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Thout Shalt Not Kill
November 9, 2004
2:28 pm
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site coordinator
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I'd like to just post 2 links.

I'm interested if there is any validity or thought from these articles. Is any of it valid? Was any of it televised or published in a form of traditional US mass media?

Artile about Oil in the World

Article about Bush Family-Oil Connections

November 9, 2004
3:15 pm
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Anonymous
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These are credible articles and the facts are referenced in Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 911". Moore also discusses his movie in an interview with Entertainment Weekly magazine, and in that interview, he notes that it was Texas journalists who first broke the news about Bush's ties to the Bin Laden family.

Ren'ai

November 9, 2004
4:36 pm
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I am glad I am not the President. I don't know that I could come close to doing his job.

November 10, 2004
7:48 am
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Cici
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How can we, in good conscience, point the finger at the oil-rich fat cats, when so many Americans refuse to behave in a manner that conserves oil?

When so many Americans drive their gas-guzzling SUVs, and insist on buying new cars every year, but do not buy electric cars, or car pool, or use public transportation?

The government is supplying the greedy, gaping maw of American Consumerism, the very same attitude that so many impoverished people around the world detest in us!

We are wasteful, unecessarily extravagent, and we try to force our way of life on every other nation in the world. Until we start altering the basic american attitude, the politicians will continue to wallow in their extreme greed. The nation voted George W. Bush into office. Barf o rama.

November 10, 2004
11:58 am
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Good point, Cici!

I remember back in the very early 90's when I was working on my first degree, a sociology professor asked the class how many of us considered ourselves to be "poor". Out of a class of about 40 students only 4 or 5 didn't raise their hands. Then he asked how many of the class members owned a VCR. Guess what? Well, I know I don't have to tell you...

At any rate, we do seem to have an interesting idea of poverty in this country. I have seen people who are truly living in poverty. And yet, why is it that we can't seem to take care of our children and elderly in this country?

Ren'ai

November 10, 2004
8:43 pm
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Cici- so maybe you don't have morning sickness afterall. Maybe it's just the current events making you puke. 😉

-ella

btw- How ARE you feeling?

November 11, 2004
8:57 pm
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gingerleigh
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Sorry if I missed it, but WD, can you please post a link to that article, or let me know where I can find it? I asked on the other thread, but I don't think you saw my request.

November 12, 2004
12:39 am
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Ginger,
I posted a link in the thread called "Sex Talk-Sex Ed"

November 15, 2004
11:03 am
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Cici
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Ah, I'm ok. I went to St. George Island for the weekend with the family and spent the whole time in the beach house sleeping or puking. Luckily we were right on the beach so I had a nice view while I hugged the toilet (har har har).

I made it to the beach once, for about 10 minutes, then I puked again....

I can't wait to be 14 weeks. Please make the nausea go away!

November 15, 2004
2:52 pm
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eve
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I think Ginger was looking for the article in lancet. I found those:

http://www.rense.com/general58.....lancet.htm

and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Oct28.html

The 100 000 figure is an estimate, and includes not only people that died because they were wounded by the fighting, but also the increased risk to die of malnutrition, unavailability of (clean)water, lack of medical supplies, and so on, as in most wars. Although it seems - from afar - that this war failed to produce any kind of order and/or security for the people it was said to "protect" from their dictator, and that propably is making it very hard for the people there to see any sense or advantage in it.

November 15, 2004
3:01 pm
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eve
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http://www.iraqbodycount.net/press/

they comment on the difference between the confirmed civilian casualties as counted on iraqbodycount and the estimate of 100000 in the Lancet article.

November 15, 2004
9:04 pm
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brendalee
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Cici - have you tried sucking ice for nausea? (sometimes that works.) As far as the nature of the post.....I have pondered long and hard about this and have come to the conclusion that it might have to do with the amazing fact that the US dollar/currency is NOT BACKED by anything. Nope. Nixon changed that in the 70's if you remember. Bottom line - it's not backed by the gold standard. Not backed by anthing tangible. Deficit - schmeficit....just print more! Have you noticed how much the face of currency keeps changing recently? Kind a scary! The current paper bills and coins are just a few steps away from looking like monopoly money....has anyone else noticed that? So - with that in mind - what backs up the American Dollar is the psychology of "might" (Think about it) Why do you think that England didn't "buy" into the "Euro" dollar and kept their own currency seperate? Hmmmm. The really, REALLY big picture is - that only a handful of individuals run the whole world........the stuff that we get handed to us by way of "news" is just barely the tip of the iceberg... We really have no idea of the real goings-ons and what "enemy" is someone else's "sleep partner"....in my opinion. Brenda

November 16, 2004
9:35 pm
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Just got this in a forward, kind of backtracking, but still relevant.

***************************************

Written by a woman in New York. Think it echoes what most of us in New York think and feel about the state of our country. After the letter was published, the woman started receiving death threats.

