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Use to enjoy this site......
June 13, 2005
10:52 am
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peacesoul
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Deena, I do think taking your own life is the easy way out b/c living is so much harder than dying, but it takes a vast amount of courage to end your life also.
Pain (as we all know) hinders judgment and true emotions.

Most suicides are committed during a time of severe duress. How many of us wanted to "bite the biscuit", only to come through the storm and go "wow, good thing I did not end it all" !

Pain can be the end all or the beginning of a new healing life...it's up to us to chose if we can walk that road til we get to the light or if we want to sit down and give up.

Tough choice either way

Lolli I think being brutally honest has it's place, but at times being honest is the only way to go (depends on one's situation), but I agree, we need to think twice b/c there are many senstive souls on here.

Luv (if he is ok and reading this), is quite uncaring to not post and let us know he is ok.

June 13, 2005
11:14 am
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peacesoul
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I would like to add, when my ex of 11 yrs left me 5 years ago, he left me for someone with HIV. He slept with both of us unprotected, he destroyed our sucessful biz, he emptied my home of furniture etc...you get the gist. Well needness to say, I was a mess after all this happened.
The day he moved his SHIT out, my Mom was with me. I curled up in a ball and cried so hard and said to my Mom "when you leave I am going to kill myself, I cannot take this pain"
Then I went ballistic and threw everything I was able to pick up.

My Mom grabbed me hard and looked so intense into my eyes and said "Now you listen to me, you have two GOD DAMN choices, you can go into that bedroom and curl up and die or you can get yourself together and live. Those are the ONLY two choices here. Your choice if you want to win or lose"

Well that is all I needed to hear, Peace NEVER loses....haha...So I made the choice to live and fight. It's never easy to wake up and feel like shit everyday, but hey, no one said life was a piece of chocolate cake smothered in warm chocolate fudge sauce with two scoops of ice cream :- )

June 13, 2005
11:17 am
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Deena
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peace...
maybe too many sensetive souls then I guess. Id rather people be straight up honest and give it to me for real then pussyfoot around with what they are actually thinking.
I totally agree with you and lolli in your posts. I still think it's selfish. On that note, Im going to get my nails done.

June 13, 2005
11:21 am
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amberly
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I am so sorry about all of the pain that I feel reflected in Luv's thread. I do not feel that this site is not an understanding and caring group of people. I totally agree with SC and anytime someone is terribly depressed they need outside intervention. Sites like these are valuable and insightful but for serious issues one on one face to face contact is so important. I hope that Luvs is fine and just not contacting us for a time
I have rec'd a lot of support and help already and I am still new.

June 13, 2005
11:28 am
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luv2luvher
10-Jun-05

Well, after the anxiety attack and the panic of her phone being disconnected, I tried to contact her. She noticed that I called and she called to find out what I needed. I told her what had happened and of course no comforting words or anything that I wanted to hear or not hear. I just told her I didn't understand why I had the attack, why should I care if I never spoke to her again. I asked her if it bothered her if she never spoke to me again and she said it scared her too. She told me that she didn't want to just put me aside and never talk to me again. I can't be her friend due to our history, but the thought of not being able to talk to her kills me inside. I told her "I loved Her" as we got off the phone and she told me she knows. But for some reason, (sarcasm) I don't feel any better now then when I was having the attack. Oh, well, I must be a pathetic soul, lost in his love for a women. I can't and don't think I want to let go... So I am crazy, shoot me people.

Much Luv, Luv2LuvHer

jamaicanwife
10-Jun-05

I don't think anybosy here wants to call you names or shoot you, nice guy that you are.

There was another man who used to post here who had a similar mindset -"Yes, she treats me like crap, and she doesn't really want me, and my heart is breaking, BUT I LOVE HER, so leave me alone to wallow in my misery."

Hey, they elevated unrequited love to an art form back in the middle ages. I figure heartache must be its own reward, or noone would wallow in it.

noesamor
10-Jun-05

Great point, jamaicanwife--there must be a payoff for hanging on so tight to something so painful. There is a section in the book "Women Who Love Too Much" that explains that such behavior suggests that we are trying to rework old wounds.

luv2luvher
10-Jun-05

so help me make since of this.. Can holding on be a good thing? I mean I believe in her and me, and I believe we belong together.. I also feel she wants to be with me but right now her life won't allow that... Just wondering if I should take some of this as sarcasm to the way I feel or are we being supportive?

