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The trouble with religious fanaticism
August 31, 2009
3:02 pm
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CraigCo
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Following is an excerpt from an article by D.M.Murdock regarding the link between religious fanaticism and disregard for the well being of our planet. Food for thought:

>"By now, many may be wondering if I will be tracing every human ill to religious fanaticism, mania, pathology and psychosis. On a global scale, there is much to be said for the notion that religious delusion has created a tremendous amount of suffering, including and significantly as concerns environmental degradation. Those who are too young to remember the predominant attitude of the past several decades, and who now see a complete turnabout from many of the religiously devout regarding our Mother Earth, may not be able to fathom the degree to which this contention is true. In reality, the current green sentiment from the religious segment of society is a very new phenomenon, albeit a highly welcome one. Just a few short years ago, those of a fanatical religious stripe were virulently anti-environmental, as many continue to be to this day".

If you care to read more, here's the link:

http://www.examiner.com/x-1700.....eethought- Examiner~y2009m8d28-Pacific-garbage-patch-and- religious-fanaticism

August 31, 2009
8:45 pm
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MsGuided
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Hey CC!

I see you get the same weekly emails i get.

As u and I know it was religion that turned people away from nature ( pagan earth based worship, knowledge of astrology and astronomy.) All these centuries have been spent trying to release ourselves from nature.

Technology, herbicides, insecticides, GMO's. Yea lets take orders from "god" and play god in the process.

To know, understand and live in harmony with everything on the planet, be aware of the seasonal signals sent by following the movements of the solar system, made people aware, happy and with little use for religion or stewardship.

There's that telling quote from the bible, Genesis 1:28 "and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth

As if we can control the complexities of weather, flora and fauna. Maybe to a point ( in reality symbiosis is the goal) But come on! That was the "Genesis" of where things went wrong.

It gave people license to overendulge and feel entitled.

The serpent and the tree of knowledge. Adam and Eve. What a load of BUNK! Make people fear and withdraw from the night.

How convenient was it to pack creationism, or evolution into a formula that favours men over women and all other living things, as if it were like building a house with a servants quarters.

Seven Days! Even if it were symbolic it's ridiculous! It doesn't fit with reality.

It took the Roman Catholics almost 400 years( 200 B.C. to 200 A.D.) to wipe knowledge from peoples grasp, replace it with myth, 1500 yrs or so to terrorize, brutalize and murder anyone who opposed them.

Now the planet is heaving, spitting, coughing with all we've done, and getting sicker. People alternate kindness with tyrany in this power dance of destruction.

Extinctions are rampant and people can't ignore it anymore.We are getting sicker and mutations of all sorts are on the rise. Cancer. Now that's a real symptom of being poisoned.

Pretty soon there will be no frogs anymore. Frogs are being wiped out faster than the dinosaur extinctions, because of a skin fungus. It's a "mystery" and scientists are working to save whats left.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....124252.htm

When so much is lost is GOD going to take 7 days to re-create it all? or will he abandon us? I though he was all knowing? Why isn't "god doing anything NOW!? Why did "god" react so swiftly to the sodomites, all his subjects during ancient times and seems so absent now?

maybe Katrina was sent by "god"....so much for favouRing the poor. "God" still doesn't give a shit, but people like Mike Holmes and Brad Pitt do!

I could go on and on with all the gaps of logic, the hypocracies in the Bible, But i wasn't brainwashed or indoctrinated. I retained my ability to reason and know the importance of comparative study.

I figure it will be another million years, of cell splitting, microorganisms in the deep sea or caves, to create an simple life form.

I'm not professing to know what created life on this planet, but it sure took a lot of time, we sure do need to respect ALL OF IT to really respect ourselves., throw away all the religious BS that's been fed us, and embrace reality!

It's taking a very short time for humans to kill off this wonderful mosaic of life. So much for Gods wishes.

Maybe less ego would of helped. maybe giving MOTHER and sister as much respect as Father and son would of helped.

Balance. Now there's something to live by. Sustainability and balance.

