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The Prince and the Magician
January 14, 2007
9:28 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Once upon a time there was a young prince who believed in all things but three. He did not believe in princesses, he did not believe in islands, and he did not believe in God. His father, the king, told him that such things did not exist. As there were no princesses or islands in his father's domains, and no sign of God, the prince believed his father.

But then, one day, the prince ran away from his palace and came to the next land. There, to his astonishment, from every coast he saw islands, and on these islands, strange and troubling creatures whom he dared not name. As he was searching for a boat, a man in full evening dress approached him along the shore.

"Are those real islands?" asked the young prince.

"Of course they are real islands," said the man in evening dress.

"And those strange and troubling creatures?"
"They are all genuine and authentic princesses."

"Then God must also exist!" cried the young prince.

"I am God," replied the man in evening dress, with a bow.

The young prince returned home as quickly as he could.

"So, you are back," said his father, the king.

"I have seen islands, I have seen princesses, I have seen God," said the prince reproachfully.

The king was unmoved.
"Neither real islands, real princesses nor a real God exist."

"I saw them!"

"Tell me how God was dressed."

"God was in full evening dress."

"Were the sleves of his coat rolled back?"

The prince remembered that they had been. The king smiled.

"That is the uniform of a magician. You have been deceived."

At this, the prince returned to the next land and went to the same shore, where once again he came upon the man in full evening dress.

"My father, the king, has told me who you are," said the prince indignantly. "You deceived me last time, but not again. Now I know that those are not real islands and real princesses, because you are a magician."

The man on the shore smiled.

"It is you who are deceived, my boy. In your father's kingdom, there are many islands and many princesses. But you are under your father's spell, so you cannot see them."

The prince pensively returned home. When he saw his father, he looked him in the eye.

"Father, is it true that you are not a real king, but only a magician?"

The king smiled and rolled back his sleeves.
"Yes, my son, I'm only a magician."

"Then the man on the other shore was God."

"The man on the other shore was another magician."

"I must know the truth, the truth beyond magic."

"There is no truth beyond magic," said the king.

The prince was full of sadness. He said "I will kill myself."

The king by magic caused Death to appear. Death stood in the door and beckoned to the prince. The prince shuddered. He remembered the beautiful but unreal islands and the unreal but beautiful princesses.

"Very well," he said, "I can bear it".

"You see, my son," said the king, "you, too, now begin to be a magician."

From "The Magus" by John Fowles.

January 15, 2007
12:49 am
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There is another theory that I just realized just now by seeing you and some other people, WD.

People who enjoy or prefer fantasies and make belief and 'vague' stuff are actually deeply terrified from their own reality. Something seems to make sense in all this picture when I see people who choose to run away from reality and keep attempting to obscure it, and those who are not afraid of embracing it. Very interesting. I dont get these kinds of insights often. I should write them down. I hope I dont forget them.

People who are very comfortable with their reality and happy with it, are not afraid of seeing things for what they are.

Everything in this world is emotion driven.

January 15, 2007
12:59 am
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free
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Reality: Just DO it!

Yeah, it's definitely scary. But it can't annihilate us kuz we're a part of it. And what doesn't destroy us can only make us stronger.

So......

embrace it!

happy, happy, joy-joy!

January 15, 2007
1:04 am
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This is a very interesting realization you know. I wish there was some way a public survey could be done. What kinds of different external realities does a person deny? And to what degree is he or she comfortable with their own self and their own internal reality? I bet there's a correlation. Interesting. hmm.

January 15, 2007
2:29 am
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Worried_Dad
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I think it was Phillip K. Dick whos defined Reality as:

That which does not go away simply because yo stop believing in it.

January 15, 2007
4:42 am
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Reality is something to be conquered. You either rise above your reality and strive for better or it can suck you in and keep you pinned into a little box that you cannot escape from.

January 15, 2007
8:35 am
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There's a difference between something that is obvious, where you can see the full picture and be aware of everything and are able to accept it fully - and a vision where you can only see a part of the reality which you have chosen to see and the rest you chose to ignore and deny.

