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Use to enjoy this site......
June 14, 2005
12:10 pm
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sewunique
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Peace, and Deena,

Good morning. You asked me Peacesoul, that I quote you correctly or to paraphrase you correctly. Fair enoungh, I would have corrected this had I not re read your post, and now I see Deena implies the same thing as you do. So in review, this is what you wrote;

"...Had my therapist coddled me for months, I would still be whimpering. Also, it's been 10 months that Luv has not been with his ex, isn't it time he TRY to move on. Isn't time someone tells him like it is? He needs "tough love".

So if you did not state directly here that this time frame was time enough, you implied it. Fair enough?

I am not going to banter this idea further, as SC just did a splendid job (again) explaining all this today. And I am not going to join the bandwagon here to banter this further. I am only addressing your post back to me here.

I have only been attempting to share my viewpoints on how things can be said, how they may be percieved, and what, how or to talk or what NOT to say when someone is threatening, attention seeking, or desparate with suicide talk or attempts. I am trying to share with you what professional experience I have with suicide and depression. That is all I have been attempted to offer here.

Because you have stated that you want to be straight out, tough love, to tell it as it is, Deena, I will attempt to be straight out with your recent post to InPain. What and how you said here is in a rude tone, sarcastic and not at all kind. You wrote a good example how NOT to write with empathy,and in a caring manner, as Site Cordinator stated here today. What you wrote is offending, to the reader.

I suggest Deena and Peacesoul that you both look inwards to why you are so hard and unbending here with opening up and recieving what we have been trying to share with you? You might even come back to your own posts at a later date, maybe even a couple months from now, and review what and how you present yourself to others, as it may be helpful to seek what makes you so firm and unbending and not receptive to what has been offered here to you?

I do not mean to repeat what you have said here, SC. Am just responding back to the post Peace wrote to me and felt I needed to do this.......this is a part of my growth as well, right? (smiling)

Besides, just to support what SC has stated here, as sometimes it takes a repeated effort of what is said for some people to 'get it' or to say it more kindly, .....to finally be able to hear what has been said.

Peace,

Sew

June 14, 2005
12:15 pm
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Peacesoul,

I think you're missing the point, and also violating something I've asked.

If you have a grudge w/ something I say, please take it in email. If you have a grudge w/ someone else here, simply say it, no need to yell or repeat.

Defense, trying to prove points, place blame, attacks back, are not welcome on this site, and we have covered this. Please, listen to what others have written rather than try to prove something.

I won't tolerate this kind of aggression towards me, or anyone else on these threads. I told luv2luvher yesterday, that this thread was abusive, irresponsible and unkind. Now I'm telling you, that these posts are also in bad flavor. No more.

SC

June 14, 2005
12:17 pm
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sewunique
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Peace,

Yes, what Luv said was insulting, in a way. And he has apologized for this. He has apologized more than once for this AND explained what dire stragihts he was in and so on and so forth. Can you let this go?????

Sew

June 14, 2005
12:17 pm
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peacesoul
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Well then SEW, let me then repeat myself so you get what I said.

I said there are some folks after being told MANY times a certain thing and they JUST DO NOT LISTEN.
Do these people need to be told the same things over and over for years and sit in their misery over the same issue for years and years?!

At some point people have to be told the truth. Sounds to me like you are afraid of the truth. I happen to NOT be afraid of the truth or to tell the truth...I do however tell the truth with compassion.

You do not know me in the least, so you cannot say I am "unbending".

You obviously have not read too many of my posts.
There is a point I will stop coddling and start to get real with others on here.

Sew, I suggest also to you that you look inward to find out why you are so afraid of the truth.

June 14, 2005
12:22 pm
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peacesoul
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nah, no grudge....But I will continue to offer the same helpful and truthful advice I've always have.

I don't want this drama that Luv started....I was just trying to help those in denial see reality, but like someone very bright on this board (KC) always says, denial will come to those when they are ready.

June 14, 2005
12:32 pm
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Peacesoul,

Your post to Sew is extremely aggressive - nasty, condescending, yelling, and I'd say too, unbending. It is not aligned with this site's mission.

What some call denial, is time that they need. Your experiences & life trials are different than others. We cannot believe that we know another person's solutions, problems, fears, pains. It's arrogant to think so. Telling others to get over something is very unfair, and is non-helpful.

* And most importantly * (as I wrote above this morning) This site is to focus on OURSELVES, not on others. Focus, on *OURSELVES*. Not, others. If we are here mainly for others, we should not be here.

I ask that you (peacesoul) stop posting for the day, instead send me an email if you'd like. Please also read my post a couple above here.

Please, take a break from the site is my request.

