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Varieties of Human Sexual Experience - Part II
February 2, 2005
11:21 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Okay, before the hot specific act from page one gets kicked around again, I thought I would take advantage of the awesome power of being a thread originator to give us a little frame.

There are SOME people who desire no sex, or very little sex in their lives, for one reason or another. Sometimes it is a medical problem--medications or depression or physical ailments or just the way people are can lead to very low libido. And that has to be okay. The problem for those people is how to have satisfying relationships.

Your average person wants an average amount of sex of an average variety. And that has to be okay, too. Those people do very well when partnered with a person of similar constitution and similar desires.

I would guess though, that quite a few people wish they could have a better sex life. They might want more sex in their life or better sex or more variety of sexual expression or....well, you get the idea.

It seems to me that pain and confusion happens when two people with different libidos or different desires, or different amounts or types of experience get together.

Then we get questions like

"Is what I want normal?"

"Is what he/she wants normal?"

"Is this okay/healthy/sick/wrong/dangerous?"

"Is this a man/woman thing?"

"Are men and women the same/different in this regard?"

"How can I get him/her to want to try what I want?"

"How can I get him/her to NOT want to try
that?"

"Why does he/she want to do that?"

"Do I have to?"

"How can I please my partner?"

and of course "How do you do it?"

I'm sure we can think of more questions. I think all questions of this sort are valid, worthwhile and fascinating.

There you have it. I have tried to, not so much open a can of worms, as to create a space where several previously opened cans of worms can be deposited and happily wriggle.

Well, my work here is done. And now for....wait, what's that my super hearing is detecting? It's Timmy, he's in trouble! Gotta fly.

February 2, 2005
11:25 pm
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on my way
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LOL, I love this!!!

February 2, 2005
11:26 pm
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addicts wife
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THSNK YOU for stering this over !!!
I think that it all comes down to personal prefernce... Curiosity, and for some find a lot of pleasure ...
I think it depends on preference(s), and howwell you communicate/ connect with the person/people you are intimate with.... Some poeple work better together than others..etc.

February 2, 2005
11:37 pm
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on my way
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After all of the conversations, I can safely say that it is between two people , and two people only. What ever floats your boat, c'est la vie, enjoy..or not..and these are conclusions I have come too, by reading the other threads. And I so enjoy having a male perspective on this subject, so thank you WD, & PL! You both are absolutely awesome.

Opinion: Sex is personal.

February 3, 2005
12:12 am
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Anal Sex—An AAC Perspective

On this board, mainly women have replied to the infamous previous thread on the subject. Some of you, thanks to the miracle of electronic anonymity and my own inattentiveness, are of unknown gender.

So far, from confirmed women I have 2 positive expressions,
Then we have 4 confirmed women giving firm “no way Jose”

And one guy who feels it’s just not healthy from a psychological point of view.

As far as I can tell, the overwhelming response from the board, from a moral/psychological health point of view is “It’s okay if both partners want it.”

It’s hard to say where Aces is in all of this. Aces—her experience was unfortunately with a sadistic, woman hating scumbag, so it’s hard to separate her experience of “the act” from her basic, healthy revulsion towards a guy who can be best described as Satan’s gift to women.

What an accepting, open minded bunch we are.

Which still leaves the question of “Why in the world would he want to do this?”

And the even more interesting question of “What do I do about it?”

February 3, 2005
1:03 am
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workinonit
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Thank God! I found the right thread!!!! Who hooo

Hey, I have had positive experiences with anal sex. Now, this does not happen often but, as cuthul said on the first thread, the last time I did this it was the most intense experience I ever had!!!!!! I kid you not ladies! But, the only way to approach this is completely relaxed and available (trying not to say open) LOL

If you are interested in the most awesome orgasm of your life, go there. But, I also agree with someone who said this is not an all the time thing. It is sort of spontaneous and you really really need to be relaxed.

Ok, that's all I have to add and as far as I'm concerned sex is great!!!!

