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This thread is Attn: WD
July 27, 2004
9:00 pm
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Juanita
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I'm losing my patience I fear. Maybe it's b/c of the full moon coming.

My last post to you under "For WD Only" had no flirtations in it, expressed how I FELT about flirtations, and gave a public apology to those who were so offended. Yet, SC tells me to move it.

So, I've moved it to express "What happened?" over there? I must be the latest/greatest bad girl. Funny, not a picture I'd put myself into...

You know Milo must have been hanging around & reading for a WHILE to say all those remarks about Z. I bet he's still here.

Z made a comment which is right on. Since leaving, or being more quiet, no one's really commented on where's Z? You think people care & then you are easily replaced.

We try to affect and help the people here, but realization is - doesn't matter really who responds to certain threads, just so long as there is a response.

If Z's not missed, I KNOW I'll not be.

I'm thinking my time is just about up here. At least I KNOW I made one good friend, and those people I communicated with, I care about.

Thanks for your input WD. I will look to see if you responded to my last post on the other thread. Not sure if I'll be posting in the future. Maybe responding to something you say, but I don't think general posting.

I wish you well - which is what the original message on the other thread was.

Hell, if I wasn't married - I think I'd be flirting with you more. You're a great kind of guy and have alot of interesting qualities & facets. Personally, you're someone who would be well worth the time to go get coffee with to get to know better. (and I don't say that about many people)

Be well!

šŸ˜‰ Your Fan,

Juanita

July 27, 2004
10:34 pm
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Hi Juanita

Been around a little while- flareups like this occur periodically. They blow over if allowed to. I for one do not see you as the latest, greatest bad girl at all. Frustrated, but hardly a bad girl. Frustrated is most certainly understandable.

People come here and people go- they are missed. I noticed Z not posting much. She's either upset about things here or things are busy for her or she's taking a break from here for a bit. Sometimes it's a good idea to do that. It's really easy to get super involved here and emotionally captured. Been there, done this. Probably will again at some point.

People would notice you not posting Juanita.

There isn't much one can do if somebody doesn't post. You're noticed when you do. People wonder and continue on if you don't.

It's clear Milo has really upset you. He obviously has some pretty big issues. They are his issues, Juanita, try not to let them become yours. Everybody saw it. Everybody knows. What else is there to say? He's not the kind of guy who's open to seeing things any way but his own. Trying to get him to would be banging your head against a wall.

Let it go. He has no right to have this much influence on you and your emotions. So don't let him have that.

Take care, sweet dreams.

free

July 27, 2004
10:43 pm
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Juanita
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"quieetus" huh? (gets me soo mad & frustrated).

People can talk about rape, DV, drugs, etc - but flirt or talk about sex in a "normal" (right word?) capacity.... people get offended... and it's not like that was my whole message! Didn't matter what I was told, how I felt, what requests were made .... it's that there were flirtatious comments & honest conversation about a topic called sex.
Taboo even here. Nuts. (no pun intended, but better than a swear!)

This site is supposed to be about love & support. Now I send you a supportive, loving/caring, (hug) & I'm a terrible person. Great!

Maybe who ever complained is envious they didn't get to flirt with you first.

Better stay away from me WD... I'm bad news apparently.

I am so upset! Some people get away with being extremely *rude* for so long & not have a comeupance, but flirt & oh boy...

July 28, 2004
11:24 am
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sixfootblonde
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I've been here about a year and a half, on and off. I come and then I stay away for a while and then I check in again.

I too have seen this happen. It seems like a pattern that you can follow if you've watched it a few times. The whole codependency thing, along with whatever baggage each of us bring here, affects the way the flareup goes and how it lasts. The important thing to remember is that this place is here and if you can take good away from it, great. And if you can't, leave it.

As for Zinnie's absence, I miss her postings. But my reasoning is, if she comes back that's great. If she feels the usefulness of this place for her is no longer, that's her call and she is valid in making it. And if she's not here, even if I post to her, she won't know it. So I wait til I see her post again, if she comes back, and I will welcome her with open arms. But that's her call. And with all she deals with on an everyday basis, the recovering codependent in me would do well to remember that everything is not about me, or my universe. Her world is seperate and I have been keeping her in my prayers that her absence has nothing to do with her illness or her children.

