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The way women are depicted in the bible...
November 24, 2008
11:22 am
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truthBtold
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Having been raised catholic - I remember thinking way back then that women in general, seemed to me to be depicted as either virgins or vixens.

I am not a scholar, by any means, in this regard.

I only know that that was my adolescent, gut-feeling conclusion.

I have tried MANY TIMES over the years to re-visit this conclusion - (benefit of the doubt....) but it keeps coming up the same.

Women basically = virgins or vixens.

Maybe someone here might be able to enlighten me as to just where this conclusion might be faltering in some way.

I like to watch: "The Potter's House" on TV with T D Jakes.

He makes alot of sense to me, especially on his sermons from his new book: "Before You Do - Making Great Decisions That You Won't Regret" seems pretty practical and right on target in many ways, to my mind.

I like him. One of the few that makes me think.

However, this show I saw last night talked about a whore, slut women seeking acceptance etc.....and it made me wonder....WHY IS IT that ALL THIS FOCUS is ALWAYS PLACED ON THE FEMALE....when nary nothing is ever mentioned as to the 'johns' who participate as well - you know?

That seems to have always been the case.

That the focus - indeed - even many derrogatory names/titles such as slut, whore etc are ALWAYS focused towards the women.....when it takes TWO to tangle - you know?

Why Not any derrogatory names to describe the men that partake?

Continues to leave me a little suspect about this whole slant/spin - you know?

Anyways, just something that I have been chewing on for quite sometime now and I invite posts which respectively (sp?)address this topic.

I KEEP TRYING to give the bible the benefit of the doubt concerning this year after year, decade after decade, yet - my gut keeps going back to the time as a child when first being preached to about the bible that.....something just ain't right here!!!!!

In comparison, I also remember reading a copy of Aesop's Fables around the same time - maybe in first or second grade - and after reading it - I was SOOOO impressed and remember thinking....now THAT'S a really good book!!!!!!!

I remember feeling that I had to just tell SOMEBODY about it!

I remember pointing to it as I went up to the school librian and saying.....you know what - this is a really good book! (As was the book I also had just read about Helen Keller!)

Afraid Aesop still has it going on....but then again - there HAS TO BE A REASON why the bible has been so popular all these years.

Am I missing something here - or was my initial conclusion about it all being pretty skewed as a 6 or 7 year old correct all along?

I wonder.......

(Which is a Good Thing.....I suppose....to still continue to wonder and question.....)

tBt

November 24, 2008
2:19 pm
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Randomwomen2
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There are my type of women in the bible sweetheart. I just did a study on a few of them. Now Im not catholic so im not sure how our interpretations differ but I know Tabitha/Dorcas was a scholar she was the only female disciple mentioned in my Bible there is Bathsheba who yes made a mistake by sleeping with David while she was still married but was blessed by having a son who was Solomon. There is no perfect women in the bible just like all the men (except) was not perfect. Look at king David He made many many mistakes but was still called a man after Gods own heart. Now women did play a different role back then times change and people change just like they are now. Back then a women wasn't anything with out a man I dont know why this was so but it was. There were a few exceptions though. the disciple Paul who was a great man wasn't so great when he was younger He was Saul who stoned Christians believing that he was doing Gods work. There are a lot of women who changed like Paul did. There was Mary Magdalene it was said that 7 demons were cast from her that she most likely was a prostitute (thats what the scholars think) but yet she loved Jesus and turned out to be a pretty good woman. This probably doesnt help at all.

November 24, 2008
2:27 pm
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Randomwomen2
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Not my type many type sorry

November 25, 2008
2:14 pm
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on my way
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Hi TB...

I see your point...but I look at it this way. Look at all of the influence and power we have been given as women! Think about it...we know how to use what we have over men at any given moment, and it has been that way since Adam and Eve!! tee, hee! 🙂 But the trick is using it with respsect for ourselves and the men in our lives and others, otherwise we could be looked at as the women you describe in your post.

I like Esther! There are many strong and influential women in the Bible!

November 25, 2008
5:49 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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Yes Esther was a great strong and used her influence wisely.

November 25, 2008
6:43 pm
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TBT,

I understand how you could get that view. But if you dig deeper you will find that God values women too.

Have you ever hear of the Vitrous Women? This in CH-31 of Proverbs.

God made us for a reason, he made us for purpose. He did not make us to be walked on or used. He made you as a vessel of honor. You are important to God, and He

Proverbs 31:25 AMF Bible A
Says "Strength and Diginty are her clothing and her postion is strong and secure.

Isn't that what we are striving for?
The website Below has a really good bible study that might help. Maybe you should check it out.

http://www.hem-of-his-garment-.....erb31.html

Tell me what you think.
TB

November 25, 2008
7:18 pm
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my family taught me that women have influence. It may not be PC but I think that we do and that it is a strong vital thing we have.

November 26, 2008
12:52 pm
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on my way
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TT,
I agree we do have influence...all the way back to Eve, and we can influence for good, or not so good. Good is perferable in my book!

