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The Worst President Ever?
February 24, 2007
12:51 pm
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Worried_Dad
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February 24, 2007
1:28 pm
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Loralei
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Interesting article. I have to agree that Bush is one of the worst we've ever had. I think his mom would have made a good president. She seems to be the only one in that batch to have a lick of sense.

February 24, 2007
2:21 pm
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Anonymous
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The moment I saw this thread I knew it had to be about Bush.

I think Clinton was one of the worst presidents we've ever had. He sold national secrets to the Chinese for politcal contributions, sold the Lincoln bedroom, too; brought a bunch of sleazeballs into the White House as staffers who refused to cooperate with the FBI on security checks and ended up changing the security criteria so that these people could stay at the White House, got the IRS to go after political enemies, tried to destroy the character of an innocent White house staffer in order to replace him with one of his or Hillary's cronies, lied under oath, did not capture Osama bin Laden when he had the chance, pardoned convicted felons, illegally solicited campaign contributions while president, etc.

I think these are far worse than anything that any other recent president has done. Why more people aren't up in arms about what he did is beyond me.

February 24, 2007
4:37 pm
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Anam Cara
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Clinton may have lied but he never hurt anyone

February 24, 2007
4:48 pm
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mamacinnamon
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I think Clinton hurt lots of folks. It just didn't appear like it. Lies always hurt someone, somehow.

February 24, 2007
7:25 pm
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Mamacinnamon.

"Lies always hurt someone, somehow."

But not as much as bullets.

February 24, 2007
7:54 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Tez:

I respectfully disagree. Lies can hurt or kill hundreds if it is national secrets that are sold and lied about. Maybe lies isn't the word I should be using. His lies are truths to him I spoze. Ya know.. he didn't inhale or have sex. Guess it's down to the definition there. Anyway, I think lies can devastate, mame, hurt, kill many; but then so can bullets.

February 24, 2007
8:12 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Ah, but THIS president just might do time in Abu Gahraib--might even get the death penalty. Crimes against humanity, etc.

February 24, 2007
8:42 pm
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Mamacinnamon

"Ya know.. he didn't inhale or have sex."

This statement of yours gives me the impression that his having smoked a joint and his infidelity with Ms. Lewinski rates highly amongst your reasons for disliking Clinton.

In my book both of these misdemeanors pale into insignificance by comparison with what Bush Snr and Bush Jnr have both initiated and done in Iraq. Remember Bin Laden and 9/11 had nothing to do with Saddam Hussein. In fact as I understand it, Saddam wanted no part of Al Queda.

February 24, 2007
9:22 pm
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Tez:

No, not rating high in my book compared to other matters. Just sarcastic remarks from me. I should know better. Shame on me.

🙂

February 24, 2007
11:24 pm
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lollipop3
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I can't speak on the subject for myself due to the fact that I am not educated enough about former administrations to give an informed response....however I will say that my father.....who is 80 years old....and who is educated and informed.....and has seen a lot of Presidents in his lifetime... has said repeatedly that George W. Bush is the worst President he has ever seen.

Just my (Dad's) two cents worth.

February 25, 2007
12:45 pm
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Anonymous
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lolli,

Why does you dad feel that way about George W. Bush? I be curious to know the reasons.

February 25, 2007
12:49 pm
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Anonymous
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Tez,

{"Lies always hurt someone, somehow."

But not as much as bullets. }

So are you saying it's acceptable for the president to lie, to perjure himself in court, to destroy the reputations of innocent people, and to sell national secrets for political contributions as long as nobody gets shot in the process?

Or are you saying that the mere fact of going to war, no matter how justified it might be, is the worst thing anybody can do?

February 25, 2007
1:18 pm
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Anonymous
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Lyndon Johnson took us into Vietnam, which resulted in far more American deaths that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have. Wouldn't this make him the worst recent president?

For that matter, Nixon got us out of Vietnam. Wouldn't that make him a pretty good president?

This is if you judge a president by how many deaths his wars create.

February 25, 2007
2:19 pm
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free
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"worst president ever"- this Is Hillary Clinton's saying. One must consider the source.

