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Tibet under the Dalai Lamas: Tales of Slavery, Torture and Serfdom
January 19, 2009
11:45 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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I think it would be wise guest to provide historical references and accounts other than those of Michael Parenti. He's a leftover hippie who engaged in too much artificial "mind expansion."

peace

January 20, 2009
6:46 pm
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What do you mean by: artificial "mind expansion"?

He uses third party references, for one. Second, these same torture stories have been noted by other western names as well.

January 21, 2009
10:55 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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What other western names guest?

Artificial mind expansion is the use of illicit drugs.

peace

January 22, 2009
1:09 am
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You're personally attacking Parenti and saying he's a hippie who uses illegal drugs? It doesnt help you if you're wanting to look like a serious critic.

Before I give you some names (there are many), give me some valid reasons why you think Parenti is not a valid critic.

January 22, 2009
1:40 am
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tree_hugs_4life
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No guest. First you give me some names.

BTW, I could give a hoot what I look like. Looks are but an illusion.

peace

January 22, 2009
8:03 am
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Tree

Well, you cant comment on why Parenti should be objected to as a critic, so thats that. Here are some names:

-Spencer Chapman
-Captain W.F.T. O'Connor
-Dr. A. L. Waddell
-Anna Louise Strong
-Tom Grunfeld
-Stuart and Roma Gelder

------

Here's what all these people noted separately about Tibet:

Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsering Wangdui, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: "When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion."

Some Western visitors to Old Tibet remarked on the number of amputees to be seen. Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then "left to God" in the freezing night to die. "The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking," concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.

Some monasteries had their own private prisons, reports Anna Louise Strong. In 1959, she visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the Tibetan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, and breaking off hands.

Theocratic despotism had been the rule for generations. An English visitor to Tibet in 1895, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the Tibetan people were under the "intolerable tyranny of monks" and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Da Lai La Ma's rule as "an engine of oppression" and "a barrier to all human improvement."

At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O'Connor, observed that "the great landowners and the priests . . . exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal," while the people are "oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft the world has ever seen." Tibetan rulers, like those of Europe during the Middle Ages, "forged innumerable weapons of servitude, invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition" among the common people.

In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, "The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them, nor do laymen take part in or even attend the monastery services. The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth."

----

So... what do you think now? Notice I have not gone to the "Serfdom in Tibet" article on Wikipedia yet, but if the above arent enough for you, you'll have to explain why before I get more.

And you also havent explained why Parenti is not good enough as well. Calling him a hippie who does illegal drugs obviously doesnt do anything.

January 22, 2009
11:41 am
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bevdee
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guest_guest,

I was going to ask the same question Tree did, because, well, you know, back to Parenti. I was wondering if you referred to anyone besides Parenti in your "research" on this topic.

These are names listed in an article, which came up in a Google search when I copy/pasted this phrase "Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s"

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

This must be where you got the exerpt you copy/pasted, and quoted verbtim, but did not attribute the source to. That kind of weakens your credibility, IMO.

January 22, 2009
1:33 pm
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Bevdee (and tree)

That article is what I have linked on the first post, so you didnt have search Google to find it. Is that the first time you're seeing that link? I have linked it often on every 'newsflash' I used to post before.

So are you alleging that Parenti made up these sources? I have posted to a link to Anna Louise Strong's whole book on Tibet before. Here it is again:

When Serfs Stood up in Tibet (book) - Anna Louise Strong, 1959

If you're looking for the specific reference about Anna where she observed the torture going on in Tibet under the rule of the Dalai Lamas, then it is this book written by her:

Tibetan Interviews

So there you go. Now if Tree is going to repeat her claim that Anna Louise Strong is also a hippie that does illegal drugs then I wont be bothered to find more sources because I do not have to respond to anything like that. One could make the same unsupported allegation about me and you or anyone else as well and it would be nothing but an ad hominem personal attack that would decrease the credibility of the one who makes such attacks.

To make an unsupported allegation that Parenti has simply lied and invented these references himself is also ofcourse something that doesnt deserve a response.

January 22, 2009
1:37 pm
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bevdee
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Parenti Parenti Parenti

Marsha Marsha Marsha

Here is a recipe for weeny beenys-

1 (16 ounce) package hot dogs , cut into 1/4-inch slices
1 (28 ounce) can baked beans with pork
2/3 cup ketchup
2 tablespoons cider vinegar

1/4 cup Worcestershire sauce
1 1/2 teaspoons garlic powder (not salt)

In a large skillet, combine the hot dogs, baked beans, ketchup, cider vinegar, Worcestershire sauce, garlic powder and parsley. Mix to blend, and bring to a boil. Turn heat to low, cover, and simmer for 25 to 30 minutes, stirring occasionally.

