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The anatomy of attraction?
March 7, 2005
1:09 pm
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Cici
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I know a lot of people are going through withdrawals regarding their ex's. I successfully completed the "Plan for No Contact" and have moved on to greener pastures.

Still a little salty from my old wounds, but all in all I kind of like the scariness of dating again and the excitement of getting to know someone who doesn't know all your faults, and whose faults you don't know.

What is the anatomy of attraction? Is the foundational support the physical, or the mental? Or an intricate webwork of interaction between the two? I notice with some, there is a visceral response. I talk to someone I am attracted to and I feel it, in my gut, in my loins, the rhythmic contraction, the...uh....first moments when my body starts to "ready" itself for sexual interaction....haha...just from talking to someone...

And you know it right away, you are aware of the chemistry from the beginning, even if the initial interactions are awkward and stilted.

How much does the body need a seduction? And how much of that seduction is completely mental?

I notice that I eat less when I am first attracted to someone. It's like we get so high, being around each other, that we are almost coked up. We neither of us want to eat. We just spend hours locked in a very sensual embrace. But he says, I don't want to climax, just yet, I would rather lay here in various states of undress, I would rather feel this feeling of complete anticipation and excitement. I feel closer to you now in the way that we are together than I do after I have an orgasm.

I am shocked to hear a man say such a thing. I thought men accessed intimacy through physicality. And I hear the exact opposite from this man.

To other people he would be funny, dorky, maybe to some his awkward ways would be unattractive, but to me, I love to look at a person, any person, who is striking - at one angle completely unattractive, and at another - completely irrestistible.

My day is consumed with random thoughts, not just sexual, but romantic, intellectually stimulating. I see a TV show and I want to laugh about it with him.

I like the first part, when you first know you are attracted to someone. As the weeks go by, you learn more about them, your opinion starts to change, the mystique disappears.

It's nice to sit by the pond and dangle your feet in the water until the sun sets. Sometimes the sunset takes longer. Sometimes it is a shorter process.

March 8, 2005
1:32 pm
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Cici
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Yeah I hear ya twinks. Luckily he is leaving in 9 months to go back home after he finishes his Master's degree, so it's a terminal relationship. I wouldn't leave my family at this point in my life, and GOD knows I wouldn't move to upstate NY if my life depended on it (HAH).

I think I need a dork right now because....he is the opposite of what I usually go for. He doesn't remind me of my ex(s). He isn't a complete jerk wad (yet). Ah well, like I said, I am dangling my feet in the pond until the sun sets.

March 8, 2005
3:19 pm
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Cici
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The gypsies say, perfection is death.

March 9, 2005
4:23 am
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EThooom
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Thanks Cici

I need as much information and feedback about women or woman that I can get. Let me explain.

At 14 I moved near a town 10 miles away. I went away to a military high school. Basicly I had very little experience with dating and that continued thru to today.

For me it has been running into a gal where I live or at work and it starts. I have never "dated"
in the sense of seeing more than one woman at a time. Thus there were
substancial gaps when I was not involved with anyone.

Were I live now, dating is necessary in my circumstances. I am not in a place where woman can get to know me
as a natural part of their day - like living in the same apt. complex or
work.

I have no idea about the anatomy of attraction from a woman's point of view. Nor what information she wants.
I sometimes get this feeling she wants
me to read her mind and unless I can do it she concludes it won't work.

What unasked questions do women having in the begining that I should answer ? What is a woman's purpose when she asks an off the wall, what if question that really has no answer
really - one that depends on the circumstances. What is a woman paying attention to during our 1st conversation.

Help ! Thanks

March 9, 2005
8:00 am
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SweetAmanda
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I like to try and be as honest as possible. No games, you know? I guess to a guy that just isn’t sexy.

March 9, 2005
8:46 am
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Cici
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I dunno, Amanda. When I basically told my new crush that it wouldn't work he said repeatedly that he was shocked and attracted to my openness, that he wanted to be able to open up, too, but it was beyond him.

ET - every lady is different. Some like their toes tickled, some will kick you in the face if you get near their feet (hahaha).

The best way I can describe it is - a man who knows how to seduce can play my body like an instrument. He can make it make any sounds he wants, and string my strings loosely or tightly....but a man who doesn't know how to play, will fumble around all over looking for the melody.

