Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Tibet under the Dalai Lamas: Tales of Slavery, Torture and Serfdom
January 26, 2009
2:06 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Msg, so what would you say to Bevdee, even if it means disagreeing with her? Or you'd say nothing yea?

January 26, 2009
2:51 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
January 26, 2009
3:12 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Thats not the best video on the angry Whopper, sheesh, I gotta beat you at your own game now. That one just had 2000 hits and was 2.5 starred so its a poor video. Here's one with 20,000 hits and 5-starred by people:

The BK Angry Whopper

When trying to excel at ignoring the torture Tibetan people faced under the hand of the Dalai Lamas, the least you should be able to do is get a decent 5-star video link about the angry Whopper. Its an ad though. I dont know of a user-made 5-star video on that topic.

January 26, 2009
3:22 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I wasn't going for popularity - mainstream - that's a common mistake, IMO. I look for content- that which makes me think.

Why do you feel you need to " sheesh, I gotta beat you at your own game now."? Hmm. You aren't angry are you, Whopper Jr.?

January 26, 2009
4:15 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Well good content usually gets atleast 4 stars, that was my point. Anything under 3 stars usually sucks.

January 27, 2009
1:20 pm
Avatar
MsGuided
Golden Horseshoe.ca
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 104
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

guest.
I already said it to bevdee in my post about the Burger King that went out of business in my neighbourhood.

I'm sure she got the subliminal message.

But I don't thrive on conflict or like to create it. I don't have to say anything or join in a "fight"...why?

I have enough to deal with at home! HELLO...I'm not here to create another realm of social woe for myself. I don't seek out peoples threads for the sake of disagreeing.

I try to communicate with like minded people, not try to force things down their throats by right fighting, and picking at their weakness's.

Bevdees efforts in this thread are kindof a metaphoric mirror to what you do. She's giving what you give in her own way.

There are lessons here.

I still read the Dalai Lama Thread BTW....I take what is usefull ( which is re-iterated Buddhist belief incorporated into todays events anyway)and reject the man and his agenda as a whole. I don't think Tibet has it good under the Dalai Lama or China's rule.

January 27, 2009
2:40 pm
Avatar
tree_hugs_4life
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If Tibet is different today then why would the Dalai Lama insights not be useful? Perhaps the people took them to heart and initiated change because of them.

of course the history is important. But I don't see how that invalidates the insights guest.

pece

January 27, 2009
5:04 pm
Avatar
MsGuided
Golden Horseshoe.ca
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 104
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Talk about smokin' mirrors.

I really don't give a damn about the Dalai Lama, Buddhism as a whole ( some of it is useful but again it misses the mark to true enlightenment) Christianity, or any other modern religion. Politics and religion go hand in hand and spread their dogma, manipulations and profess great comforts, to become a cohesive force to enslave us all.

My concern is what's going on in my country, my continent. We have a Christian Prime Minister UGH! A real Boys club kinda guy. A divisive puppet manipulator who just loves the power he has now. Pretty soon we'll all be like Tibetan serfs, or like the Chinese if we don't wake up and start doing something to reverse whats already happened. Uneducated, incapable of critical thought, unable to truly support ourselves because we are all hired hands, all reliant upon a currency that only increases debt, proponents of fear and division.

The core issues that perpetuate the worlds problems exist within so many institutions but mainly religion, Governments and banks are the causes of human suffering. They control us all.

I must follow my own path, one that is gaining recognition amongst others but I have only seen it in a few people here, and it just doesn't align philosophically with any of this.

One of the most profound things i have seen of late was the Zeitgeist Movie. The message there is what resonates deep within me. Nobody but a few wanted to continue that discussion but I need to carry that with me every day.

Enough with the culture of distraction fear and violence, the culture of division, and politco/religious manipulators.

I have to keep striving my way out of it.

January 27, 2009
11:23 pm
Avatar
CraigCo
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 39
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hear-hear!

