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WD: Found a DV Court Report about my friend online--Warning: horrible, graphic violence
July 15, 2008
1:36 am
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bevdee
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"OK, it sounds like you maybe think of yourself as an "object of desire?"

And maybe you think that other women think of themselves that way?"

I am an object of desire. Yes, yes I am.

July 15, 2008
1:48 am
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bevdee
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Hey MamaCinnamon,

I don't see this as a boxing match. Just some different opinions, some expressed strongly, some not.

July 15, 2008
2:06 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Bevdee,

Reading someone's email before they log out is a famous and very effective form of hacking.

I approve of you choosing not to hack your Boss' email account.

I also appreciate you sticking up for my Boss.

Like I said, I am only "slightly" pissed off that he didn't tell me. It was not because he knew the guy had been arrested though--because my boss didn't know that.

According to my Boss, the reason he did not tell me that my buddy had been threatened a work by the knife-wielding maniac the previous day is that he thought that might be revealing too much personal and sensitive information of our female co-worker's private life.

I don't think that is, per-se, a "good enough" reason to withhold that information.

But I also don't think I have much reason to really hold my boss' nondisclosure against him.

Because I believe in the following principles, or rules-of-thumb.

1) We can never really know what a person is thinking.

2) All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the best explanation.

3) It is generally best to assume that people are well-intended—because most people are.

It doesn't matter if my Boss made a mistake. Because he is a person I can apply rule number three to his behavior.

July 15, 2008
2:32 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Mama,

I appreciate you sticking up for Snow-Flower, and I'd like to get back to that one day, maybe, if anyone ever lets me.

But actually, this is my Support Group, not Snow-Flower's, and this thread is about my emotional reaction to discovering hair raising stuff about Snow Flower.

Anyway, Mama, I really appreciate you here you taking a real coaching role here, kind of a "Advocate of the Advocate" or "Friend of a Friend."

That is actually really helpful.

What this *new* information tells me is that I have actually been going about this in the exact correct way all along, and I am going to keep doing what I have been doing--namely, play it "by the book."

I will continue to be a good collaborator and co-worker. And when she sometimes explodes and needs to blurt, I will continue to manifest a calm, non-anxious listener, validate her perceptions, support her decisions, etc.

Thanks for reminding me Mama, and I hope you know I already know--it is unhelpful for a male who is trusted with this kind of information to get all puffed up in the classic angry, protective, vengeful man posture.

Trust me; I'm way over that. (Remind me to tell you the story about what happened before I was over it.)

The case of Snow-Flower is not the first, or even remotely close to the most violent and dangerous case I have had to deal with up "close and personal." It's just the most recent.

The most recent one always hurts the worst.

July 15, 2008
2:54 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Mama,

Gonna step back and think about what you have said.

For now, I want you to know that when you say:

"It is gonna take this girl a long time to put this behind her."

Yeah, I know that. Even knowing what I knew last month, I have known that my friend has a whole lot on her plate.

That has made me want to be very slow and gentle and cautious in my interactions with her.

I don't want to jiggle her elbow while she is doing difficult work.

July 15, 2008
3:22 am
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free
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I say at work treat her no differently than you would anybody else.

The horrible things human beings do to one another never ceases to amaze me. I think it would be pretty shocking to come across something like this about somebody I knew.

free

July 15, 2008
11:34 am
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Shaney
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Lot's of emotional reactions and opinions here, but no boxing match. Unless Kroika wants to go a couple of rounds in the mud... hmm? ;o)

I think for some, WD, it was hard to get past the privacy issue, in order to see how you were really affected by the info that you found about your friend. And then emotional reactions ignited...
which all deserve support in my opinion, once you get to the feelings behind the reactions.

Hope you find a way to make it all work out. Work is a difficult place for romance, and with all of the issues that are present already - your idea of stepping back may be for the best, at least at this time.

In the meantime, you may want to look into Googlaholics Anonymous. :o)

July 15, 2008
2:24 pm
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StronginHim77
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Googlaholics Anonymous. PERFECT.

Thanks for the grin you gave me, Shaney...

- Ma Strong

July 15, 2008
4:00 pm
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MsGuided
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In my region when you "google" a name, You will NEVER get a court document unless it is part of a press publication.

You may get a persons blog, webpage, postsa in discussions ( if they use their real name) assorted reports for papers written ( school, university) or awards/events particiapated in.

You may see mention of a case, but you have to link to the court house where the proceedings took place to access the case files.
It's a bit more than a simple search and one or 2 clics.

I'm glad to say I'm not pissed off.
What a releif!

July 15, 2008
4:36 pm
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bevdee
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If you are tempted to google the one ya got da googly eyes for - check out GooglyEyesAnonymous.

