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To Craig Co. You have my Support
July 29, 2008
8:19 am
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_anonymous
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I am sorry about the bad treatment you received on your abandonment thread. It was very insensitive. My advice to you is if someone gives you crap just give it right back.

You sound like a very intelligent person that has a lot of insight into your problem.

You are working through it the best you can.

Unfortunatly it takes time. I went through it. It was devastating. Something I will never forget. The only thing that helped was when I met someone else. Not that the person I met is much better.

Knowing why someone abandons still doesnt help heal the wound they have inflicted.

Let me know how you are doing.

Destinystar

July 30, 2008
10:28 pm
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Hey, Craig, Des...

Just wanted to say the issue warrants a new clean slate/thread, its a good one. Last thread on abandoment I think is one about abandoholism from 2005. You can look it up in "search".

Im one of those who flee/abandoned an x and yet felt more abandoned than he did. I see a negative conotation to abandonment and then even more negative if you consider it premeditated. However I could not feel more guilt for a failed marriage bc it started with obsession, infatuation, didn mature for 14 years and maybe wasnt ever meant to be though I had the controlling hope htat it would.

My story... I was to start something comletely new to me that scared me to death. the night before I couldnt sleep. I went back and forth as my x snored probably under the effect of sleep med bc hed jump everytime I moved out of bed (premonition?). I called my terapist who said she was also a friend. She asked what time it was, maybe 4-5, she told me to try to sleep. My first question point blank to her was what was the earliest time she could be at my home that morning. Wouldnt a crisis therapist, phd, do more? Ask whats was going on? Oh, she did ask if I was hurt. Nice. I hoped shed ask me more stuff, manipulating me hoped maybe?

As neither therapist listened my cry for help, nor x heard me, I impulsively lifted the phone receiver and called an airline. Made reservations to a 2-hr away place the earliest possible in the morning. Bc I was afraid x would come after me wth the blablabla well fix things. I wanted a 2-mo separation. Well, as son as I got to my destination I broke down and couldnt stop. I had to decide where to go. I called a sis who said come home. I said I dont have a home there anymmore. She did what she knew what to do, said come (and later she got people to deal with me which is another story, 8 movings in 2 years, crying for more yrs).

I had kissed my x to go to my new appointment. He had no clue. I just wanted to disappear. Had the keys under the car ready to take off if needed. when he couldnt find me and called my family, he got no news bc I asked that no one tell him until I had safely arrived (the thought crossed my mind about him, imigration and mental health people coming after me). My x was with no news, went to the police, was devastated when he knew I was far away, cried, asked for depression drugs and was told he was plain sad.

He was of some help with some medication and books, I didnt wanna come back, then after a month I did, he didnt. I was sick, penniless and depressed, facing the coldness I saw in my close family (I couldnt see much thru 14 yrs) and their lack of understanding and means to deal with me. I ended up in the hospital with my first of a few suicide attempts. x kept sending me my bills, got them even at the hospital. He told me I was only to come back after 3 conditions were met. Take the meds properly, do therapy and demonstrate some socioeconomic performance. He sent me an anniversary card in 3 months and the divorce papers in the 5 which by the date of processment were right there with the anniversary. I had sent him my wedding band I felt so abandoned. He said he was in denial.

Well, Im trying up to now to get be whole again. About ten years. but Im also getting to know myself and have an ID. Despite x saying a few years ago that he knows he married the right woman (other 3 were previous live ins), I guess what He didnt put together, men should not keep together. I read the article of abandonment from 2005 a while back and believe that the fear of x getting a hold of me plus his pursuing all led me to passion which at times was love but not the enduring kind. I went to his 12 steps meetings so he would go. I didnt know waht to do for us anymmore.

I hope I dont take away from your thread wt this long story, Craig. I jussst feel a need to rehash it till it really becomes of small importance as apparently Nitske (sp?) said in the book When N cried which I found too slow for the moment I was in. I hope I dont get to be old and still telling this story to therapists. they seem to be just skipping it. No, Im not mad at x anymore but I feel nothing for him. Not much better, is it?!

so this was about sharing feelings not recipes to make it all good. I hope theres something here for you, Craig, and anyone who reads and realizes, we are not alone, every story has 2 sides or wahthaveyou.

hugs, Sini

July 31, 2008
2:13 am
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Randomwomen2
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(((((Craig Co)))))

July 31, 2008
7:35 am
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Craigco,

Are you sure you're not Worried Dad in disguise? You sure do write like him... same style, same wording and everything.

or maybe you has a long lost twin!!! 😉

July 31, 2008
5:03 pm
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I have to smile...