(MsG)

January 28, 2009
11:28 am
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

MsG, thats you, but in my case, if I see anyone promoting someone as peaceful and wise when nothing is further from the truth, I'm not afraid of being in conflict and saying the truth. Somoene has to do it.

Alright then.. so what else we got.

Tree, if Hitler did all those crimes, would you still take any 'wise' quotes from him seriously? Or would his crimes not matter to you?

January 28, 2009
6:11 pm
Avatar
tree_hugs_4life
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I would probably not even be interested in what Hitler had to say.

a more current German leader, that's a different story.

Aren't the Dalai Lama insights posted at this site current?

peace

January 28, 2009
7:37 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

MsGuided

On the 27-Jan-09 you wrote:

"One of the most profound things i have seen of late was the Zeitgeist Movie. The message there is what resonates deep within me. Nobody but a few wanted to continue that discussion but I need to carry that with me every day."

I downloaded a copy of the movie Zeitgeist and have watched it several times. It is very informative and frightening at the same time.

What is even more frightening is that I do nothing about it other than pass copies around. The daily problems of life seem to take precedence over doing anything else. Thus the movie fades in my memory. I suspect that everyone else is the same and apathy reigns supreme.

And:

"Enough with the culture of distraction fear and violence, the culture of division, and politco/religious manipulators."

Yes I agree thoroughly with you on this. However, I think that the Dalai Lama might be an exception to this in that because of the very tenets of his beliefs he is a peace loving, inter-being nurturing, non-divisive person by nature. Every aspect of his religion which I have studied, seems to profess this. His monks even try to save the earth worms from being harmed when foundations are being dug for new buildings.

January 29, 2009
10:03 am
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

I try not stepping on Earth worms myself when its raining but isnt treating humans not more important than earthworms? Or do Earthworms deserve more respect than us?

When serfs stood up in Tibet - Anna Louise Strong (1959)

Chapter VII. VILLAGE FAST OF LHASA

The husband then took up his special story. "Once Khemey's daughter came out to stay in the manor. She had a fine saddle and she required good care, so I took her saddle up to the second floor. (The upper class live on the second floor, the first floor being for storage rooms and servants' rooms.) Two or three months later the steward called me and said that the saddle had disappeared and also some woolen pieces and he accused that I was a thief. For a whole day he flogged me with a heavy whip, demanding that I confess. Many times such accusations were falsely made against serfs and they were flogged to confessing. But I would not confess, for I thought the steward stole the saddle himself.

And all this happened under the watchful eyes of the Dalai Lamas.

January 29, 2009
10:13 am
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Tree, sure, the insights are nice and many times make sense and say a lot of good stuff that is true - no doubt. But I doubt the 14th Dalai Lama wrote those insights himself. Bah. for starters, the guy's english is weak. The evidence is clear in all of his videos e.g. link. Now we know someone else proof read and corrected his english. The next thing is: did he really write those himself? See him in his videos. Do his responses to people's questions in the video match the wisdom of these insights? Does the intellect level match? No. The insights are made to sell and look holy. We dont know what their source or inspiration is. How was this Dalai Lama selected again? Randomly, not by merit. The people went to some 2 year old boy and said "he's the new Lama!". So, was he qualified to be a wise man? No. What would he know about peace then? Not more than me or you, trust me.

But again, ok - the insights are nice. Maybe he did do them himself, but people should know what happened in Tibet under the Dalai Lamas. If a certain person says some nice things and then its known that he was a serial killer, its important for people to know that. You agree, right?

January 29, 2009
10:47 am
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

And all this happened under the watchful eyes of the Dalai Lamas.

These are your words, right? That's some whopper, there, G_. Because this phrase was nowhere in the article you just posted. Don't make me start googling info on the Nutty Bar.

January 29, 2009
5:30 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

BevDee.

It would take an inordinate amount of time and effort to address each and every 'gaping hole' in these Chinese propaganda based posts. The misunderstanding of the procedures for Dalai Lama selection is just one example of many; there are too many other glaring anomalies to address in the time and space available.