September 1, 2009
8:32 am
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CraigCo
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Ah yes, my fellow cross examiner of religion. Appreciate your feedback. I can remember in times past when I had questioned whether or not I was just being paranoid or was there something to this religion/conspiracy stuff.

But then I'd meet that one in a thousand or more, individual who is both intelligent and also entertains similar doubts & questions that ultimately surface as revelations backed up such surprisingly powerful facts that have only fairly recently come much closer to light through such intellectual, free thinking individuals such as D.M.Murdock.

> "How convenient was it to pack creationism, or evolution into a formula that favours men over women and all other living things, as if it were like building a house with a servants quarters."

Yes, It doesn't bare any resemblance to a divine plan, doesn't it? Albeit pretty handy for the "dudes" in charge both then & now.

Nothing of the media propaganda has a real effect on me anymore. Having glimpsed behind the veil draped over the ruling elite, I've been somewhat disturbed in my mind & soul by the duality of all their plottings, their attempts to keep us off balance and in fear. It is the age we live in. The policy we have now serves only to basically impoverish and enslave. I do believe, however, that we are nearing the end of this period. This age of the "Class society" where just a handful of men oppress the multitudes.

This past several thousand year odyssey has come to its end & soon the age of revolution will be upon us yet again. Perhaps tomorrow, or in the lifetimes of our children. I think that this is going to be a highly transitional century, no doubt.

I dont' believe that the Human Spirit can be chained forever & it is the proven purpose of religion to do just that! Why else why would things proceed with such secrecy?

>"Maybe less ego would of helped. maybe giving MOTHER and sister as much respect as Father and son would of helped. Balance. Now there's something to live by. Sustainability and balance."

Balance between men & women and our relationship with nature is definitely key. I remember my Dad's words; "If there were a God, wouldn't he have to be looking down upon us now saying - No, no, you people have got it all wrong!"

But no, rather he's condemning all of us unbelievers to eternal suffering if we don't play by his rules. I guess God just considers this biblically instigated anti-environmental stance as just collateral damage of sorts. All part of the great master plan, ya know!? lol

Peace!

September 1, 2009
4:40 pm
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glittered when he walked
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The "trouble" with religious fanatcism?

IMO it's nothing BUT trouble. I fail to see any "good" that religion is capable of that a humanistic lifestyle could not also achieve.

I am devoutly irreligious. : )

September 1, 2009
4:42 pm
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Have either of you read Sam Harris' "End of Faith?"

September 1, 2009
5:49 pm
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MsGuided
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I totally agree G-mun.

I haven't read "End of Faith". Guess I'll have to look it up.

hmmmm lets see.

So Harris believes religion on all levels is responsible for perpetuating and feeding violence, and serves to seperate us on social levels. Punish thy Neighbour if he don't have a cross over the door and likes walking around naked in his backyard? ( I remember being socially ostracized for being a Nudist) Even moderate religion and it's followers feed the seperation and guard the lies with biblical reasoning.

I've always believed that. Religion is not a bastion of peace, inclusion and understanding. Modern folks believe that because the job was carried out, and all the killing/cleansing was in the past. The final stage is the one where kindness is preached, ignoring how they all got there. Lot's of innocent humans suffered and are buried under those churches. That's exclusive to the flock, peace and understanding, but what of us wolves snakes and lions? That message may ensnare people into the belief but most of it is based on intolerance, repression, fear or disdain toward another group( even if the disdain is put forth as "god will judge in the end it isn't my place
" More BS, The religious just recede and let the scriptures speak, but your not going to share a dinner table or babysit eachothers kids.) The chosen people will choose your destiny?

I just can't ignore all the inhumane, rediculous claims opting for the humane and sane.

I'm going to FEEL and experience what I fear, face it on earths plane if i have the ability and stamina and I KNOW "god" ain't going to help me. God and his followrs holding the match that will light my sacrificial bonfire. Aw well. Right now they just ignore me and call me crazy. HEEHEEEEE

The truly humanitarian writings are ALL stolen from pagan based spirituality and they were inclusive for ALL.