January 22, 2009
1:45 pm
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bevdee
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Source- from the kitchen of my Nana.

January 22, 2009
2:34 pm
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Mmm, looks tasty but I cant handle complex recipes; only the simple stuff.

January 22, 2009
2:38 pm
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bevdee
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Drive through Burger King - 99 cent Whopper -

Add a piece of cheese when you get home. Otherwise they will charge you another quarter. Sam's choice potato chips - they are half the price of brand chips, almost as tasty, probably just as greasy.

January 22, 2009
2:47 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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ROFL at bevdee!

January 22, 2009
4:17 pm
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bevdee
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Mail order bride. The cost is up front, but it should pay off in indentured servitude. She will have to stay married to you for 7 years to keep US citizenship.

January 22, 2009
6:19 pm
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So what connection does a 99 cent Whopper have with the Dalai Lamas? Do they like Whoppers? Do they?

January 22, 2009
8:40 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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She's doing to YOu what YOU do to her guest. And everybody else. You don't see that?

C'mon.

peace

January 22, 2009
9:01 pm
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bevdee
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Actually, Guest,

I wondered if you had read anything other than Parenti Parenti Parenti. All your sources lead back to him. Maybe reading other works would be good for ... you know.... balance?

January 23, 2009
12:25 am
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I'm not responding to Bevdee or Tree anymore since you guys dont have any serious inquiries. I've given you other non-Parenti names and you had nothing to say on them. If your motivations arent genuine, well, the I give up on you guys.

So thats it. Its cool. Damn I'm so tired today. I'm super tired. Sleep is gonna be yummy.

January 23, 2009
12:43 am
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And Bevdee, I gave out the link to Tibetan Interviews.

January 23, 2009
3:19 am
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tree_hugs_4life
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oh good grief......

January 23, 2009
7:51 am
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Tibet under the Dalai Lamas

One 24-year old runaway welcomed the Chinese intervention as a “liberation.” He testified that under serfdom he was subjected to incessant toil, hunger, and cold. After his third failed escape, he was merciless beaten by the landlord's men until blood poured from his nose and mouth. They then poured alcohol and caustic soda on his wounds to increase the pain, he claimed. (Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth, by Michael Parenti)

January 23, 2009
7:53 am
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bevdee
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I'm not responding to Bevdee or Tree anymore since you guys dont have any serious inquiries.

My question was serious. Have youread anything other than Parenti? This must mean no, I have not read anything other than Parenti on the internet. Books aren't free.

January 23, 2009
8:07 am
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bevdee
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http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/c.....153539.htm

The worldwide whopper
(That's Shanghai)
Updated: 2007-10-05 11:50

Burger King, now with eight locations in Shanghai, offers guests a delicious DIY project: the custom-made Whopper. Here, you can choose to "have it your way" with any number of flame-broiled patties, vegetable toppings and your choice of cheeses and condiments.

But while the classic Whopper can be tailored to your tastes, Burger King operations around the world go even further to accommodate burger lovers. In particular, the Whopper has a number of regional variants which take into account local culinary traditions and preferences. So while visiting far-off lands, why not get a little culture with your fast-food meal? We are especially intrigued by:

The California Fresh Whopper: This burger is made with a sour cream-onion dressing and cucumbers instead of pickles and mayo. Available in Sweden.

The Dark Whopper: A burger that’s not afraid to show its masculine side, this one features pepperjack cheese, black-pepper ketchup and a secret recipe ‘grill sauce’. Available in the UK and Ireland.

The Texas Double Whopper: As it turns out, there are actually three things that come from Texas; this burger is topped with jalapeño peppers and bacon. The ketchup is replaced with mustard. Available in the US and Canada.

The Rodeo Whopper: A cowboy classic which replaces the raw onion and ketchup with onion rings and barbecue sauce. Available in Argentina and Israel.

January 23, 2009
8:10 am
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Its ok - people can still see the first post in this thread.

Yes, I've read the Serfdom article on Wikipedia

January 23, 2009
9:48 am
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MsGuided
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Melvyn Goldstein is an Anthropologist, who speaks fluent tibetan(?) and has worked directly in Tibet before and after the Chinese occupation.

He is one of Parenti's main sources of info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M....._Goldstein

This is his site dedicated to tibetan studies:

The Centre For Research in Tibet

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibe.....dstein.htm

Here is the direct link to the social structure of tibet, specifically Tibetan feudalism and serfdom articles and research.

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibe.....social.htm

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