SC

June 14, 2005
12:34 pm
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Take Heart
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(((Sew)))

It seems like some people are tearing you to shreds here and for that I'm very sorry. I am not going to make much comment except to say that you are a kind and caring person and I agree 100 per cent with your posts.

Telling people to get a grip, is not a thoughtful and caring thing to say. It is insensitive. This is not about being afraid to hear the truth or even about getting a grip, but hell if someone is feeling so desperate and emotionally weak then they need a gentle approach, at least to begin with.

June 14, 2005
12:42 pm
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Peace,

Well I am going to say something here you that may surprise you by my saying it here and now after this other posting today. But I have been wanting to share it with you, so here it goes.

First, I have seen how when you post, in general, how your tone and what you say in other posts has a much calmer, kinder and softer approach rather than harsh. Sometimes we do not see our own growth and it helps by others sharing that. I shared that with a friend here and she never realized it; went back to her beginning posts and was amazed how far ahead she had grown. I have read my posts (which is hard by the way) from last Oct and Nov and am amazed myself at my own personal growth here.

So I am being honest here in what I see about your posts of late in other threads, in general. So I am not smoozing you here with your above post. I just want to share this ovbservation with you.

Okay, back to your post to me. The truth? Sure am afraid of the truth sometimes...........it is called denial. It is a self defense mechanism we use when confronted by trauma or fear. Perfect example of denial.........look in Libs to my thread WD started with my nickname. There is denial. But I worked hard and continue to do so and in life in general with other things. A life's journey, my path to truth, freedom of fears and to further peace.

So rather than trying to defend what you just said to me any further, I will say this; I have seen here often when people are stuck on something, or come across harshly, that often, vey often, there is more withiin that person than they sometimes realize. Sometimes we are triggered by what is said or subject matter. Hapens to me all the time too. Perhaps why I feel I 'need' to defend Luv.....am eldest child syndrome. There, that is some truth.

No, we do not know each other other than here. So the 'unbending' was a word I used in trying to explain what I was saying to you.

I certainly agree that after a while that people do need the truth. But don't they need that from the start, that is only fair to them. But sometimes, we do not 'hear' what or how we are saying, tho' it is our own words. Am just trying to be helpful and giving my view, that is all.

Is this better to our understanding of each other, or not?

Peace,

Sew

June 14, 2005
12:43 pm
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jamaicanwife
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sewunique: we do need extra drama in our lives. Just ignore this thread, and move forward. Always forward.

June 14, 2005
12:44 pm
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Sorry, my first post was missing a very important word -

sewunique: we do NOT need extra drama in our lives. Just ignore this thread, and move forward. Always forward.

June 14, 2005
12:47 pm
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Deena
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glittered...what's the irony? Call me stupid but what's the point? You know me...tell me like it is? SO, what are you TRYING to say?

Peace...I'll catch up with you sometime. I guess some just don't get it. We'll be here fighting this "keep it real" battle forever. I forgot the way the world works. Fake Fake and Fake.
For what it's worth..I think we are on the same page but a completely different book than these folks here.

And SEW....how many times are you going to apologize or explain your post to the SC? Say what you gotta say. Yeah and you are right. My tone...RUDE. at this point. you got it. Why is it tolerated for him (inpain) to say what he feels but not for me? MAybe you need to GET A GRIP as well.

Anyone else wanna jump on the bandwagon against me and Peace?

June 14, 2005
12:50 pm
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sewunique
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Geez, what happened while I was trying to post here?

Taking Tylenol ES tabs ii q 4 hrs. for relief, and anyone else who may need it.

Just trying to lighten up here, we all get so intense, sometimes when things are from our heart and experiences.

Peace,

Sew

June 14, 2005
12:59 pm
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sewunique
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Deena,

I feel what you said and how you said it to me was uncalled for. This site is not about stirring up anger against others. Please address what you have to say to me with some thought provoking ideas, suggestions and what is on your mind, in an adult or mature manner.

I do not believe I was or attempting to be sappy apologizing or over riding SC's post; just being considerate and respectful of the Site Coordinator's views, guidelines and as owner of this site.

Sew

June 14, 2005
1:08 pm
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Deena...

I guess I've missed a lot of your posts, because if they are as you have described above, and as you have exampled above, I would have said something sooner.

I have a serious question to ask, and some honest/'brutal' feedback to give to you.

Question: Do you honestly think that telling someone to break up w/ their boyfriend/girlfriend, get over it, move on, get a grip, etc are going to be listened to, or even slightly helpful? Do you honestly want to help or just tell? Do you honestly, I'm serious, think you're being helpful? Are your intentions to be helpful, or just to make the point that people are stupid for not listening to golden advice?