Luv2Luvher

jamaicanwife
11-Jun-05

A little bit sarcastic, but I don't mean to b malicious. I just don't know what kind of help to offer you. Your post makes it clear that you are basically committed to this bizarre, destructive relationship, so what can I say to you, but good luck with that?

You seem to be an intelligent adult who is perfectly capable of making your own decisions, and I applaud that. If you decide to do somthing that you know is not going to do you any good, I am certainly not going to offer you any support, but I will respect your right to do so.

June 13, 2005
11:33 am
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lollipop3
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What's the point?

June 13, 2005
11:40 am
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peacesoul
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Deena, you're talking to the "straight up" poster girl here(haha) so I do know where you're coming from.
But when you see someone is not taking the "real" approach and wants to be coddled so he/she can sit in their own sorrow, then we either do not reply or try to be more sensitive.

I know for me, I would have paid BIG BUCKS for people to have "said it like it is" when I was in my "bad place" so this is why I may seem "too "honest times.

June 13, 2005
11:45 am
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Randomwomen2
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hey luv2luvher I am so sorry you feel this way. I realy hope you do not harm yourself. I was in a bad place at the end of april and somehow i got through it i realy hope you get through this you mean so much to us here. I am sorry that people havent always talked to you with the respect that was needed. But we can all take this as a learning experience to be more careful with our posts i know i will please write back to us we truly care and are worried for you i will check in several times today I hope you write back soon

June 13, 2005
11:47 am
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I suppose, since I was suicidal just weeks ago, I found the whole interchange to be alarmingly close to home.

That whole 'selfish' label attatched to the threat of suicide is like a gentle push towards the edge of a cliff..with no soft place to land

June 13, 2005
11:54 am
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Deena
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charlie...what does that mean? It's soo selfish.

Peace...you are my girl. Tell it like it is, right? Im not walking on eggshells because some people may not like what I say in my posts. That's not why I am here. I want people to be honest and give advice. I don't want ot be babied and coddled like some of these people.

June 13, 2005
11:57 am
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Anonymous
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I would have to agree that being upset with people on this site, and then claiming sucide to me is very manipulative almost. I don't think Luv could see that at the time, but basically it is saying, you people did not give me what I needed, so now I am going to kill myself.

Granted I am sure that Luv has many other reasons, but that is a lot of guilt to place on people, who for the most part, truly do try to help.

We are not all perfect, but we try to be caring and supportive.

I hope Luv, that you did not carry through with anything, and I also hope that you seek professional help, as it appears that the services here might not be as beneficial to you.

I hope that Luv continues to come back here and is okay, but I think for that type of serious thinking on wanting to end your life, that actual physical contact with someone would be better.

June 13, 2005
11:59 am
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Randomwomen2
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My husband let me know how he feels about suicied he told me that the people that think about it or do it are just being selfish that they dont care about anyone but themselfs. I disagree. But it was realy hurtful especialy when i was going through my bad time. I feel like this thread is becomeing a place for people to bicker and not a place for luv2luvher. That is just the feeling i got by reading some of the posts maybve we can turn it around. I am just conserned for luv2luvher I realy hope you come back please please dont hurt yourself

June 13, 2005
12:03 pm
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Anonymous
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I think that MANY people would say that suicide is a selfish way to fix problems. The thing is that, people all think differenlty on topics.

I am very against suicide, but I have had friends that have tried to commit it. I don't think less of them for it, because I can understand that some people get in a mindframe of how much the pain hurts, and sometimes, you just don't want to deal with shit anymore.

I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on suicide and agree that I hope Luv is getting the help needed, if not from here, from somewhere.

June 13, 2005
12:18 pm
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lollipop3
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Deena,

Peace is right about the fact that some people don't care for the "real" approach. Some people here are just looking for some compassion and understanding, and like peace said if it is not you're style than you don't have to respond.

The whole "tell it like it is" is approach is fine, but I wouldn't pride myself on the fact that it actually may hurt someone more than they are hurting already.

