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Was Jesus Christ a Buddhist saint called Issa?
April 19, 2008
10:32 am
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garfield9547
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Tez

Look at this verse, somebody in Gal said he was crucified with Christ.

Obviously this has a spiritual meaning

Ga 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

April 19, 2008
1:45 pm
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bevdee
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Tez

"Thanks BevDee, I knew what you meant."

I was just sure you did - so that confused me!!

"Seeking out or not taking steps to avoid pain purely as an exercise in transcending it to the point of dying seems to me to be a little extreme to me....." I think many of the *parables* in the bible are a little extreme.

If the story is to be believed, I didn't think he sought the crucifixion, wasn't he taken prisoner? But he knew his arrest was imminent and didn't run away.

According to what Xtainas accept as truth, jesus made the choice in not avoiding the crucifixion.

Matthew 26:50 "Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for. "Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

The bible states he was arrested, but the bible says he claimed to go willingly, citing 12 legions of angels as his posse.

Garfield, what spiritual meaning do you attach to this? "Obviously this has a spiritual meaning.

Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

April 20, 2008
11:19 am
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garfield9547
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Bevdee

I will start a new thread on the spiritual understanding of the Schriptures

April 21, 2008
1:49 pm
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garfield9547
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Tez

I have been reading a bit on the life of the Saint Issa.

Your thread tittle reads

"Was Jesus Christ a Buddhist saint called Issa?

Can you please give me the information pertaining to you creating this thread. What about the life of the Saint Issa do you think could be corresponded to the life of Jesus.

I hope I make myself clear on what I am trying to say to you.

I have been reading a bit on the saint Issa's life and it makes a lot of sense spiritually. We can all carry a certain spirit.

Thanks

Garfield

April 21, 2008
3:23 pm
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Ok.
Tez,
What would it mean if Jesus did in fact learn from the Buddhist? HOw would that change things as they already are?

April 22, 2008
4:41 pm
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garfield9547
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Hi Tez

I goggled 'life saint issa'

This is what I found amongs MANY things

""You are my voice, my eyes, my feet, my hands
through which I save the world."
(Jesus Christ - A Course In Miracles: W.R-V.Intro.9:3) "

This is what I believe. I believe that JC is a spirit that reveals throught people that allow the spirit of Christ to do so.

Just read this

Mt 16:2

From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
EBD NTB SBD
Mt 16:22

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Mt 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mt 16:24

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

This piece of the scriptures is very relevant to shwat you and Bevdee where discussing.

But these two verses in the scriptures struct me most if i read the heading of thies tr=hread

Firstly

1co 3:23

And ye are CHRIST's; and CHRIST is God's

2co 10:7

Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is CHRIST's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is CHRIST's, even so are we CHRIST's

Gosh man Tez. Reading this from the bible then YES Issa could of been a man carring the spirit of JC. And so can all of us.

I use the new or old king james bible. Does not really matter. Just revering for anybody that wants to look at this scriptures

Love

Garfield

April 22, 2008
5:12 pm
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Hi Tes

Sorry, but this whole thread and things being said and me thinking and looking etc. Quoting again. Please give me your thoughts on this.

1co 2:1

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1co 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1co 2:16

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

BUT WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST

This is what struct me looking at what you said and reading on the life of saint Issa also

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

This is how always and always will believe

April 25, 2008
8:15 pm
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on my way

On the 21-Apr-08 you wrote:

"Ok. Tez, What would it mean if Jesus did in fact learn from the Buddhist? HOw would that change things as they already are?"

Well ... if the mainstream Christian churches did accept that as a fact, and looked deeply into both the Buddha's teachings and the Gospel of St. Thomas, then they might start to grasp a far deeper more mystical insight into what Christ's message was really about. The ramifications of this would be far reaching in its impact upon the world. Christian nations would be far less likely to take up arms so readily as both of the presidents from the Bush family did in Iraq.

April 25, 2008
10:26 pm
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garfield9547

Thanks for your posts.

On the 22-Apr-08 you wrote:

"BUT WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST"

Yes. I guess the Buddha would put it slightly differently. As you probably know, he said that 'ordinary' unenlightened people are all Buddha's who have not as yet discovered the true nature of their minds.

I'm not in the right frame of mind to write much at the moment. My 20 year relationship is breaking up permanently. My partner, Joy, is packing up all of her stuff in cardboard boxes now as I write this.

I am in a lot of emotional pain even though I know without a doubt that it is in both of our best interests that this happen. She has instigated the breakup, and is unwilling to do the 'hard yards' necessary to try to put the relationship back on track.