August 1, 2008
4:18 am
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Destiny,

I'm ok - thanks for asking.
I've been quite busy working both day & night as of late so I haven't had time to read & respond to your posts.

As I'm sure you know, there will always be someone that feels a need to badger others.
I couldn't be bothered to respond to such insolence. It's just counterproductive anyway.
So, don't worry about me, although I do appreciate your sentiments re- the attempts at pestering & the abandonment issues we've both experienced.

We could never know for sure all that goes on in the mind of our abandoners as I don't think they're even sure themselves much of the time.
One thing I am fairly sure of is that it must be hell in there. I wish her well.

I think that it's natural to question their motives however. Especially if the reasons for their leaving were nor apparent.
I felt a need to understand so that I could "draw a box around it" as they'd say. Maybe discover something not only about her, but myself as well.
The old "learn from our mistakes" thing.

Of course I still feel the hurt from time to time but, overall I'm doing much better than I was & I realize that as time passes I will come to accept it more & more. As far as the "meeting someone else" goes...well, I'm a still a ways off from being ready for that.
Put the ol heart on the chopping block again...hmm...how bout - NOT!

So, how are you?

Crg

August 1, 2008
4:21 am
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Sininho,

Thanks for sharing & I do understand that there are always two sides to relationship problems.
Hope you are doing ok?

August 1, 2008
4:22 am
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((Randomwomen2))

Thank you!

Crg

August 1, 2008
4:27 am
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CraigCo
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Thewall,

Oh really? I write like Worried Dad?
Hmm..never realized that.

I'll take that as a compliment!
(not sure he would though - lol)

Well, I am a dad & I do worry occasionally. Maybe I'm his long lost evil twin?

Crg

August 1, 2008
4:29 am
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Sini,

What were you grinnin about??

August 1, 2008
7:48 am
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thewall
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😉 could be.

August 1, 2008
8:07 pm
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Craig, Wall, I was smiling, yes, grinning, about morphing Craig and Worried Dad. Just didnt match the pictures of them in my mind.

August 2, 2008
1:22 pm
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Craig - Hi. I am having some abandonment issues myself. My husband has been in and out of my home like a damn yo yo. When he was here he said he wanted to be elsewhere. When he was elsewhere he wanted to be with me. He didnt contribute a dime towards household expenses or a minute towards chores. Everytime I confronted him he would grab his back pack and bolt out the door saying f- u I am leaving.

The last time he pulled this crap was on Tues. said he wanted a divorce and he was leaving so I said fine, lets go to the court house and he takes off. I caught up with him and asked him to go somewhere and talk it over. We had icecream and he orders me to go to the court house and get divorce papers and I did. Then tells me he didnt want a divorce. I told him I had to leave town to look for a place cause I wanted to move. He leaves town with me and my son around 5 am the next day. Then I find an apartment he tells me he wants to move to the town as well. Then he starts drinking beer after beer, getting mean, short tempered, angry, cussing at my son. Embarassing me in public. I asked him what his problem is he says nothing. I guess he is pissed cause I didnt involve him in the moving decision. I told him he has left counteless times, I dont trust him or see why any thing I do should be based on him besides its my money. So, we get in the truck to go back to where we came from. He argues with my son, is rude to me. I told him that I was done with him, I couldnt do it anymore, I could not believe he says f- u to my son at the residence outside of a place I rented. I told him his name wasnt on the property and I didnt care if he liked my decisions or not after all he took off last month, to move 600 miles in the same town as his X. At that point he told me on the freeway to let him out of the car I said no. Then he tried to jump out of the car so I turned it around and took him back to the town we just visited. He has 80 ounces of budweiser drank and was itching to buy some more. I begged him not to drink. He said he could do whatever he wanted. I got the divorce papers and asked him to sign and he did. He pushes me out of his way grabs his stuff said he didnt know if he loved me anymore, and never wanted to see me again and took off. Later my son and I saw him coming out of 7-11 with a 40 ounce beer. Then my son and I drove back to our home town alone.

This time I dont feel the urge to call. I literally cant do the revolving door thing or put up with his drunken Bull shit any more. I feel bad that he had to be unreasonable and end it on such a dramatic note. While he was dissing me a guy called offering to help out and he blew up. I told him that he has to understand that since he opted out there will be someone else. He said he didnt care.