March 10, 2005
3:10 pm
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Juanita
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Attraction is a wonderful, and wicked, thing.

It is wonderful when it is mutual. Oh, the highs you can hit!

When it is one sided, Oh, the loneliness, sadness, and utter loss you feel.

When your insides react, and your gut seizes up, your heart constricts, skip a breathe when you look upon them, your body reacts physically, heatedly... pure Heaven at the moment.

Why is it that chemistry can't be mutual? Why must it leave one so beferet sometimes? Doesn't seem fair that fate deems our entire bodies and yes, souls, react to someone who has no desire for us....

March 11, 2005
10:11 am
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Cici
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My problem hasn't been unrequited love for some time now - I get the feelings returned to me but all screwed up.

Like, I have had a crush on a friend of mine for months, now, but I wouldn't ever act on it because i know after we actually started having sex it would be great for a few weeks and then it would get weird. It always gets weird with me.

My friend tells me that everyone laments ever being able to be in a romantic relationship, but ya know what - I don't know that I can. I think I really AM too f*cked up in the head to inflict myself on anyone that I really really cared about.

March 11, 2005
10:56 am
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gazelle
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Hi Cici.
1) What sort of "weird"?????

2) Stop saying & thinking thing like "inflict myself"!

It's out of order! Cici deserves way more respect than that, so you treat her right - ok?! πŸ˜‰

Love, gazelle.

March 11, 2005
11:54 am
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Cici
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aw, you are a sweetheart, gazelle!

"Weird" - like, I dunno. I get weird with people I have feelings for. Like if we have sex I can't really cuddle up to them afterwards - I have to roll away and get up and put my clothes on and do stuff. Maybe to distract myself??

And men will always say they are not only "Cool" with that - but that they LIKE it, but they do passive aggressive things like get all pissy or whatever just because you do something they don't like, but think they SHOULD like.

Or the whole trying to act cool thing. I dunno - I start having sex with them and I don't know how to act any more. I am so used to being in a LTR and sex is just something that you DO, ya know, to feel good, to get off, whatever....

I have never really access intimacy through sex, though. I don't know that I have ever really honestly let anyone IN. I think that's why I say "inflict myself" - because honestly, there's no equity in the relationship. Guy gets attached to Cici, Cici emotionally withdraws but goes through the motions of being intimate, and guy gets fed up with dating half of a person.

I feel close to my exH because we have spent the last 2 years talking on the phone and writing letters....I don't know....when I am around someone I really like, I pick at them inside my head until they are nothing but their component parts....and then they stop making any sense and I forget why I am attracted to them!!!

March 12, 2005
9:06 am
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gazelle
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Oh ... thanks for explaining. Although I can't say I understand entirely, it is giving me some insight into how different people function. So, I'm listening and trying to learn. I hope writing about how you 'work' to strangers helps you too, to gain more clarity.

[I'm the opposite. I cannot 'do sex' without Making Love ... & so have been miserably celibate & lonely for most of my life. I'm too idealistic. Few situations are ever perfect enough for me. A deep mental & EMOTIONAL intimacy has to come first before I can express it sexually. Tragically for me, it seems that for many men the sex comes first, & then, once they feel wanted & accepted physically, & get the powerful emotional / hormone-rush, they can start to open up emotionlly. But I'm the other way round:( ]

May I ask a bit more to understand? Have you ever felt you were Making Love?
How DO you access intimacy, if not through sex?

Also, it seems that men are attracted to you & get attached to you easily. Why doesn't this give you self-esteem and make you happy, I wonder? Do you fear they will leave you once you give them your heart? Or do you enjoy 'the thrill of the chase' more than the ongoing relationship? Do men lose their charm & mystique for you once you have 'conquered' or 'bagged' them?

I still wish you wouldn't feel or think of yourself as an infliction though. I think I'm beginning to see what you mean - have I got this right? That you don't feel capable of becoming attached & intimate back as intensely or wholeheartedly as you believe they want? So you feel you'll short-change and disappoint them? So you get out before you start feeling 'unworthy' or guilty? Or do you just get bored after sex?

