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truth and nothing but honesty
May 10, 2004
12:30 pm
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eve
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Hi,

one of the situations in my life where I'm usually not honest is when I'm asked what my mom died of. I just feel that 'suicide' is not an answer that fits nicely in most chit-chat and smalltalk situations. I do sometimes answer truthfully when I'm talking whith friends in a more intimate situation. But at the hairdressers? The companies christmas party? Whith a new acquaintance?

And "thats none of your business" or "I'd rather not talk about that" aren't viable answers either, the first is impolite, the second is honest, but usually sparks reactions that I don't really care for.

So I usually settle for pneumonia or breast cancer. Dishonest?

May 10, 2004
2:51 pm
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gingerleigh
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Technically dishonest, but totally understandable. May I ask how this generally comes up in casual conversation? Seems like a strange thing for a hairdresser to ask... "So, would you like frosted tips this month or shall we do the complete color wash? Oh, and before I forget, how did your mom die?"

I'm sorry Eve, that must be a really hard thing to deal with and step around.

May 10, 2004
3:03 pm
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eve
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😀

no, its not normally difficult for me, because its so old. It just sometimes happens that I talk about home, or marriages, or divorce, or about my dad and my step-mom. Or I explain how my father is widowed, divorced and happily married - one after the other, and in that order, too. And sometimes people are compassionate and talk about how difficult it must be to loose ones mother, oh, how old where you then, what did she die of. Its normal conversation, really. Just not an everyday mode of death.

May 10, 2004
6:21 pm
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free
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eve

I hope you're not feeling guilty for not sharing such a personal thing with others.

How about a response such as "the cause of death was not determined-it was a total surprise- she died in her sleep"

It's a vague response- for me, whenever I can find a vague response to an uncomfortable question, I do prefer it over a coverup.

But ya know- if you say breast cancer, etc., obviously it's dishonest, but so understandable that I could never see anybody holding that against you.

free

May 10, 2004
8:39 pm
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Molly
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Get out of it gracefully. I agree with your response. Heck I know my mom committed suicide, with smoking and alcohol, but it went down as pneunmia...... I understand how conversations go , and say what you are comfortable with, you could go arrogant, and say isn't that a really personal question? But I would never go with that response.

May 24, 2004
5:33 am
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LA Rosa
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When it comes to casual conversation with people who are just being polite - most of the time I take the gracious option of getting out of it gracefully. Apart from the all the awkwardness it imposes upon others - I would usually prefer not to go into divulging the circumstances that led to my brother committing suicide..... although it doesn't feel respectful not to either. So I just say that he tragically drowned, and leave it there. It is also the truth.

LA Rosa

May 24, 2004
2:27 pm
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Zinnie
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I agree with all above.

Just... "she passed away, my Father is remarried to a nice woman" should suffice.

Ginger - in answer to what you are saying though... did you ever read about my going to get my nails done? I go once a month because my cuticles get so raggy looking, so I pop for the big $10 manicure. But, I think I know what Eve is saying.

Once, when I was there the manicurist doing my nails, asked "how long have you been married, how many children do you have?" Now, most of you here know that my children are my step-children from my first marriage and that my first husband died. So, unless I really know the person - I just say "I have no children." Then this woman, and you know what? It was not just her, this happens all the time from people I have NO clue who they are... they will say "well, have you thought about adoption? Didn't you think about freezing your eggs and finding a surogate?" This particular woman was from Vietnam. She offered to "bring you back baby girl from Vietnam for $1000 American."

So, Eve - I feel ya Hon. Keep it simple.

Love,

Zinnie

May 24, 2004
2:34 pm
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eve
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🙂

May 25, 2004
1:29 am
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Zinnie (and all)-

On the topic of children... I've only been working my job for four years, but the longer I stay there the more I think about how I'm going to feel working with children when I get older and don't have any. I don't even think I want them, but at this point it's not an option. I HATE that awkward conversation. I dread the day that somebody says to me "...if you had children you would understand." I know that happens to people who work with kids all the time when they encounter dissatisfied parents. Ugh. I'm actually thinking of switching to adult services which I know wouldn't be as rewarding. I'm just getting hypersensitive. I'm just sick of people with kids thinking they are somehow superior. A friend of my sister's actuallly had the nerve to say to her about motherhood "it is the only thing that really gives life meaning." So the rest of our lives are meaningless? Please....

May 25, 2004
6:50 pm
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gingerleigh
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People can be dumb sometimes, for certain. *smile* It always amazes me how such life paths are taken for granted, that we all want to get married and have babies. Hey Zinnier, a meaner Ginger would probably have come back with something like "Oh, and did you know that for $1000 American you can enroll at a community college and go get a real job instead of spouting your crap-ass views on life at me while you're moisturizing my cuticles. Bitch."

I think maybe someone pissed in my wheaties this morning. *mean grin*

May 25, 2004
9:27 pm
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Zinnie
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Actually what scared me more than anything was that how many people out there - the scary kind would say "sure"?

