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The Olive branch?
November 19, 2004
9:49 am
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Cactus
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Hi Twink,
Thank you for responding.

In regards to making the inside joke comment to Workin regarding my "facility with the ladies" I find that remark uncalled for, innappropriate and offensive. The first time you made a similar type of remark (I can't produce it because that thread was deleted by the S C) I disregarded it because it wasn't that important but when you blatantly are making "jokes" as you put them at my expense (I'm not laughing) and on another participants thread dealing with a delicate issue I don't find that helpful, supportive or in line with the site guidelines.

I don't believe I've ever done anything to anyone at this site that belittled them or their issue, on the contrary I have tried my best to be as open minded, supportive and nuturing as possible and I believe I've succeded. Even when I am providing feedback that I deem harsh I preface it with validation of the persons feelings as evident by my response below:

"He definitely had no right to tell you to F-off that was uncalled for but for a person to get to that stage there had to be something that happened to make him feel this was his only recourse. What was it? I hope this makes sense. I just don't want to arbitrarily label this guy as a rogue before I have all the facts".

Contrary to your comment I did ask for clarification. Maybe I didn't ask for it in the manner you would have chosen to do so but that's what makes us unique. I'm not you.

For arguments (actually peace) sake I am willing to admit that maybe I should have left that comment out but that's just the counselor in me seeking to gain understanding. But being that this response was addressed to Seanymph and to date I don't feel that I offended her. (or at least it doesn't appear that I have). What is your real issue?

You are very correct there are people out there who are just abusive people but I can't label someone that arbitrarily with out having all the facts just because everyone else is doing it. Seanymph was so kind to provide a more detailed account of the events and based on that I agreed with everyone elses assessment. Just because I don't immediately jump on the band wagon doesn't mean that my perceptions and concerns aren't valid their just different. I think what you may fail to realize is that I am a man and we do think and react differently but I'm also professionally trained as a therapist. Does that make me wrong or bad?

Your last "High Horse" comment while I feel is a personal attack on me I'm willing to overlook because I don't feel that it is true of me and what use would it serve to argue about it. You are entitled to your opinion. I to am willing to agree to disagree and if you desire I will refrain from engaging you again on this site.

It seems to me that I've triggered something in you by my very being and if you choose to share with me I'm more than wiling to listen and hopefully maybe we can work this out. I've read some of your responses on other threads and like your style so it'd be ashame to avoid each other. Again I'm extending the olive branch try not to hit me with it this time (just a joke).

-Cactus

November 19, 2004
11:23 am
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Cactus
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Hey Twinks,
Is that what this is all about? While I am a trained therapist by profession I no longer engage in the practice in my personal or professional life. I am an assistant administrator of a municipalitie's Homeless Programs Unit now. In telling you this I am trying to make you aware that I don't perform counseling in a professional capacity anymore and my interactions with people on this site is as a participant (co-dependent) and hopefully a friend.

I didn't feel I needed to wear my "professional hat" here and be subjected to such restrictions. I guess sharing that I was a therapist may not have been a smart thing for me to to do if I'm going to be held to a different standard then everyone else. I don't "work" with these people I thought they were just my friends. (but this is food for thought)

Women on this site refer to others (male and female) as honey, sweetie, babe and such and I've never heard of anyone becoming offended. Is it because I'm "male" and I use these terms that offends you? I don't mean anything by it and I'm sorry you feel it is partronizing. I don't believe I've ever referrd to you in those terms and now that I know you find that offensive I wont. But the people I converse with didn't seem to find it offensive (just my take).

But now that you mention it I will discontinue the use of such terms because if you find it offensive someone else may also but are just not sharing with me. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

On my last post I mentioned 2 issues that you have failed to address:

1. Making jokes on others threads with another participant at my expense and..

2. Advising me to "get off my high horse" (sidebar: If I was all that and knew everything why am I at this site anyway?)

While I have addressed and hopefully resolved your concerns I hope you would afford me the same courtesy.