What rubbish! Iraq is not complete, yet you use the "war" as a basis for denegrating the President. While he ran against "nation building" he has begun the largest such endevour since WWII. The cost in lives is much lower than the liberation and pacification of France, Italy, Germany, any one of the islands occupied by Japan or Korea. This conflict will and must continue. Shrinking the "gap" began in our civil war when Northern aggressors liberated a people ruled and treated as property. Lincoln was hated. The Virginia legislature just (2007) voted down a proposal to join in a Lincoln celebration. Truman was also vilified and lost control of the House. Yet this conflict is different. Jefferson was forced to deal with pirates who refered to themselves as the "mujahadeen" who wished to spread Islam to its' former glory. "Black Jack" Pershing had a muslim insurrection in the Philipines that was only stopped by the execution of militants with bullets dipped in pig fat. Iraq must and will succeed. When that happens, history may have a very different view of the greatest liberator of the 21st century. Muslims throughout the world will be able to worship without fear of reprisals and retributions. Not a bad feat for the "worst President ever"

free

February 25, 2007
4:10 pm
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seekerw

On the 25-Feb-07 you asked:

"So are you saying it's acceptable for the president to lie, to perjure himself in court, to destroy the reputations of innocent people, and to sell national secrets for political contributions as long as nobody gets shot in the process?"

I'm not at all sure how you made that quantum leap in logic to even ask that question. Of course I am not saying that.

Then you attempted to pre-empt my answer by asking.

"Or are you saying that the mere fact of going to war, no matter how justified it might be, is the worst thing anybody can do?"

According to Christ it is. Turn the other cheek - remember?

Have you never pondered upon the truism "Violence breeds more violence"? Christ knew this - obviously.

Taking the life of another human being for reasons other than what is in the best interests of that person is the worst thing that you can do to and for that person.

Taking a nation to war, that is leading others into doing the killing for you, on phoney pretexts in order to achieve some self-centred objective(s) contained within a hidden agenda is a far worse evil than being unfaithful to one's wife or telling 'porkies' no matter how damaging those lies may be.

If you think about the title of this thread you will see (I hope) that it is about comparing the "evil men doest" and passing a value judgment upon same in estimating the actions which US president are the most evil.

I doubt that anyone here condones Clinton's behavior with Ms. Lewinski or any lies he might have told. Are you that naive to believe that 'porkies' are not stock in trade for all politicians? That statement should not be interpreted as my condoning politicians or anyone else telling lies - it is just an easily verifiable statement of fact. All politicians practice to deceive either by comission or omission. Truth is the ultimate casualty either way.

Are you on your white horse again protecting the ladies? If so then please don't shoot yourself in the foot. Whoops - that might be a mixed metaphor.

February 25, 2007
5:21 pm
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Anonymous
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free,

That was a brilliant post. Thank you. There's nothing like comparing the Iraq War to WWII, Vietnam, etc. to put it into proper perspective.

Seeker

February 25, 2007
5:28 pm
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Anonymous
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Tez,

I was making the point that maybe Bush isn't the worst president ever. So what I said about Clinton is relevant to this thread.

It's acceptable to use violence to prevent violent people from harming you or others. So your argument about violence begetting violence doesn't necessarily hold true. Sometimes it reduces violence.

February 25, 2007
6:49 pm
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free
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absolutely seeker.

We'd be speaking German if not for our entrance in WWII. Thank God we didn't "turn the other cheek" after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

It takes about 50 years to determine a president's place in history.

Their impact just cannot be determined while in office.

I believe it's Americans and American historians that determine a president's rankings amongst the people here. I don't think individual foreigners perspectives are considered. They would have an agenda associated with their own country and individual needs associated with that country.

free

February 25, 2007
7:40 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Actually this was not Hilary's idea--this was from a survey of 415 historians.

Bush's main problem is that by every meaningful measure of presidential accomplishment--he sucks. Not just the war. Everything.

And it all comes down to ethics. He took the job to make him and his billionaire friends a ton of money. Period. Mission accomplished.

February 25, 2007
9:02 pm
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1lost1
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Maybe we have no one but ourselves to blame for the mess. If society as a whole would stand up and back a true leader, we would have the nation we desire.

I think, there is someone out there who is trustworthy and devoted to his faith that can help us. Honestly, I do not believe him to be a politician.

Maybe I sound like a rambling idiot and maybe I am, but things are messed up and we only have ourselves to get us out of the mess.

February 26, 2007
3:40 pm
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on my way
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Well if Jeb Bush comes in behind him, what are you going to do? Maybe they are waiting until the last minute to announce the candidacy, but I could be wrong. They will be known as the Bush Dynasty. And if Hillary wins, I am moving to Australia.

February 26, 2007
5:53 pm
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truthBtold
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on my way,

Exactly my sentiments!!!! I was thinking along the lines of "Dynasty" anyway when first reading this thread - referring to both the Bush's and the Clinton's and your post nailed it on the head.

We need some new, fresh blood in the mix here.

(God FORBID if Jeb throws his hat into the ring!!!!)

February 26, 2007
5:57 pm
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bevdee
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I wonder if they can rig that election like they did for Dubya?

February 26, 2007
6:32 pm
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truthBtold
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Gosh Bevdee.......don't give me nightmares!!!!!!

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