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Ways to Avoid being hurt
December 22, 2005
2:57 pm
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eve
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I was not being confrontational but trying to be helpful and get back to what the title says this thread should be about: thinking about ways to avoid being hurt.

I wanted to stress that some of the ways we find for ourselfs to protect us from being hurt will need careful reevaluation from time to time.

There is the saying - desperate times, desperate measures. Yes, if somebody feels thoroughly attacked and invalidated by another person it may be helpful to think that this person is a jerk, and avoid all contact and be very distrusting and cautious with them.

But with normal everyday people this kind of black and white thinking in my personal experience is something that is really a Desperate and often inadequate measure (that I for example used in times of depression without any real necessity, and it hurt myself a lot, and it was quite hard for me to notice this and snap out of it). And therefore I would like to stress that thoroughly focussing on a person as a Jerk and focussing on all the bad things they've done (and this - to me - seems what this thread was initially about) should be used with great care, and reevaluated from time to time. So as not to hurt ourselfs and others.

December 22, 2005
4:59 pm
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eve

I think that you 'did good'. You made a lot of sense to me.

Whoops! That might not be seen as compliment in some people's eyes. But it is meant by me to be one.

'Ave a good Christmas

December 22, 2005
5:23 pm
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I think it's the constant sarcasm that is most constantly hurtful to me, it feels like people are inderectly looking down on others all the time. Shame just comes to mind more and more.

December 22, 2005
7:28 pm
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(((Tez ))) LOL šŸ™‚
I almost Posted " Does this mean Im Zen ?" and left it at that.

The cave was fine. There was a Roaring fire going. I was roasting marshmellows and singed my socks because I had my feet up on a log by the fire. šŸ™‚ The bear sleeping behind the big bolder in the corner got excited once when a spark landed on his tail so I popped a mashmellow in his mouth and that calmed him down.

(((Please: No Offense ment to anyone on here and Please do not be put off if I do not always put names to some of my comments. It is confusing to me to go back and forth up and down the sceen to remember who said what. Im Artistic=such a low maintenance lifestyle and my Focus is like an Electron Microscopes but I get burnt out fast if I have to juggle alittle,plus Im Spaztic. )))

Ok I will try some. (((Flower:))) cool story. I do like this thread.

(((Gazelle))) Raz))) Im not on this site to enough really to have a feel for what is going on or how long it was going on. As Gazelle stated on another post. Nut Shell version from Networks memory. She is in a mood or train of thought where she is trying to see or apply a more loving way of thinking about people. Even Offensive people.

((Throwing it out there-in General)) There are times in my life that I have experienced being held to a train of thought and have come off as sort of abrasive or stuck _ (Crusading might be a closer word ),this line of thinking in my encounters with people and not ment to be abrasive at all.

It was odd because a number of years ago it sure seemed like I kept pushing a perspective or point of view and the feeling it gave me was like this.___Something is going on and it feels like _some_thing_ is going to happen in my life. Kind of like I can feel the ground shaking and know the train is coming but can not see it yet.
I could not put my finger on it. This went on at times for a year or two.

Then one morning I woke up and looked around and at my life with such astonishing clarity that I felt stuned. It felt like nothing is going to have my emotions all knotted like they where since I was a child, ever again. There was a Major Breakthrough and another turning point in my life. Boooom ! Of course I still get P.O.ed at times but never as bad as before.

There are so many people at so many Different stages of Healing on this site and add in the the season. Things are going to get churned up at times.

((flower)) I see what your saying above and glad you said it because I could have named myself"Leo" because If my claws come out I do not Split Hairs and the only time they come out is when I fell like something unhealthy is going on. (Everyone) No offence ment_ I had to speak my mind.

Does anyone here feel the ground shaking ? :)))

December 23, 2005
9:38 pm
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DoTheyNetwork.

You said:

"I almost Posted " Does this mean Im Zen?" and left it at that."