Juanita, I would miss you, too, where you to leave. But each of us does at some time. Some return and some do not. It's ok. It's a sign of growth, or of stubborness, or of who knows what. It's a fluid changing world, this little ecosystem that is this site. But we can't take things so seriously, personally, from a group of anonymous strangers. It's something I learned the hard way, about a year ago.

With respect and love to all,
sfb

July 28, 2004
11:46 am
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Juanita -

I do hope you and WD feel welcome to continue your discussion here. I moved the WD Only thread here as well.

I would like to see these boards used more, and for diverse topics like yours. The other boards are maintained with a focus on new visitors, providing support, especially for folks who are hurting very badly and need a safe & supportive place to read and explore the site. Sexual issues can be a very hot button for those who have recently been abused or raped.

Since the liberation brew boards are a very good place for a sexual discussion, I am glad you have created a thread here (it is the intent of these boards for deeper, more involved, and social topics).

But I hope you know, that hugs and some flirtations have always been welcome on all about counseling. You have seen and participated in these kinds of warm exchanges with many in the past here. It has been found important though to keep it at that level for the benefits of these boards. Peace.

July 28, 2004
9:47 pm
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WD and Juanita,

I had read your thread on the other board and watched it move over here. I understand SC's desire to move the discussion, but I still wanted to comment.

WD, you had some wonderful inciteful information re: the couples process (time alone, time with others, etc). And Juanita, I too was inspired by your conversation. I am going through my own sexual awakening - (repressed due to religion, and put downs from a bipolar ex). This gives me hope to know that there another world out there after divorce.

Please don't stop posting, let the discussion continue.
Love, Ladyace

July 28, 2004
9:50 pm
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Well I just think this is a really good compromise. Talk away over here šŸ™‚

By the way, I am the one who is "woo-ing" wd and gonna sweep him off his feet and run away with him. lol

Something tells me, he ain't so easy to catch!

free

July 28, 2004
10:29 pm
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Juanita
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sigh...

WD... you are being quiet again. Deeply immersed in your thoughts. I know it takes a lot out of you to post chapters in your Digest. Many peoples hearts are with you. Sending you a pillow for your head & a magic wish for a peaceful nights sleep... Wish I could take your pain away.

Free, Twinks, SFB. I am surprised you found me here. Thank you for your words of encouragement.

I geniunely don't understand how if WD & I have/had a flirtatious exchange it would offend anyone. There is another thread where women are openly making reference to sex toys. Never bothered me. My point is, my comments never hurt anyone. Yet, I feel as though someone who was hurtful gets support to share their problems with us so we may help. This flirtatious thread is moved. Dildo thread stays. I'm not complaining about that thread, if I don't like it, I don't read it - it's not hurting anyone. I was hurt that people COMPLAINED about this thread. Feel black-balled. I've never intentionally hurt anyone & this hurt me.

You say you think I've changed over the past months. I don't see it. At least not what I was hoping for. What have you noticed? I'd love to know...

Have I changed? Yes, probably, but not for the better in my opinion. I will never forget what I've been told, and live in, not so much fear, but worry, it will all happen again.

I was, and still consider myself to be, in danger or vunerable to having an affair. To regain that sense of passion & excitement & of being wanted. Yes, sex is good between my spouse & I, don't get me wrong ... but after being together for close to 20 yrs it has changed from exciting to comfortable. Comfortable is not bad. It's just after whats been proposed to me, my "eyes" have been opened & it's hard & somewhat painful to shut them again. This has something to do with not feeling like a treasure anymore. My self-esteem is damaged & I'm not sure how to fix myself. Somehow thinking the attentions of another attractive man would soothe my battered soul. I know I am wrong, but still working thru this.