Slightly altered but the core comes from older beliefs. Theft through the centuries has formed these religions.

Xtianity had to assimilate ideas to get people on board, along with all the killing.

Religion and politics have always been a tag team in Canada. And we are viewed as a peaceful tolerant nation?

Plenty of lies, torture and persecution have resulted in this nations formation. The other tactic is "IGNORE", if a dissident has no influence.

Best to just try and hide all that or destroy anyone who dredges it up.

I said I wasn't going to "go there anymore" but I'll post my views with like minded folk on anti-religious threads.

Peace!

September 2, 2009
6:01 pm
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truthBtold
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Along these lines......has anyone been watching the "History Channel" recently?

They are currently airing some pretty incredible stuff!!! IMO.

You know, it is kind of amazing to to watch shows about Greek & Roman Mythology and make the connection that many, MANY of the same stories/scenerios back then (Hell, virgin births all kinds of stuff!) have weaved their way into the 'modern' christian 'beliefs' and stories of today.

I put the word 'beliefs' in quotes because well, you know, folks at one time actually thought and believed that the earth was really flat!

At one time.

Like, they much have sat around the beach and pointed to the horizon and said, you know, if you follow that all the way to the end, you'll just fall off the face of the earth and just go floating out in space somewhere.....you know?

Of course now we know just how ridiculous that is!

But back then - that is what they truly believed to be true, without a doubt!

I am kind of feeling that nowadays.

That all of it is myth.

Geesh, years and years ago I remember watching on PBS, Bill Moyers interviewing Joesph Campbell on many of his books, most notably: "The Power of Myth".... and I wish I could remember a line which really summed it all up - something about beliefs 'of the day' eventually transform themselves into myths when it is discovered that there is really no basis for it in reality....(or something like that - I hope I haven't botched it up too much as it has been quite sometime...) It really was quite an incredible series back then!

Anyway, just my little 2 cents thrown into the pot......

In any event, (It would appear to me) that the current generation growing up nowdays seems to be much more critical and logical and savvy then my generation ever was in terms of just no longer accepting religious dogma as simply a blanket fact to be 'worshipped' and accepted as truth without question or concern as to the motivations which simmer just beneath it - you know?

(Has anyone else maybe noticed this in the current generation?)

September 2, 2009
6:01 pm
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truthBtold
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Along these lines......has anyone been watching the "History Channel" recently?

They are currently airing some pretty incredible stuff!!! IMO.

You know, it is kind of amazing to to watch shows about Greek & Roman Mythology and make the connection that many, MANY of the same stories/scenerios back then (Hell, virgin births all kinds of stuff!) have weaved their way into the 'modern' christian 'beliefs' and stories of today.

I put the word 'beliefs' in quotes because well, you know, folks at one time actually thought and believed that the earth was really flat!

At one time.

Like, they much have sat around the beach and pointed to the horizon and said, you know, if you follow that all the way to the end, you'll just fall off the face of the earth and just go floating out in space somewhere.....you know?

Of course now we know just how ridiculous that is!

But back then - that is what they truly believed to be true, without a doubt!

I am kind of feeling that nowadays.

That all of it is myth.

Geesh, years and years ago I remember watching on PBS, Bill Moyers interviewing Joesph Campbell on many of his books, most notably: "The Power of Myth".... and I wish I could remember a line which really summed it all up - something about beliefs 'of the day' eventually transform themselves into myths when it is discovered that there is really no basis for it in reality....(or something like that - I hope I haven't botched it up too much as it has been quite sometime...) It really was quite an incredible series back then!

Anyway, just my little 2 cents thrown into the pot......

In any event, (It would appear to me) that the current generation growing up nowdays seems to be much more critical, skeptical, logical and savvy then my generation ever was in terms of just no longer accepting religious dogma as simply a blanket fact to be 'worshipped' and accepted as truth without question or concern as to the motivations which simmer just beneath it - you know?

(Has anyone else maybe noticed this in the current generation?)