In your mind's eye, can you clearly see the boundary that separates that which is 'you' from that which is not 'you'?

Which atom has your name on it?

Who is the 'I' that is doing the meditating?

Who and where is the 'I' that claims ownership of your body?

Now these are Zen type questions or koans.

You said:

"Does anyone here feel the ground shaking ? :)))"

Nahhhh!! Where are these 'anyones' to be found? In the willow-the-wisps?

Who and where is the 'I' that is seeking ways to avoid being hurt?

December 24, 2005
12:14 am
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I thought I'd check this thread out and I'm surprised at the emotions that have been/were (maybe they've quieted down by now) flying here. I'm by nature a peacemaker and feel to say a few things. If they've already been said, forgive me, please; I can't completely follow all the posts on this thread. Some people, like DoTheyNetwork, have done already what I'm attempting here. I hope to reinforce what they've said already.

I think Ginger was right when she observed that the same thing can mean different things to different people at different times. Some people (like Ras, perhaps) might have an aggressive, controlling person messing with them and do not recognize that these people are acting in unacceptable ways. Calling them "jerks" can empower them and help them realize that these other people are in fact acting out of line and should be told to stop. Maybe Ras is only starting to appreciate her right to say "no" to such people. Aren't we all at different points in our recovery?

But sometimes, we might be the agressive/controlling person and need to realize we are acting out of line. Isn't everybody capable of acting in this manner from time to time? I know I am. Thus Gazelle said what she said.

And labeling people as "jerks" can create mob frenzy and incite some to go on a witchhunt, so to speak, against those who they think are jerks (I forget who said this earlier on this thread; I wish I knew their name so I could give them due credit). This, of course, is not an appropriate response to handling the situation. May I never be found in to be part of this mob, though I know I have been guilty of this myself at times!

I certainly didn't find anything that Gazelle said to Ras to be unacceptable, but maybe Ras isn't at the emotional point where she can perceive this and know Gazelle is only expressing an honest opinion from a different viewpoint.

Let's all try to be patient with each other, please. I know I've appreciated all the times others here have been patient with me.

And thanks Tez, for contributing some humor here. It helps!

December 24, 2005
10:06 am
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exoticflower
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I think there has been some mob tiypre frenzy on this site frequently--by and large in the scrutinizing of every word and hashing it out 20times as pntentially offensive, something that has made this place so hostile and eggshell covered that I am pretty sure I will not be back. Let someone say jerk without becoming a passive aggressive sarcasm monster! I can't stand to be here anymore, it's as if epople are LOOKING for things that couold possibly b e offensive, turning them personal, jtearing a person to shreds and scrutinizing and shaming in completly covertly abusive ways for every thing they say after, then beating it to death to make sure to kill any slight spirit of helpfulness wich the post was intended to have carried (for which I was grateful before it was turned ugly by hostile defensive people who needed words to appear on their terms to be at all free of attack or worthy of letting be) with intelectual garble that makes me feel stupid and unwelcome becasue I do not understand it and really serves only to eliminate anyone who cannot keep up. My ex used to do that, it was intelectual seclusion of the worst kind, always muzzled me like a less inteligent dog.

The past few weeks, I have come away from this site feeling ashame, uncomfortable, crazymade, scrutinized, and muzzled frequently, usually by the same group of people. What I see is a lot of people tearing others apart rather than working on themselves, and it interferes drastically with my right to work on myself comfortably, and I find it to be now\t worth the helpfulness here, espcially concidering that it mainly serves to deplete that.

HOp[e everyones technicalities pan out--I am going to go find a tollerent site where the members allow mental health, and that's a shame, I liked it here.