My 'honest/brutal feedback' to you (if you like that kind of feedback): I think your approach is a mean, controlling, and non-helpful approach to helping people. It is real feedback, from me. Your feedback, to others here, is mean, controlling, arrogant, and completely non-helpful. Your post above, is abusive, aggressive, snarling, just downright mean, attacking, defensive, all kinds of manipulative crap rolled into one.

Now, that's some seriously honest & brutal feedback. Is it helpful? I don't think so. Are any of us able to 'help you', or 'give you' feedback that will get you out of this angry abusive rut? I rather think it will induce more aggression, fan flames, etc. No? But it's honest feedback. Not done in a helpful or teaching nature. I could do it so, but I'm trying to elicit an example instead.

God help me!! mama, et al say a prayer. And angel, please make me one of those razza banana's.

SC

June 14, 2005
1:24 pm
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Note: This thread has been moved to the liberation brew threads from the support threads.

June 14, 2005
1:27 pm
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kc30
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18 months ago, when my life blew apart, I was an emotional basketcase. Pacing, smoking, not eating, not sleeping, obsessing constantly, terrified, constant "fight or flight" response.

My husband was cheating on me. I knew it but didn't know it. I couldn't believe it. Not my husband. I couldn't take it. My life, my dreams, my love, my family, torn apart? NO. I couldn't take it.

"But I love him. But we're married. This can't be happening. I want my life back". This is where I lived.

I COULD NOT handle the reality of the situation. I bordered on a nervous breakdown, and if it hadn't been for 2 of the most caring people I have ever known, who paid to put me and my children on a plane and fly us across the country and away from the insanity I was living, I damn well would have had a nervous breakdown.

Do you know what I heard from my "friends" during that time? He's an asshole. Get over it. He's not worth it. Why are you so hung up on this. You "should" be doing this and you "should" be doing that.

So, here I am, at the LOWEST point in my life, and what am I hearing? That I'm wrong, stupid, pathetic...that I'm doing it wrong, shouldn't be feeling what I'm feeling, shouldn't be doing what I'm doing...should be doing something else. This is not what they wanted me to hear. They wanted to help. They failed miserably.

This did nothing to help my shattered sense of self. And it damaged friendships and many of those have still never recovered.

Do you know what helped? The friends who just listened, and empathized, and understood. They told me "of course you feel that way! Look at what has happened to you" They validated me...helped me see that I was worth something, and that my feelings counted. And that was the first step towards me feeling strong enough and safe enough to begin to process the reality of the situation before me.

I believe in being real, in being human, and in being kind.

I don't know what it is like to walk in someone else's shoes because I've never been there...and NOBODY knew what it was like to walk in mine. So who the hell gave my friends the right to look down on me...to judge me and criticize the choices I made in my own life. What made them so wise and knowledgeable as to be experts on MY life? Didn't they have their own shit to look after in theirs?

Were they speaking the truth? Of course! He is an asshole...I do need to get over it. But 18 months later I'm still not over it.

It's true, whether it should be this way or not, you catch more flies with honey.

I believe if I really want to help someone, they need to feel safe with me....they need to know that they are ok, they are important, and their feelings are appropriate. How can you face an unbelievably painful reality when you feel put down by the people who are "helping" you?

This is my truth. I agree with the SC on this one.

Deena and Peace...I love you girls...you're two peas in a pod, and I've seen you on top of your game on these threads.

Why are you so defensive about this? Does it feel personal because people aren't agreeing with your position? You mentioned you feel ganged up on...but Peace, you know we're pals and I wouldn't gang up on you. So whassup girl? Why are you in the middle of another kafuffle here...don't you like coming and chatting with us gals? 🙂 Seriously guys...what is up with this?

Just curious
kc

June 14, 2005
1:30 pm
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You all,

I have a son who goes into depression, deep depression, frequently. He does NOT want advice, he barely wants to talk, and he cannot help but "dwell" on it as when he is extrememly depressed, there is no power within to do anything...even to feel sometimes anything at all.

So a very serious matter with Luv, I believe for his sake is to be handeled with kid gloves.

Luv, please take care of yourself as best you can right now. We do care, and hope that you do not feel alone.

omw

June 14, 2005
1:34 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Prayer goin up sc (((sc)))

Also sew, (((hugs)))) you hang in there girl. Take a break. This is not worth the waste of your fingers.

June 14, 2005
1:45 pm
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kc30
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Saying something like "it's not worth the waste of your fingers" implies that Peace and Deena aren't worth anyone's time?
Was that the hidden message or have I misconstrued. That is how it sounded anyways.