September 2, 2009
6:04 pm
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truthBtold
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sorry for double post - only difference is the addition of the word 'skeptical' towards the end (thought I caught in time before first one posted...) sorry.

September 3, 2009
5:20 pm
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I love the history channel, but I missed the the Myths show of which you speak.

I think most of religion is based on fear. Fear of death/fear of the unknown. Lucius Annaeus Senceca said: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

September 4, 2009
4:11 pm
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CraigCo
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Truth,

>"In any event, (It would appear to me) that the current generation growing up nowdays seems to be much more critical, skeptical, logical and savvy then my generation ever was in terms of just no longer accepting religious dogma as simply a blanket fact to be 'worshipped' and accepted as truth without question or concern as to the motivations which simmer just beneath it - you know?"

Yes, and that's comforting to know. The truth will ultimately prevail! Just a matter of time, I believe. You can only bullshit the masses for so long until folks begin to question the validity of religion. They are beginning to see how logically flawed & devoid of sound reasoning religion is.

Glittered,

>"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

Yeah I agree, that pretty much sums it up.

Praise the universe!

(Em - former miss nudey Canada)

September 5, 2009
8:56 am
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MsGuided
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OMG ( [email protected])

That's a blast from the past ( for me)
I used to go to a nudist colony that held a few Miss Nude World Competitions.

No big deal.It was a hellofalot more tame than a wet tee-shirt contest!

We can all go back to the garden of eden and resume how it should be, before some idiot came up with the idea of a Xtian God.

What a party pooper.

September 5, 2009
9:27 pm
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CraigCo
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(M)

"Party pooper" LOL No kidding, and that's putting it mildly!

So, were there no Mr. Nude World competitions? No big deal there either? Nudge-wink lol Twas lame one - I know

So, how's your weekend going? Had a small job canceled on Friday so I've been mostly sitting around with nothing going on work-wise until Tues. It's an exterior job so I'm sure hoping the weather lasts. Can't afford anymore delays, plus I'm going stir crazy.

September 7, 2009
12:01 am
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MsGuided
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Hey CC!!

We went to Canada's Largest Ribfest! Saw some live music there Friday Eve ( local band)and took my Dad there for dinner yesterday. It was busy as HECK, HOT and expensive. I felt bad dragging my dad around the park 'cause he uses a wlaker now, but he said he enjoyed it.

I'm going to dig up Hades and suffer the stench after that!!

We're having septic problems so we had to dig it up, pump out the tank, then snake it...OH yesssssssss! Call upon the great snake to clear out any stoppages and purge the evil sludge!!

Plus finish our steps to the deck. The tank overflowing has made the ground stay wet where we need to work.

We got up late, and our good neighbours popped by for a visit so the progress wasn't as expected.

It didn't get done today so guess what our Labour day will entail!?

I hope you had some alternate plans for the weekend and work picks up for you soon! Exterior job huh? Are you a tradesman?

I keep waiting for the bottom to drop out for me. For things to dry up and wither away. So far so good! But I do need more work of a better quality.

Aw well! let us pray!HA!

September 10, 2009
5:48 am
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CraigCo
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Greetings Emster,

Hey you! How are things? Hope the tasty ribs offset the heat & expense at that outing with your Dad. That was sure nice of ya to do. I know that I'd appreciate one of my kids doing that for me.

So, did you manage to get your stair project completed? What a nice way to have spent your weekend - Not!

Say, have you seen the Zeitgeist challenge? Basically, just some Xtian nuts claiming to have debunked the movie. Their attempts were to be expected of course. Reportedly some involved even went as far as to pretend to be atheists responding the the purported debunking. Siding with the xtians in their refusal to believe a number of the claims made in the movie. Funny how an atheist's opinion is used in a effort to give credence to their viewpoint. Ultra lame, I'd say.

Had a pretty uneventful weekend myself. My vehicle broke down while I was out of town recently. I would like to have repaired it myself but, given its location I didn't have the means. Consequently, I had to have it towed to a garage where it presently sits awaiting repair. Ah well, it's always somethin, aint it? You know the drill!

