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The Pope Visits US - and most swoon
April 24, 2008
12:22 pm
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red blonde
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And actually.....I have been baptised three times.

April 24, 2008
1:06 pm
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eve
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I didn't like this guy when he (and I) was much younger, as a German bishop, working hard against birth control and women's right to have an abortion. I don't much like him as a pope either, but he got less radical with the years.
Guest: the accent is a heavy Bavarian-German-English 🙂

April 24, 2008
2:09 pm
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bevdee
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JV

I'm glad you had your coffee! I'm a mess without my caffeine.

We cool.

April 24, 2008
2:24 pm
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truthBtold
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WOW!!!!

I have been off the site for a couple of days and was surprised to come here today to see over 70 responses.

My experience has been that I was baptized Catholic, had my First Communion - but when it got time for me to get my Confirmation, I told my mother that it just didn't feel right in my guts....and she respected that decision.

When I got married (have only been married once) my husband was Catholic also and we looked into getting married in a Catholic church.

We went to see the priest and I was really upset that instead of addressing some of the topics of personal spirituality and beliefs in general for 2 people....rather it was very political.

Niether of us had ever been married before, but he didn't believe us and wanted us to sign papers so that he could research it to prove as such.

Then the only other thing he pressed for was to make sure that if we ever had any children, that we promised to raise them Catholic and that there was a $100.00 charge for pre-marital counseling - which we could go ahead and pay today.

Needless to say, we didn't get married in a fancy Catholic church.

I guess the thing that really triggered me about my initial thread was the fact of placing someone whom is called "father" so high on a pedestal as perhaps this has ramifications stemming from own father....and how my own mother minimized the fact of what my father did to his daughters.

In effect, placing him on a pedestal.

And as children, in general, our parents are just naturally placed on a pedestal.

In hindsight, I now know that that is probably the case.

JV did bring up some valid issues with regards to the Catholic Church doing good.

I know that the church has been helpful with regards to orphanages etc.. in the past.

I also know that that there ARE some priests who do not abuse either.

I remember once on TV, there was a segment of a priest up north somewhere whom was doing some really good work in the poor sections of town.

Creating programs for dis-advantaged youth and my feeling was that HIS heart was in the right place.

I could just tell in my heart that his intentions were honorable.

So, I guess that it is unfair to (either directly or indirectly assume) initially have a tendency to group all priests as pedophiles anymore than it is to group all teachers as having sex with their students or by saying that all politicians are corrupt.

The thing is to find out how wide-spread it is for these bad apples and to the extent of which others in a position in authority follow along and keep their mouths shut.

Another example is the Enron scandal.

(Thank goodness for the whistle-blower!)

What ALL of these situations have in common - has to do with "Authority Figures."

Priests, teachers, politicians and CEO's and the mis-use of their power.

(Again - hitting a nerve close to home within me as my parents were once "authority figures" and mis-used their power.)

But, I think that this dialog is good.

It exposes where change needs to be made and to indeed feel safe and strong enough to be able to question authority figures.

Feeling a little shook up here as I type as I wasn't expecting to connect these emotional dots within myself....until now....

The power and control of authority figures and the horrific mis-use of that power by some.

tBt

tBt

April 24, 2008
6:26 pm
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free
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I'm not understanding what the anger about the Pope coming to the U.S. is about. For faithful Catholics, that's a very exciting thing. My niece and her cousin put together a welcome video, entered it in a contest and won so it was played for him at the stadium and it was a very huge thing for these young people.

Ya know, the Catholic priesthood hardly owns the corner on the pedophile market. Boy Scouts. Teachers. Counselors. To name a few. Positions of authority and trust is where pedophiles gravitate to as it gives them access.

Wherever there is access to children, there will be pedophiles.

The pedophiles are to blame, nobody else, including a church or any other organization.

I do feel the guilty priests should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law as any other citizen would be.

Have they been?

free

April 24, 2008
7:39 pm
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thanks eve 🙂

lol. Wow i would never have known. I will remember Bavarian and german though. If I want to know what type of accent someone has, how do I find out? I come ask you :d or is there any alternate way? I love different accents (maybe because i got one of my own, oops).

JV

its ok, thanks for apologizing. Its ok even if you hadnt apologized. Religion is a sensitive topic, emotions fly on both sides all the time. Here's where I come from JV and maybe then you'll know why I feel strongly against religion: I beleived in one with all my heart (yes, true) but found out that it was a farce and infact a harmful bad farce, not even just a farce. I wont go into details but thats why I feel strongly about religion.

I know you feel strongly about it in a positive way so yea, we're sitting on opposite ends but thats ok.

Everyone else is nice here, I'm the only one so far that isnt so nice when talking about religion. Maybe I should be umm but you know, I've been there. I dont hold back anything and just say it. I dont like having to restrain myself only because somoene else will be offended unless they're my boss :d. Maybe I'm bad huh, its possible.

Any way, no hard feelings on my side. I dont discuss religion here a lot now anyway, but feel free to ignore me if I say anything next time if it doesnt look good to you. I know i can be pretty blunt or "not so nice" as i could be.

April 24, 2008
10:41 pm
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MsGuided
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My post wasn't about bashing the church as a whole, but was pointing out what can happen when absolute power isn't tempered with justice, and isn't monitered by an outside body/councel to oversee cases of corruption.The lack of action towards corruption is what erodes peoples faith and trust.

