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Was Jesus Christ a Buddhist saint called Issa?
March 28, 2008
7:58 pm
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Here is a very controversial question that demands at least some attention.

Where was Jesus Christ during those missing biblical years?

Surfing the net using '"lost years" +Jesus' produces many hits that propose that Jesus Christ became a Buddhist 'saint' or at least a Bodhisattva called "Issa".

The url below has a 4 part article that offers some interesting propositions.

However, if your looking for 'proof' about the truth about anything to do with Jesus Christ then you are going to be canoeing up the proverbial creek without a paddle, I'm afraid.

http://www.tsl.org/masters/jes...../front.htm

The question still remains: Where was JC during those missing years?

I suspect that JC was getting an education on his way to enlightenment, Buddhist style. Of course he was engaged in a huge tug-o-war between his own version of the Buddha's teachings and the ancient beliefs of Judaism.

Superimposing upon Judaism the teachings gained from his insights into his own 'Buddha Nature', i.e. his Father, was a mammoth task for Christ. Not avoiding dying on the cross was the ultimate example of living the 'way' and not just talking about it.

In "FAITH IN MIND" Seng T'san, the ancient Buddhist master wrote:

"The Supreme Way is not difficult

If only you do not pick and choose.

Neither love nor hate,

And you will clearly understand.

Be off by a hair,

And you are as far apart as heaven from earth.

If you want it to appear,

Be neither for nor against.

For and against opposing each other --

This is the mind's disease.

Without recognizing the mysterious principle

It is useless to practice quietude.

The Way is perfect like great space,

Without lack, without excess.

Because of grasping and rejecting,

You cannot attain it."

By neither "grasping" nor "rejecting" the obvious outcome of his preaching, Christ showed all of humanity how to live 'The Way'.

How perverted is it for Christ's ignorant followers of that time and since to completely bastardize this beautiful 'walking of the walk' into some distorted perversity based upon the sick Judaistic sacrifice of animals(lambs) to appease an horrific god of their vivid imagination called Yehweh or Jehovah.

Sadly, in my abhorrence of this perversion that I mentioned above, I have more than adequately demonstrated how far away I am from "attaining it" or "the Way", as Christ did. I'm off by at least a 'country mile' and I know it. But at least knowing it is a good start. I know it is not about belief so much as about "the Way" of living and being in the here and now!

"Because of grasping and rejecting,

You cannot attain it"

- this is just one Buddhist road sign to finding 'the Way'. It is so easy to point out but so hard to get one's own deluded mind to 'play ball'. Yet Christ and the Buddhas all succeeded in doing this. What is more to the point they claim that it is within all of our grasp by learning how tonot "grasp or reject" anything yet at the same time living in a certain perfect "Way" as did Christ and the Shakyamuni Buddha. To the non-Buddha mind this seems to be an irreconcilable paradox.

March 28, 2008
8:29 pm
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Here's another interesting write up on the 'missing years' in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....s_of_Jesus

March 28, 2008
10:06 pm
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Someone asked me to look up Ascended Masters on here once and I remember reading something about this or something like this, but that may be another idea if you're interested in checking out that site.

March 28, 2008
11:19 pm
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Hi Tez.

You believe that there is such a thing as a "saint?"

:D!

I am convinced that Jesus lived, and I am convinced that he was an Enlightened Master.

I believe that the Teachings of Jesus are consistently esoteric and mirror esoteric teachings from the Buddhist and to a lesser extent Hindu traditions.

I find it plausible that during the "lost years" Jesus traveled, maybe as far as India was exposed to teachers there that helped him mature as a spiritual master.

But the Perennial Wisdom is attainable and accessible from first cause--which is why Native American Medicine Men can also sound quite a bit like Buddhist monks.

So to me, it does not really matter when and where exactly Jesus honed his philosophical skills or attained enlightenment.

His teachings speak clearly enough by themselves.