So far, the weather has been good for that exterior job I had mentioned. With winter on the horizon, I'm making an effort to secure more work as the trade that I work at mainly, is of the seasonal windfall variety. Making some headway with that but not nearly enough to feel comfortable with yet.

Gotta get up early tomorrow so I should be in bed now, but I'm up with a toothache at present. I thought I'd try to take my mind off of it by checking in here while I wait for a pain killer to take effect. (Codeine) I had kept some around for a time such as this. Don't like taking those things but, when you're in pain - what the hell! I've been putting off a trip to the dentist as it's so damned costly as you know. Being self employed I can't take advantage of any medical type benefits. It's either straight out of pocket or suffer. But enough about that. Things could be worse. (somehow that's not as comforting as I'd like it to be)lol

Anyway M, here's to a brighter tomorrow! (cautiously optimistic)

September 14, 2009
8:49 pm
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I found this article online. This is the prologue>

>>"Our world today is torn asunder by men and women who claim that
God is on their side, and who, secure in the righteousness of their
positions, perpetrate acts of violent destruction. Such individuals are
driven by the certainty that they are privy to sacred truths and are
therefore morally obligated to do everything in their power—no matter
how many people may suffer—to act upon these truths. Coupled with
their inflated sense of personal rectitude, moral certainty, and ideological
purity is a tendency to dehumanize and even demonize those who oppose
them.
Although this disorder can be called “religious fanaticism,” those
afflicted need not appear wild-eyed or deranged; quite the contrary, they
can present themselves as thoughtful and responsible people inspired by
the loftiest of ideals. Nevertheless, their absolute confidence in themselves
and their cause, their willingness to create massive destruction for a
supposed higher good, and their dehumanization of their opponents, all
indicate the imbalance of a personality disorder.
We need not point out
specific examples of this disorder perhaps, except to say that it can afflict
anyone, from the person on the street, to the international terrorist, to
the leader of the most powerful nation on earth. "<< The article goes on to describe how a damaged psyche becomes vulnerable to religious fanaticism and has a relation to Transpersonal Identity Disorder. The first stages are as follows: >>In psychosynthesis terms, religious fanaticism begins healthily enough,
with experiencing at the higher unconscious levels of the psyche. At these
levels of experience, one can for example sense such things as a
connection to something greater than oneself, a transcendence of duality,
a profound sense of universal meaning, or a union with Divinity or Spirit.
These beneficial “peak,” “unitive,” or “mystical” experiences have been
much studied in humanistic and transpersonal psychology, and have been
found to be far more common than generally supposed (see for example,
Maslow, 1962, 1971).
In encountering these wonderfully enlightening experiences, however,
we may begin to treasure them so highly that we are led to identify with
them, to consider them as who we most truly are. Such a transpersonal
identification (Firman & Gila, 2002) can in turn lead to attitudes, beliefs,
and behaviors based on this strong valuation and even idealization of the
higher, and these may over time develop into a coherent personality.
Such a personality is thus founded on the assumption that this higher
level of experience is the most true, real, or ideal, coupled with a
tendency to dismiss other, more mundane, levels of experience as inferior
or illusory.
This type of personality belongs to a category that we can call
transpersonal identity disorder (TID), to be discussed more fully later in
this paper.<< This sounds like getting high on drugs. The parallels are there with addiction except the spiritual experience can be brought on by some form of meditation and the person who embraces this as reality get's hooked on this ideal or Ideology. It's worth a full read for anyone interested in how the Medical establishment views fanaticism and describes how it becomes possible. http://www.psychosynthesispalo.....us_Fan.pdf

September 18, 2009
10:53 pm
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_anonymous
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I heard from psychiatrists that religion becomes a problem whenever someone replaces reality with it.

September 21, 2009
4:46 pm
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Destiny.

That's pretty much what this article describes.

It's like a high brought on by meditation. Or chemical imabalnces in the brain can lead some to fanaticism.

Drugs are an easier route to altered states, but people can put themselves into a psychotic trance by using meditative practices.