December 24, 2005
1:38 pm
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DoTheyNetwork
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Thankyou Seek. Precisely . Exoticflower some of what we are reading here sounds just like Hooterville where I live. Splitting hairs. Why? Pain relief ? Distraction from the pain in our lives ? To much time on our hands? The use of Our is because I have been there. So Im not excluding myself. Lack of Quality time with Ourselves. Paint a picture,color with a child,read a Book (That is not selfhelp/guilty here šŸ™‚ ,watch birds,see the stars in the sky,feed the pigeons,look at a sunset,feel the wind on your face,build a book shelf,take up woodcarving,take up knitting or play a musical insterment. Take a drive,take a walk,go to the zoo or try something you forgot you wanted to do since childhood. I forgot that like many kids I wanted to be an Astronaut,Fat Chance now.:) While driving along one day I spotted a guy with a telescope. Wow ! I saw craters on the moon. Watch a child for awhile. Now they know how to Live ! We forget to just live at times.
Tez
What is the Question that is not spoken?
What is the cry that is not heard?
What is the Question that is not amswered?
Is it in this Thread?

Have a Merry Christmas and the Happiest New Year of your LIVES !

Network

December 24, 2005
5:40 pm
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DoTheyNetwork.

You asked:

Q.

"Tez What is the Question that is not spoken?"

A.
What is Life asking of me?

Q.

"What is the cry that is not heard?"

A. ( )

Q.
"What is the Question that is not answered?"

A.
Where are the borders of anything to be found?

Q.

"Is it in this Thread?"

A.
Can it be anywhere else but where you are!

December 24, 2005
7:04 pm
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Rasputin
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((((Sweet Flower))))

Thank you sweetie for voicing the TRUTH!!!! I can't believe it!!! I started this thread for you, Mamac Basically and for others to help you on the other thread to identify jerks and dangerous people which is a Reality and look what came out of it!!!

This is Horrendous!!!

This place is meant for intellectual exchange, love, support, for buidling each other up. Even if we disagree about a particular subject,
when something is done with the spirit of love, it is always different even if it is controversial or debatable!

What happened on this thread is Totally the opposite!

Flower, let's us with the Spirit of Christmas FORGIVE those who started this attack!

Flower, I love you so much, you are a true friend and I am proud to have you as cyberfriend!!!

(((Hugs to you & Lil Flower and I wish you very Happy and Blessed Christmas)))XOXOXO~Ras~

December 24, 2005
7:38 pm
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exoticflower,

"The past few weeks, I have come away from this site feeling ashame, uncomfortable, crazymade, scrutinized, and muzzled frequently, usually by the same group of people."

Have I been part of this group? If so, please let me know. I don't want to alienate anybody and would appreciate any feedback if I have.

December 25, 2005
1:23 am
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DoTheyNetwork
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Tez Good šŸ™‚ I was think of how this thread is allot like the common thread that runs through all of our lives.

December 25, 2005
2:19 am
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DoTheyNetwork
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Anyone -Hmmm ! Try this if you would like. Type "Earth" into your favorite search engine, or "Planet Earth" Where Are We ? Where is That ? I can hear someone out in cyber space saying ya No ____ ! But think about. Where are we ? I am not talking about Yup,Im in Denver or LA orNY. Where are we ? Where is Earth? The human race is surviving in every environment on the planet. From mud huts to Highrises. Egypt to Igloo's. We are feisty... We are made to Survive. I like to think about this when I work on art. How do I say Look, LOOK, Look around you. Where are you ? Live every Breath. Life is Precious. It is harder to put it into words. I just put a note in my Journal. " Take some time to Remember to live every breath and never forget that feeling."

Good Night šŸ™‚

December 25, 2005
7:00 pm
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"How do I say Look, LOOK, Look around you. Where are you ? Live every Breath. Life is Precious. It is harder to put it into words. I just put a note in my Journal. " Take some time to Remember to live every breath and never forget that feeling." "

Eggzackly!!! The next breath is the only one of which we can be sure. The 'now' is all we ever have. Be here now.

Why worry about real or imagined past 'hurts'. Preoccupation with trying to avoid being 'hurt' leads to more 'hurt', more suffering.

Why worry about imaginary building 'forts' or 'escape routes'. It is our present 'intentions' that count. For those intentions establish the 'heaven or hell' that exists 'in our mind' right now.