Personally, I believe that Jesus achieved Mastery at a very young age, and enlightenment soon after that--around puberty. Then, I think he did what any sensible young Spiritual Master would do--he searched for a superior master.

And I think he wrestled with his conscience and developed his rhetorical and philosophical skills during that time, the "missing years."

And when his strength was at its peak, I believe he submitted himself to his conscience and submitted himself to his understanding of God's will, and returned to serve his people.

March 29, 2008
5:05 am
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WD

You asked:

"You believe that there is such a thing as a "saint?""

Probably not.

What is a saint other than someone that the some religious hierarchy deem to have achieved some level of siddhi powers that enable them to work 'miracles' during their life or after their death?

What is a 'miracle' for that matter other than a happening the cause of which is not understood and therefore attributed by the superstitious to divine, supernatural powers?

Since Buddhist masters don't place store on siddhi powers I doubt that they would call JC a saint anyway. Perhaps they might call him a bodhisattva or perhaps an arahant.

March 31, 2008
1:11 am
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Hi Tez,

Just checking.

I believe Jesus was an Enlightened Master.

And the "miracles" attributed to him aren't what impress me so much.

It's just the Spirit of the guy.

And his Humanity.

March 31, 2008
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Hi WD

Yes, I agree.

I suspect that the Christian authorities know three fifths of five eigths of f..k all about what Christ really knew and taught at depth. That's the impression that I have gained from watching and listening intently to what comes out of their mouths and what they write over many years.

I suspect that Thomas tried to carry Christ's 'real message' but seems to have failed miserably.

Both Christ and Thomas both seem to me to have been aware of the difficulties their followers would have had with Christ's indepth message.

Thomas seems to me to be implying this when he reportedly said in his gospel:

"13. Yeshúa says to his Disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I resemble. Shimon Kefa says to him: Thou art like a righteous angel.
Matthew says to him: Thou art like a philosopher of the heart. Thomas
says to him: Teacher, my mouth will not at all be capable of saying whom
thou art like! Yeshúa says: I'm not thy teacher, now that thou have drunk, thou have become drunken from the bubbling spring which I have
measured out.
And he takes him, he withdraws, he speaks three words to him. Now when Thomas comes to his comrades, they inquire of him: What did Yeshúa say to thee? Thomas says to them: If I tell you even one of the words which he spoke to me, you will take up stones to cast at me--and fire will come from the stones to consume you."

Thomas also said:

"3. Yeshúa says: If those who would lead you, say to you: Behold, the
Sovereignty is in the sky!, then the birds of the sky would precede you. If they say to you: It is in the sea!, then the fish of the sea would precede you. But the Sovereignty of God is within you and it is without you. Those who come to recognize themselves shall find it, and when you come to recognize yourselves then you shall know that you are the Sons of the Living Father. Yet if you do not recognize yourselves then you are impoverished and you are poverty."

This seems to me to be putting Christ's real message up there for all to see - as plain as a pike staff!

Thomas appears to me to be saying unequivocally: "salvation comes from recognizing who you are, seeing your true nature, and your unity with all 'things' beyond which and in which there is no 'thing'. Otherwise you are totally ignorant of 'what is'.". Where in all this is there any 'self' to be found? Can the "Sons of the Father" be divided from the Father? If so what possible demarcation line could possibly maintain this differentiation?

By contrast, how staggeringly distorted and sick is the present day Christian message: "Lord, I am not worthy to enter beneath thy roof. Say only the word and my soul shall be healed."

Disguised under this false 'humility' and duality personified is the sick neuroses, psychological self-flagellation and self-loathing that has so perverted and destroyed the human psyche.

The perversion of Christ's message into that of a blood sacrifice to reconcile a separated, demarcated and sinful humanity with an external, wrathful God-Creator is the work of sick, ignorant, dualistic minds. It is of little wonder that so called Christian nations have been amongst the most warlike throughout history.

The Christian bible needs some serious editing, attenuation and cutting and pasting if it is to resemble and contain even a smidgen of Christ's real message,IMHO.