Now, I'm going to say it like it is......being insensitive under the guise of honesty is not nice nor is it necessary....no matter what anyone says their "reasons" are.

Lolli

Lolli

June 13, 2005
12:38 pm
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exoticflower
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I agree, Lolli, 100% but I think this is the sort of thing that has SC popping alkaseltzer. This thread should not be turned into Denna justifying her hostility and defining what 'keeping it real' is imho. Just as I see it. Deena, I would suggest that maybe you start a thread about it in lib brew if it is something very important to you right now. Just what I think.

Lolli, my aproach to things like these is often to just let a persons difference of opinion go if I have found in past that it is a real 'angry button' for them. Triggers come up a lot for certain people about certain things and it is best often in my experiance to aviod them unless they pertain directly to me, it takes so little to fan a flame when it is a sensitive subject for someone.

I am in agreement with SC that Luv needs to hear that he is cared about and that we all want to see him here, and that it has been made very clear by all of you (I only just got a look at all of this myself). But it is a situation we can't do anything about right now except what we have.

Luv, if you read this, I am so sorry you are hurting. You are not alone, really. I hope we see something from you soon, but if not that is of course your choice...but people are worried about your LIFE here, and if the case is that you have not tried something terrible, PLEASE let us know. People here care about you, we do.

June 13, 2005
12:39 pm
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Deena,

It means "don't kick a man when he's down"

And 'home truths' have been the bane of my life, I have never learned a 'truth' from them -( if 'truth' is reality and not the other persons' forced perception)

When a person's down, they need gentle aids to help them stand again - compassion, warmth...good advice from experience or understanding, not merely an opinion. Opinions can be blinkered, and their bluntness, cold..

June 13, 2005
12:44 pm
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lollipop3
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Exotic,

Thanks for the reality check.

I guess it's in my nature to root for the underdog, and I just feel so bad when people are in pain.....but having said that.....you are soooo right, and I apologize.

This site has been so helpful to me and I just feel bad when I see someone is hurting, and I just want them to get the same experience here.

Sorry SC, I owe you an alkaseltzer.

(((((hugs to everyone))))

Lolli

June 13, 2005
12:45 pm
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kc30
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Ohhh...denial talk! I have something to add...IMHO (as always)I believe the following to be true:

Telling the truth without empathy, humility or compassion to someone who is locked up in denial is counterproductive. People in denial can't see the truth because they aren't ready and strong enough to see the truth. That's why people go into denial mode in the first place...it's like a defense mechanism.

Telling them the truth in a manner that may be hurtful (ie- sarcastic or condescending) doesn't help them break through their denial. It hurts them, convinces them even moreso that the world isn't safe and drives them back deeper into their safe, denial world.

People can only come out of it when they feel safe. They can't feel safe if they feel attacked. Can we help how someone feels? No!! Can we be sensitive to their needs, fears, etc? Yes!! Although because we don't have the benefit of tone, body language, facial expressions etc on this board, it's harder, and it seems like people sometimes take things as a criticism that aren't meant to be that at all...so it's tricky. Maybe taking that into account when reading a post would help...but I digress...

Understanding denial puts us in a better position to help. I don't believe in supporting a person's denial, but I believe in trying to tell them the truth, gently, in a way that shows they are valued and cared for. Then maybe, they'll feel safe enough with me to actually hear what I'm saying, and consider it to be true?

Melodie says that trying to shake someone out of denial is like trying to snatch away their security blanket...it won't work...they'll just hold on tighter.

I've lived in denial, and I came out when I was ready. I was helped out by gentle souls who took me by the hand and guided me slowly. The ones who just "told it like it was" and got pissy and frustrated with me...well, we aren't very good friends anymore.

I'll admit that I often get very frustrated with people who are in denial on this board...but only because I can see it clearly now, and because I want to help them out of it and share what I've learned. We react emotionally, I believe, because we care here...about each other and ourselves. We see someone killing themself, and we want to show them a better way. And they won't listen to us, and it's hard to take.

