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This is a sad day!
May 3, 2005
11:52 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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I've been reading some of the threads here regarding talk about leaving this site. I think that would truly be a mistake.

All of us, TOGETHER, have made so many friends on here, we have helped each other through some of the darkest moments. I couldn't imagine leaving this site and missing out on all the helpful advice I have received over these past several months. You all have become like family to me.

I can understand your reasons for being upset - but I don't think the intent by the SC was to deny the mere mention of a God on this site or even to suggest that we can't pray for each other. My take on this was simply to be aware of how people of other religions (aside from Christianity)might feel if they encounter nothing but quotes from the Bible, etc. on this site. I might feel out of place here too if the site started to have mostly, for instance, Muslim views or something along those lines. We just have to practice moderation.

I hope I'm not offending anyone here, because I too use religion to make me feel better and i have learned a lot about christianity on this site and I thank each and every one of you for all your prayers. Let's just take a step back and sleep on the decision about leaving this site.

I hope to see everyone back here.

May 4, 2005
12:57 am
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mamacinnamon
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Hey Hurts....

Nice post honey! 🙂

I agree in not making hasty decisions, but if everything else can be spoken of then why limit the talk of God. When I first came I was asked to speak the Bible upstairs and I did. Got ambushed too. Live and Learn.

I do wish there was some way to make a compromise coz dissention and division are such nasty words. But, to many times just those two words will tear apart an entire church, family, website.

I agree. What a sad day! 🙁

May 4, 2005
1:07 am
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bonita1
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What's going on? I missed somethin'?

Geez, I leave for a few hours and the site falls apart? Hey, come on' girlfriends! Let's stay together......

May 4, 2005
1:54 am
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Anonymous
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We can get through this...

We have a bond here.. Trust in that..
SC is a very nice and patient soul...Do not lose what we all have here. Communication, sharing, support, caring, love, giving, and receiving...

Peace, out..

Sunny

May 4, 2005
2:05 am
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lostinkfo
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All....I haven't been on this site very long but do check in everyday...Even though I don't go to church I still have religion in my heart...I have enjoyed all of your responses to my threads and really hate the idea that some of you who have helped so many, will leave us...All I can say is Please Don't...Look at all the wonderful help that you have all given to so many...Look at Jigs...My Goodness what an amazing experience for you all and for all watching from the outside looking in...What you have done is really make a difference in a lot of peoples lives...Don't Stop Now...We need your guidance and knowledge....Lostinkfo

May 4, 2005
3:35 am
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sewunique
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Still reading

May 4, 2005
11:33 am
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Rasputin
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Sweet HSB,

Thank you so much for this lovely post!

I believe in LOVE!!!!

Whenever I give advice, I comes from the bottom of my heart. I only respond whenever something is relevant to me, or situation I've lived or been through. Otherwise, I do not respond.

Although, I am a strong believing Christian, I have never preached to any one, simply cause I am aware of the fact that this website is secular.

I believe in LOVE! I believe LOVE bonds all people from all over the world!!!

So whether we are Christians, Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, Oriental Philosophies....whatever, I give answers out of love, and I believe that only LOVE is the real BOND betweeen people of all races and creads.

(((LOVE & HUGS TO ALL)))

May 4, 2005
12:00 pm
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peacesoul
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I beleive in ANYTHING that helps the soul, whether it be talk of the bible, sex, bondage or whatever else makes someone smile.

The SC is wrong, wrong, wrong !

I will not stop coming here cause I will not allow the communists to control what I think and feel.

I am not a huge believe in the bible, but I think if it helps sooth those that are hurt, then hell, why not !!!!

May 4, 2005
2:23 pm
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kathygy
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This guideline is not communism just as the U.S. government is not communism just because it is crucial to separate church and state. The recovery program and 12-step meetings do not include the use of the bible and I know of no one who objects to that. If you started quoting the bible at a 12-step meeting you would be stopped. The bible doesn't belong there and I don't believe it belongs here.

May 4, 2005
2:25 pm
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artist 2
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so, then you disagree with banning ALL posts of ALL books, or is it just the Bible you want banned?

May 4, 2005
4:01 pm
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chickyfighter
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I am also Christian and b/c he has been there for me to see me through my darkest moments, I talk about him. He is what makes me strong. I also know that God would not like us to separate and act out of anything but love. I will continue to log on but if I say something that offends anyone I already apologize. Anything I say is w/the best of intentions and b4 I forget, I am so thankful for all the people who have ministered to me, whatever religion they are. I hope no one leaves but if you do, I will keep praying for all of you.

May 4, 2005
9:22 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I notice that we dont have an outpouring of anger and hurt feelings from the Buddhists and Pagans here.

This site has a mental health orientation that is summarized by the word "Counseling."