For anyoen who is religious, this thread is about fanatisim and extremes.

I'm not knocking religious belief that respects others beliefs or helps the average person cope with pain.

"Harm none unless for self defense or for food." is my basic premise here.

September 21, 2009
7:04 pm
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MsGuided- I asked a psychologist his opinion about people who claim that they can overcome serious problems in their life such as drug addiction and alcoholism through religion. He stated no way that people would need cognitive therapy in order to learn new behaviors. In other words he didnt agree. The psychologist who told me that is religious.

September 21, 2009
8:03 pm
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HA! round and round.

So that psychologist was a conformist or had huge gaps in logic, wasn't capable of critical thought?

I examine why a person turns to religion.

Why turn to drugs, having a substance control a persons life to the point of addiction.

ESCAPE. ( I don't think moderate or occasional use is wrong)

Maybe a humans need to escape is greater than the pain, effort and WORK it takes to get real. To me and many others that means rejecting a lot of what is presented to us as normal or right. Lots of lies are fed us every day and most just aren't aware of it.

Not much is real except the tangible. What you can see and feel in your hands, take in with all senses, is REAL.

Words and beleifs have to be based on the tangible or with emotional relating, actions.

( you dealt with an addict so you know how many wasted words are dispensed)

People connect to fantasy, lies or addictions to get through the day.

Some of it is harmless, some is not.

It's a cowards way out.

We're all cowards to a degree.It's part of our culture.

September 21, 2009
8:28 pm
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I think some people get so used to avoiding pain or dealing with it that it alters the chemistry in their brain.

I am finally becoming aware of the lies and it is overwhelming.

What lies are you rejecting now?

Dealing with addicts has taught me quite a bit.

September 21, 2009
8:54 pm
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yea OVERWHELMING.

There's lots of things that alter the chemistry of our brains. We're also being poisoned through our water, air and food.

Flouride in water for instance. It reduces IQ, causes Kidney stones ( I drank flouridated tap water all my life and had to get an operation for HUGE kidney stones when i was 39. I was very sick, Now I have a drilled well, have been drinking spring water and i have no more problems BUT what is in ground water? UGH) cancers, and it was all proven in the 20's and 30's.

Studies prove harm for so many things but then the Pharm and chemical companies push their agendas through with lobbying. The studies get "buried" and only skilled researchers dig them back up.

I posted another Video on "Who Owns us All" that explains this, and MANY other aspects that are making victims of us all.

What lies?

My family dynamic and dysfunction perpetuated by my Father and older sister ( who is the legal guardian of my dad now) How the dysfunction just carries through generations. It's just a mess and I'm trying to find a healthy way to cope with this and navigate my own life better. I realize how my programming, famillial influences has carried through to my son and try to maintain trust, honesty and loyalty with him.

( I'm obviously struggling)

Everyday dealings with products and purchases. I'm trying to protect myself from the additives and foods that are dangerous to my families health.I try to buy everything in it's natural state. No processing or synthetic materials.

Religion obviously!

My own lies. The ones I take on to just protect myself from harm. I struggle with this all the time.

Lies and compassion. I go through this complicated process to find reasonable humility. Trying not to judge others for what they are forced to do, to protect themselves.

I draw the line when what they do harms others in a big way.

What about you?

September 21, 2009
10:43 pm
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MsGuided- No doubt the water is full of chemicals and toxins. I used to buy distilled. Now that you mentioned this I will go back to it again. Now that some of my children are adults with families of their own I can see generations of my families dysfunction coming out. I have 2 younger ones still at home that I am making an effort so they will have a different outcome.

I cant believe what goes into processed food. I cant eat MSG, caffeine, etc. I definatly feel better when I eat no sugar and processed food. As a matter of fact today I have started to pay attention to what I eat. I get addicted to sugar really easy.

I need religion for my peace of mind. I hate thinking about the reality of life.

As far as my lies in my life are concerned that is something I will have to think about but getting it sorted out will definatly improve my life.

Thanks for taking my mind off of my mundane life. I feel like I am in auto pilot most of the time.

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