A Letter To The Red States:
Sorry, I try not to deluge people with my ramblings. But I had to
write this and, having written it, had to send it. Even though I don't know
anyone I can send it to (without alienating my Republican in-laws, who
are the only "middle country" people I know.)

I am writing this letter to the people in the red states in the middle
of the country -- the people who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this letter because I don't think we know each other.

So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John
Kerry. I used to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. I used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived there,
I would vote for Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions.

Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think
you know me already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist because I dislike George W. Bush. You think that I am immoral and anti-family, because I support women's reproductive freedom and gay rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even evil, because I do not abide by your religious beliefs.

Maybe you are content to think that, to write me off as a "liberal" --
the dreaded "L" word -- and rejoice that your candidate has triumphed over evil, immoral, anti-American, anti-family people like me. But maybe
you are still curious. So here goes: this is who I am.

I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September 11th. I watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went inside so that I couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend who still has nightmares about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He will never be the same.

How many people like him do you know? People that can't sit in a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up?

I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center,
which the government told us is a "target" of terrorism. Later, we found out they were relaying very old information, but it was already too late. They had given me bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was crowded with bomb-sniffing dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear, soldiers. Now, every time I enter or exit my office, all of my possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have any weapons.

How often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside your office?

I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two children. My husband does odd jobs for her now, like building bookshelves. Things her husband should do. He uses her husband's tools, and the two little girls tell him, "Those are our daddy's tools."

How many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How often do you fill in for their dead loved ones?

I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did
my parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I
worked my way through graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50 hour week, every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely leave before 9 pm. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At some point in the future, we will have to pay much more -- once this country faces its deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security.

In fact, the areas of the country that supported Kerry -- New York, California, Illinois, Massachusetts -- they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax base of this country.

How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute to
this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you pay for?

I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for
living in Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let me
tell you how I see the world:

I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other nations.

I see that gay people exist. Therefore, I think they should be allowed to exist, and be treated the same as other people.

I see ways in which women are not allowed to control their own bodies. Therefore, I think we should give women more control over their bodies.

I see that people have awful diseases. Therefore, I think we should enable scientists to try to cure them.

I see that we have a Constitution. Therefore, I think it should be upheld.

I see that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an imminent danger to me.

It seems so pragmatic to me. How do you see the world?

Do you really think voting against gay marriage will keep people from being gay?

Would you really prefer that people continue to die from Parkinson's disease?

Do you really not care about the Constitutional rights of political detainees?

Would you really have supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have wanted to spend more of our money on health care, job training, terrorism preparedness?

I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I
love my home more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York City. I first went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class, and my mom and dad took me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I love taking the subway to Yankee Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my political opponents as much I do.

I am not safe. I never feel safe. My in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and that town has received more federal funding, per capita, for terrorism preparedness than New York City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work in a skyscraper across the street from a "target." I have emergency supplies and a spare pair of sneakers in my desk, in case something happens while I'm at work. Do you?

How many times a month do you worry that your subway is going to blow up?

When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the window to make sure everything is okay?

When you hear an airplane, do you flinch?

Do you dread beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't know a single New Yorker who doesn't spend the month of September on tip-toes, superstitiously praying for rain so we don't have to relive
that beautiful, blue-skied day.

I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends and further provoked our enemies. I feel unprotected.

Most of all I feel alienated from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand what you are thinking.

You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason,
against the wishes of the entire world.

You voted for a man whose lack of foresight and inability to plan has led to massive insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing into the hands of terrorists.

You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape into the hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq.

You voted for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want to love; doesn't want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want to let women rule their destinies.

I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not enough that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the guys.

Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us in order to convince us to go to war? (Ten years ago you were incensed when our President lied about his sex life; you thought it was an impeachable offense.)

Why did you elect a leader who thinks that strength cannot include diplomacy or international cooperation?

Why did you elect a man who did nothing except run away and hide on September 11?

Most of all, I am terrified...
I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not survive this.
I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will never have children, that I will never grow old and watch the sunset in a backyard of my own.
I am afraid that my career -- which should end with a triumphant and good-natured roast at a retirement party in 2035 --
will be cut short by an attack on me and my colleagues, as we sit sending
emails and making phone calls one ordinary afternoon.
Is your life at stake?
Are you terrified?
I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done.
And if anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you.
I wanted you to know that.

November 17, 2004
8:12 pm
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WOW mzrella,

Your post gave me huge chills....right done to the bone. Thanks for sharing and for giving ALL of US a true, articulate perspective.

Brenda

November 17, 2004
11:10 pm
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just to clarify, that was a forward I recieved ...written by someone else. However, if anyone has read my earlier posts around Nov2 they mirror each other... most new yorkers seem to have similar sentiments

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