Counseling is about humanistic values, science, and social work. In that context, it is alright to respect and honor a person's spiritual path, but religious doctrine really is irrelevant to the question of mental health.

I have some strong spiritual values which shape me, give me motive to do the work I'm doing. But Mmy logic and reasoning has to stand on its own.

My emphasis on this site is sharing and support for victims of abuse and their loved ones. Now I will occasionally tell someone that they are a "child of God" who doesn't desrve poor treatment, and I do not think that violates the guidelines. But I am really saying that to express my heart and to try to reach another person's heart.

I do not need to resort to religious rhetoric to help "the whole person." An atheistic psychiatrist is perfectly capable of being helpful to a victim of domestic violence who also happens to be experiencing a crisis of faith. It is about supporting a person's dignity,integrity, and autonomy. That does not require scripture from any particular religion's Bible.

And that was largely the approach used by Jesus in his ministry. He used common sense and a faith in the innate dignity of human beings--he was not a great quoter of scripture and he was not particularly doctrinaire or dogmatic in his approach--quite the opposite. If Jesus could make it through the entire New Testament and do all the things he did without reeling off reams of scripture, I think we can support a person in crisis without preaching or quoting large tracts from the Bible. And if emulating the behavior of Jesus is a good thing, perhaps we ought to try it.

The SC is not banning free speech or censoring or engaging in religious persecution of any kind.

As best I can tell, people are getting upset at the SC for saying some things that the SC DID NOT SAY! Words are being put in the SC's mouth and then people are getting angry and taking issue with words that were not said and ideas that were not expressed.

That is madness.

CODA_Mom, if you read this please take me seriously: Your professionalism and your faith and your ministry are not being disrespected, devalued or disempowered here. If you were to continue writing the same way you have in each and every every post of yours that I have read, you would still be following the guideline regarding religion.

This is a place where you can still help people, people who need you. You don't "owe" it to them, but you sure could continue to do some good here.

And I have unfinished buisness with you, because I am still chewing on a question you asked me, and I still have some questions for you.

May 4, 2005
10:06 pm
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artist 2
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I will have to say worried dad that, for some people, mental and emotional health is all about belief in God.

What did the SC say in the first place?

May 4, 2005
10:21 pm
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Randomwomen2
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thank you i was one of the ones and i am so thankful that i am here i would write more but my boys are grumps got to go

May 4, 2005
10:23 pm
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Anonymous
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WD,

Nice thought out post. Thank you.

Best,

Sunny

May 4, 2005
11:32 pm
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addicts wife
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I have no anger , no contempt, nor bitterness towards any religion, or people who have chosen not to be religous for whatever reasons. I have been to a baptist church to see what it was like, my family grew up catholic, Ive been to as many places of worship as i could possibly enter spoen to buddhists, muslums,jewish,hindu, and even practiced Wicca for many years.
All in all, what i learned was that we are all human, we have all been through A LOT in our lives, and people from all backgrounds (I have found) are trying to live, find inner peace, learn, grow, love, and respect as well as co-exist with others from all over every spectrum.

Not everyone has had this experience, and Im sorry that some have been through such pain etc, or whathave You in any aspect of their lives, in a relationship, faith , hope, employment, health etc...

I certainly believe that everyone has thier choices, voices, and knowledge to share, live with and grow from.

It saddens me that all of this has gotten rather out of hand, but i am also glad that people are passionate in their convictions etc.

I hope that we can all continue to stay here, co-exist, learn, heal and grow. choose our battles, and let go of the rest.
With love, and respect to all,
AW

May 5, 2005
12:20 am
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woundedspirit
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Is it really not possible to have a separate forum on this site for Christians? I am a christian so not saying it offends me but...if it is offending others...would it be so difficult?

May 8, 2005
9:13 pm
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CODA_Mom
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Ok WD,

I have read your post, though I do not agree with all that you have written concerning the words and works of a certain deity (with the initials "JC", shhh), but that's ok because I know where you're coming from.

I've pulled back for a little bit because of what mamac so correctly stated as "being stabbed in the heart". You and others may not ever be able to understand, but it doesn't matter at this point. What matters most to me is integrity...not to attack back when attacked, not to insult when being insulted and to love in spite of being told that this site is better off without "us" here. Hard work, calming those raging, Italian emotions 🙂

SC mentioned that we are family here, she does not realize how "on the mark" her statement is to me...my own dad used to mock my faith and even used to call me a "holy roller" when he was drunk (I was the only Christian in my family at the time and the scapegoat for all that went wrong). So you see, "just like family" is how this site started sounding to me...we love you, now keep your faith at the door.

Maybe I'm reacting to unfinished business in my own life, it doesn't matter. I do miss all of you, and I miss those who have left. I will stop in and out because I can't not help others.