Have a great day Twinks

-Cactus

November 19, 2004
1:10 pm
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Hey Twink,

I feel as if I'm trying way too hard to make concessions to make things right (as evident in the level of detail I give in my responses) with you while you are satisfied in providing "cryptic responses" hoping I'm invested and smart enough to figure things out.

Most men are satisfied with the cryptic responses and hope you (as a female) figure things out I am not like that I will ask for clarification but if the person chooses not to respond where I can fully understand them then I have no choice but to reluctantly terminate my involvement with them in order to not make matters worse. Is that what you want? Please advise.

"I said I was serious Cactus, not joking" when this was provided in your response I asked for clarification because I didn't know what you were referring to, and this is your answer. I guess I'm just dense cause I still don't get why you think this is an adaquate response. I'm also still curious why you felt it was appropriate to make a joke at my expense with another participant on someone elses thread?.

In response to whether I take myself serious or not. If I didn't then who else would. Is what we discuss on this site of a humorous nature (sometimes it is) mostly I think not. And yes I have a certain way I carry myself and my sentence structure can be clinical at times (not meaning to come off that way, and that's something I need to work on I guess I tried to change that by attempting to be personable with people i.e babe, little one etc, etc) but does that negate my contribution to the cause because you don't like how I phrase a sentence?

I can take almost anything anyone can dish out and come back with a well-thought out response but I'm a little offended that you've chosen to judge me so harshly before you've even gotten to know me. I'm not that bad, I'm actually a very nice person.

If you wish to discontinue this dialogue please just let me know. Even though I'm beginning to get the feeling that you don't like me or what I represent I have absolutely no animosity towards you whatsoever on the contrary I actually am enjoying this exchange (in a weird sorta way). Let me know what you think. Hope the rest of your day is going good. The branch has still got a few leaves left on it but It's getting sparse.

-Cactus

November 19, 2004
4:25 pm
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workinonit
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Cactus,

I feel the need to interject here. If I may be candid, I hope no offense will be taken. Like you said, I am relaying my feelings and that's what this board is for.

I too, feel the patronizing tone in your responses. The trouble with this is, you would not speak to a man in quite the same way. Is this nit picking? Maybe to you but, you are not a codependent woman.

I said to you at one point that you had quite a harem. This was funny to me but also disturbing. You seem to have a certain charm that, is Svengali-like. Are you aware of this on any level and do you realize the harm this can do to a person ( I'll refrain from singling out the gender)?

Some of us have lived with men who were charmers but also very manipulative. So this is some of the reason behind the red flag. I do not have to explain this to you but my hope is that we can all understand each other better and move on with a compassionate tone.

I will let you know when I feel patronized.

Please do not feel I am judging here. That is not my intent. I have a right to leave a thread that makes me feel uncomfortable but, I also have the right to respond and so do you.

November 19, 2004
5:43 pm
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Twinks,
I'm beginning to feel like I'm being held personally responsible as the spokesman for the male population and for some injustice a man has done to you.

Whether you're man or women I speak exactly the same way gender has no bearing other than me being mindful to be very clear in my responses because this is a "co-dependent" site and I want to be concise and straight forward with my responses. I'm at a loss to see where that is patronizing but you are more than entitled to your opinion. As far as this striking a nerve with you being a codependent woman that (which you have made me aware of) was not my intention. Twinks not everyone reacts the way you do.

Thank you for bringing up the "harem" comment that was the one that was deleted in the Libs Thread. I'm glad you find that amusing, I on the other hand did not and then when you made a joke of it quite obviously negating my feeling that was very offensive and hurtful. It's amazing to me that you couldn't even acknowledge my concern. Oh well.

You've dissected my intentions towards other people (none of my responses were directed towards you) without provocation and then assigned them labels (svengali-like, charmer, manipulative and red-flagger) and then made reference that I could cause harm to people.

I've not once attacked you or your character but you've seen fit to do this throughout this dialogue. Twinks you win. Uncle, uncle, uncle.