February 3, 2005
1:06 am
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cuthul
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Interesting topic indeed.

In my opinion, the only question one should be asking, is: "Is it right for you and is it right for your partner"

I view sex, as a gift between two people. Its a merging, a union. Its the stuff countless of works of art have been inspired by, and something that we are all caipible of expressing and giving in our own fashion. It is simply, tho those open to it, the most imtimate, trusting thing we can do, not to mention the mind boggling pleasure it can induce.

That said, is it possible to say a deffinitive end all be all phrase about what is acceptable and waht is not? Its going to be tough, as the ammount of ways to express ones self in this fashion is as varied and unique as the people involved.

The only thing we can say, is that people have been haveing sex, in every way, position, and ratios for a long time.

Consensuality needs to be key here. That goes without saying. And that means not just haveing the consent of your partner, but haveing the consent of yourself. It is going to be difficult, for example, to reach your sexual potential if you are uncomfortable with the look or shape or whatever of your own body.

Now, getting on to topic, what is acceptable. I think, just about every form of sexual expression is ok, but has the potential for abuse.

A real interesting subculture is that of BDSM. Is it ok to tie someone up, beat them, and then have sex with them? Wow. Sounds a lot like rape, huh? Now go back a few paragraphs, are read what I said about consentuality. Absolutley imperatively critical in this culture. In fact, the ammount of trust it takes in a D/s relationship (thats Dominant/submissive for the vanilla) for this to happen is immense. It can also be immensely psychologicaly satisfying for BOTH sides. Taking this example, the trust the submissive must have in the Dom is extreemly intense. The potential of abuse is very real. The Dom on the flip side, is even more contrained than the sub in many ways. It is the Doms responsiblity to read the sub, to make sure no lasting injury happens, to make sure restraint is absolutely being adhered to. In many cases, sex and fetish never meet, but when it does, the psychological bond this trust creates, (not to mention the extra endorphins) can make the sex incredibly good.

So, in the right situation, this is good for the right people.

Same can be said for anal, vaginal, tantric, group, homosexual, and probably a dozen other forms of sex I havent even heard of. IE it is really up to the individuals.

Heh, a long way to say pretty much nothing new. ;p

February 3, 2005
1:19 am
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workinonit
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Well P, I agree with your perspective but will say many fantasies are best left in the imagination. For instance, to talk about tying a person to the bed posts might be all that is necessary for arousal. Or, telling a person whatever you'd like or like to do can drive a person crazy!

Of course consentual sex is the only way to pursue fantasies, fetishes or whatever. No means no, man or woman. In my personal situation trust was the decision makier for me. I did not feel degraded. I felt loved and appreciated. Probably intensified the reaction. Again, it is not something I would indulge in with just any man but I will not be afraid again when the time is right!!!!

February 3, 2005
1:32 am
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I think the real question, when it comes to entertaining the idea of sexual transgression be it in anal sex, group sex, voyeurism, etc. is why?

Why does a more extreme type of sex provide more endorphines than just regular bread and butter sex. Why are some people more prone to have "perverted" sex and why do they consider it to be better.

February 3, 2005
1:38 am
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workinonit
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Wow PL are you calling me perverted?

February 3, 2005
2:00 am
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Workin,

Only you can attest to whether or not you are perverted. One could say that people who engage exclusively in the missionary position are perverted.

Let's say that the couple having sex in the missionary position say that they're doing it because it is the "correct" way but are actually doing it because it contains a man in the dominant position and a woman in the submissive position.

Their missionary style has a hidden meaning known only to one or the both of them as they engage in intercourse. They present it to each other, and perhaps an imaginary onlooker, as the correct way but it's meaning is contained in a dominant-submissive play.

Consider that this couple's sex is a perverse scenario. It is something else, asside from what it appears to be.

February 3, 2005
2:09 am
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workinonit
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PL, I was kidding. I really feel comfortable with myelf as a sexual being. If I thought for one minute you were judging me and it bothered me, I probably would not have responded.