July 15, 2008
4:43 pm
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Shaney
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Glad you're not pissed MsG. That would require that you either get help from Pissaholics Anonymous, or mud wrestle WD until someone yells "uncle."

Happy to make ya grin, MaStrong. :o)

July 15, 2008
4:59 pm
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MsGuided
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Sorry but I already attend Creamed-Corn-Wrestling anonymous and that excludes participation in any other version of wrestling.
Sorry Ya'll. I've been hiding that one.
It all started when i saw Ann Margaret in Tommy, ride a baked bean smothered pillow on a shag rug...but I realized I had some anger issues and i could never drink enough champagne to reach that level so I thought..Hmm? ...mushy canned food and wrestling in a blow up kiddie pool!! Sounds like a plan!

July 15, 2008
5:09 pm
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Shaney
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Oh wow, I've heard those steps are pretty tough. I could see where the mud wrestling would be a conflict of interest with your creamed corn gig. If you ever fall off the wagon, let us know.

July 15, 2008
7:06 pm
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free
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Msg are you saying that wd is not being truthful?

free

July 15, 2008
7:34 pm
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mamacinnamon
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MsG: I would love to know what neck of the woods you live in. From mine I can get almost anything I want, and yes w/ a bit more than a click or two at times, but at others it is just there as easily as WD said. My son hates when he walks into the house and I hand him his latest court records. Mom's perogative.

One thing I show teen kids is how someone can find them by just having up as much as their pic and the name of their school or hometown. They usually freak, and I'd like to think they change their ways and control their own safety more but I'm not one for foolin myself or anyone else. No, I don't literally show them the sites, but I can by getting their name give them their address and phone number. That to me is scarry and yes, I do have a teen on the computer; so yes, I do use google to watch over her to some extent. And yes, there has been a time in recent history she lost her privileges for over a month. Too bad things everywhere can not be like your neck of the woods coz I'd come live there if it truly were that safe.

What I do use the computer for tho is to teach folks how to find their state laws so that they know their rights and are not railroaded thru the court system and wind up losing their kids. I also use it to teach folks how to find the resources in their states so they can get the help they need if they find themselves in need of food, clothing, shelter, jobs, assistance of many kinds. The computer is truly a monster of good and of evil both.

Today looks to be a much nicer day here. Folks visiting, playing, light banter. A nicer place to be. Free, come on in and mudwrestle and let the rest go. I don't think she said he was not truthful, I think she is trying to get across that it is not that way where she is from. If I am wrong then someone please sling me some mud so I can clean out my ears.

July 15, 2008
9:15 pm
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free
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Well, mamma, I'd like to hear that from her. It seems to me to be that she's saying he's not been truthful, and I like to get right to the nitty gritty versus the inuendo thing. I'm trying to be not so hostile these days, so not searching for an argument, just what it is exactly that's being said.

Mudwrestle? I dunnno......not quite up my alley but hey, always up for something new....I'll tink about it...

or maybe cheer ya on from the sidelines.

free

July 15, 2008
10:10 pm
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MsGuided
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Free
I'm saying that's how it works here, In Ontario Canada so that's how I understand internet searches for criminal records.

Mama.we do get direct links to gov info on gov sites on search mainpages but justice and health records are more work to find.
Of course you are doing a mothers job when it comes to your kids.I would interact as openly with my family also.

"In my neck of the woods"

Canada has a huge deficit with linking internet databases. We're kindof behind when it comes to tying loose technical ends....and My search engine is geared to favouring Canadian sites.
I just googled myself and i found one thing. It's on poetry.com.....damn that's embarrassing!!really shamed now. ;0(

It is pretty safe here but that's changing sadly enough.

July 15, 2008
11:51 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I didn't here MsGuided calling me a liar in her recent post.

But in her 1st and 2nd post, I experienced a pretty clear accusation that I was a "not decent," man, that I was an internet stalker, driven by my need for control and by my obsessive sexual desire to research "sexual things" about a coworker using sneaky online hacking and actually going so far as to visit the courthouse to view sensitive records so that I could gain psychological advantage to help me impose my twisted sexual desires on a vulnerable woman who has repeatedly rejected my predatory advances.

So far, I haven't heard anything from MsGuided to the effect of:

"I was mistaken and I take all that back, and acknowledge that it would be very painful to be falsely accused of such things and I ought not to have jumped to such conclusions or made such accusations given that WD was telling me very clearly that that was not what happened."