Thank you for your concern and even your insults (j/k), certain things we will never compromise on but one thing we can agree on is that we need to help others, agreed?

Blessings (again, a saying of peace and good-will),

CM

May 8, 2005
11:31 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi CODA_Mom,

Well, it sounds like you got triggered and reexperienced some emotions that reminded you of your family experience. Happens to me all the time.

But really, I think if you read closely, you will see that the SC wasn't asking us to "leave our faith at the door," but to just be sensitive to the multiplicity of religious beliefs present on a public board like this one. And to be heavy handed and not use excessive
bandwidth for specific dogmas on the support threads side of the board.

Of course I understand what is like to feel judged about my spiritual beliefs, and to feel defensive on that account. I have a hard enough time describing my own beliefs even to myself.

I think the philosophical orientation of this site leaves a lot of room for discussion of spirituality, even religion. The trick is for us to be able to speak our hearts, our spirit and passion while remaining respectful and retaining some intellectual integrity.

I will give you a little bit of where I am coming from Jesus-wise. The Doobie Brothers sang about it in their song "Jesus is just alright."

To me, the great thing about Jesus is what he siad and did and taught, not what people have to say about him. I'm a Jefferson Bible kind of guy, specializing in the Synoptic Gospels. And the Ten Commandments, of course. I guess you could call me a radical esoteric "Christ-One."

It makes me sad when people throw the biblical baby out with the bathwater. And it hurts me more when people who think of themselves as Christians say and do things that I am convinced Jesus would not approve of.

Anyway, I see the value of "playing it cool" dogma-wise when offering support on a board intended for support mainly on mental health and relationship issues. Which amount to the same thing, I guess. I'm not above tossing off the occasional Jesus quote or teaching and I don't think I will get in trouble for it here.

I suggest you be your normal wise, warm professional self here, and dont change anything.

Like I said, I havent seen you thumping a bible here. I havent even been able to find "the" offending thread that touched this whole thing off. It might have been an accumulation of postings with some email complaints that did it.

I'm just suggesting "let's not be hasty."

With Love, WD

May 9, 2005
1:18 am
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bonita1
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Hurt so bad,

I have been re-reading this thread after all the drama that has been here on the AAC, and I love your post at the top of this thread. It is full of wisdom, love and compassion.

Thanking you for the post,

bonita 😀

(((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

May 9, 2005
3:35 am
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hopeinhim
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This may seem a little off the topic.......I don't know - I am unusually awake when I should be sleeping.

There was a man at my church who filled in for our pastor at church - he is always very fresh with his messages with very interesting ways of turning and looking at a situation in a unique way.

He was talking about Japan and how they do not accept Christianity yet at Christmastime they play US Christmas music galore, Santa, the whole works. He actually thought it was NEAT - because it could still lead people to the Christmas message, and the story of the babe in the manger.

Many are familiar with the debate of Santa versus Jesus during Christmastime. Well, I guess the SC stirring this pot is creating a lot of Passion (pun intended) - which is really cool.

WD- I guess we would be "storming", and it will be interesting to ride the waves!

I guess my point is that IF (disclaimer) you believe that there is a "God shaped hole" in all of us that it is not up to us to lead people to God. As far as I can tell this site is going to let us say what works for us - and it is not up to me to convert people. They will find their way through seeing other examples.

I can be an example, and I can say I am a Christian, and I can say I love and serve the Lord.

Thus, my nickname: hopeinhim when I joined the site several weeks ago.

May 9, 2005
5:48 am
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CODA_Mom
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here, here, hopeinhim...very well said and taken to heart. Guess this was a wake-up call for all of us. How do any of us know what we believe in until we're challenged?

WD -

Can you play "I've got a peaceful, easy feeling...'cause I'm already standin' on the ground..." (the Eagles?)

Love to all,

CM

May 9, 2005
3:56 pm
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hopeinhim
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CD

You are healing.........are you staying?

Maybe it is not going to be a black and white thing?

I did not post myself for about a week because I could only use the computer when others were around and I was SO busy.

But, I was initially disappointed of course - wondered WWJD.

Well, take care no matter what your decision!

May 9, 2005
6:41 pm
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CODA_Mom
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hopeinhim,

CD ? If you meant CM, yes, I'm back because I missed all you guys. Had time to think things thru and decide that maybe I was jumping ship too soon. I may have to stay in this Lib Threads more and learn to be a debater which I'm not good at, but hey, t'aint God's power perfected in our weakness ;)?

See you around,

CM

May 9, 2005
7:49 pm
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bonita1
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Coda Mom! I'm so happy to see you here!! 😀 😀 😀 😀

(((((((((((Big Giant Hugs))))))))))))

I missed you, too!!!

luv ya,

bonita

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