I agree, what is one persons perception is another fun. I suppose it all goes back to the comment, if you are all right with an act it is all right to pursue!

The correct way is what feels right and obviously, GOOD!!!!

February 3, 2005
2:12 am
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Phalic_Liberator
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Right. But I think a lot of people engage in the behavior without asking if there is a hidden meaning.

I knew you weren't taking me seriously but I did want to take the oppurtunity to introduce my concept of perversion and that seemed like a perfect oppurtunity.

February 3, 2005
2:16 am
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Oh you guys.

Let me wax narcissistic just long enough to get a word in edgewise.

My original training was psychology. And Painting.

I'm no professional psychologist.
I'm no professional painter.

"Real" psychologists and "real" painters can run rings around me in those subjects.

That doesn't mean that I can't give reasoned opinions on those subjects.

It does mean I need to be realistic and humble and not over represent myself.

Next I became a nurse. Beyond nursing skills, and a grounding in medicine, what that training gave me was a grounding in how clinical process works, and what medical ethics is all about.

Then I got some more training in psychology. Then I did some more self-study on the subject. So while I am not a professional psychologist, I am a psychologist in the sense that I am also a painter. Not a bad painter, either. Not a great one, but not a bad one.

And you know what? The more I know, the more I know how much I don't know. There are people on this board without any medical training at all who know more than me about some aspects of psychology and social work.

And there are people on this board, who simply by virtue of having spent time in the hospital as patients have a lot to teach me about being a nurse.

I am pleasured and awed by my own learning and wisdom. I am even more displeasured and awed by my own ignorance. What I don't know fills libraries. It's okay.

The cutting edge for me is always to be conscious of just how far my understanding goes and where it comes to a precipitous, jagged end. If I have gotten any wisdom it is that I need to be able and willing to skate juuust to the edge, then turn and go...wow, I guess I don't quite know what that piece of ice is like. It's called humility. False humility is actually a form of arrogance.

But you know what I have done for a living for the last.....jeez, I guess it's going on 18, 19 years now? (Please, no jokes about how old I am.)

I have the privilege of being able to call myself a card-carrying professional Research Scientist. So while there are many, many things that a person might question my qualifications to expound upon, punctuation for example, when it comes to talking about "Research," that is, what it means, how it is done, I really, really know my shit. To quote Bill Murray in Ghost Busters, "Back off man, I'm a Scientist."

So I gotta tell you guys, this little detour to me is

1) a slightly interesting correction of a guy who slightly over represented his credentials, knowledge and understanding.

2) An entry into the very, very interesting issue of what constitutes "research," what is the nature of AUTHORITY, true knowledge, etc. It's such a good issue I think we should have a whole 'nother thread about it.

3) A very annoying detour from the subject of SEX!

There. I said it. Sex Sex Sex Sex Sex!

....Oh, posts since I started this post. Oh good. I'm serious. Lets go to the sex thread. In fact....

February 3, 2005
2:17 am
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See what you made me do? I posted in the wrong thread. How embarrassing.

February 3, 2005
2:21 am
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PL,

Man you make it hard to respond to you without making fun of ya.

No offence but you strike me as someone who thinks a lot about sex, reads a lot about it, but you come off as far too intelectual about it, but its pretty obvious you use your intellect as a defence. So be it.

My opinion? You need to meet the Darth Vader of TnA, get tied up, and shown the Dark Side of love. Go do some homework and report back to us. Go to a club, get tied up and have some luscious Domme paddle your lil but, tease you, and see how you react. Then come back and ask some non obvious questions.

Seriously, from a intellectuals point of view, you should know that the body processes pain and pelasure with similar endorphins and neural paths. It should also be logical that, as blood rushes to the skin from a shallow impact (read slap) the skin becomes more sensitive. Those factors alone should lend scientific merit to the rationalization that the sex may physically be more intense. Nevermind the psychological factors.