But to find out what those sometimes well hidden intentions are often requires much introspection, reflection and contemplation. The self-deceiving mind tends to tenuously maintain its own delusive self-deceptions.

December 25, 2005
10:31 pm
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Hi there,

I used to be naive! My naivety and too sweet personality led me to number of people who were freak looking. When I came across these people, I couldn't help but say to myself: "Lord, I don't like these folks, even tho they act nice, there is something about them that makes me scared, insecure, uncomfotable as if I were in front of thief, dishonest, criminal people, you know the type you feel uncomfotable with, yet you feel there is no direct proof to condemn them."

My bewilderment led me to purchase some books and literature which really saved my life!!!

Here is an excerpt from one of my books:

"Second-Degree Jerks, a much larger group, who willfully take advantage, control, lie, cheat, if they can get away with it. They feel guilt sometimes, but not enough to change their behavior/ways. From work with thousands of different cases, it is our guess at our clinic that at least 40% of society could fall into the 2nd Degree jerk category in this age of "I gotta be me."

"Then there is Nth-Degree Jerks, the really sociopathic sickos who lie, cheat, abuse, and even kill, all without guilt or remorse. Thankfully, their numbers are small -about 10% of society - but they are a very dangerous bunch who cause a lot of pain and discomfort for many people."

This book has really saved my life from so many dangerous people & situations. I am not naive any more. It really spoke volumes to me about all those freaks, sickos...and 40% is Not a small percentage at all!

Some wise fellow once said: "Knowledge is Power." This is very true!!!

~Ras~

December 25, 2005
11:42 pm
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Rasputin,

{"... at least 40% of society could fall into the 2nd Degree jerk category in this age of "I gotta be me."

"... Nth-Degree Jerks, the really sociopathic sickos who lie, cheat, abuse, and even kill, all without guilt or remorse. Thankfully, their numbers are small -about 10% of society - but they are a very dangerous bunch who cause a lot of pain and discomfort for many people."}

This does not sound like healthy literature to me. It sounds like it's designed to stir up paranoia, and it has.

You have a naive and sweet personality; I can tell from your previous posts that this is true. I'm also naive; I don't know if I'm sweet or not. I can relate. If you're like me, you're too trusting and share your feelings too freely with people, and some take advantage of what you share with them.

Perhaps you might want to consider setting appropriate interpersonal boundaries for yourself so people can't so easily take advantage of you, act in good conscience toward others, and then let people think about you as they will.

If you take reasonable steps to protect yourself while reaching out to them, What's it to you if they're "jerks"? Sure, it will hurt, but you can simply cut them off, one at a time, from your life as needed. And you'll be happier for it, Ras.

December 26, 2005
9:00 am
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Thanks Seek for your feedback!!!!

I am not naive anymore even tho I am still sweet and I do not want to change this sweetness. LOL

We live in world where unhealthy, negative things even evil things DO happen. If we pretend otherwise; we are only fooling ourselves.

I used to be like you. Thanks to the number of jerks I encountered, I was forced to purchase, wonder, firgure things out. Only when we go thru problem, our mind starts questioning.

Yes, Seek, you sound naive and sweet! You remind me of myself before.

Just because an author wrote about something negative or unhealthy BUT TRUE, does not make that book bad. He is being HONEST & PRACTICAL. I would rather have an author who tells me the truth about life, than someone who sugarcoats things to me just because he does not want to appear unhealthy or negative.

We live in a world where evil Does exist, and it is part of our life. So, let's get educated and be well-informed rather than stay naive and blind.

Prudence is a quality, and even paranoia, when used properly and at the right moment is a wiseman's tool!

December 26, 2005
11:04 am
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"Just because an author wrote about something negative or unhealthy BUT TRUE, does not make that book bad. He is being HONEST & PRACTICAL. "

I know you're a Christian, Ras. As the Bible says, "Ye shall know them by their fruits." If their fruits create paranoia and encourage you to be angry at those you consider to be "jerks", what sort of fruit is this, really?