He's mad cause I didnt want to spend the entire summer 600 miles away in a national forest surrounded by fires. He also had to be in the area on Monday for a workers comp MD appt. Thats where he got perscriptions for morpeine, oxycontin, duragesic, etc. and then they quit paying.

This man only thinks of himself and it doesnt matter what I do or dont say he is always rude, nasty, unpredicable, etc.

I hope I dont hear from him again. The situation still makes me feel sick.

In your situation, 2 things cause a mysteriouse disappearance, finding another lover or when someone truly doesnt feel a damn thing for you. I cant imagine anything else.

The end of a relationship always feels like abandonment. Thats why it ends cause someone leaves.

Even though I paved the way I still wasnt thrilled to see my husband leave. It was something that had to happen.

My situation was hard cause I had a sick attachment to my husband. I had to let go for my own good. My heart hasnt caught up to my head. I feel abandoned. I feel better that he drew the last blood so I wouldnt be beating myself up for making that final decision.

When ever a relationship ends I dont think it matters how, why, who, or where it all feels bad.

The only thing that worked for me was finding someone else. I know that is lame, but thats how my mind works.

Are you feeling better now, the worse or the same?

August 2, 2008
1:26 pm
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sininho- loved your story. Thats why I couldnt just all out disappear on my husband, cause I feared I would want him back and he would get revenge so I set him up to do it. And he gladly did. Sounds crazy. Now I imagine in a short while he will have misgivings and then I can be the one to tell him no if he asks me back cause I will not forgive him for being the one to leave. Sounds insane? Cause It is. I did get mine to sign off on a divorce. I am sure we are through.

August 2, 2008
6:05 pm
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Hi, Destiny.

I really wish you well in staying as clear about things as you are in the above posts. You seem to have separated out his illness as the main source of the turbulence in your marriage.

You almost abandoned your clarity when you said, "I guess he is pissed cause I didnt involve him in the moving decision." Then you soldiered on and saw that while he is in the condition he is in, he is incapable of being your functional partner in a happy relationship.

He is pissed because he gets pissed about most things. You would almost have to stop breathing in any attempt to stop doing things that appear to make him angry; and then he would just go and get angry at your son, etc. He is angry because he is angry.

And the only one who can cure his anger and the other symptoms of his addictive illness is him.

Your challenge seems to be to let him go and work on his own recovery. Isn't your challenge to see that your glass is half full not half empty. He has left your life with some room for some new exciting adventures. You can choose to see this as abandonment or you can choose to see that you now have the space to create the life of your dreams. You have detached from his alocoholism. He did not abandon you; you removed yourself from his alcoholism. Let it go. Good riddance.

He does not need you to recover his sobriety. In fact the opposite is probably true. The pain for him of realising that you now have new men in your life and that this is due entirely to his addiction may well be just the rock-bottom experience he needs to make that bone deep decision to seriously attempt change.

Meanwhile, you need to get really clear about the qualities you want in the next set of characters that you invite into your life. Choose them as wisely and astutely as you can. There was a good book around about 15 years ago, called "Are You the One for Me?" by a lady called D'Angeles (Elizabeth I think), all about how to carefully choose the right people with whom to share your life. It's a good book if you can find it, but I think others have dealt with the topic as well. It is mainly about bringing your head as well as your heart to the task of selecting a good mate.

Above all give your hard painful work in separating from his addiction a fair chance to work. Do not let him in that door again.

Love and hugs from DownUnder.

August 2, 2008
7:36 pm
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WizardOfAus- Thank you! Your post was excellent. The perfect thing to keep me on the road away from him.

The only thing he is working on is his alcoholism and possibly trying to get back in business with the perscription narcotics.

He doesnt correlate me cultivating other relationships with men (non have been romantic) as his fault and claims to care less.

I realize I must let go of him no matter whoes decision it was. He wanted to move in the direction towards alcohol binges, living in the national forest, hunting, fishing and goldmining all day with me at his feet like a loyal dog. I DONT THINK SO.

I am moving in the direction of going back to my job that pays some seriouse money and working on my ability to get along with others so I can succeed. I have been seeing a psychologist on a regular basis. I also need to pay of my truck so I dont have a payment and taking care of my responsiblities. Using my brain space for rewarding challenging things as opposed to the STBX husband show.

I honestly dont believe he wants to walk in my home any more than I want him there. He is a survivalist that loves living in a tent or trailer, with as little responsiblities as possible as he pours a cold one down his throat and pops a pill every 5 minutes. Walking around with high blood pressure, indigestion, pin point pupils and all the other life threatening things that go along with the life style.