Apologies if I'm wrong. But Id say stop putting yourself under so much pressure to feel or act in a certain way that you think would be 'right'. Then you'd stop beating yourself up for not being able to live up to self-imposed expectations.
Would you desire intimacy if you could just feel accepted as yourself? If you felt free to just be as you are, authentically?

It's difficult. Hope you find your best way forward that serves you best.
Love to you - gazelle.

March 13, 2005
12:28 pm
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Cici
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May I ask a bit more to understand?

By all means!!! This really helps me, too, so I am partly being selfish.

Have you ever felt you were Making Love? How DO you access intimacy, if not through sex?

I don't think I've ever *really* made love to a person. I was so drunk on my wedding night that I passed out, so....ha ha ha. No, I have f*cked, in many positions, many places, quite a few men - but never really felt close to any of them.

I usually access intimacy through talking, hanging out - that time you spend with a person where you two are alone, cuddling, making out, touching, rubbing them all over, feeling their skin, all that stuff....everything leading up to physical intimacy. After the orgasm, I'm done - I push away and need to be alone, physically. I can cuddle but my mind is ALWAYS elsewhere.

Why doesn't this give you self-esteem and make you happy, I wonder? Do you fear they will leave you once you give them your heart? Or do you enjoy 'the thrill of the chase' more than the ongoing relationship? Do men lose their charm & mystique for you once you have 'conquered' or 'bagged' them?

I have always since I was in my late teens, been attractive to men, for some reason. So the quantity of attention is never an issue....also, my Dad really loves me, and makes it a point to show me almost every day, from phone calls, to dropping off food, to financial help - so I was lucky with that.

To me, I compare all men to my Da and they are lacking. Dad was a great man. He treats me like a princess, spoils me....no man I've been with treated me remotely like that, but maybe my exHusband...but even he couldnt' spoil me as much as Dada did - but older men don't appeal to me because I think they are trying to replace my Dad, and that is NOT happening -- Dad is irreplaceable.

But I DO get out before I start feeling unworthy. I call it "the grossness" - i just start nitpicking and seeing everything bad about that person. And being afraid they see everything bad in me.

It's more like, after sex, I think - what is there to look forward to. I've seen ya naked, I've experienced your (lack of) technique...I am disappointed....what is left? Of course this is because I hold a part of me away from the men, and I refuse to let myself have feelings for them...

Would you desire intimacy if you could just feel accepted as yourself? If you felt free to just be as you are, authentically?

I don't know. A part of me thinks - if I let them see what I really am, they will be disgusted and run away. I have done so many horrible things in my life. I have been a drug addict....I have been divorced and still pretty much am in love with my exhusband, who still loves me desperately, but wants to have a job, car, and his own place before he tries to win me back....

It's weird, I started posting on here back in 1999 before I met my exHusband - and oldies like Molly, and gingerleigh (they don't post any more) remember the development of my relationship, the engagement, the wedding, the loss of my babies....to come full circle, I wonder. I wonder if my exhusband and I after almost 4 years apart, could rebuild?

I dunno. I wish I could let go. I am too contrlling with my own emotions.

March 17, 2005
9:34 am
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Thank you so much for all that confessional insight, Cici. I'm very sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I've been away.
[It was totally horrid. Why do I never 'count'? Why are MY feelings never valid or even allowed? Why does he get cross & shout at me if ever I show ANY genuine emotion - whether soaring happiness, disappointment, sorrow at bereavement, tiredness, or even just fun??? Why does he seem to want love but ignore my normal human needs to share? I don't think I'm too 'needy'- just human & responsive to Life, esp. to him & his kids' needs too. But there's never any acknowledgement forthcoming. Never any response - even when I got a black eye which HURTS! The inner pain of being dismissed till he next wants me, on some unpredictable future whim of his own, with no plans for our next meeting (could be days or weeks away, on his terms) HURTS MORE THAN THE PHYSICAL INJURY! When I texted him about how my bruised head & eye hurts, he completely ignored me. Any admission of pain (even illness) or even of missing him angers him & meets with rude dismissal. When we're apart, he lives for his computer games etc only. I don't seem to even exist in his mind.] HELP!