November 26, 2008
1:04 pm
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exactly. You are so right, On My Way, that's why a bad woman is so bad she can influence so many and why good woman CAN make a difference in the world.

November 28, 2008
5:01 pm
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Paws4peace
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The world downgrades women so much especially today. It gets worse and worse every day. They laugh and joke about things that are sacred about women and it begins to wear on us and to a lot of people, its how life is, and its okay to them, its what they've become accustomed to. But you know what I've learned in my short years of life? The things that are the most important are the things that get attacked and beat the most. Woman are attacked with words, tv shows, books all manner of things, but thats because Satan knows what is important and he knows what he needs to attack the most.

Women are very important to every day life and life itself. the world just wants to tear that down to nothing but "virgins or Vixens". It just unfortunately the little crack in the door that Satan uses to pry into our lives... thats what I think anyway...

November 28, 2008
5:51 pm
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I think so too. That at a time like this when women are able to get education and work, some men still want to categorize us. they sneer at womanhood, childbearing, childrearing
ever notice that a strong minded man is admired but a strong minded woman is called a b---?

November 30, 2008
8:28 pm
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Is this turning into a "men bashing" thread? If so then I'll dissappear from this thread in a flash.

If not then, are we talking about 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, 1% or less of the males of the human species here?

Or are we only referring to the patriarchs mentioned within that subset of the collection of scriptures written by the scribes of ancient Israel; a subset that is contained within the Christian bible as the old testament?

December 1, 2008
3:28 pm
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on my way
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Hi Tez,
It isn't a men's bashing thread for me.

December 1, 2008
7:04 pm
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I didn't mean to come across as man bashing. I really meant to come across saying that I think women have more influence that they think they have and that they can really influence their loved ones.

I also deplore some of the messages we get in society today that women must look and act a certain way.

December 1, 2008
8:31 pm
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MsGuided
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http://skepticsannotatedbible....../index.htm

Clik on the link "Women", read the summation, and clik on the verse number to see the actual biblical quote. This site has extracted every verse that pertains to women.

(Heck! Clik on all the subjects!)

Does it all shed a positive light on women in general?

And why are all the babies born in the bible male? Hardly a mention of female births after Adam.

How can women be free from victimization with this book as a main source of spirituality?

This site shows you how women are depicted in it's own scriptures. Every part of it, Old and New testament.
Enjoy! if you can!

December 2, 2008
11:42 am
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Terriberry
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There is a lot of mis-information regarding the bible out there.

Some websites out there as well meaning as they can be are really just basically false information.

My suggestion is simple. Pick up the bible and read it.

Ask God to help you understand what you are reading. It is his inspired word of truth that will really give you the answers you are seeking.

God Bless,
TB

December 2, 2008
12:13 pm
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StronginHim77
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As a female minister and pastor, I have learned that gender bias DOES exist...but more in the "traditional church" than in the charismatic, Spirit-filled churches where the anointing speaks for itself.

If God didn't want to use women on an equal level with men, then why would He waste His anointing and empowerment on them? DUH.

- Ma Strong

December 2, 2008
12:13 pm
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bevdee
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"And why are all the babies born in the bible male?"

The bible OT is written as a genealogy
of Jesus. son of-son of-son of.

Well, there had to be some women or they couldn't have gone on - propagating the race. The answer is not in the bible, though. My guess is that those that wrote that thing and those that edited it, didn't see women as important, other than as brood mares. I suppose you could read the bible, wonder, speculate, then dream up some answer and call it divine inspiration. Since there are no answers there.

I have wondered if, like in the asian cultures, the female children in the bible time span were killed.

December 2, 2008
12:18 pm
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bevdee
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Strong

How long did women have to fight for that God given right to minister?

December 2, 2008
1:29 pm
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MsGuided
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well.. I posted the annotated Bible because it is the full bible.

Except emphasis was put into sectioning off subjects. Every subject has the author and scripture number. None of the scripture is altered.

Nothing wrong with that.

I know. It is so hard to see the truth.

Brainwashing is a horrible thing.

December 2, 2008
1:57 pm
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BTW.I thought this was about the bible? not some unmentioned interpretaion, or branching off.

If equality exists within the church now..prove it!

I mean look at the whole picture.

I still think about those poor elderly Nuns in Cali, who got evicted from their homes to help pay for the pedophile priests doings.

They had their home expropriated , so the church could sell them off to pay the settlement. The deadline to leave is December 31st..Happy New Year!

I guess the church has no money right?

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2.....ex-crimes/

December 2, 2008
2:14 pm
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Terriberry
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In digging deeper I found this website explaining more of about the version of the bible you are discussing.

I respect that we differnce in views, but it can be misleading to Christians that are new to their walk with GOD. That's my only here point. So it good to see both sides of the story, right and wrong.

Decide for yourselfs.

Question: "What is the Skeptic's Annotated Bible?"