I am very guilty of being over-emotional...not so much now but definitely in the past. i would often get very defensive when someone questioned or disagreed with me. Why? Because I'm codependant and I took it personally. Because my self-esteem was non-existent and I couldn't handle anyone looking down on me, so I lashed out.

Not sayign that is what Deena, Peace, luv or anyone else has done, but I've done it, so I can relate to it. And even at my worst, I have to believe that I was "worth" it...that I wasn't a "waste" of fingers, or breath.

I am sure there is a way for us to support each other without insulting each other. None of us are in any position to judge, and sometimes I think it's possible we just don't know how deep words can cut another person. If we did understand, we would be more careful?

just mho...

kc

June 14, 2005
1:58 pm
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sewunique
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Thanks all for your kindness to me. But I am okay, ok?

Honestly, I do think I have exhausted what more I can and feel I can write here. I think Peace, Deena and with kc, you guys (ladies)can work this out. There is much going on here and much you can gain from it, so I will bow out and you three gals/pals can work it out. Sounds like there is a great break thru that is possible here!

Oh! I added a bit to the thread about 'brutal honesty'. An interesting thread, as well.

As ever,

Sew

June 14, 2005
2:04 pm
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sewunique
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MamC,

Thanks for your support, but please, in trying to be kind here, and don't get sensitive on me, okay? You know I care about you and would not wish to say anything negative to you, either.

But I do think it is worth it from what I wrote and the time given to Peace and Deena, or I wouldn't have written what I did to them. I do think they are worth it in what they have to say, or I wouldn't have responded. I do care about them, as with all who post here, in our AAC family, if we wish to call it that.

But, for now, this is my day off as I do have to work the weekend, so I am going back to my housework here.

Take care, peace and hugs,

Sew/C

June 14, 2005
2:07 pm
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hey KC,

Thanks for posting. You're right that Deena & Peacesoul are worthy of time.

Here's my point from my previous post:

I can tell someone who's in a bad relationship to 'get out', and if they don't, I can 'get vocal or forceful about it' cuz I know damn well that's what they ought to do! duh! I can also tell somene who uses anger to get things done/protect themselves, to 'stop being so aggressive & realize the harm their doing'... but do either one help? What would help?

Of most important note (3rd time I'll make reference of it today): These threads are for OURSELVES. We needn't go out of our way to help others, rather help ourselves and lo & behold, we vicariously help others in the process.

As an aside to answer peacesoul's unfriendly remark (that's feedback, it was unfriendly), I do make it all up as I go along here - not to be sarcastic, but I don't know of a manual written on this subject, at least not in April 1998 when these threads began. These policies were 'made up' years ago, by me - not kidding. It's nothing new, I've had this recipe for a while, and I'll keep adding a little salt or pepper when needed.

Fact: Old Guideline Read: "Focus on yourself. Talk only about yourself. Focusing on others only recyles problems."

Peace.

June 14, 2005
2:21 pm
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mamacinnamon
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OK. It most definitely has come across wrong.

I did not mean that anyone is a waste of finger time. Everybody here is equal and is deserving. Sew, same to you. I am not saying what you say is a waste of fingers.

What I mean is.... ya know, I don't think I can say what I mean and it comes across right at this point so let's just leave it at.... I apologize to KC, Sew, Deena, Peacesoul, and anyone else that took my little sentence as wrong.

As SOK. It most definitely has come across wrong.

I did not mean that anyone is a waste of finger time. Everybody here is equal and is deserving. Sew, same to you. I am not saying what you say is a waste of fingers.

What I mean is.... ya know, I don't think I can say what I mean and it comes across right at this point so let's just leave it at.... I apologize to KC, Sew, Deena, Peacesoul, and anyone else that took my little sentence as wrong.

As SC says, peace and I am going to focus on myself. 🙂

June 14, 2005
2:24 pm
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Thanks mama...you're always very kind and I have no reason to really think you'd be anything to the contrary, but this thing is already fired up and thought it better to clarify.

SC
This lines up with something I've been working in my recovery, although it's been in a different form (relating to my stbx)

Whenever I need to make a point, to show somebody something, how good I am, how well I am doing, how right or smart I am (haha)...when I feel that strong, strong urge...it's usually time to stop and convince MYSELF of all of these things. I'm the one who needs my OWN approval...and THAT I have control over.

Easier said than done. And everytime I am trying to work something through in my recovery, I see it dripping off of the threads of other people!

Time to turn the light back in my direction when that happens...thanks for the friendly reminder...I needed that today, as I'm struggling with weird feelings for the stbx- wanting to prove something to him, but I don't know what (another thread another time)

kc

June 14, 2005
2:32 pm
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Oh my, I'm repeating myself. lol

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