Tibetan Buddhists understand that up until approximately 4 years of age, many children remember important parts of past lives. When a child recounts to his parents that he was the Dalai Lama in a previous birth, then the parents of this child seek out the Tibetan authorities with that information.

No doubt many parents, in seeking fame for themselves and their child, make up such stories in order to advance themselves in the Tibetan communities. Many come forward, I believe, with such false claims. However, the Lamas responsible for appointing the next Dalai Lama then set into motion the very discerning procedures to verify the identity of the child as being the previous Dalai Lama in its past life. This entails the child having very precise knowledge of a very personal nature about the recently deceased Dalai Lama. Apparently the present Dalai Lama was very persistent as a child that he was the previous Dalai Lama. He as a little child passed the most stringent testing without a hitch.

This hardly sounds like a "random selection process" to me in any sense.

Of course there are so many ignorance based flaws in the Chinese propaganda that few people other than those with an axe to grind take it seriously.

January 29, 2009
6:33 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

According to Wiki "The Dalai Lama is not chosen he is found."

Wiki goes on:

"He is not chosen, he is found. The current Dalai Lama is a reincarnation of the previous Dalai Lama. He was born two years after his last incarnation ended. Senior Tibetan monks recieve information during meditation which helps them track down the new Dalai Lama. They have a secret set of criteria which they use to determine whether the child they have tracked down is the Dalai Lama. Although, Familiarity with the possessions of the previous Dalai Lama is considered the main sign of the reincarnation. The search for the reincarnation typically requires a few years."

Again, this hardly sounds like a "random selection process" to me in any sense.

January 29, 2009
6:56 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Bevdee, who else was governing Tibet in the days when serfdom and torture was going on in Tibet? Obama? No, it was the Dalai Lamas.

Tez wrote:

>> Apparently the present Dalai Lama was very persistent as a child that he was the previous Dalai Lama. He as a little child passed the most stringent testing without a hitch.

There were no "stringent" tests performed on any Dalai Lama. As for someone claiming very persistently that they're the new Dalai Lama: If I persistently claimed I was a frog in my previous life, does that make it true?

>> They have a secret set of criteria which they use to determine whether the child they have tracked down is the Dalai Lama. Although, Familiarity with the possessions of the previous Dalai Lama is considered the main sign of the reincarnation. The search for the reincarnation typically requires a few years."

Ha! "secret criteria", lol. I'm sure they'll keep it a secret. There's good reasons.

Here's how it probably happens: someone gets tired of not finding a Dalai Lama. There's an urgency to find the next Lama and then they keep eyes out on 2 year old little boys everywhere. Then somoene starts testing the boys to see who wants to be the Dalai Lama the most. In your own words, the current Dalai was "very persistent as a child that he was the previous Dalai Lama". Then they choose that boy because he's the LEAST likely to later deny that he has anything to do with the Dalai Lama and call it all a practical joke or cancel the whole thing for whatever reason.

A 2 year old little boy who was "very persistent as a child that he was the previous Dalai Lama" gets to be the new Dalai Lama. lol. What a joke.

In 2009, its absolutely amazing to see that there are supposedly educated civilized people living in urban cities who inspite of the total lack of any scientific evidence to support it, still believe that "reincarnation" really does happen; that 2 year old boys who are persistent about the claim of being the new Dalai Lama, must be so because they said so. And that there are "secret criteria" to determine who really is the new Dalai Lama.

Then ofcourse there's people who believe that Muhammed flew to Heaven on a winged horse. I put both of them in the same category.

I am the 144th Flying Lollipop, because as a 2 year old, I felt very strongly that I was the real 144th Flying Lollipop. Believe me, they did secret tests to confirm it so we know that its true.