March 31, 2008
9:36 pm
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Well yeah. Jesus was an esoteric.

March 31, 2008
11:39 pm
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Tez.the above post is a moutfull and screams truth!

"The perversion of Christ's message into that of a blood sacrifice to reconcile a separated, demarcated and sinful humanity with an external, wrathful God-Creator is the work of sick, ignorant, dualistic minds. It is of little wonder that so called Christian nations have been amongst the most warlike throughout history."

The cristian bible already was editted into this perversion. It was a deliberate move by the Roman Catholic Church around 200 AD. and involved many deaths, book burnings, and elimination of all female diocese from practicing within the church. many women lost their stature , as leaders, healers, messengers of the spirit during that time. Once women were illiminated in positions of power , the following centuries saw an absolute slaughter of any who challenged the male dominated beleif system.

What is sadly missing in most religeon is the female symbolism and spiritual importance. Being a vessel that reproduces through GODS will, is it?This is also part of the great perversion that leads people astray.

"her"story continues to be written over; signed with his name, excluded, burned and destroyed for the sake of the male ego and need to control all aspects of living on this earth.

Bring back the goddess to stand by her god, and balance will again settle upon this earth.

April 1, 2008
12:54 am
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I wonder if what was meant by 'grasping and rejecting'? Would that mean that by not wanting (grasping) something or rejecting it, it will be there for you or offered to you?

April 1, 2008
1:38 am
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Sort of like being in the neutral zone...just accepting...rather than the active grasping and rejecting?

April 1, 2008
4:03 am
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Hi red blonde

"I wonder if what was meant by 'grasping and rejecting'?"

I am assuming that you are referring to this statement of mine:

"By neither "grasping" nor "rejecting" the obvious outcome of his preaching, Christ showed all of humanity how to live 'The Way'."

What I was referring to there was finding some depth of meaning in Christ's horrific death on the cross.

Us I understand it and was force fed it as a child, the traditional Christian meaning is that Christ voluntarily died on the cross in reparation for our sins, in order to reconcile God's flawed creation with their Creator.

I've heard a U.S. priest of some public media fame some 25+ years ago, state on an audio cassette that the "cross was the intersection between humanity and divinity".

Christ reportedly knew his fate on the cross. It would hardly take an Einstein intellect to work that out. Now it is being suggested by some that Jesus and Judas conspired to bring it about by secretly organizing his betrayal. The gospels of Judas, I think, are the basis for this conjecture. Is it true? I wouldn't know.

For myself only, I have reconciled Christ's reluctance to run away from his terrible fate only makes sense given that his horrific death served a very powerful purpose. The traditional purpose manufactured by the early church fathers makes me nauseous and is purile drivle, IMHO.

What does make sense to me is that Christ held his death up for all humanity as an exemplar of how to live life by not mentally rejecting that which is inevitable. I'm not suggesting for one moment that the Dalai Lama should lie peacefully down for the Chinese and cop it sweet. I think that the Dalai Lama's response to the Tibetan situation is very appropriate and the best way to serve his people in the long run. Christ was no pussy in the temple in dealing with the money changers. But when it came down to what was best for all of humanity, Christ chose the best (therefore inevitable) path given his mystical insights into who he was and who we are.

April 1, 2008
4:05 am
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Thanks MsGuided for your response. Yes the patriarchal Christian church certainly needs to get in touch with its feminine side without a doubt. More female ministers and priests might be a good start.

April 1, 2008
4:06 am
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WD.

Yep!

April 1, 2008
6:26 pm
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Wow, this certainly has provoked alot of thought from everyone!

Interesting. Will check out the sites listed.