January 15, 2007
11:14 am
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HI Guest: So nice to see you again. So where'd ya been?

Do you not think that reality to be conquered is not based on a whole lot of belief and hope and the unseen? ie, where your next meal comes from? if your child will live or die, if you will wake up breathing tomorrow or not, if the evils of the past will be waiting around the corner to kill you?

If you can ignore and deny then you are in that little box. It takes no
vision, no strength, no mind to live in a box where everything is supposedly "safe" (ignored and denied).

In my world it's that way. Yours?

January 15, 2007
11:28 am
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on my way
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Read "HOUSE" by Ted Dekker.

January 15, 2007
1:08 pm
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One thing I've discovered about guest and wd mamma: if you miss 'em and wanna "see" 'em, post something about Mohammed or Islam. In the crossfire, Christianity often takes alot of hits- know that it's not personal, just a quest to understand.

free

January 15, 2007
1:39 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Free:

Thanks for the tip. Yes, it unfortunately does. I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs tho. Whose to say who is right and who is wrong. I actually like a little sparring w/ guest as long as he keeps it nice. Guest was one that helped me to stand up and say what I believe in the face of adversity.

🙂

January 15, 2007
7:13 pm
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Hi mama, I'm doing good, very busy. I dont know, reality is what is obvious, I'm talking about our religious beliefs about a religion and choice to ignore certain parts of whats obvious and whats not.

Gosh this was 3 days, and I havent done much. Lets see if I can salvage some hours.

January 15, 2007
7:18 pm
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mama, come onn.

"I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs tho."

Even if my beleif was to be a cannibale and the nastiest belief to be found? Or is the hesitancy to criticize another religion based on the fear of having one's OWN faith syste criticized? Thats another realization I got.

You're saying you wouldnt criticize any belief system, no matter how bad it might be?

January 15, 2007
9:13 pm
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mama,

So its clear that if a belief system was really bad, e.g it encouraged the killing of infant girls to keep the population of females below 35% - then its really bad, correct? It can be criticized then, no?

So my question is: How bad does a belief system have to get before you would criticize it and not feel guilty about it?

January 15, 2007
9:40 pm
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OK OK, Guest my dear, I was not thinking of the way out there wacky stuff. I eat cows; not worship them. I cannot condone the killing of baby girls. So in this case you are right. What I was speaking of is Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Prodestant, etc. This does exclude satanism. So, guest, you stinker, I will say yes. mamaC made a misrepresentation. I was not thinkin weird and wacked. Guess I'd better get back to the game. I've been out awhile. So, if Jesus comes back and takes the cows home I will concede and spend my time in hell, but until then Jesus will remain my rock and my salvation.

January 15, 2007
10:27 pm
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If you agree Satanism has elements that allow it to be criticized, why not any other religion?

Why are people so much afraid to criticize religion? Whats the taboo? I dont see any.

Anyway I didnt mean to debate anything but I had to point it out.

January 16, 2007
4:31 am
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Yes, you did point it out and I think it good you did. I'd not really thought of it I spoze. The don't judge thing, but yes there are varying degrees. Someone might live next to an abuser of his family but if a pedofile moved in next door the whole neighborhood would rise up. In most places. We allow drug dealers out of jail to sell to our kids and kill them, but a murderer is kept on death row for us to support. So, I spoze to live next to a catholic, jew, methodist, baptist would be ok coz the belief is all centered around one God. But the cows, satanics, noodles and such are not even viewed in a safe realm. Good points Guest. But then nobody ever said mamaC was unbiased, just "try" not to be judgmental of others. But then yes I can be and thats ok too.

January 16, 2007
9:31 am
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Whats unsafe about two gods? Why is one god safe. Hmm.

Two God's is safer infact. For example if there's a fire in heaven and one God has gone to the restroom, the other God can still take care of it. Redundancy plans. Having just one God is thus dangerous actually.

Ok but really. I dont know much about Satanism though.

January 16, 2007
3:53 pm
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LOL

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