Answer: The Skeptic's Annotated Bible - http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ - is a website dedicated to pointing out all of the supposed errors, contradictions, and discrepancies in the Bible. The Skeptic's Annotated Bible divides the supposed errors into the following categories: injustice, absurdity, cruelty and violence, intolerance, contradictions, family values, women, good stuff, science and history, prophecy, sex, language, interpretation, and homosexuality. It is not the purpose of this article to refute every issue the Skeptic's Annotated Bible raises (there are over 6,000). For our responses to the "Cruelty Short List," please click here.

It is the purpose of this article to point out the fallacies behind the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. First, we commend the Skeptic's Annotated Bible for giving the "Good Stuff" section - http://www.skepticsannotatedbi...../long.html. It is rare for an atheist / anti-Christian website to say anything positive about the Bible and/or Christianity. At the same time, the "Good Stuff" section is the only place the Bible is treated with any respect or logic. In regard to the "contradictions" and "absurdities" sections, please read our article on Bible errors, contradictions, and discrepancies. The sections on homosexuality and tolerance can be answered simply and concisely. Speaking the truth and not tolerating sin is the most loving thing we can do. Ignoring evil and promoting ungodliness may be seen as tolerant, but it does not result in anything truly positive.

The sections on "injustice," "family values," "cruelty and violence," and "women" fail to account for an important concept—the Bible was written to reform our souls, not our societies. While the teachings of the Bible were revolutionary in the protection they gave to slaves, women, etc., some of the commands and statements seem brutal and unjust to our modern minds. God "breathed out" the Bible in an ancient culture. God approached the sins of man from the "inside out." If a man comes into a relationship with God, God will reform his heart, teach him to love, to respect, to forgive. Yes, some of the laws in the Bible seem brutal and primitive, but if a person had a genuine relationship with God, the laws would not even be necessary.

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible's section on "sex" does nothing but point out all the various verses in the Bible that mention sex. Why is this section even necessary? Yes, the Bible talks about sex. Sex is, obviously, an important aspect of life in this world. It is normal, therefore, for the Bible to address human sexuality. The "interpretations" section is filled with difficult verses and passages. However, these difficulties are answered in detail in nearly every major Bible commentary. The existence of a difficult passage is meaningless in verifying or rejecting the inspiration of the Bible.

Again, if you have questions about the Skeptic's Annotated Bible or have found something in the Skeptic's Annotated Bible that you cannot explain, please feel free check this website out.

http://www.gotquestions.org/sk.....Bible.html

December 2, 2008
2:34 pm
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bevdee
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Terriberry

You say - "I respect that we differnce in views, but it can be misleading to Christians that are new to their walk with GOD. That's my only here point." So?

I think it's probably ok to discuss matters that don't coincide with a traditional Xtian view. Personally, I don't consider it my responsibility to help further a new Xtian's walk with their god, or to protect them from info that does not coincide with the bible. I have never understood that to be the purpose or mission of this site - to help new Xtians on their path. There are other sites for that kind of stuff. Are discussions that don't coincide with your beliefs worrisome to you?

I like that skeptics annotated bible because it gives a different perspective on what I consider to be confusing conflicting stories. I don't have to believe all of it, any more than I believe any or all of the Xtian bible.

December 2, 2008
2:39 pm
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Well, the story of Bathsheba always irritated me, because it has been presented as a story of a temptress, temptation, punishment and forgiveness, but I felt she got the bad rap.

David was on a roof and saw her bathing. Right there - he's kind of a peeper!! He inquired about and sent for her, which meant he used his influence to track her down and bring her to him. (Stalking, misuse of power) At that point, he had to know she was married, but it didn't stop him. Did she have a choice? Do you reckon a woman had a choice when a king sent for her (commanded her presence is more likely) and wanted to sleep with her? I bet she didn't. She belonged to her husband, whose goods belonged to his king.

He doesn't keep her around, when she informs him she is pregnant, he sends for her husband, Uria, who wouldn't go home to his comfortable bed and wife when his comrades could not have the same privilege. David has to change plans so he has him killed. (sociopath?) She grieves her husband, the King marries her, because she is pregnant. Their first son died. This is supposedly the punishment for "their" fornication.

What choices did this woman, in this time, have? Other than to ask that their second son be given the throne, a promise he tried to renege on? What does the bible say to explain any of the dynamic between all the players in this story? It chronicles the events leading up to the marriage of Bathsheba and David, and the subsequent birth of their second son, Solomon. It's part of the genealogy of Jesus.

December 2, 2008
3:29 pm
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Ah.....and this is why I feel so comfortable as an agnostic. It sure keeps in tact the powers of rational and skeptical thought.
If i wanted to find the truth i certainly wouldn't research within a belief systems fortress.

It's similar to what drug companies do today to get their pharmaceuticals on the market. All the research is done by bodies within the industry. All of the research is funded by profits and supporters of the Pharm industry.
Same goes for the FDA.There is no motivation to point out flaws because it's tantamount to shooting oneself in the foot.

Monopolies and corruption. There is no descending voice, critical thought or truth once an organization has absolute power.

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