April 3, 2008
5:22 am
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The missing years of Jesus are not missing. Joseph according to tradition was an older man and we do not see him appear in the gospels. Joseph dies after Jesus' 12th birthday in which he has entered into manhood in Jewish culture. At the death of his father Jesus to be a righteous person had to take on the responsibilities of caring for his family which included his mother and several other children. He was a carpenter. He grew in wisdom and knowledge within the Jewish community and under the teaching of the Old Testament. For orthodox believers this means that he lived a sinless life of cared for his family. At his death on the cross he transfers the care of his mother to his friend John.

April 3, 2008
6:09 pm
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Yes this is how "orthodox believers" seem to explain to themselves this glaring 'hole' in the JC story in the bible. It is inteed the 'party line'.

It doesn't satisfy me. There is too much anecdotal 'evidence' equally as probable if not more so that was a lot more to JC's missing years than just building houses. I suspect that a lot of the story was left out by Constantine and his sychophants for political reasons.

Of course if serious research into the missing years was undertaken by the Christian hierarchs it could well result in both weakening of the credibility of their dogmatic beliefs and a loss of their power base.

April 3, 2008
8:36 pm
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I think I can discuss the missing years, but to make Jesus 'Issa' totally relegates him to a non-diety. I cant't do that as I believe he is God. Ya know me Tez. Sorry, but I can't have a discussion about whether he died for nothing, because I beleive that He died for everyone.

I did find some more websites on the internet from geocities.com. I googled 'Jesus as Issa'. It was interesting reading, but the idea was that Jesus learned from Buddha. Jesus's whole ministry was and is today that He is God, so I would think that Buddha would learn from Jesus. The fact that Jesus may have traveled there to India...why not?

But on another note, I am wondering more and more about what Catholicism/Rome did to the Bible. I don't worry much, because I figure God can reach me and does reach me anyway when I read it...but some versions totally lead away from the original Hebrew meaning...and that can be misleading. I have dis-belief with Catholicism, and the Pope, and Rome, and the gold, and the robes, and the rings, etc. They have dictated for so long who they beleive Christ is....or who Mary is....the Bible does not deify Mary, Rome did/does. To me it is way off. Rome is eventually supposed to be destroyed. Rome (do not know whether it refers to Catholicism or not, but it is my guess that it does) in Rev 17 is 'Babylon' and God looks pretty disappointed. It's freaky, do the research and find out. And I do not mean any disrespect for those who are Catholics, truthfully. But as TEZ says, and I agree with him...somewhere along the line things got mighty screwed up. Compare Acts to present day Rome...they are 2 different churches and belief systems. Churches are to built on truth, not what one man tells another to do or say. We have gotten way off track.

Still, I hope others keep discussing your topic Tez. Bevdee used to be able to keep up with you and WD.

I do love ya.

April 4, 2008
4:15 pm
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Some good stuff from the founder of my church... check it out.

About Religious Science
This spiritual community is based on the teachings of Dr. Ernest Holmes, whose classic book, “The Science of Mind” was first published in 1926. He described this teaching as “a correlation of the laws of science, opinions of philosophy, and revelations of religion applied to human needs and the aspirations of all.” This is a positive, practical, and life-affirming teaching. We are recognized as part of the New Thought movement.

We believe that there is one Universal Mind, which is common to every person. We experience this Divine Presence, which many people call God, as our conscious recognition of the power of Life flowing through us. We are beings of thought and emotion, living in a physical universe governed by Love and Law. The most obvious example is the Law of Cause and Effect (“As you sow, so shall you reap.”) We all have the power to choose where we will focus our thoughts, our energy and our attention, and we have the power to choose which emotions we will let control our heart and mind. We exercise this choice, and shape our life, through techniques such as affirmative prayer and meditation.

Cary

April 4, 2008
5:50 pm
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truthBtold
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I sure do miss the PBS series of Bill Moyers interviewing the late Joseph Campbell.......

Now THAT was some compelling conversation!!!!!!