I can honestly say I see the GOOD of religeon in individuals. Some of these individuals I have in my life and i have a deep appreciation and respect for them.

It doesn't matter what religeon a person is, but who they are and how they conduct themselves.

Once it manifests into figures of authority, I become sceptical.

Although I am not a cristian, I do believe that the quality of humility, and the rejection of excessive material wealth is perhaps the purest form of spiritual love.

April 25, 2008
12:45 am
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truthBtold
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MsGuided,

Last paragraph:

You said (in part) that you believe in the quality of humility.

Gurlfriend......I SO know where you are going with this.

(Not many - I suspect - truly embrace this....at first...)

For me - humility...not to EVER be confused with "humiliation" really - to my mind, keeps my little butt "in check." - you know?

Case in point: Someone out of the blue walks up to me and compliments me on something. I dunno. My clothes, my personal, intellectual take on something on world affairs, my choice in deli meat for example....you name it!!!!

Initially - with a natural "inbred" reaction as to pooh-pooh the sincere compliment and just "sluff it off" and think nothing more of it...etc....eventually - I had to realize - that maybe....just maybe....this one person complimenting me right now might just well have a very valid point!

Herein steps in the lessons of Humility 101.

To not be so "arrogant" as to not suppose that others REALLY DO have a sincere compliment to share!

You know?

Afterall....who am I to argue?

Yep. Slice me a piece of humble pie...and by the way - throw a little scoop of vanilla ice cream on the top!!!!

So true.

MsGuided,

Your second thought. The "Rejection of excessive material wealth."

Another biggie - in my book.

I just try and "suppose" somtimes - in my dreams - that I have - at my fingertips - all the wealth that my little ole heart could desire....what then?

Sure and damn skippy - you better believe that I wish for a place on a tropical beach somewhere....clear, blue oceans - but NOT at the espense of employees working at barely a liveable, minimum wage.

Would not nor could not be able to sleep at night.

Gotta be some kind of balance here.

Other than that - I vie for my own dreams in the interim....thank you very much!!!!

Makes me wonder.

Herein is the culprit.

To wonder. To dream.

But how CAN I really - with the plight of so many on these tropical islands living and breathing an existance tinkering on the margins of the "have nots?"

Could I really do THIS with a clear conscience?

Jury is still out on that one.

No solid answers.

I dunno.

Truly - I just don't know.

Kind of interesting to contemplate - though.

Then again - I wonder.

Being an American nowadays.

USED TO - carry some real weight.

Nowdays - not quite so sure.

And isn't THAT the ultimate "Wake-UP" call???????

To know and sense that we as (Americans) just no longer carry the "weight and status" that we once enjoyed?

That the naturally assumed "priviledged society" may no longer BE the case anymore????

Personally - quite the SHOCK!!!!!!!
In retrospect, it's just pretty darn amazing how we (Americans) were able to really screw up the whole US country in just a matter of only a few couple hundred years when other "native" tribes were able to co-exist for many of hundreds of years?????

I guess, in retrosepct - we pretty much just raped the land.

We "cashed in" the long-term family jewels for just a night on the town - sort of speak.

Amazing how it only took just a couple of hundred years.

What were we thinking?

Yee-Ha. Hay Day!

Strip what we can from our natural resources with nary a thought as to the future.

In essence, as I heard it once said....the Americans of this day and age traded in the "family jewels" for just a night on the town.

Boy - do I ever hate that those words continue to haunt me at night.

Can't shake it off.

Sense - on some deep level - that it is most probably true.............

What a shame.

What a DAMN shame..............

Feeling a little dis-connected right now - even in view of the massive cell-phones etc.....

Pretty darn fricking shallow!!!!!

(Just shake my head in disbelief.)

So sad.

So UTTERLY and truly sad.

April 25, 2008
8:20 pm
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MsGuided
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Hi tbt!

You did add more to what I meant in that last comment.
also have had problems accepting compliments.

But the general theme is excess!

Excess and wealth. Anyone who has it must be a good steward.

How is it obtained? Who's hard work is utilized to put a person in a place of wealth? When a person is armed with wealth does this really give them license, or specific knowledge above others?

What laws of nature are being forfieted for this wealth?

Since this thread was about the Pope, that last sentence i wrote was related to the wealth and posturing of the Pope, and his associates in the higher echilons of the catholic Church.

Something in my gut tells me his elevated status and the symbolism that surrounds him is a hoax.

Sure some of the principals he embodies are worthwhile, but the packaging makes me uneasy.

I don't think a true spiritual leader should flaunt such grandure. It's all man made and really doesn't reflect any deep sense of god.

I really believe that if women were given as much voice in religeous matters, the world would be a better place.If women had equal representation in government the world would be a softer more peaceful place. I mean women in high positions. For every male , there should be a female equivalent.

It would restore balance, humility, generosity and respect for the planet.

I don't care of poeple think I'm crazy or off base here. And i certainly won't go into great detail about my beliefs.

In the deepest part of my soul this religeon just doesn't speak to me on a spiritual level.

The Dahli Lama impresses me more.

I can SO relate to your view on american decadence ( that's what it is: pure waste, and lack of forsight)

We have lost our way.

That's all i can manage. I'm just exhausted tonight! But I thought I would at least answer.

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