The routine got old. I got exhausted. I have lost all desire to contact him and if he contacts me I dont mind telling him that after all he has done he is not welcome back.

It was sort of as if our feelings were mutual. The thing has circled around the drain for so long.

My expectaions of a man is for them to be reliable, honest and trustworthy. But it seems to be asking too much.

One guy who has begged to date me for a year offered to help me move. Says he will call in the morning and I havent heard from him.

I am not even looking. NOw that I have aquired all this knowledge in regards to character nothing looks good to me anymore.

How are things with you and your wife?

August 2, 2008
10:54 pm
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Hi Destiny.

My wife and I had two long phone calls this week, of about 2 hours each. We have a mediation session next Thursday with our lawyers present.

We are both trying to be loving and gentle with the challenges we are each facing. I feel we are both victims of a sad set of circumstances. However the fulcrum of our problem is our different perceptions of both the problems and the solutions. So I am pretty sure it is all over. I also think we are now in reasonable view of a consent settlement which means that we can both sack our lawyers and get on with our lives.

I don't know if I told you but it appears as if I have cancer. I have to go into hospital at the end of the month to let them have a bit of a poke around my prostate. So I will be very glad if we can remove all the stress as soon as possible.

Beyond that, I have done a deal with my son whereby he will inherit everything in return for him helping me with my living costs. I raised him as a single Dad, so we are a pretty functional team to begin with and I am hoping that we can prosper beyond mere survival.

So the only remaining challenge seems to be my fear of loneliness. I really miss my wife's gentle feminine energy. I am sorry that she could not handle my energy. She says that I was too agile in my thinking, which is probably true. Her last husband was quite steady; had a good job, no real investments apart from his 401k, and generally not interested in change. She was really attracted to me because I was so change oriented. I guess it is another of example of being careful about what you wish for in the next lover. I was too much the other way for her.

For me her daughter's attitude was the killer issue. So maybe I had better be careful how much feminine energy I want in my life. One woman is plenty, thank you very much. lol

Good luck in creating your new life. A good job and getting out of debt are really good steps in the right direction.

August 5, 2008
10:21 pm
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Wizard- I hope you can tie up loose ends. But dont be surprised if she flip flops on you.

As far as the prostate issue the prostate is very well encapsulated so the cancer usually doesnt metastisize.

Please let me know what the Doctor says.

I am back to work as a nurse. A good high paying job & moved to a better area.

My husband is the same. Drinking and being extremly difficult.

August 6, 2008
12:08 am
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Yes Destiny, you called it one.

She rang me that night, just after her daughter got home. She did not want to talk to me any more.

Just now, I received this big package in the mail. It was the tops cut off the flowers I had given her. I guess that means I won't be getting any nookie tonight, eh? (lol)

We meet at mediation tomorrow. I just hope that they have a good burns unit at the local hospital, in case she breathes fire on me. Hell hath no fury like a woman who does not love herself at the moment. Well I tried. You can't win them all.

Thanks for your support on the cancer front. I am working on forgiving all the resentments in my life. I really believe that cancer comes from within; that is why we call it a dis-ease. I need to recover my peace within.

August 8, 2008
7:40 pm
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Wiz- If she didnt want to talk to you then why did she call? Actions speak louder than words.

If she doesnt want to communicate why did she send you some flowers? Actions speak louder than words.

Wiz she still loves you. But has a very dysfunctional way of communicating it.

The cut up flowers was symbolic of the pain you have caused her along with disappointment.

Is the mediator to deal with the legal issues?

I can see a long life ahead for you.

Let me know how your medical condition is.

Cyber support,

Destinystar

August 8, 2008
11:01 pm
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Hi Destiny.

Thanks for your astute observations. You remind me of my Dad. He used to say, "don't worry about the talk, just watch their feet." lol

Well, life has moved on since my last post. We did the divorce settlement two days ago and we achieved a fair outcome, in terms of the system we live in. I brought 90% into the marriage and after 7 years, I got 65% on the way out. So I can live with that and hopefully learn from the experience. Philosophically, I see myself as having just had good winter prune; and now I am ready for a rush of good spring growth as the sunshine returns to my life.

I was almost suicidal the night after the conference. However, friends and my son all rallied around and put me back together, until I could see a small shaft of light to head towards. That night I was really churning with shame, anger, hurt, fear, you name it. So I just kept repeating this mantra to myself, "Dare to dream." When everything looks really black I try to dare to want something that seems impossible; just admit that you still want it. That led to a thought that in an infinite Universe of time and space, anything is possible. The negativity slowly dissolved.