Sorry for venting. I really needed to. There is no-one here to tell πŸ™

Cici - your feelings, now you've explained a little more, are starting to make more & more sense to me. At first, I thought I was your opposite: passionately engaged with my heart & soul responses besides my bodily ones. Too deeply. Too all-encompassingly. It eats me alive. Yours sounds the better way for survival.

But now, I realise that perhaps I'm more like you than I realised ... or should become so. Could your apparent 'uninvolvement' beyond a certain point be a self-defence mechanism to avoid the extremes of emotional suffering in case of rejection or abandonment? Or at least, of the man's failure to meet your emotional needs compared to your Dad's super-abundance of care & support & nurture? 'Cos that lack counts as a rejection of sorts on a deep level.

My own poor Daddy died 14 years ago, and he was the only one who ever really loved me for MYSELF. [Mum never cared.] And Dad really understood me, with real empathy. So I can relate to that in your life. I envy you still having him alive. I'm so bereft still after 14 achingly lonely years.

Will I (we?) spend the rest of our lives searching in vain for another Perfect Daddy?
How on earth to move on?

Now I have had to lower my expectations so much in my lonely desperation that I'm now in a one-way relationship where I give & pour out from my whole heart & soul SO much, hoping against hope to be found worthy.

But to someone who is incapable of even common courtesy & consideration. How pathetic I've become! I swallow my feelings ... cut them off ... cry in the loo, and then retreat inside like you describe. But I am aching for reciprocity. And I glean any occasional crumbs of comfort he throws greedily. Though never any compliments. Never the "Love"-word. I try to hide how abject I've become. Sad & pathetic.

Is there any hope, I wonder?

Sorry to digress about myself on your thread, Cici. Reading you has helped me lots. Thank you.

All I can give back is a blessing for strength, for holding onto Who We Really Are inside and long to express.

Oh, may we find the right caring, insightful people to bring out the best in us - and us in them. To tend & nurture mutually and intimately, while keeping the spark of attraction - of difference & dignity - alive!

Love, gazelle in pain.

March 17, 2005
1:29 pm
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Cici
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Gazelle, I feel for you. You don't deserve this second class treatment. I was in a restaurant eating dinner with a friend and her mother and niece, and noticed a man eating dinner with his wife - he was on his CELLPHONE the whole time they were eating! She looked disgusted. I was thinking, I would get up, call a cab, and leave. But as they say, there's no accounting for taste...??? or maybe too many of us don't know what we're worth.

Gorgeous women. Who give and love and are giving in bed. Who know how to terat a man right - time after time on these boards especailly I see women like this, allowing themselves to be treated like stray dogs to be kicked to the curb!

Maybe I will be single for the rest of my life...sadly my Da is very ill and is terminally ill with congestive heart failure and COPD, so his mental state isn't all that with it, and I know he will be passing away relatively soon -- within the next few years. I will be devestated, then....maybe my Dad did treat me too good.

Maybe my expectations from relationships are unrealistic. Can you really expect one person to fulfill all your emotional and social needs for the rest of your life, to keep pace with the changes you go through, and the emotional, intellectual, and psychological growth that you experience?

March 17, 2005
6:51 pm
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No - realistically. But ye gods, how we WANT that! If only aspirational hopes could somehow bring what we, as fully engaged human beings, long for and need.

It's so sad to have to give up on our life's dreams ... and mine were not just selfish, but rather always to GIVE as much, or even more, than now seems possible to have accepted & appreciated πŸ™

I'm so very sorry to hear about your poor Dad, Cici. Having lived through a similar situation years ago, my heart constricts with recognition of the pain you're going through. I hope your Mum or other family members are around to help, physically & emotionally. [My Mum had left Dad 20 years before, & refused to visit him even once.]

Lots of supportive blessings to you.

Yes - sigh - we all DO deserve far more than the meagre crumbs we get. Why can't men live as open-heartedly and responsively as we do? Life would be so much richer and happier.

Is it ok to hold on to our life-enhancing dreams of reciprocal love? If we don't put any specific expectations onto anyone?
To do so might sound over-romantic & doomed to disappointment ... but NOT to is like selling ourselves short and deadening our very spirits.

I hate being used - being treated like a feelingless doormat. There's so much more potential to me than that. How I long to feel free to become better & become of some worth and shine!

But how to think? Hope? Love?

Love, gazelle.

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