Counsellor tells me to "manipulate" my spouse - kill him with kindness - to get him to do what I want. We've never worked that way. He says what he needs, I say what I need, bingo-bango done, needs met. This last time I was ignored & not taken seriously. Counsellor says when hubby looks at me & tells me he has no time/nothing to say, instead of saying "fine, do what you gotta do" (letting him know I'm hurting) I'm supposed to be the bigger person & go over to him when I'm hurting the worst I've ever hurt & re-assure him that I love him & that its ok & I understand. Make him feel better about himself so he hopefully will come around to provide the affection I've TOLD him I need & want.

How have I changed? I'm not crying daily anymore... the pain has subsided... I expect less... I feel scarred deep down inside. S is gone so temptation has subsided some.

Counsellor says If I feel hurt - just change my perspective. Afterall, it is ONLY my take on things that is hurting me. Hey, great, it's all my fault I guess, at least in a round about man's world kind of way.

Yay, I'm cured. Keys to Life: Ignore Pain/Deny It/Just change your point of view, & Place Man Upon Pedestal & Love Him Unconditionally & Hopefully he'll catch a clue & return said affections (even though English doesn't work).

I'm thinking I'm not crazy about my counsellor, but can live with my situation as is. Stop thinking about the past & move on. Just stop thinking.

After all, its in the way I look at things. Mind over matter. If I don't mind, it won't matter.

I'm exhausted. Heading for bed. Good nite all.

July 28, 2004
10:34 pm
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Juanita
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Free -

you & landace posted at the same time I did.

Hate to inform you... WD is mine ;-}

I have him under my spell of magical backrubs & forehead massages. The man deserves some pampering & I beat everyone to it...

I'm great at footrubs too.

The bottle of wine is helping also.

July 29, 2004
10:02 am
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Hey Everybody, glad to see you here.

Juanita, I knew people would find you here, and actually, you will find more people who desire getting involved into open discussion over here. These boards are known for debate, more diverse opinions & ideas, etc.

I haven't seen a thread about dildo's, and the reason being is that I don't watch these boards that closely. I don't read every thread - I don't think anyone does because there just isn't enough time in the day. I do however skim through a special page that is just for myself (black & white text with no formatting), where I scan for problems, people 'asking' for me, people having concerns about guidelines, etc. If I don't see something, it's just because it slipped by me. I was drawn to your thread only because I received a few emails specifically about your thread. If I don't get a specific concern in email, I rarely post. I do however, try to follow up with people once I do post - ie: like I'm following up with you here. It'll seem like I'm picking on someone when I'm only following up to be sure people's needs and wants are met with the best satisfaction I can compromise to.

But despite all of that, I'm glad you're posting here.

Peace.

July 29, 2004
5:21 pm
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Hi, just stopping by. I have been reading/posting here for a few years now and I have gotten to the point, like a lot of oldies, where I write only occassionally... This site is good. For changes. The thing that's cool is that the changes you really stick with are the ones that you don't notice happening to you. Like, I first came here about 5 years ago when I was still in college and I was utterly tormented. It took a few years of posting and listening and exchanging and fighting and flaming on here but I am different today.

Anyways, I was only with my exhusband for like 5 years total. So I guess in most respects I can't say I relate to having been married a while and losing the spark. I ended up cheating on my ex for a variety of reasons, but I guess in the end it was about not having my needs fulfilled and not being fair to both of us and getting out of the relationship.

I mean, I totally respect staying together for kids or whatever. My parents did. It certainly warped my ideas of how relationships should work - my parents taught me how to be a codependent enabler, and all the men I've dated in my adult life have been disturbingly similar to my Dad in that they are all alcoholics/workoholics.

I remember talking to my exhusband about this. He admitted to mimicing his father's emotional absenteeism. He said, "that's all I know about being married - I just act like my Dad."

I think that maybe you're just not personally jiving with your therapist. It's common, just keep fishing around until you find someone you can talk to and relate to. I mean, I was weaned at the breast on the "women's school of manipulation of men". (ha ha ha)...that was the tactic my mother always said I should apply. She said that men are like dogs and you have to train them properly in order to make it so they keep you happy. Twisted, I know...but she came from a different country, a different time - she's a lot more ruthless than most women nowadays. Well, she's a b*tch, really. Anyways....