What makes sex good is the art of it. It is the expression, the full commitment to the act, however that manifests.

Um, regarding the situation you described. Perverse is hardly how I would describe it. Sounds more like Morman to me. I personaly, would probably get bored of that partner in about 5 seconds if that was the height of her sexual creativity.

February 3, 2005
2:21 am
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I'm sure you didn't post on the wrong thread. Perhaps it was just somewhat freudian of you.

February 3, 2005
2:36 am
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Regarding the last post. I'm glad I'm hard to make fun of but that shouldn't stop you.

You should also know that I have done enough sexual "field work" to know what I like, don't like, and want to try and there is still a lot of stuff I want to try.

You're also right in that I think about sex A LOT.

I don't like sadism, per se. When I was very young I used to fantasize about paraphalic piquerism but I grew out of that.

I know some people who can do sado-masochism and be none the worse for it but it isn't for me. I don't like the theme of the role-playing and I don't like even pretending to de-value myself or another. About as far as I'm willing to go in those directions is switching between dom-sub (Simon says, truth or dare, etc.)

I do like things that feel good and at the top of my list in sexual ideals is the phrase "Do no harm."

That means: no cheating, no embarrassment (of the other person), no perversion (pretending that any activity I engage in is something other than it really is), no dishonesty, and no STD's. And, as to not forget, know why I'm doing it.

February 3, 2005
2:50 am
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cuthul,

I dont know if you are a man or a woman--and I dont care--but I really like where you are going with some of this...

Like this part

"What makes sex good is the art of it. It is the expression, the full commitment to the act, however that manifests."

That's the humanity of it. It's what makes us different than, and in my opinion better than, the birds and the bees. Buzz buzz. Chirp Chirp. Where's the sport in that?

February 3, 2005
3:00 am
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Cuthulu,

I'm always leary of people who recomend that I need to do something to improve myself or make statements that have anything to do about my perception of self. You want to rock on this site, go right ahead. I just got done living with one of you and I refuse to endure that experience again.

You're a bully. BKC, Cuthulu, whoever you are, you are a bully. Deep down inside you are an empty, souless mess.

Good luck to you! Know who you are.

February 3, 2005
11:05 am
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Phalic? Sex thread? Hello?

February 3, 2005
11:19 am
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I'm not cuthulu, and I'm not a bully.

February 3, 2005
11:43 am
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Okay, back to the urgent matter at hand.

While it is true that any person can have a bad attitutde, be a woman hater, a sadist so far, most of the "acts" we've talked about so far do not really have an explanation based in deep, sick psychology. We don't have to get Freudian.

Take anal sex for example. We have found out on this board that some women and men like it, some are repelled by the idea, some might no mind except it hurts them when they try it, and most seem to say "whatever is mutually agreed upon and gets your mototr going--go for it."

Take me for example. See, the problem with any kind of sex is that it implies intimacy, trust, and close physical contact. And Trust. And intimacy. And trust. and trust. So while deep down inside I'm a loving, romantic liberal, lusty sex machine my recent experiences have left me in a condition such that I would rather read about it or talk about it than actually do it. Any woman who wants to get close to me will have to probably be very patient and kind and go slowly and build trust before I'm willing to put anything anywhere, know what I mean?

Unless of course she is the Statue of Liberty or the kind of crazy cute librarian of lust that my erotic defenses are helpless against.

But back to the idea of specific acts which our partners want but are a stretch for us. Remember my paradigm form Dan Savage who described a good lover as 3G's: Good, Giving and Game....

The fact is, that all activities are not equally enjoyable for eveyone. And it is not always feasible for both partners to be equally pleasured simultaneously. So sometimes, you have to take turns.

For example, some women just do not get a particular thrill from sexual intercourse. I know several women who basically just don't do it. They are hands-only gals, and will reserve that more intimate activity for a guy who is really really comitted.