Next day, my ex rang, all full of love and light. She let me have my meltdown in front of her. I admire her for staying on the line, because it must have been a testing experience for her. Somehow I went past my anger and got right in touch with my pain. I was sobbing and complaining and really questioning her commitment to the spiritual ideals of the marriage vows and ideals, when all I could see from her was a strategic grab for the resources. I felt like a little boy who had been too trusting and now I had lost all my marbles.

Eventually, I blew myself out and she shared her pain. I made a really conscious decision to shut up; I had had my turn and it was only fair that she be heard in silence, so I had to be really disciplined to not be defensive. I just listened and even managed to mirror some of her stuff. I would say, "So you are saying you felt xxx..." That seemed to help a lot, I guess because it made the communication two way.

In the end she invited me over to her place to work on the cattle together today; that was something we always enjoyed doing together.

Then it was time to consult my brains trust, who had given their all in the previous 24 hours to see that I did not self destruct.

I have been working on this codependent habit I have displayed, where I do really generous stuff for her but then feel resentful later on when I do not get rewarded for it. So it struck me that visiting her today could well be the start of a new cycle of that pattern. She was hoping for 50% which would have given her the farm and the cattle. Her 35%, essentially means she has a bucket of cash but is going to be homeless when I get the farm back. Plus her pet cattle are all going to be homeless as well. Obviously one solution is to leave her cattle on my farm. And good old codependent me felt really good about that idea. I felt loving and generous. I also felt validated; "See I told you that you could not live without me." Boy of boy, did that put an end to all thoughts of suicide; what a buzz it is for the ego to be proved right.

My brains trust saw it differently. My lawyer said that I had survived one pruning but that he doubted I could handle another one. So he was working hard to put a high fence around what was mine. He added that if I started doing loving deals which undermined his legal agreements, he would disown me.

My son said I could do what I liked if I could tell him three tangible benefits that I was assured of getting out of any deal, like agreeing that she could leave her cows on her property. He would not allow me to include her love and gratitude, because experience had already shown that she was unreliable in that area. He quoted Dr Phil; "the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour."

He also endorsed what the lawyer said about how I could be taking a huge risk to be manipulated because I was so emotionally unstable and downright needy.

So I decided to pass on today's visit and wait until I was more stable before I make any decisions.

I am happy with that decision, because I hope that that decision to think before I commit may have broken my romantic pattern of committing on a wave of emotion and then my rational side gets angry later on, because I feel ripped off.

There is no change in the cancer front. However, I did ask my wife to share a little forgiveness ritual with me, so that I could let go of any resentment that might be contributing to the problem.

So that is it for the time being. My optimism is growing by the hour. I feel as if the pain of the ordeal is now behind me and it is time for me to design a joyful future.

Thanks for all your support, Destiny. You are a very wise woman.

August 9, 2008
9:00 pm
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(Destiny)

Hi ya! Are you around? How are ya doin?

Crg

August 10, 2008
10:24 pm
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Craig- I am doing good. Back to work. Does wonders for the mind. Moved to a better area near the ocean. How have you been? Please give me an update.

August 10, 2008
10:36 pm
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Wiz- I am glad that the divorce has been settled. Of course it was all about what she could get from you. Now that she has a piece of you she is going to see if she can get more.

All you can do is control what is yours and let go and place in her hands what is hers.

Having any more to do with her at this point will delay the process of you gowing through the grieving process and finally reaching the stage of acceptance.

The fact that she still calls and you ponder what she has and what she needs still tells me that she is a controlling factor in your life.

I can see why you like the part about her needing you. It is normal to think that way. But the fact you have something she needs puts you in great danger of coming to close to the flame of her narcissistic candle and getting burned once again.

Us codependents think give give give and our partners think take take take. Tie a ribbon around your finger and every time you think to give say NO and dont do it.

I have a hell of a time with that as well. Always wanting to be on the giving end, never on the recieving end then getting pissed about it.

Right now I am working and giving myself a sense of purpose and financial control over my life.

Keeps me busy.

Please let me know how your health is. I have a feeling you will be OK.

August 10, 2008
11:07 pm
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Destiny,

Why did you move? I thought you were going to stay where your kids could continue school in a familiar place.

Are you still in counseling? Is your husband still living with you and still drinking?

How's your new job going? Is it the same place where you were working before or somewhere different? Are you getting along with everyone there okay?

Mary

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