April 4, 2008
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Oh yes.and the church conveniently left out the influence of the female disciples that travelled with christ...destroyed all the written evidence until the Nag hammadi was found in 1945.

http://ancienthistory.about.co.....intro.html

Then there are the caves and tombs that exist in various parts of the middle east, that were buried, and reveal archeological evidence of female dioceses, with the same stature and power as males..before and around christ up to about 150AD women had as much influence, equality and power as men...this is all proven with archeological evidence that was buried and defaced by a diliberate movement to eradicate female influence in the church!!

I'm sorry but the cristian beleif system today is highly flawed and is missing half of what it once was!
It became a religeon that brutalised women and men who didn't follow the backward notions they had.
Cristianity is also a product of previous gods ( Osiris, Dionisis) and religeous tradition that began as pagan.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/.....re_christ/

The roots are in Egypt and Greece, and the evidence is archeological.

Nobody can dispute carvings and hyroglyphs that were created before 1000 AD.

The cross had pagan roots.It wasn't a symbol created and used by cristians, but was stolen/borrowed from pagan beleif to enable assimilation of non-believers.

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/S.....athenb.htm

"The words "cross" and "crucify" are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo. According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, STAUROS denotes, primarily, an upright pole or stake. The shape of the two-beamed cross had its origin in ancient Chaldea and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz. In the third century A.D., pagans were received into the apostate ecclesiastical system and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols.

According to The Companion Bible, crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian Sun-god. The evidence is complete; the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake, not on two pieces of timber placed at an angle.

According to Encyclopaedia Britannica, in the Egyptian churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner.

According to Greek dictionaries and lexicons, the primary meaning of stauros is an upright pale, pole, or stake. The secondary meaning of "cross" is admitted to be a "later" rendering. In spite of the evidence, almost all common versions of the Scriptures persist with the Latin Vulgate's crux (meaning cross) as the rendering of the Greek stauros.

The most accepted reason for the "cross" being brought into Messianic worship is Constantine's famous vision of "the cross superimposed on the sun" in A.D. 312. What he saw is nowhere to be found in Scripture. Even after his so-called "conversion," his coins showed an even-armed cross as a symbol for the Sun-god. Many scholars have doubted the "conversion" of Constantine because of the wicked deeds that he did afterwards.

After Constantine had the "vision of the cross," he promoted another variety of the cross, the Chi-Rho or Labarum. This has been explained as representing the first letters of the name Christos (CH and R, or, in Greek, X and P). The identical symbols were found as inscriptions on rock, dating from ca. 2500 B.C., being interpreted as "a combination of the two Sun-symbols." Another proof of its pagan origin is that the identical symbol was found on a coin of Ptolemeus III from 247-222 B.C.

According to An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Traditional Symbols, the labarum was also an emblem of the Chaldean sky-god. Emperor Constantine adopted the labarum as the imperial ensign. According to Dictionary of Mythology Folklore and Symbols, the symbol was in use long before Christianity. Chi probably stood for Great Fire or Sun. Rho probably stood for Pater or Patah (Father). The word labarum yields "everlasting Father Sun."

Cristianity we know today was a long process that spanned over 3000 yrs.

The concepts of moral beleif within the bible have their sroces from previous religeons.
I for one cannot take any of the bible literally. There is no evidence backing any of it.
There is however plenty of evidence showing it's developement through the centuries to what it became, and what it is today.

Science, archeology and some written evidence makes it so.All you have to do is look outside of the bible.

April 4, 2008
6:27 pm
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Tez..maybe i should of posted this info on one of the cristian threads....excuse this westerners ignorance of Buddhah.

Studying more about the Buddhist beliefs has always been of interest to me. I just never seem to get around to it!
The cristian debate always seems to trump searching beyond.
apologies.

April 5, 2008
8:11 pm
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MsGuided.

No need to apologize for two reasons:

1. I don't own the thread and therefore have no right to dictate who writes what - that is the Site Coordinator's domain.

2. I personally have never believed that deviating from the initial intended theme of the thread is undesirable. good things often come out of veering off topic.