May 27, 2004
9:59 pm
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Molly
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All we know is what we know, and some people.... I believe that I have gotten an edge on acceptance and controll due to my kids, and my effect. Powerless -ness is more like it. I don't think its superior intellect, but when we look at all aspects of life, experience is the greatest teacher, not to invalidate others from their life experiences, or ignorance of mine. Hell I can relate to a person who has owned a cat or dog in the same way, as long as we can relate. Today I am greatful to speak that if we can't relate, that it is ok. I know that they speak from their ignorance, lack of experience, or perhaps mine and its not personal. They are who they are. They know what they know.
Isn't that the key to a relation? Relating ? I know that GL doesn't have kids, but I feel her pain when she is worried about her cats !I know that when I bitch about my kids that she relates on her experience, I know that she can hear me with my guilt on not walking my dog. Its all about relating, your intrepretations, and the other persons. I don't think any one really intentionally gets up to piss in one's Wheaties............ We just recognize that we found piss in our Wheaties, and are in a funk over it, how dare they. But when we realize that some one was just pissing, and our Wheaties got in the way of the stream so to speak, then we get it. It took along time to get here. Read the Four agreements, don't take a damn thing personal.

May 27, 2004
10:32 pm
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Do people really believe that having children makes them less ignorant? That's not what you mean right Molly? Because I've encountered that and the irony in that really blows me away...

June 2, 2004
4:11 am
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lewis
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Do people really have children to fill the hole in their life???

June 2, 2004
12:49 pm
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eve
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good question, lewis. I guess some do - I hope its not the majority

June 2, 2004
1:55 pm
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Unfortunately, from where I work and what I see around me everyday I believe that that is true very often. It's sad, but true. However, this is not to say that some truly loving parents don't come out of a decision that might have been made for less than healthy reasons. It's such a deeply personal choice- but then in creating another life NOTHING should be taken lightly. This is an emotional topic for me, so I hope I'm not out of line commenting on it here.
I just get very upset when I see the world becoming populated with children who aren't getting their needs met. Many parents wrongly assume that it is the job of the school and other institutions to take up the slack for what efforts they don't bother to make themselves. Well, certainly schools can educate a child like a parent might not be able to- but nothing can replace family love. I can't tell you how often I'll have a mother come in to where I work and say to me "Can you read to my child?" Well,yes, but what's wrong with you? It's just not the same if I do it. Naturally, I have a way of saying that that is democratic and not accusatory. But really- if it doesn't occur to these women to do something so simple as that for their child themselves then what else aren't they doing? At least these are the mothers who bring their children in in the first place. Ugh. It's so upsetting.

June 3, 2004
3:29 am
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lewis
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Having a child seems like a huge discision to make to me. Afterall that child will be in your life till you die, hopefully, Never do we grow up and stop being children to our parents. The huge responsibilty is not covered in society.

I think it would be a good thing to introduce subjects on life in schools.

: )

June 3, 2004
2:04 pm
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sixfootblonde
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Regarding children -- it bothers me the way some can have children very easily without giving it prior thought, or taking proper care of the children they do have. While others try for years and could give a child a good home, full of love.....something I wrestle with.

Children touch us in so many ways, perhaps that is why we all feel so differently and definitely about an issue like this.

June 4, 2004
12:47 am
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Everyone here seems to agree on the idea that parenthood is not to be taken lightly.

June 4, 2004
4:56 am
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lewis
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i like the way kids don't judge people : )

June 6, 2004
12:25 am
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Molly
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I can honestly state that I had a child because that is what we were "supposed to do" after we got married. I had a great career, we waited for 5 years before the first, I thought I was going back to work , I had no concept of day care the effect, or the out come. My husband and mother in law talked me out of it, and I became a stay at home mom. I was so clueless as to what to do with a child that when the mother in law called to check up,after we were home for 6 days and asked how is her BM's I said what is a BM ? She said bowel movement, I said she hasn't had one, of course the flip out on the other end of the phone was something new, I was given advice that worked. Karo syrup and water. Like the damn broke. The in thing at the time of her birth was to keep them on milk till they were 6 months old, I had not a clue that I was starving her to death, and that was why I was up every hour to change her diapers. When I got bored about when she was 18 months old I said NOW I want another one, and got her with in 4 days of trying mid pill. She got cereal the first night home, and a pacificer. Rules changed. The oldest got fluride in her water from conception till 5, the yonger one not, the news had changed. the oldest is 26 not a cavity in her mouth,the youngest has had a heap of dental work the last 7 years, of course the oldest will have problems with hardening of the arteries, and more prone to alheizmers, but no cavities.
Rumor has it that fluoride is out there to make us stupid. I love them both,like the breath that I breath. Times have changed.
Mothers now try, to do what I did, with out a thought to the out come. They think they can do it all, and they can't . Just like the 80's when we thought children were resiliant to divorce, hello surprise... they are clue less. They are going through the motions, some what like I did, with out a concept of consequences. I hate the new campaign of day care. Moms in my opinion need to be home with their children. And they need to be open to learn about raising their children, and work from some sort of instinct, rather than what is popular, and get damn educated.
I will never forget a teacher from
Cuba that I had that shared that all children are taken from the family and institutionalized. Day care. Think socialization, public acceptance, new world order............... My girls have their own opinions. I work with a mom my age, she has a son and daughter both completed college, as did mine, we sit back and smile as we know a part of it is that we were home with them.

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