I'm sorry we couldn't come to some better understanding of one another I would have liked to have gotten to know you better I'm sure the dialogue between us would have been lively and fun. I do hope when you come across my posts or my responses on this site you can be civil with me and I will afford you the same courtesy. I don't know how this turned out so badly I truly wish we could've started over fresh.

Have a great and safe weekend Twinks.

-Cactus

November 19, 2004
6:44 pm
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CAMER
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now can I interject........Hey Cactus...You are a great guy, its all good on what you say!!!! I think you are a smart, wise man and tell people like it is from your viewpoint, and that is your choice. I don't feel offended in anyway by what you say....keep calling me "baby" no harm done. Have a great weekend!!!

November 19, 2004
8:42 pm
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Cactus.

Hello, bro ... Nice to see that there is at least one other guy besides me here.

Why do you think that male posters are in the small minority on this site??

Perhaps males feel uncomfortable with erupting emotions from either gender?

What d'yer reckon?

November 19, 2004
11:38 pm
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workinonit
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Yo Tez, low blow there.

Well Twinks, we look a bit alike.

Cactus, you see, this is why I didn't want to post but I needed to state my thoughts. Maybe my thoughts are wrong in your mind. That's ok with me.

Cactus, I am the one who said 'harem' but I was not trying to be mean. I thought it was funny. Sorry! I never knew you were upset about that comment as I didn't post for awhile.

As far as I am concerned, there are many people who relate to you. Ok there is not a thing wrong with that!! I have issues of my own that keep me from enjoying the type of interaction you engage in. I am not going to apologise for my feelings but I wish you would accept them for what they are...my feelings ( not Twinks) We all grow in different ways and my path is going in another direction than this.

November 22, 2004
9:26 am
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Good Morning,
Twinks,
I need to apoligize to you I never bothered looking at the nickname to notice it was "workinonit" instead of you who was posting to me. I was more concerned with addressing the concerns and didn't pay attention to the person posting. Sorry my bad.

I have made adjustments in my behavior to foster an atmoshpere of civility and respect with the ultimate goal of maintaining a friendship with you but you have still never even attempted to address my concern about making jokes at my expense. The best and sometimes hardest two words to utter in the English language is "I'm sorry". What would it have hurt just to acknowledge that I (even though I am not a women) have feelings and they get hurt also. I thought the idea of this site was to work on ourselves, support others and not necassarily look for faults in others or belittle them. Just my thoughts

Workinonit,
I never found you remark about "my harem" that offensive (there was no need to apoligize) but with the fact that we are posting on a co-dependent website I am cognizant that it would only be a matter of time before some one (in this instance Twinks) would chime in with some derogatory (cryptic) statement based on your remark. I never responded to your original remark I just blew it off I only responded to Twinks response when it was apparent that she was "pushing" the situation by virtue of her additional comment along those lines. I accept your feeling (your perception is your reality) for what they are I just feel as though I'm beening held accountable for something someone else did to you. My perception being my reality.

Let me reiterate to both of you I am aware that people come into this site somewhat bruised and battered but I am not the spokesperson for the male population (just because I'm one of the few men who post) and I should not be held up to that type of accountability. I have a hard enough time speaking for myself much less a whole gender. I understand some "guy" probably did some really mean things to both of you but blaming every man for something someone else did to you isn't fair. Contrary to popular belief we all are not "A**holes". The terms babe, honey, etc, etc while condescending to you two are meerly terms of endearment nothing else. I will though refrain from using these terms in the future out of respect for anyone else who might deem them offensive. No disrespect or patronization was intended.

I applaud both of you for taking the initiatives to voice your opinions although I belive you two had other axes to grind (unfortunately in my head) that didn't necassarily have to do with me I just happened to be the catalyst for some unresloved issues.

It is not my intention to be adversarial with either one of you, on the contrary even though you may find it difficult to fathom that I'm a genuinely nice caring person and that I have a way of conversing with people (most people) that puts them at ease and gets them to open up to me that doesn't make me bad. Being that I was a therapist in a former life I was trained to elicit information from clients in a non-threatening, therepeutic manner and unfortunately it's sometimes hard to break that habit. I will endure to work on that part of my character.