So now is when I will do my level best to 'practice what I preach'. I will go to work on nurturing my painful emotions into quiescence(hopefully)- mindfulness, mindfulness and more of same + a little self-administered TLC.

Catch you later and thanks for the "love" word at the end of your post. It felt good.

April 25, 2008
10:31 pm
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Hi Bevdee.

I'm not ignoring you, believe me. I'm just all 'talked out' so to speak. I feel 'shithouse' to say the least for the reasons stated above.

Catch you later, chip potata.

April 25, 2008
11:17 pm
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Hey Tez

I'm very sorry to hear this about you and Joy. You know, if you ever want to talk, I owe you lots of hours of listening and support ... Sometimes it's hard to ask for help, but if you need or want to talk, I'll listen.

As always, my love to you, Tez.

April 26, 2008
4:20 pm
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Tez

Thanks. Sorry to hear about what happened between you and Joy. I wish I had better words to relate because I actually myself hate these words if i am in emotional turmoil.

Upu said

"So now is when I will do my level best to 'practice what I preach'."

This is sometimes the hardest thing to do. To practice what we preach. Don't be too hard on yourself Tez

Life does not consist of 1 or 10, but the numbers in between. 2 to 9. Life is not black and white. But the grey areas in between.

After every night there is a new dawn with new promise.

Love

Garfield

April 26, 2008
10:20 pm
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Bevdee

On 25-Apr-08 you said:

"Sometimes it's hard to ask for help, but if you need or want to talk, I'll listen."

Thanks for that great offer.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm a smart-arse who knows it all. I'm not wanting to give that impression at all in what I write below.

I know that most men are a mile behind you ladies when it comes to seeing the issues clearly in relationship difficulties. I knew that this breakup was inevitable about 6 months after Joy came back after out original breakup some 4 years ago. I tried to raise the lack of intimate communication and lack of trust issues then and since. But Joy is both a beautiful and simplistic person who could not grasp or 'see' at any depth the 'core cancer' in our relationship. This lack of intimate communication led to a complete lack of intimacy in sex. You ladies know what I'm talking about!!! This resulted in big problems in bed which led to discontent in me, which in turn led to my flirtations, which led to further negative regenerative feedback and a spiraling down into total emotional 'disconnection'.

From my perspective, underlying the above obvious symptoms or superficial causes, there are at least two core problems that go into driving the progression of this above 'cancer'. They are:

1. Joy has no interest in personal introspection or personal growth largely because she has no concept of what that means nor insight into the benefits. She sees life largely in terms of the shallow 'scripting' of 'Home and Away'; an Australian made TV soapie written by women for women depicting men as women would like them to be not how they really are. Joy is totally addicted to watching this Australian TV soapie with her full emotional involvement as though it was real life! I cannot stand the show because I know that it is total fantasy even in respect to it's depiction of women. I think it 'undersells' them badly as well as falsely. If I could have artificially forced myself into the mold of the males on that TV soapie then this breakup would never had occurred - I feel. But the price of losing myself is too high a one to pay.

2. I have a 'emotional cancer' at my emotional 'core' which is my need to have bargaining power over my projected image of my 'surrogate mother' so that I can be sure of her not emotionally and physicially abandoning me as my real mother did so many times as a child. Joy has by now become that psychic image. I am now refeeling the same pain of abandonment that I felt so many times as an infant.

I am very mindful of this 'cancer' being at the very core of my emotional memories as I face up to the 'hard yards' of recovery from the intense pain precipitated by this breakup.

It was my 'cancer' that got me into this relationship with Joy 20 years ago. I have heard my 'cancer' being described as Broken Wing Syndrome. I found this internally beautiful and simplistic person, Joy, in 1987 with a sparkle of love in her eye when she ballroom danced. It was that 'sparkle of love' that captured my heard. Joy's life then was in a horrible mess both psychologically, physically and financially. She lived in a government provided 'hovel', with a lawn that consisted of 3 feet high grass in which a rusting car with a blown up engine nestled amongst other bits of rubbish. She had her three young children depending upon her for their survival. These kids of hers were sired by the biggest arch-bastard that I have ever met. He is/was a dedicated woman basher and abuser of the worst kind. Joy was terrified of men then yet felt the need to have a good one in her life. But she had zero confidence in herself to do anything at all. She ran from women's shelter to women's shelters all over Australia always moving as soon as this 'bastard' found her and his kids. It took me three months of dancing with her just to find out her second name. It was only after one of her kids, with much bribing from me, gave me Joy's phone number that I was able to court her per phone. It was only after learning about this 'Lucifer' that I quickly saw him off showing him up for the coward that he really was.