Now say you are a guy who wants your female partner to be happy. Maybe she really needs manual or oral stimulation to get hot or acheive climax. Some people call that foreplay. But those activites provide absolutely no physical pleasure for the man. Now do you ladies feel guilty about your parter needing to spend 10, 20, 30 minutes engaged in an activity on your behalf that gives him no physical pleasure?

I hope not, because there is more to lovemaking than instantaneous physical pleasure. Knowing we are pleasing our partner can be pleasurable. Watching and hearing and feeling our partner being pleased can give pleasure. Loving our partner can give pleasure.

And on the recieving end, it can be quite a turn on knowing that your partner is, in an act of generosity, going the extra mile on our behalf. And loving it.

Well, that's it for now. I just thought it would be worthwhile to things a more general theory of lovemaking frame before plunging in to specific tissues. No, sorry issues. Oh, sorry I meant probing. I mean delving. Delving into specific issues. There that works. That's what I meant.

February 3, 2005
12:15 pm
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WD,

Do you honestly mean to say that you get no stimulation by getting your partner off? I don't believe you for a minute! You are a sensitive and caring man. I imagine you would go down on a woman and come up very aroused because you know how you are making her feel--all a wonderful part of sex!

Maybe I should only speak for myself here...

I love to feel my partner become aroused--male or female. It is a HUGE turn-on for me because as I'm touching my partner, I know how I would be feeling if the same thing were being done to me. I try very, very hard to make sure that I cover all the bases because that's what I would want. If my partner wants to try something new, I'm down with it. How will I know I don't like it if I have never tried it?

I have experimented in many different ways. Me and two of my best female friends once took a young man to bed and we all had a great time. (And the way he held up was admirable...) I have had two men while in a hotspring, I've been tied up and "spanked", and I've given a few spankings. I only have a couple of unfulfilled sexual fantasies and at 41, I'm pretty proud to say that because I think most people, women especially, are made to think that doing such things is "wrong" or "perverted". Shame on us for being so hard and judgmental towards each other in such a private matter! As long as both parties are consenting (or in my case, all three or four parties--hee hee hee!) what difference does it make?

Now, were all these experiences about intimacy and closeness? Well, no. Most of them were about fun and experimentation. If I find a friend who is comfortable enough to go there with me, I'll go. Hey, I'm not getting any younger, and I'm no kind of eye candy so I figure if we're both comfortable I better get it while I can!

I have had sex with a video camera aimed at my partner and me with it hooked up to a TV so we could watch ourselves. I once kissed every woman at a table (about 10) in a bar while holding a jalapeno in my mouth. That same night I let a woman use her mouth to put ice on my nipple so I could show everyone the nipple jewelry a friend made for me--hey, they asked for the demonstration... I have gotten off in a movie theater, hot tub, and pool. Isn't sex SUPPOSED to be fun?!!?

I like to incorporate toys, food, dressing up, and yes, even drugs into sex play. Am I a degenerate? By some standards, yes. Do I care about those standards? It would appear that I do not.

So, c'mon. Spill your beans. We're safe here. It's anonymous. What is your experience? Why did you visit this thread? What haven't you done that you fantasize about?

I'll tell if you will--hell, you know I'll tell!!!

Love to all, (if I only had the time!)

Ren'ai

February 3, 2005
12:28 pm
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There was a fascinating debate about porn here at my campus between none other than Ron Jeremy (who has a Master's degree in special education, no less) and Susan Cole (frigid president of some chapter of NOW).

Ironically 90% of the audience was pro-porn...I suppose anti-porn people by nature have already made up their minds?

Pornography is the depiction of sexual fetishistic fantasies. But to me there are certain things that cross the line. Bestiality, child porn, that weird fetish where men like to see women pop balloons by sitting on them....

In a sense whatever you do behind closed doors is your business, but the reasons why you do them are more important.

I have a lot of sex. A lot. But mostly it's a drug for me, like getting any other fix, I like getting high, sex is no different - so in a sense, this is "wrong" and "perverted".

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