with SC in Jan about Support for sensitive but triggery issues in Libs - so I posted part of his/her response.

I posted that it might be difficult to face her, now that he possessed the knowledge, etc.... the post is still there.

I posted that I would feel violated if something like this about me was as easily accessible on the internet as WD said it was. It's my opinion, my feeling, but I did not say I felt indirectly victimised by him doing it. Or that I felt abused.

"Adn yeah wd can stand up for himself, and he does a great job. It's hard to sit on the sidelines and watch other survivors fry one of our own." I don't particularly see it that way - but I have noticed that you and WD are often of a like mind about such things. I see it as feedback, you and he see it as attacks or being fried. I posted that I didn't think MsG or any of the other posts were abusive.

Now, I actually regret posting in this thread at all, because I think I misunderstood the intent of thread. WD, I apologise for posting my feelings and thoughts as a person who was abused. I hoped it could give you some insight into your ladylove. I wasn't as you stated above, trying to play an abused woman card, I just misunderstood.

Peace to everyone - love and laughter in healing.

July 19, 2008
8:17 pm
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WizardofAus
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Virginia Satir, a very effective family therapist from a few years ago, made some very useful comments on the issue of confrontation in therapy.

If the client is not hearing what is being said then say something else, so they can get back to listening.

As a client, you need ultimately to honor your own opinion ahead of that of your helper. After all, you have to live with the consequences of your choice.

However, it is not a bad idea to at least consider the possibilty in any communication that the other person may be right and I may be wrong.

She used to say, "Chew upon what I have to say, but only swallow the idea if it tastes right for you."

To her thoughts, I would like to add the idea that we have a fairly delicate fabric in this site. It can be torn rather easily. It is helpful if we can express our thoughts once and let the other person do with it what they will. Repetition may be helpful for a genuine clarification, but when it degenerates into a "I am right and you are wrong," it may be better to talk about something else for a while.

I believe they have a saying in Iowa; "If what I am about to say does not improve on the silence, God, please help me not to say it."

Having read the posts rather quickly, it seems to me that all points of view have been expressed reasonably clearly and hopefully with the best of intentions.

Is it not maybe time to turn the focus of our collective wisdom to other issues?

July 19, 2008
8:22 pm
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bevdee
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",i>Is it not maybe time to turn the focus of our collective wisdom to other issues?"

You might be right!!

Or you might be wrong!!

July 19, 2008
8:31 pm
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WizardofAus
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Well said, Bev. (lmao)

There is a lot of wisdom in your wit.

July 19, 2008
10:14 pm
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((bevdee)) I like the other issues thing wizard.

What causes abuse survivors to experience shame when non-survivors experience anger and disgust?

I know the answer is our own abuse, so maybe what I'm really asking is how do we get to where OUR response is non-survivor like?

And I wonder if it can be.

free

July 19, 2008
11:08 pm
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WizardofAus
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Hi Free. Are you talking about letting go of shame?

Bradshaw used to talk about healthy shame which he called humility and unhealthy shame in which we allow the shame to move from our experience and behaviour into our very inner being.

Our humility stems from our ability to learn from life and to own our cause and effect relationships with the rest of the world. It is healthy for me to accept that I cannot ever fly, so I had better not jump off a cliff. Similarly, a couple of earlier relationships have taught me that my over-trusting nature can get me into exploitive relationships; so in future I need to ask a lot more questions. I need to be humble about my instinctive gullibility, because it can get me into trouble.

Unhealthy shame is when I move from thinking, "I made a mistake" to "I am a mistake". My gullibility does not have to ban me from future relationships, if I can learn to manage the situation and make higher quality decisions about who to love.

However, learning from an abusive relationship is a tough gig. First we have to take responsibility for what we attracted into our life. Then we have to let it go by forgiving ourselves.

I find one helpful question to get me from responsible learning to self-forgiveness is, "have I learned all I need to learn from this situation and if I face a similar challenge in the future, how will I handle it differently." Once we realise that we have grown through the experience, it may be easier to let it go with a positive feeling of "well at least I learned something."

July 21, 2008
4:14 pm
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I like what you wrote here wiz. Very insightful. I find self-forgiveness a challenge.

wd, how are things going with you? How are you feeling?

free

July 30, 2008
1:47 am
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September 23, 2008
12:59 pm
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