When I first met Joy, she was like a 'bird with a broken wing' and I was hurting dreadfully from a breakup of a very addictive, toxic relationship with a female sexual and emotional abuser of the sick, sadistic kind.

I nurtured and mentored that 'bird with a broken wing' with neurotic motives mentioned above. Now some twenty + years later the bird wants to fly away confident and self assured.

I clearly see that it is in both my and Joy's best interests to grow past this neurotic form of 'codependency' into the next stages albeit very different levels of our individual growth. This is very painful for me. In the nicest way, Joy is very happy in seeing my pain. It reassures her that things will be different in so far as she knows that I still care very much about her. Joy initiated the break this time unlike last time when it was her who felt very abandoned by her 'life coach' or 'surrogate father' as it were. Now she is making her fledgling flight on her own with no kids to weigh her down nor partner to prevent her from making her 'own mistakes'.

I will NOT go looking for another relationship just to ease my pain. This will be hard to resist right now, so I'm going to spend some time alone 'in retreat' as it were to learn more about myself. I'd be more than happy to share my journey with you and others here if you like. Though it will stuff this thread up a bit, I think.

Love Tez

April 26, 2008
10:27 pm
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garfield9547

On the 26-Apr-08 you wrote:

Tez

Thanks. ...

After every night there is a new dawn with new promise.

Love

Garfield"

Thanks for this kind loving words.

I've written how things seem to me to be, above to BevDee. I welcome you and anyone else to share in my learning experiences.

I'm having big troubles focussing on St. Issa at the moment, I'm afraid.

Love

Tez

April 27, 2008
2:25 am
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Hey Tez,

I don't think anyone is a mile ahead of you. It seems like you have a pretty good grasp of what led to y'all's break-up. The fact that you're not blaming it all on her speaks volumes about you.

Do you mind if I ask you some questions? You say - "But Joy is both a beautiful and simplistic person who could not grasp or 'see' at any depth the 'core cancer' in our relationship." Do you think it is really this, or is it because she was avoiding admitting to any core problems? To acknowledge that something is wrong is difficult because then - you might have to change. That can be painful.

"my need to have bargaining power over my projected image of my 'surrogate mother' so that I can be sure of her not emotionally and physicially abandoning me " Are you aware of what you did to insure that?

Lately, I have been thinking about this quite a bit Thinking of the things I may do, or want to do to try to insure someone will not leave me. To remind why I am so great! Impulses I have to fight when I feel the urge.

"I am very mindful of this 'cancer' being at the very core of my emotional memories as I face up to the 'hard yards' of recovery from the intense pain precipitated by this breakup." I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. Please don't be too hard on yourself, kay? You're human. You rescued and protected her. You provided for her. She is nice, she made a nice home for you. You had common interests- dancing to name one of them, and it worked for a long time, didn't it? 20 years!! Goodness gracious, that's a long time for any relationship to last. What did you gain from the relationship? How did you grow as a result of it? Those are questions I would try to ask myself.

Over the years as you have shared with me, I have wondered if she was someone you could discuss and exchange ideas with. You have so much running through your head, Tez!! When you talked about the "soapies", I kind of deduced that maybe you all.. well maybe you all had different kinds of thoughts running through your minds. Remember Luc? He wasn't stupid, maybe more simplistic than I am, but he channeled his intelligence in different directions than I did. It was frustrating to me not to be able to exchange any ideas, or have discussions about anything but TV or gossiping with him. (When we got along, of course). And of course, he was too insecure to allow me any friends that might have satisfied that hunger in me. When you wrote this- "This resulted in big problems in bed which led to discontent in me,..." I wondered if there was more leading into any discontent. I say this because once I knew I couldn't talk to Luc about the things that really interested me, that his mind wasn't turning me on, the sex, for me, fizzled. After the initial chase is over with, I have to be intellectually stimulated. I don't know if it's the same for you, but I wanted to share those thoughts with you.

"Though it will stuff this thread up a bit, I think." Start another one? :~)

Be kind to yourself, kay?

Later -

April 27, 2008
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Tez

You said

"I've written how things seem to me to be, above to BevDee. I welcome you and anyone else to share in my learning experiences."

Thanks Tez will do

I have just read your thread. You have a wonderfull talent to express your feelings in words. Not lots of people have this. There is allot in what you said.

"I will NOT go looking for another relationship just to ease my pain. This will be hard to resist right now, so I'm going to spend some time alone 'in retreat' as it were to learn more about myself. I'd be more than happy to share my journey with you and others here if you like. Though it will stuff this thread up a bit, I think. "

This is excellent advise you gave yourself to focus on yourself and learn more.