I like Buddhist thought because Buddhism is dedicated to the pursuit of experiential truth about the mind. It is therefore in total harmony with the pursuits and findings of the social sciences such as psychology, socialogy as well as the 'hard core' sciences such as neuroscience and even nuclear physics.

Buddhism is not afraid to find flaws in their documents handed down from the ancient custodians of their beliefs. When it comes to their scriptures or sutras, Buddhists have no such ridiculous beliefs as 'divine inspiration and divine guidance of scribes and church hierarchs'.

In regard to his teachings, the Buddha strongly advised his followers to 'try before you buy' his teachings. He went staggeringly further to say that even his teachings had to eventually be discarded just as as a raft after crossing a river is not carried on dry land for the rest of the journey as a burden. The Buddha even regarded attachment to his teachings as a hindrance, unless viewed as 'a finger pointing to the moon', metaphorically speaking. The Buddha said that letting go of his teachings is the last renunciation of delusions on the way to dwelling in the complete freedom, peace, harmony, and bliss of the no-self Buddha Mind. i.e. complete demolition of that delusive state of mind; a mind state constructed, enshrined and enshrouded by what is known by some as the 'ego'. And how we all fight to protect the boundaries of this ego state to maintain the delusion of its very existence itself. Try crossing some one else's imaginary ego boundaries and watch out!

"Samadhi Raja Sutra

Know all things to be like this:

A miracle, a cloud castle,

A dream, an apparition,

Without essence, but with qualities that can be seen.

Know all things to be like this:

As the moon in a bright sky

In some clear lake reflected,

Though to that lake the moon has never moved.

Know all things to be like this:

As an echo that derives

From music, sounds, and weeping,

Yet in that echo is no melody.

Know all things to be like this:

As a magician makes illusions

Of horses, oxen, carts and other things,

Nothing is as it appears."

- Shakyamuni Buddha.

I believe that most nuclear physicists would wholeheartedly endorse the truth of these words as being beyond dispute.

"Nothing is as it appears."

Take the spoken word as an example of one illusion the Buddha mentions above - ultimately what is it? Is it a thing? The mind creates an illusion of a mental object called a word. When I hear a Chinese word spoken, I hear an unintelligible sound - babble. Upon hearing a spoken Chinese word, the mental object that I create in my head, is very different to the mental object created in the mind of the person fluent in the Chinese language.

If you connect a microphone up to an oscilliscope and view the same spoken word and you will see a complex waveform comprising a mixture of waveforms of several different sinusoudal frequencies and amplitudes. I've done this many times. So when the Chinese word is spoken the microphone sees complex pressure waves consisting of air molecules in motion. But of what does a molecule of air consist? There I go creating more mental objects just like the 'Chinese word' in its lacking of any real substantial essence of its very own!

From a strictly scientific perspective, a careful scrutiny of all creation will reveal that the Buddha is right in what he said in the above sutra - so I believe.

That is why I like the Buddha's teachings as opposed to what human beings do with them in trying to justify the creation of rituals and hocus pocus to satisfy neurotic emotional needs for a feeling of security and well being. The Buddha even spoke against such practices - but this teaching seems to have been overlooked, diminished or interpreted differently by some Buddhist traditions. Generally speaking, I guess we humans, Christian or otherwise, just love ritual. But not this cookie!

April 6, 2008
11:27 am
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It seems I have the inherent Buddhist mentality already.

I never take things at face value unless I've desected, tested and experienced.

I think my next Book purchase will be about Buddhism.
Tez. Can you recommend a tile and author?

April 6, 2008
2:57 pm
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Hi Tez

What you said on Thomas was very interesting for me. I looked up the Greek meaning of the name and found this

"New Testament name, borne by one of Christ's twelve Apostles, referred to as 'Thomas, called Didymus'. Didymos is the Greek word for 'twin', and the name is the Greek form of an Aramaic byname meaning 'twin'. The given name has always been popular throughout Christendom, in part because St Thomas's doubts have made him a very human character"

Garfield

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