Personally, I prefer authors who do not deny the existence of evil and problems, but who can teach how to deal with it calmly, constructively, and assertively.

What are these two books you mentioned, anyway, if you don't mind my asking?

December 26, 2005
2:05 pm
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He is very positive but he is also realistic author. He is Christian psychologist who deals with this problem in constructive, positive and effective way.

I am not angry at jerks. I just like to avoid them, coz this is what the author requests us to have. He says the best way to avoid being hurt by a jerk is to avoid them.

That was exactly the SAME advice I gave to my cyberfriends here on this thread, Flower and MamaC and the others on the 1st post of this thread!

Go back and read my 1st post and you will see my advice plain and simple:

IS TO AVOID THEM!!!! PERIOD

December 26, 2005
6:41 pm
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Good Stuff šŸ™‚ Tez

Why worry about imaginary building 'forts' or 'escape routes'. It is our present 'intentions' that count. For those intentions establish the 'heaven or hell' that exists 'in our mind' right now.

Been There

But to find out what those sometimes well hidden intentions are often requires much introspection, reflection and contemplation. The self-deceiving mind tends to tenuously maintain its own delusive self-deceptions.

This is why I was bring up Hobbies in another post. Because what I have learned in applying Quality time with myself is that my focus shifts between Grrr those ##@%( turkies ! and getting drawn into what is going on in the present -Breath- the moment, with the hobby activity and if I get involved enough the Flow starts- you know šŸ™‚ Flow: that balance of being somewhat relaxed but challenged enough to have to stay focused . At that point nothing is forced and the moment is there and nothing much else and Pow ! The Truth or answer to what was bothering me or how to handle people that are hard to deal with just pops into my mind with such ease that I didnt even notice that the problem was fixed or it becomes a šŸ™‚ ,no big deal thing and is not even a situation any more.. It happened a few days ago. I was beating myself up because of my situation. Started on some art for a number of hours and stopped to eat and switched into a hobby for an hour or so then switched back to art and was basically taking care of myself. Then I went to bed and got up for work and had the(rare, their not around much) chance to work with the owner of the company and just started to tell them what was going on and how I dont want heads to roll and they did not mind at all. The problem was fixed and a couple of bosses acted weird for a week or two but could not even start with me because they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had them and was on to their selfdeception. šŸ™‚ My self-deceptions that I must be to blame were blown away because I was distracted enough from the problem to allow the answer to just come out on its own. I was not grinding away at it or re-hashing it to death. Like the old saying goes "Idle hands are the devils workshop" That saying may be deeper then it appears to be.

So I Avoided getting Hurt. Did not hurt more then someones Ego's and Made life one more step better then it was before. šŸ™‚ YaaaaaHoooo!

December 27, 2005
2:40 am
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Ras: I am on my thread. Thanks.

To ya'll.... Ras started this thread to help me w/ something I truly needed help w/. But, somebody had to take the DESCRIPTIVE word "jerk" and blow this thread way outta the water. Ya'll have at your bickerin sessions. It's a shame that nobody can come to this site and receive the help they need coz somebody is just waiting in the sidelines for a wrong word, miss-used word, or whatever to jump in and tell the world how wrong another person is. Who benefits from this? Surely not the person seeking the help; and certainly not the person posting. In fact, I've notice we've lost 4-5 more of our good posters just to the pettiness that this site of help? had decided to turn into a site of "let me correct you" or "let me bash you" tatics.

How shameful.

December 27, 2005
12:29 pm
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((((MamaC)))) Thank you honey for your wise and fair intervention. I was beginning to get pissed by the amount of attacks or negativity here, it seems that they are contagious and very codependent.

I started this thread with Noble Motive, i.e. to help people to protect themselves from danger!

So, let us put this tip we learned from this author into practice in this thread.