Well the branch is still out there and a few leaves are still hanging tough I hope you two grab a handful and we can put this stuff behind us and get on with living.

-Cactus

November 22, 2004
1:50 pm
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Cactus, there are no problems for me. I do intend to be more careful with my own interactions here. For many reasons.

Yes, of course I have been hurt by a man, no, two men. Both of which were self consumed energy suckers. I have never allowed myself the freedom of expressing myself. I'm doing so now and refuse to apologise to any one for my feelings. Don't get me wrong, I will not purposely confront or hurt someone and will take responibility if I do but, the days of being a doormat are over. I'd rather be alone because doormats take it rough.

You see, I feel when I finally took my power back, took responsibility for my own actions in hand, I began to see me and decided I liked who I was. Why not? My first ex told me I was a bad judge of character. Oh he wasn't though. Hugely narcissistic!! The stories are numerous but tedious. Not worth the going back to, only going forward from here.

So cactus, though I might have had an issue with your way of dealing with others here, it was not mine to address it was theirs. If they did not have an issue, then it was not my business. I will and do take care of myself. There is no other space to come from.

November 22, 2004
2:21 pm
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Uhhhh time to rip that tree out of the ground and ya'll plant another one. With all the branches that have broken off... I'm thinking it's hanging on by one weak root! I love you all... plant a new tree.

November 22, 2004
3:05 pm
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Hey Cristine, consider it planted!!!

Miss you by the way.........

November 22, 2004
3:17 pm
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Done

November 23, 2004
3:11 am
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That was very well written Cactus. I can tell that it came from your heart.

November 23, 2004
8:51 am
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Hi Amanda,
Thanks for the acknowledgement, sometimes all a person needs is to be heard. Things should have never been about right or wrong just a measurement of understanding.

You're a sweet heart (please don't take offense it was just my way of recognizing your kindness in the most sincere way I can).

-Cactus

November 23, 2004
9:28 am
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I miss all of you too, workin... I have been going through a lot this weekend, and just needed to do some things I KNEW you'd all tell me I was CRAZY to do (my friend Cactus would have been first in line! And I would have loved him for it!), because I was telling MYSELF I was crazy! And, now that it's done, I'll need all of your support in the coming hours, days, weeks, months and perhaps years! (I'm not deluding myself that I'll be better after I drink a Tang or anything!).

I felt just like a kid whose parents were fighting and I couldn't do anything but watch, when I came to this tread. It made me sad. I look forward so much to talking to ALL of you, and value all of your opinions so much, that it hurts to see that even here communication isn't always supportive or clear cut and without misunderstanding. I come from a family where we would yell, use a lot of arm and hand gestures to express ourselves, get loud, etc... (I did mention I was Italian, right?), but we didn't take it too personally at those times because we knew it was expression, not insult. I guess that is why I don't take other people's expression of opinion personally, unless I KNOW it's a direct attack on me. I'm glad that everything seems resolved here. And, I can't wait to see that tree blossom and grow!

November 23, 2004
10:46 am
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Hi Christine,
I've been keeping up with your thread regarding the "hand kissing gesture". He really is a piece of work isn't he. I'm always here for you and I hope you know that.

I apoligize if my comments brought up some old family of origin issues I blame myself for not just cutting this thing off earlier but some of my old co-dependency issues kicked in whereby I felt it was my sworn duty to try and get someone to at least acknowledge my feeling and remaing cordial but I guess again to no avail. Some habits die hard.

I'm a little beat up right now but I'll be fine.

-Cactus

November 23, 2004
11:43 am
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Piece of work is a very nice way of putting it, Cactus! :o) HAHAHA

I think we are all here for each other, but sometimes we take things personally... and most of the time when we do, it isn't because of what was SAID necessarily, as it is past issues and feelings that were brought up by what was said. I've seen that lately. It's too bad. I'm not choosing anyone's side at all. I love all of you, so I'll just sit back and watch.

I know you are there for me. I can agree with people here, and not agree with people here. But, I've learned not to take things too personally.

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