Tez, this is your thread and you can do with it what you want.

We can always go back later and talk about Issa, right now you are more important and although I have a stupid way of expressing myself I am going to try.

I will read your thread again and give you my input later.

Hi bevdee, always a pleasure reading your replies. a good place to learn and reflect on my own life and relationship

Love

Garfield

April 27, 2008
7:42 am
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Tez

There is a lot of what you said that rings home for me in my relationship.

I will not start talking about myself, but you know how my husband suffered with sexual problems and me with problems to communicate on a intimate level.

Also realizing how odd we are as a couple, because its normally the woman who would talk about lack of intimate communication and sex. Not the man. Well with us LOTS of emotions the women is supposed to have my husband have and visa versa.

Tez you said

"I tried to raise the lack of intimate communication and lack of trust issues then and since. But Joy is both a beautiful and simplistic person who could not grasp or 'see' at any depth the 'core cancer' in our relationship. This lack of intimate communication led to a complete lack of intimacy in sex. You ladies know what I'm talking about!!! This resulted in big problems in bed which led to discontent in me, which in turn led to my flirtations, which led to further negative regenerative feedback and a spiraling down into total emotional 'disconnection'. "

Tez I have been throught this in my relationship a thousand times. I know what you are talking about. Its very difficult for me to read this and reply to you as I can relate to this on a very personal level.

Ladeska ones said you have to be honest and straight forward if you love somebody, so if I get to straight with what I am trying to mirror to you, just say so.

As a coin has 2 sides and there is no wrong or right I just want to ask you a question.

Do you think that you unconsciously create your own rejection in your relationship with Joy?

Remember I am not on any sides here, I am just trying to give you my imput

Love

Garfield

April 27, 2008
8:22 am
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Tez

My previous question was just plain stupid, but i am trying to make a point.

As I read what you say about yourself and Joy I can only come to the conclusion that you are both emotionally unavailable. Its time for you to look at yourself and heal like you said.

Please take time to read the following link that has help us tremendously considering some problems we had and how to resolve it.

I think you would be able to relate to some of the information.

http://mensightmagazine.com/co.....ter5.3.htm

In our relationship my husband always seemed like the only one carring about the relationship and me being the cold fish. In the end we realized that we are both emotionally unavailable and got the tools in therapy we needed to save the relationship

Hope this helps

Love

Garfield

April 27, 2008
9:01 am
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Tez

and now a little bit of information on the other side of the coin.

The sexual anorexic people. This is how I use to be. How in hell me and my husband came together I do not know. Really

1. Withholding love from primary partner. In this facet of sexual anorexia they actively withhold their feelings and
behaviors of love from their partner. Partners of anorexics often state not feeling important or loved. Withholding
may be only at home with their partner while publicly they may behave affectionately toward their partner.

2. Withholding praise or appreciation from their partner. Withholding praise or appreciation can be done consciously
or unconsciously. When presented with this behavioral characteristic most sexual anorexics and their partners will
acknowledge the behavior truth of this lack of ongoing, void of praise and appreciation.

3. Controlling by silence or anger. The sexual anorexic that is confronted by life issues to come close to their partner
and deal with an issue or feeling will often resist this process vehemently. The two most common dynamics
employed is total shut down i.e. leaves, go to another room, watch television avoidance or anger.

4. Ongoing or ungrounded criticism that causes isolation. The anorexic will push away their partner using criticism
especially if the are headed toward emotional or sexual intimacy. This can be an ongoing experience for the couple
where one partner is sexual anorexic.

5. Withholding sex from the partner. The anorexic will stay in control of the sexual relationship by: refusing to initiate
sex, saying no to the sexual advance, makes the partner initiate the majority of sexual advances. Anorexics may also
make sexual encounters emotionally void or unpleasant so the partner will not want to have further sexual
encounters. This lack of sexual initiative and activity is the clearest symptom to evaluate in the initial intake
process

6. Unwillingness to discuss feelings with partner. The anorexic withholds emotional intimacy. This unwillingness to
discuss feelings may be localized to the primary partner or global to all relationships. This withholding is active in
the anorexic relationship style and is important for clinical intervention.

7. Staying so busy that the anorexic has little to no relational time for the partner. This busyness may take the form of
hobbies, political or religious pursuits, children’s activities or can be as passive as watching television for hours a
day. The anorexic rarely initiates long periods of alone time alone only with their partner. i.e. no romantic weekends
or vacations without friends and family members.