In the end, I dunno...I feel like infidelity really just makes things complicated. I fell in love with the man I cheated on my exhusband with and we're still together now. But the past year and a half has been...difficult. And to think I could have smooshed all that into just a few months rather than 18 months.

So, no moral judgement or anything, just a bit of advice from a chronic cheater. I've pretty much cheated on every man I've ever been with and all it really does is give you heartburn and stress.

July 29, 2004
8:01 pm
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Hey Juanita,

Of course you know my opinion of your counselor. What got me was when I told my husband about what he had said, the first words out of HIS mouth were "she needs to change therapists and now." For him to come out with something like that on such a snap decision? I'll be honest. I have learned that when he spouts out an opinion it is usually dead on.

Now, another thing about my husband and this is where he and I differ greatly. I see things in black and white, with little between. My husband see's life as one giant gray happening. Talk about two worlds colliding.

But... I will tell you this much, Cici hit something home big time for me. I think you know my "family background" but if not... believe it or not, considering I'm a strictly monogomous person, I come from a family who is the furthest from that as possible. They are "serial marryer's" - yet, for all of their marriages, and countless affairs and all of their searchings, I'm not sure any of them are happy.

I don't know what the answer is, honey, if I did I would be rich. I know being with someone for a long time, well, it's a long time. I have been with my husband for 13 1/2 years. Sure, things have gone from wild and crazy passionate love making to comfort, and in my case because of my health and the issue with having cancer of the female organs there has been alot of time of comfort only and actually no sex involved - on my part, but I can still please my husband. Trying to say this without getting too overly graphic here...

For me, personally, I have found that although there are times where I miss the wild, all out crazy love making that comes with the newness of the relationship - guess what? I CAN be the one that can spice it up! Sending a flirty e-mail to my hubby on his private e-mail account on my lunch hour to get him started... coming home and telling him we are having dinner in bed, with me feeding him... things like that can put the spice back into the sex life, and yet, with the spice comes the knowledge that this is MY life partner, the man that I stood in front of 200 people and married. The man that has walked the floor when I'm in the hospital, and told me I was beautiful when I was bald.

I know sometimes we think that a new person would be just the person to spice up our love life, and who knows maybe that is the answer for some... for me it's not, but again, I like monogomamy. It's also the fact that I have seen my parents over the last 40 years change partners the way I change socks, and it has not lent a pretty picture.

Z.

July 29, 2004
10:43 pm
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Well, as a matter of fact I am done with the counsellor as of today. Believe it or not - he declared me rational and no longer depressed. Good thing, I was getting ready to dump him. What I never told you Z, was what he told me the first time... just tell me your basic problem, don't want to get into all the gories (frankly I don't care) and I will teach you the proper coping techniques you need to apply to the situations. He re-iterated this statement a couple times about not wanting or caring to dig into anything deep. I sit there thinking - thank God I don't need him to dig deep! Can't imagine how someone else could survive that!

At any rate, I don't think I will ever cheat, I just believe I am more vunerable now... especially if we should relapse into a situation like a year ago. I don't think I could survive another bout of "I don't have time for you, get a BF" (more or less). Next time, I think I would be more likely to "investigate the possibilities" ... history repeats itself if we are not careful, so I am being careful. Why would I want to repeat this crushing to my self-worth? Believe me. I no longer consider myself a "treasure". In fact I get kind of a sacrastic sneer across my face now at that terminology. That will never change now. I am only flesh, blood, tissue & bone - and I will never forget this again. Treasures can be de-valued, forgotten, tarnished, sold, and trashed. A human being has self-worth and demands some respect.

I refuse to be emotionally crushed again.

Never, ever, ever, ever!!!!

If this means somewhat guarding myself - you betcha I'm gonna do it.

Just never thought I'd have to do it at home. That saddens me.

And sex? Yes, I do long for the passion of youth, but that's not going to repeat itself except in my fantasies. Ha! I never had a big "O" until my 20's! Why would I want to go back to 18??

July 29, 2004
11:09 pm
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No offense... but what the heck kind of counselor was this guy? Something is just not sounding "right" about him.

Hum, have to ponder this.

Z.

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