The one thing though, that really bothers me about this whole thing, are the suicide references. This is an anonymous board...we don't even know who luv is....if he was posting about suicidal thoughts for support, that is one thing. But basically saying "You failed me and didn't give me what I need so I"m going to kill myself" isn't fair. It seems more about punishing the people who didn't measure up. How is a person supposed to be able to help if they don't really know what that person needs?

Ask for help- be direct and specific. This suicide stuff is just not cool. People who post here are trying to help...and I am the first to admit, I am not a cousellor so please don't take what I say to heart, or use us to take the place of professional help.

People are just sharing their experiences, and truly trying to help.

Oh, and one more thing...Peacesoul...amen to you and your mama!! 🙂

Again, MHO- not directed to our at anyone specifically but a general topic of discussion inspired by this thread (my disclaimer!!)

kc

June 13, 2005
12:49 pm
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peacesoul
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If I may, I would like to intervene about what Deena means by "telling it like it is"
Telling someone the truth is NOT "kicking a dog when it's down".
It's being kind. humble and honest enough to help that person get out of their "cloud"

Now, my therapist could sweet talk me with all the soothing words I needed to hear like
"It was not your fault, you ex was a monster. You were the victim. He is a sick man etc"
But she took the approach of "Listen, you knew what he was about, take responsibility for your choice. You're a grown women, now you're suffering and I will help you heal and learn from this HORRIBLE mistake"..etc...

Had my therapist coddled me for months, I would still be whimpering.
Also, it's been 10 months that Luv has not been with his ex, isn't it time he TRY to move on. Isn't time someone tells him like it is? He needs "tough love".
This is not kicking him when he is down.
Luv was looking for unconstructive sympathy and I think KUDOS to those that did not coddle him. That would not be helping him in the least.
Now with that being said, YES I do think tough love can be relayed in a kind sensitive matter, but I for one will not listen to someone bellyache for months about the same things especially when I see them do nothing to help themselves (not specific to Luv's case here, but in general)

June 13, 2005
12:54 pm
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kc30
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Ok...where is my fiery Peacesoul?!

If only I had waited 2 minutes, I could have saved my hands a lot of typing...I think you summed it up better than I 🙂

I agree completely. Cool!
kc

June 13, 2005
12:59 pm
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exoticflower
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I am simply saying that I don't think that was the matter at hand here--there is a thread in LB about brutal honesty, maybe things like this are better discussed there, as that is exactly what that thread was about, and this wasn't.

June 13, 2005
1:20 pm
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sewunique
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When someone THREATENS suicide, you pay attention, their next step could just be the one to end it.

Are they looking for attention, perhaps manipultating? DAMN STRAIGHT THEY ARE. It is their call for help, whether or not they go thru with it, they are at least asking for HELP!

For those who think less of this situation as serious, then find another thread you feel more com fortable addressing, is my opinion.

Never shall I take a threat lightly. Some poeple know those who HAVE committed suicide, without any warning and we wish we had some inkling ahead of time, to help or refer them for professional help. Course, if it is inevitable, then it happens, but I will give my best to give what and where I can.

Now, if Sew sounds strong here, I just would like to add that there is this way to talk and my usual gentler way of putting things. But right now, there seems to be a huge debate and bantering about of how we present ourselves to others here.

There are other sites on the web that would not allow such freedom as there is here, so please let us be compassionate, follow guidelines, or just bow out. There is a time for 'tough love' or 'saying it straight out'. BUT... you better have that person's trust and permission to lay such heavy methods of communicating to them, or they will not be receptive to what help you are attempting to offer them!

I am going back to re read the Site Coordinator's post here, as I totally agreee, and hope I have not overstepped my bounds here with giving my opinion.

SewUnique

And if anyone feels they have something to learn about suicide, the ways to offer someone help, there are some great sites on what, how to and what not to say to them.

Peace,

Sew

June 13, 2005
1:21 pm
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(5) more reasons to keep this site going...........we have alot to learn here!!!!!!

June 13, 2005
1:30 pm
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sewunique
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And by saying (5) more reasons, does not imply any one person, but in general. I have been using that phrase repeatedly with SC's thread about the site, with using the number five, so please do not take it as attacking any person(s).

June 13, 2005
1:32 pm
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peacesoul
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Kc, the fiery Peace is still alive and kicking. I do have moments of clarity ya know..hahaha

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