8. Making any issues in the relationship the partner’s problem before owning any of the issue. Blaming the partner
consistently is a characteristic of anorexia. A core motivation of the anorexic is to keep the perfect picture.
Apologies for anorexics tend to be slow in coming as well.

Hell Tez I am at this stage very doubtfull if I am actually being helpfull to you in posting all of this.

BUT if we do not see ourselves clearly and change the script we will always go into a new relationship thinking of the old one. And 99% of the time this thinking comes with heavy loaded emotional baggage (template)and then we become locked right back into attracking a clone of our last relationship or even worse.

This is why its so wonderfull reading that you plan to take time to heal. But i know how difficult this could be.

Love

Garfield

April 28, 2008
11:34 am
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Tez,

Here for you. I am sorry to read that your relationship with Joy is ending, as I know it must be hurtful. You have fiends here. Write away, if it will help.

Regarding Bush and Iraq and Issa, etc....Bush is there for oil, perhaps, although we have tons of it right here in our own country. Maybe Iraq is only a front, but I don't think it has religious roots anymore. For some giggles go to YouTube and key in 'The Best of Bush". I hope the poor man does not have dimentia.

April 28, 2008
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Hi Tez,

Thank you for opening up and sharing your ending of your relationship. I wish you well in your self discovery. I love how honest you are about what you think and why! A long time ago you asked me "Who is the I"

I am and thats Good Enough! Peace

April 28, 2008
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bevdee

On the 27-Apr-08 You asked:

"Do you mind if I ask you some questions? You say - "But Joy is both a beautiful and simplistic person who could not grasp or 'see' at any depth the 'core cancer' in our relationship." Do you think it is really this, or is it because she was avoiding admitting to any core problems? To acknowledge that something is wrong is difficult because then - you might have to change. That can be painful."

It is difficult to answer this question without it seeming like I'm putting Joy down. From a genetic standpoint, some families are just simple people. Joy is from such a family. She has an 'intellectually challenged' brother who whilst able to independently look after himself has been on a disability pension all his adult life for this reason. Her sister is also some what 'challenged' as well - tho' not as much as the brother. Joy's cousins are similarly not overly bright to say the least. Her mother was also very simple-minded. Her mother really believed that her brother, Joy's uncle, shrunk to half his height when he died of cancer in hospital. Joy is the best out of all of them. But when it comes to self-exploration, for Joy even the idea seems to be too difficult to grasp let alone committing to the actual process. If you knew her you would instantly find her endearing and a pleasure to be with. But you would not want to have her as a partner in some 'business' venture. A mature sexual relationship is not a business venture. However for one to work well just as much intellectual ability in both partners is required as a prerequisite to make it work. The intimate 'meeting of minds' in a sexual relationship on roughly the same level, would appear to me to be essential also. Consistent parent(or adult)-child communications doesn't auger well in a long term, living together, sexual relationship.

Though I might have exaggerated Joy's lack of mental prowess just a little, I hope I have clarified that point of yours without sounding like 'I'm up myself' so to speak.

April 28, 2008
10:40 pm
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Hi Garfield, OMW, MJ and anyone else that I've overlooked.

Because I'm up to my eyeballs in both the logistics and the emotions of this breakup right now I am unable to concentrate on your responses sufficiently to think about them and then respond in the way that they deserve.

In a few days when Joy has gone from my home and I have settled down a bit, I will get back to you all.

April 28, 2008
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Hey Tez,

No it doesn't sound like you are putting anyone down. This is exactly what I meant - "The intimate 'meeting of minds' in a sexual relationship on roughly the same level, would appear to me to be essential also. " It is for me.

As for the rest- you take your time. The most important thing is for you to take care of yourself during this time of emotional upheaval. (((Tez)))

There's one thing I want to say to you, and I'm grappling for words.

Just because I recognise something in me- a need or behaviour pattern that may not be in my best interest, or may be unhealthy - doesn't mean that I am able to overcome it immediately. However, in the meantime, I am very rough on myself for not having been able to do so, or for not having recognised it at the time. I sense this in you and I want to say I hope that you will be able to get through this time without too much self-flagellation. That is more hurtful than what anyone else can say, isn't it? Remember, you're human, it's not all your fault, so be kind to yourself.

My atheist prayers, mantras, positive good earth energy and love flowing out to you.

April 29, 2008
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September 24, 2010
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Hi Tez

I've been thinking of you the whole week-end. So much have come up emotionally reading your thread and experiencing the emotional pain as my own.

So much to share with you. All in good time.

Really wish the best for you Tez.

Be good to yourself

Love

Garfield

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