July 16, 2008
2:48 am
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well I dunno if that's gonna happen wd. A perspective posed is just that- perspective posed. Some people may have viewed and still may view the situation from that perspective, not just msg. ah, well.

seems to me something hit a nerve with her and that warrants paying attention to. Especially since you care about a woman who's been through some serious stuff.

I'm getting the message that she's not saying you're a liar or anything else negative, but that something's fishy. Something doesn't fit right.

That's the world as seen from a survivor's standpoint. Fishy.

And this is gonna be the world that this woman you care about sees.

So there's something to be gleaned...

just my take.

free

July 16, 2008
2:55 am
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red blonde
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I just wish Google had been around in the late '80s!

Mama, I had a similar episode as you did...though mine was with a man I had started dating...and it happened at my house at an anniversary party that I was giving for a couple that I knew. My 'guy' had been just goofing around....and raised his arm. They found me hiding in my closet scrunched up into as small of ball that I could possibly get, shaking and crying. 'Guy' friend said later that I turned white as a ghost, saw the terror in my eyes and I just bolted so fast that he didn't know what happened. My Shepard-Collie was out in the pen....thank goodness for that..she would have attacked him with no qualms about it. She had seen too many arms raised to me.

WD, That is why I said what I said to you back when you first posted this thread.

I confess, I have googled myself...but it was more for self - preservation, survival, protection...call it what you may. And I know that others have googled my name as well...but if they take it farther than that...well, they pay the consequences for that.

July 16, 2008
2:57 am
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It's kinda like this:

"I'm sorry you're feelings are hurt, but I can't aplogize for being skeptical, kuz I've every right to be, and whether or not you can understand that is irrelevant'

as harsh as that may sound.

free

July 16, 2008
3:00 am
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rb we cross posted!

i too wish google had been around in the late 80's. man, it's only been about 10 years or so. How weird huh?

free

July 16, 2008
3:12 am
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red blonde
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(((Free)))

Yep....damn, I definitely would have be better off....if Google had been around in the late 80's - and I had owned a dealership/computer business from 81 to 86!

If I had known then (via googling), I would have avoided being threatened and terrorized and from feeling a whole lot of GUILT.

How you doing, Free?

All I can say to your 'problem' is - do what is BEST for you...do what will make you the HAPPIEST. You deserve to be happy!

July 16, 2008
3:35 am
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red blonde
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WD

Smoke definitely is coming out of my ears as well!!!! ... because that is what I was counseled through the Church! So I listened...and that just allowed him to do further damage to me through the loss of the child that I wanted and was carrying. The full extent of that damage was realized four years later.

July 16, 2008
11:55 am
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MsGuided
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I'm saying WD may have feelings for this woman, very deep feelings that include wanting to get romantically involved, for a LONG time,and sneeking around finding info about her bad domestic situation and terrible marriage seems kindof intrusive to say the least.

No I never said any of what he wrote above ( hacking?, Ok i was mistaken about how he got court records, but being naive is differnt than being stupid,)...I think, WD, your being clandestine. That in itself is scary to an abused woman.It really brings back the predation factor. Yes triggers and highly emotional reactions.
Maybe your intentions are good, but you are focusing on a woman who perhaps isn't suited to you. Like others have pointed out.

And posting what I should say to someone or himself is pretty controling because I didn't ask......nor did his coworker, Snow Flowert ASK for his intrusion into her life!

Codependency 101: you can't control others just accept who they are and try to understand where they are comming from.

This means stepping BACK.Not forging forward into deeper waters for your own satisfaction.

Well I guess, WD, you have me pinned. Maybe I should disect everything you posted in your tirade?
Sorry. Not going to get sidetracked from the subject here.Besides I don't feel as passionate about your attack on me. I really don't care much.

Also it's pretty difficult to apologize to someone who chose to tear down my whole person when all I did is point out some things he is doing in THIS situation with SF.
Sure I was wrong about search engine details, but I guess in Wd's eyes I am game for a complete tear down, and lambasting!LOL

YES.I did get emotional because this woman had a horrible abusive relationship, which in itself is horrendous, but now she has some man at work who is hiding his deep obsession with her and posting about it on this site?

Looking for some absolution?
Ok fine WD, You made a mistake, stepped over the line and you feel bad.....well you should! Learn from it and move on!

Also. WHY are you interested in this woman so much when she is obviously unavailable on so many levels?

I may just be an example of how a woman reacts, one who isn't totally submissive, when she is being intruded upon.

Free..You are an extremely perceptive smart lady and I appreciate you seeing the different spectrums of this situation.
For now I'm done with this.

Thanks everyone (( Shaney, Bev, Free, Red, mama))for trying to diffuse things here!

It's WD's thread and I get the feeling he's petitioning for my public flogging!
Gotta go to work.
Be Well!

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