January 29, 2009
7:15 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

More LOL about the Dalai Lamas. From Wikipedia:

However, if there are several possibilities of the reincarnation, in the past regents and eminent officials and monks at the Jokhang in Lhasa, and the Minister to Tibet would decide on the individual by placing the boys names inside an urn and drawing one lot in public if it was too difficult to judge the reincarnation initially.[21]

And Tez just wrote:

Again, this hardly sounds like a "random selection process" to me in any sense.

Yea.. putting the boys name in a frigging URN and drawings lots is SO not a random process. LOL.

This is perhaps the easiest and funniest argument I've ever rebutted.

January 29, 2009
8:01 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

"Yea.. putting the boys name in a frigging URN and drawings lots is SO not a random process. LOL.

This is perhaps the easiest and funniest argument I've ever rebutted."

Like all your arguments you never seem to check your source out very thoroughly - if at all. Look closely and you will find that the source for this nonsense is standard Chinese propaganda. Perhaps this is how the Chinese select their puppet Lamas. Sorry - you got it wrong yet again.

January 29, 2009
8:21 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Printing a very, very small portion of the text from your source and presenting a very biassed impression to other readers is downright dishonest. Here is the complete text from which you very selectively took your cut and paste. Anyone with half an intellect can see that you are deceiving by omission. BevDee has caught you out at this devious practice several times in the past. This is perhaps why no one wants to debate with you.

"The search for the 14th Dalai Lama took the High Lamas to Taktser in Amdo
Palden Lhamo, the female guardian spirit of the sacred lake, Lhamo La-tso, who promised Gendun Drup the 1st Dalai Lama in one of his visions that "she would protect the reincarnation lineage of the Dalai Lamas"In the Himalayan tradition, phowa (Tibetan) is the discipline that transfers the mindstream to the intended body. Upon the death of the Dalai Lama and consultation with the Nechung Oracle, a search for the Lama's reincarnation, or yangsi (yang srid), is conducted. Traditionally it has been the responsibility of the High Lamas of the Gelugpa Tradition and the Tibetan government to find his reincarnation. The process can take around two or three years to identify the Dalai Lama, and for the 14th Tenzin Gyatso it was four years before he was found. The search for the Dalai Lama has usually been limited historically to Tibet, although the third tulku was born in Mongolia. Tenzin Gyatso, though, has stated that there is a chance that he will not be reborn although if he is reborn it will not be in a country run by the People's Republic of China.[14]

The High Lamas used several ways in which they can increase the chances of finding the reincarnation. High Lamas often visit the holy lake, called Lhamo La-tso, in central Tibet and watch for a sign from the lake itself. This may be either a vision or some indication of the direction in which to search and this was how Tenzin Gyatso was found. It is said that Palden Lhamo, the female guardian spirit of the sacred lake, Lhamo La-tso, promised Gendun Drup, the 1st Dalai Lama in one of his visions "that she would protect the reincarnation lineage of the Dalai Lamas." Ever since the time of Gendun Gyatso, the 2nd Dalai Lama, who formalised the system, the Regents and other monks have gone to the lake to seek guidance on choosing the next reincarnation through visions while meditating there.[15]

The particular form of Palden Lhamo at Lhamo La-tso is Gyelmo Maksorma, "The Victorious One who Turns Back Enemies". The lake is sometimes referred to as "Pelden Lhamo Kalideva", which indicates that Palden Lhamo is an emanation of the goddess Kali, the shakti of the Hindu god Siva.[16]

"Lhamo Latso ... [is] a brilliant azure jewel set in a ring of grey mountains. The elevation and the surrounding peaks combine to give it a highly changeable climate, and the continuous passage of cloud and wind creates a constantly moving pattern on the surface of the waters. On that surface visions appear to those who seek them in the right frame of mind."[17]
It was here that in 1935, the Regent, Reting Rinpoche, received a clear vision of three Tibetan letters and of a monastery with a jade-green and gold roof, and a house with turquoise roof tiles, which led to the discovery of Tenzin Gyatso, the present 14th Dalai Lama.[18][19][20]