So please, if you want to post on this thread and you disagree with us it is ok as long as you do it in Loving Spirit, otherwise please don't!

~Ras~

December 27, 2005
1:45 pm
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Ras:

To late honey. lol. This will be construed as an attack I'm sure. Check out other thread w/ this concern. lol.

Ras.... just throw your hands up and say "how bout that". I feel we are in for nothing but the same and it's growing. Such a shame, this was a great site; still could be if folks would settle down and use a little empathy instead of judgment and tantrums.

Woops. I just got my name on the sh** list again. šŸ™‚

December 27, 2005
4:26 pm
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DoTheyNetwork
26-Dec-05

There is a lesser known but brilliant psychiatrist who is probably dead by now. His name is Dr. R.D. Laing. His method of giving therapy entails creating what he calls 'Co-presence'. This entails firstly clearly hearing and understanding what is disturbing his patient's tranquility. He then just sits quietly with them in total silence. They then get up after the Co-presence session is finished and go home. He sends them off with a humorous remark - not at their expense of course. He claims that they invariably come back beaming that they have found the answer to their problem, whether it be 'hurt' or you name it. Some how this Co-presence concentrates the minds of the patient in the moment and enhances quiet reflection. It seems to still the monkey mind allowing the 'wise old man or woman' inside to breakthrough.

This sounds just a little like your 'hobby therapy'. Concentrating the mind in a mindfulness way onto the 'here and now' seems to bring the 'higher self', the 'BodhiMind', call it what you will, into the foreground with elegant solutions to our life's problems.

You seem to me to be a switched on guy.

It seems to me that running away from problematic people, not only encourages life to throw up more of them at me, but also stops me from looking within where the real source of the problem lies. If I blame others for my 'hurt' I am only maintaining that which is causing my pain within. I remain a 'jerk'; i.e. someone who blames others for my pain.

Do you see it this way too?

December 27, 2005
8:09 pm
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Tez Hmmm ! Much of this should really be started as a new thread. This one has gotten lost along the way and the Originators Deserve to be able to follow the train of thought they began with and there Right to express themselves.

It seems to me that running away from problematic people, not only encourages life to throw up more of them at me,

Ok, I am not trying to push any buttons here. šŸ™‚
When we are avoiding or in other words trying to at least keep a problematic person at arms length until we can decern weather or not it is a communications problem,bad mood or a display of genuine Unheathy behavior. We can be somewhat sensitive to the next problematic person that crosses our path.

but also stops me from looking within where the real source of the problem lies.

The answer as to how to deal with the problem my lie within and that answer may be Yes I am the problem. No Something unheathy is going on and it is not me this time . Thank God. šŸ™‚ Or Im part of it.

If I blame others for my 'hurt' I am only maintaining that which is causing my pain within. I remain a 'jerk'; i.e. someone who blames others for my pain.

But I can acknowledge that someone hurt me and choose to make every attempt not to hurt them back. Some times this has ment that I had no choice but to avoid them or flat out cut them off.

Do you see it this way too?
I do see where you are coming from. I have 3 Ex friends. One was a predator that was trying to manipulate their way into my art. The second would not acknowledge that fact and resented me pointing it out. "I was Blaming. " The 3rd was poking around the edges of this trying to get information and I believe was actually Transfering his selfimage on to me. The second person was a female and first and third where both males and I know for a fact that the two males both independent of eachother have had sexual abuse and the Predator had sexual intrests inappropriate for his age level when he was 6-8 years old. I do not know what therapy they have had but I believe that this is what was at least a partial contributing factor to my continueing delemma with them. Personally I think they were both capable of Snowing their Therapist's. Life gets complicated and I am getting pooped.

I am attempting not to push any Hot buttons on anyone because I do not know where they are at in their healing process or much about anyone on here because Im sort of a transient on this site and come and go for months sometime. If you want to continue this Tez please name a thread. I dont want mamac and Ras to kick our a__'s. šŸ˜‰

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