High Lamas may also have a vision in a dream or if the Dalai Lama was cremated, they will often monitor the direction of the smoke as an indication of the direction of the rebirth.[14]

Once the High Lamas have found the home and the boy they believe to be the reincarnation, the boy undergoes a series of tests to affirm the rebirth. They present a number of artifacts belonging to the previous Dalai Lama and if the boy chooses the items which belonged to the previous Dalai Lama, this is seen as a sign, in conjunction with all of the other indications, that the boy is the reincarnation. If there is only one boy found, the High Lamas will invite Living Buddhas of the three great monasteries together with secular clergy and monk officials, to confirm their findings and will then report to the Central Government through the Minister of Tibet. Later a group consisting of the three major servants of Dalai Lama, eminent officials and troops will collect the boy and his family and travel to Lhasa, where the boy would be taken, usually to Drepung Monastery to study the Buddhist sutra in preparation for assuming the role of spiritual leader of Tibet.[14]

However, if there are several possibilities of the reincarnation, in the past regents and eminent officials and monks at the Jokhang in Lhasa, and the Minister to Tibet would decide on the individual by placing the boys names inside an urn and drawing one lot in public if it was too difficult to judge the reincarnation initially.[21]"

January 29, 2009
9:06 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Lets stay on track. We're talking about the RAMDOM process by which the Dalai Lama can be chosen (in the event there's difficulty in determining his identity using other means).

Chinese propaganda, you say? Ofcourse. Who else could it be? The Lama/Urn story is valid. Ita called the GOLDEN URN and there's a whole article on the subject. Please, do go check it out. The 10th, 11th and 12th Dalai Lamas were chosen randomly using this Golden Urn process. Tell ya what, I'd use that Urn for something else if I was standing next to it. The article on the 10th Lama says:

After Lungtok Gyatso died in 1815, eight years had passed before the new Dalai Lama was chosen. The political events in this period are murky, but finally Palden Tenpai Nyima intervened and used the Golden Urn (from which names of candidates were picked) for the first time as part of the tests for the choice of the new Dalai Lama.

For additional evidence, Time.com says:

Traditional yak-butter lamps glowed as three ivory markers were placed inside a golden urn. Each marker was inscribed with the name of a Tibetan boy identified, during a six-year search, as a possible incarnation of the 10th Panchen Lama, who died in 1989. The urn was turned several times, and then a senior monk withdrew a marker bearing the name of Gyaincain Norbu, 6, who was quickly ushered into the room in golden robes and a yellow silk hat.

This is what they do. Put the names of litle 2 and 6 year old boys in an Urn and choose a name randomly. This is a process for the Panchen Lama but the process is the same for the Dalai Lama too. Thats how these people do it. The story is true.

Now Tez, do you have any doubts about whether this Golden Urn method exists? This is the question we'll be trying to answer.

I dont know about you but I would have learnt a little bit about the Lamas and how they were selected to be the Dalai Lamas before believing that they were worthy of my respect. In my case, my sixth sense is usually always correct. I didnt know about this Golden Urn story until today, but thanks to you - I know it now. Bevdee knows it too nowbut if I ask her what she thinks of this Golden Urn thing, she'll copy paste something about the Whopper so I wont ask her.

January 29, 2009
9:13 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests
January 29, 2009
9:16 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

oops typo: RANDOM*

January 29, 2009
10:21 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
100sp_Permalink sp_Print

"Bevdee, who else was governing Tibet in the days when serfdom and torture was going on in Tibet? Obama? No, it was the Dalai Lamas."

Yes. Was it the Dalai Lama of the Dalai's Lama Insights thread? The 14th? It's Dalai Lama apostrophe ess.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 247
Currently Online:
29
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110935
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38542
Posts: 714222
Newest Members:
jessicawales, documentsonline, SafeWork, thomasalina, genericsmartdrugs, 才艺
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer