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Tez-I have more weird questions
February 22, 2007
6:49 pm
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bevdee
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Tez,

How have you been?

I have been thinking about your post for quite a while.

"Lurking deep in your psyche is the terrible fear that your above self-image is the real you and that no man or woman could really love you if they really saw 'that' real you. So a front, a phoney 'you' had(has) to be constructed and maintained at all costs." Yes.

This much is true - "And deep down you greatly fear that you might still like it if it happened again." I probably would if I were drunk. So I won't allow those thoughts. Seriously. I have too much else to think about now. I can't see it ever happening. And this is all I can admit right now. If there is more, it will have to come later. I suppose this is a self-defense or preservation mechanism.

But I just had an interesting thought. Where you said this was my first sexual imprinting? OK- it was and I wonder if I might like it anyway. Even if it had not been my first imprint? It's really hard to say, because of the society and mores I was brought up in.

(You know, here is an interesting aside - most men I know fantasize about and want threesomes. An old boyfriend, not a bad guy, just a real hedonist, always used to tell me he wanted a threesome. One night we were out at a bar, and while he was playing pool, a man came over and asked me to dance. While we were dancing, my man came back and was watching us. He said nothing, he wasn't a particularly jealous man. A little later, I snuggled up to him and whispered in his ear "You said you wanted a threesome, well I think tonight’s your night" He said "really?" I nodded and pointed to the man who I had been dancing with. I told him the guy agreed. He choked on his drink and dragged me out of there - and he never asked me again.)

"Was it that your truth and your reality was not to be trusted? That 'you' were so unacceptable as you were that both the real you and your reality had to be recreated into that which was acceptable to your parents?" Yes - sometimes still. I still wonder at my "reality".

"All the while that little voice is whispering painful verdicts of your unlovability and self-condemnation for being like this."

That voice whispers about this, and many other things. May I ask you a question? How long, how long? Some days are great, and some are not too great. I really have to work at not just mentally whoopin myself..

The other thing I really have a hard time with is this… I can look at my parents and the messages I received as a little girl, and understand why I think about myself the way I do. I do my level best to offset the images. Where I really struggle is not HATING them. Not getting caught up in the resentment. This is something I struggle with everyday.

There is so much to do and think about!!

Also - I saw papers. Divorce papers.

Bevdee

February 23, 2007
8:14 pm
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Hi BevDee.

Great post!!! Plenty of thought provoking stuff. I'll concentrate only on what 'grabbed' me most at this point in time.

Be warned! Some of this may push your buttons. That is NOT my intention.

You wrote:

"But I just had an interesting thought. Where you said this was my first sexual imprinting? OK- it was and I wonder if I might like it anyway. Even if it had not been my first imprint? It's really hard to say, because of the society and mores I was brought up in."

In particular the phrase "I wonder if I might like it anyway" stood out.

My take is this:

Everything in this world without exception has a cause. Nothing just happens without both a cause and a favorable condition. Certainly, inherited 'nature' plays a role in setting up the conditions if not the causes. But 'nurture' or 'lack of' also plays a role.

Our physiology is such that titilation of our sexual parts such as the clit, penis head, nipples etc should normally arouse sensations of sexual delight.

But ... our first sexual experience is vital for all subsequent sexual preferences - so I believe.

If you read the research into the pathology of sexual abberations, you will probably find that the first sexual imprinting plays a vital role in fetish formations. I am not suggesting that homosexuality is caused by the first sexual experience being a homosexual one. I'm talking about sexual preferences within the domains of our sexual polarization.

For example, in some research I read years ago, there was a young early pubescent lad playing cowboys and indians with his sister's girlfriends. As he lay on the ground one girl stood on him with her toes on his penis. He got an immediate erection. Noticing this she thought it funny and probably was a little turned on by this, who knows. Anyway she deliberately rubbed and manipulated his hard penis with her foot until he ejaculated. This young guy grew up with a female foot fetish. This is what really turned him on!

In the same research there was an instance where an older woman seduced a 'cherry boy' tantalizing and rubbing the head of his penis with her fur coat collar until he had his first ejaculation. That guy grew up with a fur fetish. There are enumerable variations of sexual preferences probably as many as there are human beings. I don't think that I have ever experienced two women who had exactly the same sexual preferences. Not being homosexual, I can't speak for guys.

This variety in preferences is fine as far as I can see unless the particular sexual preference causes problems in later adult life.

Sometimes these problems are not so obvious. How we are, because it is all we know, can often seem to be the 'norm'. My partner cannot stand being touched on the breasts, vagina, rectum or anywhere that has sexual connotations. Foreplay is very restricted for me as you can imagine. However, fellatio, something many women don't like very much, is a real turn on for her!! Sexual intercourse is the only game in town with her after that. Orgasms are very quick for her IF - and only if - the fellatio takes place first. I am utterly convinced that as a very young child she was sexually molested and hurt by being penetrated by a finger. She never had a hymen in her memory! At the same time as the molestation happened, an emotional memory of fear was laid down in her that was associated with and subsequently retriggered into fear arousal by being touched intimately by a 'finger' and having her nipples carressed by the molester, whoever that was. However, she as a tiny child, wanted to please whoever this molester was, provided it didn't involve pain of course. I think the molester might have been her father. Sucking his penis was both painless and very gratifying for her because it gave her the feeling of great power over her molester and was an effective way of giving him great pleasure with the bonus of pain avoidance. Her earliest sexual encounters in adolesence - not her first obviously - involved fellatio, an act that at first seemed unattractive, but once re-experienced again very quickly re-triggered off the early molestation feelings of pleasure and power.

Now, her strongly preferred sexual intercourse position is on top and in control - the sexual turn on is strongly correlated with feelings of power. Using what I have learnt about my partner, bringing about an orgasm in her is fairly quick and easy. Any guy who didn't know her would have have the devil's own job satisfying her.

I am recounting the very personal details above because I think that it is the best example I know of illustrating the effects of the earliest sexual experience on the setting up of sex associated, emotional memories that are retriggered by thought, audio, visual, touch, taste, smell related stimuli in much later life within particular contexts. Since my partner's molestation happened when she was very young, she has no memory of it for either that reason or because of (that sensitive word) 'repression'. Just in case you are thinking that my partner didn't get any sexual arousal as a very small child, apparently very young prepubescent boys get erections and great pleasure from fondling their penises. Mammies in the deep south, I believe, used this method of keeping young male babies from crying and disturbing their brutal masters, therein avoiding very unpleasant repercussions. I often wonder what these first sexual imprintings did to their later sex life. Probably hearing a deep south lullaby gave them a 'hard on' in later life, who knows.

Back to you. What follows is my best guessing and is highly likely to be wrong just like I was in my previous postings to you. That doesn't matter. Through much erroneous theorizing on my part, the truth may come out eventually if you desire it to do so here in so very public a place. You are the ultimate judge, jury and executioner of that.

It is my suspicion - I don't know for sure, that's for sure - is that you imprinted sexually during your molestation. However, at the same time you laid down terrible emotional memories of fear. Associated with these emotional memories, but in a whole different memory system, were contextual memories of being completely powerless and not in control. Later on you met your abuser, Lucifer. He subjected you to the same overpowering loss of control over your body though maybe in a different way. You may have submitted to this abuse, having been conditioned to it in your molestation experiences by your parents' totally inappropriate response to your reporting of the incident.

Your parents' response may have combined with your own thought patterns as a child of 8 years of age, therein setting up the unconscious responses sequenced as fear quickly followed by anger at ... ... ... ; anger that you now experience in later life when recalling the molestation. The molestation memory recall still may have the power to threaten you, even today! I believe anger is just one response to fear.

I'l leave the gap for you to fill in.

Freeing yourself from these painful emotions is not served by repressing the memory but by thoroughly understanding your thoughts and beliefs about this molestation that you have harboured hidden in your unconscious ever since then. I strongly suspect that, having done that, you will see how irrational those thoughts and beliefs truly are - whatever they are. Thus these problematic thoughts and beliefs will be abandoned naturally and replaced in your unconscious by a much more adult thoughts, understandings and beliefs of thest events. Our unconscious drives our emotions often in painful ways. Therapy may be the place and the way to go.

That's my take on this interesting aspect of our humanity.

You also wrote:

"That voice whispers about this, and many other things. May I ask you a question? How long, how long? Some days are great, and some are not too great. I really have to work at not just mentally whoopin myself.."

How long is a piece of string? I'm not being a smart arse. It is just that the answer is so dependent upon so many unknowns. I doubt that there is a living human being who could answer that question.

You also wrote:

"The other thing I really have a hard time with is this - I can look at my parents and the messages I received as a little girl, and understand why I think about myself the way I do. I do my level best to offset the images. Where I really struggle is not HATING them. Not getting caught up in the resentment. This is something I struggle with everyday."

The word 'resentment' comes from the latin word 'resentere' which means to 're-feel'. What our mind does is to recall the emotions felt in the past when our emotional memories are triggered off by certain events. Our 're-feelings' are our conscious awareness of the re-arousal of these old emotions. In most cases if not all this retriggering is beyond our control. What we do after that retriggering is within our control if we are 'savvy'. If not then the cycle of thoughts that follow the initial recall maintain the emotional arousal into a full blown 're-feeling'of the painful experience for an indeterminate period of time. That is called a 'resentment'; i.e. a prolonged 'refeeling' maintained by thought. To avoid resentments, one has to change the resentment maintaining thought patterns that follow the initial retriggering of the emotional memory.

You cannot in my opinion just 'wish and will' inappropriate thoughts away from your psyche. If you are struggling to not be a certain way, then this is a form of non-acceptance of your self as you are at this moment. This only exacerbates the situation. It is OK not to be OK at this moment.

What will change your resentment maintaining thinking is deep insights and realizations into the very nature of your beliefs about yourself; beliefs that are hidden in your unconscious waiting to be discovered. Therapy may help discover some of these beliefs and deep insights and realizations may follow from this.

Insight meditation(Vipassana) has been my great 'therapist'. I do this sitting, lying, walking and sometimes even while working.

You have a 'wise old woman' deep inside of your mind that has all of the answers that you need, I promise you. Access and ask her and you will receive. But you have to ask, look and listen for your answers very attentively with lots of concentration, determination and commitment. Nothing for nothing and nothing changes if nothing changes.

Then you wrote:

"There is so much to do and think about!!"

Yep! But it doesn't all have to be done yesterday. 🙂 Impatience is the Western disease.

And:

"Also - I saw papers. Divorce papers."

Interesting!! The drought looks like it is about to break, if it hasn't already. So it's good bye thoughts of casinoman, here comes the cowboy! The lucky bugger! 🙂

'Good on yer' and 'good on 'im' as they say in Oz.

February 23, 2007
8:15 pm
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Wow - I wrote a book!

February 23, 2007
11:10 pm
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Tez

Thanks for your response. You're a sweetheart.

First this - "Back to you. What follows is my best guessing and is highly likely to be wrong just like I was in my previous postings to you."

You weren't all wrong. I did not say I disagreed- I said my inclination was to deny everything. I apologise if the way I phrased it caused you to think otherwise.

You were hardly wrong at all. The only thing I disputed was that I "let" her. I thought about this alot, too. I was forced, but I felt pleasure, and I see that is where the problems I have had with shame came in. Also- and this is speculation - but my mother had her shame, and she passed that on to me- in trying to protect me from her fate of being pregnant at 17.

But because of that immediate denial inclination, I couldn't answer you quickly. Because I was so flustered, I knew I had better stop and evaluate each part of your post that bothered me. It wasn't you, baby - it was about me!! I know that when something flusters me, it is something that needs to be dealt with. And if I can't I will say this is all I can realise/acknowledge right now.

And re: Luc - "You may have submitted to this abuse, having been conditioned to it in your molestation experiences by your parents' totally inappropriate response to your reporting of the incident."

I always became totally still. I never tried to fight, and I never discussed it with anyone until years afterward, because it seemed so weird and shameful to me.

Before the abuse started? The few times (early in the relationship) that I moved my hips and pelvis, I was instructed not to move. When I did, he called me a whore. I could never initiate sex. He called me a fuckin horny whore. I really believe he liked rape. The control and the fear. It was my stillness, not my movements that aroused him. I suspected that a partner who responded normally frightened him.

It took me 4 years after the abuse to work up my nerve to have sex again. The first couple of times I was so tense, and I could see the poor guy just working his ass off to get me off, and I just couldn't. Anyway- I worked up my nerve and told him why and he was patient and I lost my terror.

Here is something interesting. I never cared for fellatio until after the abuser. I like it now, and I remember describing this to you. This feeling of power I felt with the casino man- on my knees. I just didn't care for it before, but! I think it is because I was never asked- my head was pushed down.

However - my nipples are extremely sensitive, and I really like that stimulation in foreplay. But not rough. I hate a biter or a nibbler. That kills desire for me. But I don't know how common or uncommon that is - I've said before, most women won't discuss it. It's not something you can just bring up at work or the family reunions with the aunts all in the kitchen!! The women that have discussed it with me don't like this as much as I do.

Another thing is that I kind of like it when my lover holds my arms over my head and pins them to the bed. I don't mind being tied up- with a person I trust. There have been two men in my life that I have trusted to do this.

"However, at the same time you laid down terrible emotional memories of fear." Fear arouses me- a little fear. This may sound contradictory- bear with me. If I feel honest fear, big fear, I won't be there. If possible, I will remove myself from the situation. But if I am with someone I trust, it arouses me enough to make the sex better. Like the arms pinned down. But nothing rough. Too scary. Does that make sense?

I kind of like being in control, but it seems like a benign sense of helplessness arouses me, too.

When I have more insight, I will let you know….

Also - since I shared that post with you? About the molestation? After the first night, I was mildly nauseous for a couple of days, then I cried for a few, and then- this week I had all this energy!! I attacked my front porch again and I have gotten rid of some more shit!! Those possessions that I have held on to! More useless shit. (I do get the parallels here) I know I'm going to be ok. For one thing, I have been able to bring all this out, and talk about it - to you. That has helped me. You have never been judgemental in your posts to me. Thank you.

That casino man! He has been very persistent here lately - apparently the lady he was seeing also got tired of his commitment phobia!! I had an IM conversation with him one night after he IM'd me and told me he was available!! I thanked him for informing me, but told him I wasn't interested. He then told me that he thought of "the sex we had" constantly. When he had sex with HER. Well I like to think so, but I still told him "Well, I hate it for you, because it won't happen again." I was a real smart-ass and enjoyed it. I was happy to hear that things didn't work out with her, and that she left him because he would only commit to sex. It wasn't me- the casino man has an M.O. Ha!! It wasn't me so I was finally able to retire the whisper that told me I wasn't good enough for the casino man.

The drought hasn't broken yet, sorry to say. We are going to try to get together and talk, possibly this weekend. The new job he has as production manager sometimes requires him to work weekends. I'm gonna take it slow. I have thought about this for the week since I saw papers, and I would like to date again, the way we did. I have this therapy looming ahead. And- although I don't want to, I really need to finish the courses I started. I hate the thought of them right now, but I was remembering xray school and when I was ¾ of the way through it, I was sooo burnt out. I am ¾ through this and it is the same dull hatred I am feeling for the studies. Luckily, this time, I can decide when I start the next one. In xray training, we got no breaks. The options of online are great.

I just want to date again. He was honest with me, and respected my wishes to be left alone until he was free. He really did not push it often or too much. He just contacted me enough to remind me he was still around- I guess. I respect that.

I think…I will be able to talk to him and share more of myself this time.

Bevdee

February 23, 2007
11:13 pm
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Tez

Yeah - we both wrote at least a chapter!!

February 24, 2007
7:15 pm
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Hi BevDee.

When we are finished there won't be much left for the therapist to do. Just kiddin'.

For some reason, something caught my eye as seeming to be more significant than the rest. You said:

"But if I am with someone I trust, it arouses me enough to make the sex better. Like the arms pinned down. But nothing rough. Too scary. Does that make sense?

I kind of like being in control, but it seems like a benign sense of helplessness arouses me, too."

I am sensing a mild kind of 'tug-of-war' going on in your psyche. 'Being in control' is a kind of empowerment. A "benign sense of helplessness" implies a lack of empowerment. But more so than a lack of power, a "benign sense of helplessness" seems to me to imply a certain lack of moral responsibility for what happens as well. Perhaps for you to be turned fully on, there is a certain emotional tightrope that you need to walk between your own moral self-judgment on the one hand and feeling powerful and in control of your sexual activities on the other. Perhaps the hint of fear of which you speak is related to walking this tightrope. Being tied down may be a part of this feeling of freedom from any hint of responsibility for what is 'being done' sexually to you. Unconscious freedom from parental messages? What do you think?

The greatest turn on for me was with Ms. Sneaky during foreplay with my fingers inside her, feeling the power course though my arm and fingers causing her body to gyrate almost uncontrollably until she orgasmed wetting the bed in the process. Repeating that a couple more times, before seeking my own satisfaction, was almost enough in itself for me!!!

Two things facilitated my intense turn on above. One was the fact that Ms. Sneaky was a close fit mother template, and the other was my desire to control and please my mother. I loved that control through pleasure giving not through fear giving as per Luc style. I still fantasize over manipulating women's vaginas with my hand for reasons apart from the obvious sexual desires. I can look at the woman's face and accurately judge the effects of my manipulations - this is the key to my turn on. It is an 'end' in itself. The rest for me is a bonus. The words of that song "What's Love got to do with it" by Tina Turner comes to mind.

Both the template and this strong desire to control and please my mother(and my father for that matter) - apart from the 'inherent' component - was set in place in my infancy and early childhood.

Ms. Sneaky was completely non-plussed by her own extreme sexual response to my foreplay. She claimed never to have had multiple orgasms, especially of the 'wet' kind, before. In fact with the previous guy with whom she went for 2 years, she claimed only to have orgasmed once on two separate occasions in the whole two years and that was during the early stages. Her high level of turn on and subsequent 'obsessing' is in my opinion both template related and also related to the intensity of the power I was feeling as exhibited to her by my muscle tensions and contractions and the expressions on my face. It was a tango performed by the 'demons' conceived and born in the wombs of the past in both of our psyches.

Why I am soooo interested in all this 'stuff' is that to live life to the fullest sexually and otherwise we have to be freed from the 'sick' constraints imposed on us by our past experiences and empowered by our more functional neuroses.

About your sex with Luc, you said:

"... ... he called me a whore. I could never initiate sex. He called me a fuckin horny whore. I really believe he liked rape."

Yep! He was probably 'raping' his mother who was lying totally still and powerless beneath him. I am not implying some incestuous desire that he had for sex with his mother or that he was consciously thinking about her as he was 'screwing' you.

I deliberately selected the word 'screwing' because it has negative connotations of hate driven power in it. You could probably feel his need to control you absolutely combined with the hate that emanated from him in sex.

Luc's early childhood experiences with his mother, though non-sexual in nature, obviously played a critical role on how he got his maximum turn on with you. Your part in submitting to that horrible dance time after time was probably strongly influenced by your molestation experience and the learned helplessness that you experienced therein and after when not believed by your parents.

Nothing is as it seems on the surface is it. That's why I hate having guilt trips put on me or any one else, whether it be under the guise of being told that I have a 'sinful nature' and am looking for an excuse to indulge my sinful appetites, a la Christian party lines, or any other similar grossly uninformed non-sense.

Wow! Plenty of 'meat' in all this - no sexual pun intended.

I bet you are looking forward to the rains coming. I sure hope the drought breaking rain isn't spawned by a tornado but by a quiet zephyr. 🙂

Poor casinoman. ;-(

February 25, 2007
4:16 pm
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Tez,

Thanks for your response-

Ok - here is something I thought of- a vague NAG at the back of my mind after I typed it.

"But I don't know how common or uncommon that is - I've said before, most women won't discuss it." What is true is that these conversations don't come up, but I am very hesitant to initiate them. I believe I am very rigid about NOT discussing this in the presence of other women.

Now I remember this -

When I was 19, I was dating a young man my age who was living with his aunt. One night he told me to meet him at her house after he got off work. He had to work late, and I waited there with her. She had always been very pleasant to visit with and I liked her. She told me that evening that she was so happy to have the opportunity to talk to me and get to know me better. Pretty quickly she turned the conversation to sex - she wanted to know if her nephew and I were having sex, if I was using birth control….. Then she started asking me Qs about sex- like what I liked, etc. I was really naive, and told her. She propositioned me, and when I declined and put on my coat to leave, she told me in detail all she would do to please me. She said "you know you want it, you just told me what to do". I was SO naive.

The next day, I had to explain to my boyfriend why I didn't wait for him, and he laughed and told me I was crazy- his aunt wasn't gay!! She lived with a man. I never brought it up again to him.

So- I have figured out something else - I have projected and denied my reticence and the reason for it by saying "other women don’t want to talk about it" when I am the one who is uncomfortable with any discussion about sex with women. Hmm.

I have never thought of it this way - "Unconscious freedom from parental messages? What do you think?"

Any time I am presented with duality - I say it is because of my sign Gemini. That's my flaky explanation. Your explanation makes sense and I am still thinking about it. Thinking about the messages they sent me.

You say this - "But more so than a lack of power, a "benign sense of helplessness" seems to me to imply a certain lack of moral responsibility for what happens as well."
What do you mean by moral responsibility? I kind of have an aversion to the word moral or morality - because of certain connotations that word has for me, and a morality that was imposed on me. I know you know what I mean. I have a strong sense of right and wrong, but I am not sure what you mean when you say moral.

I have re-read that entire paragraph and when I do, I feel short of breath. I am going to think on this some more - I am nothing if not tenacious.

Abandon - when I achieve it, it scares me some, and I do battle with some shame. I don't know if abandon is the proper word - I feel like I am grasping for the right word. Maybe un-inhibition?

I believe that when I got to a point in trust with my cousin that I could get close to losing my inhibitions - he wasn't comfortable with it. Maybe even in a "non-conventional" relationship he had some inhibitions. I don't know now, and I probably never will.

And - the casino man, with whom I had less inhibition than ever before, loved what we did in bed and he repeatedly told me "I love that you are so nasty". I think he meant it as a compliment, but I hated when he said that. That word.

I was finally feeling less inhibited, more at ease with Niceman when his marital situation reared its head, and we stopped seeing each other. I was a little nervous. And I had this little fear that, with all my new knowledge of sex and the psyche - that I would think of my mother or other things when I had sex again. (I didn't!!) Gentle rain.

We had dinner last night, and to my eternal relief, he didn't ask me to get married or push for any more than seeing me again. We are just going to date and see how things go. He is real stressed out about money now- in order to settle the divorce quickly, and not sell his place, he had to borrow a lot of money to pay her a settlement. She left real quick after she got the money. Humph!! I am so relieved that this was resolved quickly and I was not involved in any of it. That would have been too much stress for me, with all that I have chosen to deal with in the last 18 months!!

I feel real good today- for all that I can take matters into my own hands, there is alot to be said for the old protein injection.

Talk to you later-

Bevdee

February 25, 2007
4:32 pm
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Tez, I said this -

"I have re-read that entire paragraph and when I do, I feel short of breath. I am going to think on this some more - I am nothing if not tenacious."

I would like to add that I welcome anything you might have to say in the time I am thinking about it.

Bevdee

February 26, 2007
7:50 pm
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Bevdee

Thanks for your response.

You asked:

"What do you mean by moral responsibility?"

I mean that as children our heads were pumped full of Christian 'morality': "Do this and you go to hell, do that and you go to heaven. You must be a good little girl. Don't let boys touch you here and there, etc. You are responsible before God for your sinful actions. On and on..."

Even though we tend to think that we have thrown out all this Christian religiosity, we have not done so completely, IMHO. Our unconscious mental processes have been conditioned so intensely in our formative years that our psyche does unconsciously 'moralize' based upon this conditioning. Feeling that something is 'wrong' is often based upon this past childhood conditioning.

Choosing to seek sexual pleasure by doing something voluntarily may evoke unpleasant feelings because of this conditioning. But the mind is a brilliant self-deceiver!!! If the choice is not yours to make and you take sexual pleasure from the same thing then no unconscious conflict(unconscious cognitive dissonance) arises.

I was not implying that I am sitting in some sort of moral judgment on you when I make the statement:

"But more so than a lack of power, a "benign sense of helplessness" seems to me to imply a certain lack of moral responsibility for what happens as well."

What I was saying is that the mind, in seeking to 'have its cake and eat it' by avoiding the unpleasant feelings caused by cognitive dissonance, often offsets one side of the tug-O-war between two or more conflicting issues by seeking to weaken one side or the other. This inner 'war' is usually fear driven.

You also said:

"I have re-read that entire paragraph and when I do, I feel short of breath. I am going to think on this some more - I am nothing if not tenacious."

Because I think that this is a very important sign post for you into what's going on in your psyche, I will now rewrite my above statement to clarify what I meant. It is well worth dwell on this aspect of your sexual preferences because I feel that it has much wider implications for you than just when having sex.

"But more so than a lack of power, a "benign sense of helplessness" seems to me to imply that your mind is seeking to avoid unpleasant feelings caused by the old conditioning of Christian 'moral responsibility' for doing something 'sinful' as well."

I have highlighted the changes that I have made to my original statement.

Put another way: "If I am helpless to avoid doing something, then it in not my 'sin' but the 'sin' of the person having his way with me. I am now free to enjoy the pleasurable experience without the nagging feeling of guilt."

One side of the tug-O-war in your mind may be nulled out by your sense of "benign helplessness". That unconscious 'mind game' is what I was trying to explain. This instance may be a pointer to hidden 'parental messages'(past conditioning) that are still affecting your life in ways that you don't really want them to if 'they see the light of day' - as it were.

You also wrote:

"And - the casino man, with whom I had less inhibition than ever before, loved what we did in bed and he repeatedly told me "I love that you are so nasty". I think he meant it as a compliment, but I hated when he said that. That word."

The word "nasty"? This is a good 'signpost' too. I can see two ways of how you might have applied that word to your inner self-esteeming process. You could have thought: "Casinoman meant that what I did with(to) him would be considered 'nasty' by nice people and but he loved it." OR you could have thought: "Casinoman meant that I would be considered a 'nasty' person, a whore, by nice people for doing what I did. But he loved that I was uninhibited like a whore."

The former thought judges the act 'in the eyes of public opinion of nice people' while the latter judges the person 'in the eyes of public opinion of nice people'. From a self-esteem point of view, there is a huge difference. It appears to me that you momentarily switched between the two thoughts, at least unconsciously, and then chose the former

What really interests me here is why you were so uninhibited with Casinoman and not with others? It seems to me that there is a strong connection in your psyche between the reasons for liking sexual acts in the context of "benign helplessness" and liking Casino man based uninhibited sex. It may be that both are based upon the one and the same underlying reason.

What we are doing here is making a pilgrimage down through the pathways of your psyche to that pristine level below which is absolute perfection. It is this level upon which any basis for 'self'-assessment should be found.

Put simply the journey is one of: "I am not that, not that, not that, not that, ... ... I am that - ahhhh, how wonderful!!!"

You said:

"I was finally feeling less inhibited, more at ease with Niceman when his marital situation reared its head, and we stopped seeing each other. I was a little nervous. And I had this little fear that, with all my new knowledge of sex and the psyche - that I would think of my mother or other things when I had sex again. (I didn't!!) Gentle rain."

Noooo ... it doesn't work that way. When I'm having sex I don't think about my mother at all and never have, nor will I ever, I suspect!! Yet when I go deep in my psyche later on after having sex, I see why I like pig f..kin' at times, especially with Ms. Sneaky.

Some will say: "Why bother with all this shit. Just get on with enjoying life." I say to such people: "Oh yeah?? You mean on auto-pilot like you, don't you?" If I hadn't gone into the 'ins and outs of the ducks arse' in regard to my sex life, my preference for 'pig f..kin' and my addiction for Ms. Sneaky and Ms. Stinky, I would be either in an insane assylum, dead or locked up permanently for murder. Men who shoot their wives and kids and then turn the gun on themselves are guys who didn't have what it takes to turn within and see the 'demons' that drive them. I am pre-empting the judgmental thoughts of many readers here, not yours, in writing this paragraph. I know you can see the reasons why we are taking this journey.

Congrats with your progress with the Niceman. It sounds like he has taken the bit between his teeth. He sounds like he has what it takes to make a good life long traveling companion, if it pans out that way, that is. At least now you and he are free to 'try each other out' without the wife factor weighing heavily on both of you.

Whoops ... just as I was finishing the last paragraph the phone rang. When I answered no one spoke. I found myself listening to an unrequited love song - something about "a tender love gone wrong" and "please say you will come back to me". It sounded like a modern country and western song. I listened to the whole song play out. After it finished, I said: "That was nice" and the phone hung up at the other end immediately I spoke. This was Ms. Sneaky's kind of thing. She would 'play songs at me' saying that this was how she felt. I took part in a progressive dance on Sunday night last. Eventually Ms. sneaky progressed to me. Since she had just returned from a holiday trip down south with her fiance, I said: "Have you been teasing those southern boys?" To which she replied with a cheeky grin:"No". She gave both my hands a loving squeeze and progressed on to the next guy. Just now this phone call!!!

I have such mixed feelings right now - talk about cognitive dissonance!! One half of me wants to run a mile, while the other half wants to bed her immediately!!! In a few minutes I'll get this little boy inside me under control and settled down again.

February 27, 2007
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Hey Tez

Ok. I am thinking about my parents' messages. I have always had this public persona. Very ladylike, straightlaced, always sitting with my knees together. This is what my mother taught me. This is what my daddy expected. I still do it. I can hear my mother hissing "knees" when a male would come anywhere near us - in the park, a restaurant, church, wherever.

Never be seen in public in a shirt without a bra on. When we were at the lake swimming, we were to cover ourselves with a wrap around skirt immediately after we got out of the water. She made us practice climbing a ladder that led up to the boat so when we got back in the boat after skiing, we would appear graceful. There is a proper way to swing the legs out and keep them together when coming out of a sports car or any car. Trucks are tricky.

This was my childhood training. The emphasis was always propriety and appearance.

When I was with Luc - I just shut all sexuality off. He was also very vigilant of my behaviour in public. I could never eat an ice cream cone in public!! Because the sex was so rotten and short-lived, I stopped myself from having any sexual thoughts. (Since I did this fairly well, why can't I do this with negative whispers?????) Those thoughts would lead me nowhere, certainly no satisfaction, and if I moved too much, he would punish me verbally or physically. I repressed everything- anger, sexuality. Now, sometimes it seems that is all there is to me!!

Here is another thing I have never admitted to anyone. Because Luc was married the first time I started dating him, and years later, he told me he was divorced, and we lived together for 2 years before I found out he was still married. I felt responsible for the erosion of his marriage. His wife was so bitter about me, she had not let him see his daughter since the first time they separated. I felt a lot of guilt about that little girl. I felt a lot of that moral guilt, although his wife messed around on him from the beginning of their marriage, long before I met him. I was born to feel guilty. I remember sometimes thinking that the rotten relationship and lousy sex was something I deserved for breaking up that little girl's home. (I don't feel that way now, I know Luc and his ex were responsible) Also, feeling responsible for breaking up a home put me in the same position I had put my step dad in, and I had despised him. Not comfortable.

In the first years after I left Luc, I kept my sexual feelings shut down, and even kept masturbation down to a minimum so as not to awaken any feelings. Masturbation actually made it worse for a couple of days afterward. This repressing was such a struggle sometimes, and I found myself becoming angry at co-workers for telling "dirty" jokes. By the time my cousin came to town, I was very tightly wound. Really prudish.

I have to come back to my mother. She told me that her pregnancy with me was a result of rape. She told me that sex with my father was always uncomfortable because she is so small. She told me that she only liked having sex with one man. She had an affair with my daddy's best friend after I was born, and conceived my sister during the affair. She summarized these two stories by telling me that sex always got her in trouble. She later complained that sex with my step dad was very short-lived. I always assumed this was her euphemism for premature ejaculation. I had to hear these complaints of hers ad nauseum. How unpleasant sex was. How troublesome.

My gramma, Mom's mother, told me that after my grampa found his mother hanging in the basement, he was never able to perform as a husband. She was 38. She told me that she had one affair, with the family physician. Quelle horreure! He was our doctor. Gramma had her shame and guilt too. She told me that by the time she was 50, she asked to have a hysterectomy, thinking that would quiet her urges. She told me she was mistaken.

My mother's sisters are, in my opinion, frigid. From the little they say about sex, I think they don't like it. Maybe they do, but they think it unseemly to admit liking it.

I have never had a conversation about human sexuality with my daddy. He once told me about the mating habits of wild horses, his face reddening at times. There were only allusions to sex in his admonitions to me to behave.

""But more so than a lack of power, a "benign sense of helplessness" seems to me to imply that your mind is seeking to avoid unpleasant feelings caused by the old conditioning of Christian 'moral responsibility' for doing something 'sinful' as well." "
Stated this way, this makes sense to me.

""Casinoman meant that what I did with (to) him would be considered 'nasty' by nice people and but he loved it." OR you could have thought: "Casinoman meant that I would be considered a 'nasty' person, a whore, by nice people for doing what I did. But he loved that I was uninhibited like a whore.""

I thought both. I also wondered if he thought I wasn't good enough to spend time with his sons. Because he thought I was nasty. He introduced me to them a couple of times, but I never spent any time with them. The time we spent together was apart from them, at my house or at a motel. His most recent girlfriend, the one he said was lousy in bed, (I know, yeah sure) spent weekends with him and his sons. Ouch. Maybe it is just because I am so loud when I have sex, and he didn't want to have his kids hearing all that, but still.. Ouch. It felt like I wasn't good enough.

This -- "What really interests me here is why you were so uninhibited with Casinoman and not with others? It seems to me that there is a strong connection in your psyche between the reasons for liking sexual acts in the context of "benign helplessness" and liking Casino man based uninhibited sex. It may be that both are based upon the one and the same underlying reason."

I don't know if I understand this.

Maybe part of the reason is that before we physically met each other, we had tested each others fantasies on the messenger. The pornication. But I never did that with anyone before and haven't since. It was just something about him. He's hot. I wanted him and everything he suggested and did felt good to me.

And for all that I tend to think I wasn't good enough for him, or he didn't think so, that I was only good to him for sex, he helped me when I had to move last year and the Niceman was out of town. I called him in a panic, because my help had bailed on me, I couldn't back a trailer, and he spent two entire weekends moving furniture and boxes. It was slow work, because I was broke, couldn't afford a moving van, and we had to use a pickup truck and a small flat trailer.

Sometimes, I believe he backed off because we were so intense with? To? each other. Maybe the intensity firghtened him as much as it did me. As we were messenger-ing each other this last time, I thought about just *doing it*. I have thought about it so much and it has been almost a year. But I found myself thinking "and here is how it will be …." with conditions I would place on the relationship. Conditions that I wanted a guarantee of being met if I agreed. Then a shout, not a whisper, in my head said "BULLSHIT YOU WILL BE MISERABLE NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE PIGFUCKIN IS AND YOU KNOW IT." And I have to wonder if he has some shouters in his head about me. Here's a secret - I'm not perfect. 🙂

But as to why I gave over to Casinoman so completely? I still don't know. I don't know why I had no inhibitions with him. It was both with him - powerful and helpless.

When I started dating the Niceman, I was really on the rebound from Casinoman, though I hadn't completely quit seeing him. That happened a couple of months later. A little while after I started seeing Niceman, I moved in with the roommates. After I became aware of her husband's problems, I started .. I don't know, tightening up again. Feeling creepy. Ashamed. I think it would be accurate to say that is because of the memories wnating surface and my efforts to continue to rperess them, and it is probably the reason I was protective of myself. The reason I covered myself after we made love.

And, too- I guess I thought that maybe if I were more ladylike, he would stick around for the long haul - you know, maybe introduce me to his family. (Wow, that sounds really pitiful, and I feel really vulnerable saying that.)

Niceman and I have talked about our reticence with each other. He is so polite, and I try to be so ladylike. He told me that he would like it if I were more aggressive, and I told him the same. We both just looked at each other embarrassed, I think. So, the other evening, it was a little more relaxed. I have been spending my driving time (my job) thinking about ways I can go for it. To surprise him. It's a lovely pasttime.

As for your phone call and your reaction? Tez, believe me, I am the same way. After the IM session with Casinoman the other night, I was angry. Angry that I had even communicated with him and that I was horny from talking to him on the messenger. No pornication, just talking. Dammit. I should just not respond to his IM or the email. See there it is in me, again - angry and horny and angry that I am horny, and I am uncomfortable with all of it, because neither of those emotions? feelings? Were permitted in my upbringing or in the relationship with Luc.

"This was Ms. Sneaky's kind of thing. She would 'play songs at me' saying that this was how she felt." This made me laugh, picturing you listening to a looove song on the phone!! Too bad you couldn't play that old song Send in the Clowns back at her!!

But- did you kind of tease Sneaky, a little tiny bit? Or does it just take the slightest interchange with her? You ladykiller.

Your post before your last one has caused me to ask myself what is my TRUE moral responsibility? Moral responsibility to myself. To others? What are my morals without a religion or my parents to define them? What will they be in a year, if I continue to evaluate everything? I'm still pondering that.

Good talking to you.

February 27, 2007
8:00 pm
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Hey Tez

I thought about this all day -

"What really interests me here is why you were so uninhibited with Casinoman and not with others? It seems to me that there is a strong connection in your psyche between the reasons for liking sexual acts in the context of "benign helplessness" and liking Casino man based uninhibited sex. It may be that both are based upon the one and the same underlying reason."

What might that reason be? I am just hitting a brick wall when I try to think of it. I am suspecting you are trying to coax something out of me, but I can't. I'm frustrated now.

Bevdee

March 1, 2007
8:04 pm
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Hi BevDee,

I apologise for my tardiness in responding. Pressures of work and all.

I'll get this one out of the way first. You said:

"But- did you kind of tease Sneaky, a little tiny bit? Or does it just take the slightest interchange with her?"

I did a few things. Firstly I joined the management committee of a dance club to which we both belong. Her and her fiance eaves dropped on a meeting seeing me 'in full flight'. This was a 'turn on' for her. Secondly, when our eyes met across the dance floor, rather than ignoring her seductive smile, I winked at her, just as I do to both males and females who do a similar thing. In Ms. Sneaky's case she interpreted that behavior as an 'open sesame' for further contact. It was my unthinking, natural response to a pleasant smile from her. My wink was saying "You're an OK person" - nothing else.

She is over her 'natural' limit of 2 years in any relationship. It's a point in time when she lines up her next relationship prior to giving her current partner the big push. This is and has been her MO over many years if not all her life.

To my knowledge I'm the only one to give her the 'bum's rush' after only about 4 months into a torrid sexual relationship relationship with her. She was still in the 'honeymoon period of infatuation' whilst I was in a full blown, template push-pull attack when I 'pulled the pin' and bailed out(RAAF terminology). She now appears to wants to get back into that hot bed of lust that left her wanting a hell of a lot more. Or she could be trying to set me up to 'publicly' reject me - woman scorned stuff. either way, I won't play her deadly game.

The poor bastard, who is currently her fiance, loves her to death. In the last 2 years, he has purchased a luxury home for her, and sold that home on her request to buy another one much closer to where I live. Now I strongly suspect that she's trying to get him out and me into that home. Hmmmm!! I really feel for this poor guy. He's a great bloke, a real man's man but he seems to know nothing about women, especially Ms. Sneaky!! His neck is on the chopping block as well as his assets and he doesn't seem to know it.

I'm debating in my mind whether to tell Joy about the 'unrequited love song' phone call. She will be furious if I do and will suffer greatly from insecurity attacks. She might even front Ms Sneaky's fiance and give him an earful about it. Of course Ms. Sneaky would deny she made the call. Based upon the words of the song, her past behavior in this regard and the fact that there is no one else in this state of mind who would do such a thing, it can't be anyone else but her who has done this!! My gut reaction is to just 'let sleeping dogs lie' and to say and do nothing.

"You ladykiller." Hmmm!!! You know what I think about that!! Template business nothing else!!

Now down to the really important stuff.

I wrote:

"What really interests me here is why you were so uninhibited with Casinoman and not with others? It seems to me that there is a strong connection in your psyche between the reasons for liking sexual acts in the context of "benign helplessness" and liking Casino man based uninhibited sex. It may be that both are based upon the one and the same underlying reason."

You responded with:

"What might that reason be? I am just hitting a brick wall when I try to think of it. I am suspecting you are trying to coax something out of me, but I can't. I'm frustrated now."

I really don't know what the reason, that might be held in common between the two dispositions above, might be. I am intuiting as I re-read your posts and my own responses.

I intuit that there is a 'BevDee core self' that demands inner protection during the vulnerable time of uninhibited sex.

During "benign helplessness" the unconscious self-image protecting self-talk might go something like this below.

Inner parent to Inner Child:

"you are not in control when you are tied down - the guy is. So you cannot be blamed and branded by my inner parental messages as 'not being a nice girl'"

During so-called 'nasty' sex with the casinoman, sex that you really love having with him, you have some other kind of unconscious self-image protecting self-talk going down. What is it? Your unconscious self-talk might go something like this:

"You(Casinoman) are my parent. So if you are doing this to me and with me it must be OK and you must not think that these sex acts brand me as 'not being a nice girl'. That makes it all OK".

The commonality that I am intuiting might be the strong unconscious desire to not be branded as being 'not a nice girl' by your internal parental messages.

In all of us humans, I believe lies psychological images of our parents that sit in judgment on us to the degree that our real parents or other significant caregivers did in our childhood.

If that unconscious inner parental self-judgment is negative then we suffer an emotional insecurity attack exactly the same as we did in childhood when our parents were displeased with our behavior. Of course in such instances of 'nasty sex' all we are aware of is not feeling good about doing 'this or that' and are thus inhibited from deriving any pleasure even if we try to make ourselves do it - except with Casino man.

Please don't let me convince you that all of the above is what is actually happening in your psyche - unless of course it sets off alarm bells of recognition. I am only rumaging around in your psyche looking for inner inhibiting and possibly relationship destroying beliefs and psychological processes that might be underpinning your inability to expose your inner self to 'niceman'.

I would do things very differently if I was in a one-on-one conversation with you. I would talk about this watching your face for give away emotional responses. From these cues I would steer the line of questioning down along the path of discovery, layer by layer into your psyche exposing your unconscious self to your conscious self at each interdependent 'layer' until we hit 'pay dirt' at the bottom. Doing so in a totally non-judgmental way would lead to the self-acceptance so necessary for freedom from the past.

If you would like to try a couple of experiments then:

Close your eyes and think of and recreate in your mind's cinema the most sexy turn on, 'nasty' act that you and casinoman ever did together. Then re-run the movie putting the 'niceman' in casinoman's place doing (receiving) exactly the same 'nasty' thing to (from) you. Would you be just as uninhibited with the 'niceman'? If not, why not?

Imagine yourself tied down by niceman in a state of benign helplessness with him doing something to you that really turns you on sexually. Then imagine him doing the same thing without you being tied down. See if you can spot what makes the difference - in your psyche of course - to your pleasure levels.

The aim of all this is to free yourself up to accept and be yourself at your deepest level and to stop this self-denying thinking that 'certain' thoughts, feelings and desires be allowed to exist or see the light of day.

I will demonstrate what I am NOT saying with an extreme example. I'm not suggesting that paedophiles should practice their paedophilia without inhibition or that psychopaths should go around murdering people without any inhibitions.

What I am saying is that paedophiles and psychopaths are to be encouraged to face and accept those parts of themselves that make them socially unacceptable with great self-acceptance and commitment to finding ways to relieve and to satisfy these urges - in socially acceptable ways if necessary.

Self-acceptance does not imply a lack of desire to change. I never made one iota of change to my drinking habits as a practicing alcoholic until 34 years ago, when in a deep 'rock bottom', I recognized that I was an alcoholic and uncritically accepted that fact about myself.

Untreated alcoholism was and still is a socially unacceptable disease. Exposure of myself to myself without recriminations or moral judgments enabled me to completely free myself from the debilitating effects of this disease.

I'm not implying that you have a disease like I have, but you do have a completely understandable ill-at-ease state of mind when it comes to opening up to 'niceman'.

IMHO, it is all a question of self-discovery, self-acceptance and self-recovery - all administered with lots of love!!!

(((Lots of love BevDee)))

March 1, 2007
11:05 pm
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Tez,

Hey, good to hear from you. I am going to try to wade through this and it may take me a day or so. I have company this week and it's a little harder to sit alone and think.

I wanted to say this again!! because this is making it hard to breathe - "Close your eyes and think of and recreate in your mind's cinema the most sexy turn on, 'nasty' act that you and casinoman ever did together. Then re-run the movie putting the 'niceman' in casinoman's place doing (receiving) exactly the same 'nasty' thing to (from) you. Would you be just as uninhibited with the 'niceman'? If not, why not?" I'll have to try this later tonight, and that's gonna be like opening a jar of jalapenos!!

I have spent so much of my life telling myself that my parents approval or disapproval did not matter to me, so now I am having trouble digesting this statement- "If that unconscious inner parental self-judgment is negative then we suffer an emotional insecurity attack exactly the same as we did in childhood when our parents were displeased with our behavior." It's as if a door or window in my head has slammed shut.

With these thoughts that make my head snap back? I know they are indicative of my touchy subjects. It is very difficult for me not to turn away from the thoughts because this is my habit. And when I do allow myself to go there, I go very cautiously.

Thanks for your post, and I will get back to you later.

Thanks for that hug.

March 3, 2007
8:47 pm
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Hi Bevdee

You said:

"Tez,

Hey, good to hear from you. I am going to try to wade through this and it may take me a day or so. I have company this week and it's a little harder to sit alone and think."

No wucking forries - take as long as yer want.

March 4, 2007
2:19 am
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Tez-I am not forried!

I can't sleep for thinking about this, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

"I intuit that there is a 'BevDee core self' that demands inner protection during the vulnerable time of uninhibited sex."

I used to care about and guard my rep. I told you about my public demeanor. After Luc, I protected myself so fiercely, and this was one of the reasons I didn't want to have sex with anyone and one of the reasons it took me so long to work up my nerve was that I didn't want anyone to see me naked. My cousin? I had told him this, so he made sure the room was totally dark the first time.

Yes - "you are not in control when you are tied down - the guy is. So you cannot be blamed and branded by my inner parental messages as 'not being a nice girl'" I really think this goes back to the molestation by the B-sitter. Her holding my arms down and my feeling pleasure in spite of my fear and attempts at resistance. Because now? I really like the struggle, straining against the restraints. I like being aroused to a frenzy and struggling to break free- I have broken the restraints before.

"You(Casinoman) are my parent. So if you are doing this to me and with me it must be OK and you must not think that these sex acts brand me as 'not being a nice girl'. That makes it all OK".

"The commonality that I am intuiting might be the strong unconscious desire to not be branded as being 'not a nice girl' by your internal parental messages."

I'm just going to ramble here about the first time I physically met Casinoman. We had dinner and hurried through that to get to the motel across the highway. During dinner he whispered asking me questions about or telling me what he was going to do to me. Laughing when my face flushed. Ornery. There was no hesitancy between us- ever. Afterward, he told me that he was surprised that I was as wild as I was, because I was so reserved in the restaurant. He said something about passion - untapped passion. I remember telling him that my passion and my wanting to be proper and ladylike had always been a struggle for me, and he told me it was a huge turn-on to be able to break down that reserve. I never covered myself after sex with him. He is the only one. And he is the only man I have ever let hold me through the night. I'm not a cuddler.

I knew it was not going to be a one night stand and I was right!! He liked me. He probed my mind and challenged me mentally. He was genuinely interested in my job, which I like to talk about and we had great discussions about everything. He initiated some sort of contact with me every day. Because he liked talking to me. Every time we got together it was great- until, when months later, he said that word.

Nasty.

Let me tell you how crushed I was. Because I will never forget this. We were taking a break from one of our marathons and we were lying there trying to catch our breath. He said, "I love how you are just so totally nasty and love getting f**ked every way I want to f**k you." I told him that I didn't consider what we did together nasty.. That it felt natural and wonderful to me. Ah shit. I do remember rolling away from him then and reaching for the blanket, but he took it off me so he could make love to me again.
Shit, I'm sick to my stomach my stomach is rolling again just thinking about it and it was probably a faux pas. Lack of vocabulary.

First part of the experiment "Would you be just as uninhibited with the 'niceman'? If not, why not?" Probably but my Niceman won't do it. I whispered to him once, while we were having sex, that I wanted him to tie me up and although he didn't say anything, I could tell it turned him on more than before I said it. I mean he was inside me, I could tell. I asked him once more about a month later to tie me to the headboard with bandanas - not handcuffs or leathers, but he said he would feel strange doing it. So- I won't ask him again.

"See if you can spot what makes the difference - in your psyche of course - to your pleasure levels." It decreased.

So ok - yeah what you say here- "If that unconscious inner parental self-judgment is negative then we suffer an emotional insecurity attack exactly the same as we did in childhood when our parents were displeased with our behavior." Today, I honestly don't think Niceman was displeased or disapproving of me, although since he declined my offer, I may have been trying to protect myself from any possibility of that. It's not something I have to have to achieve an orgasm. I don't think pushing the issue is worth it.

"In all of us humans, I believe lies psychological images of our parents that sit in judgment on us to the degree that our real parents or other significant caregivers did in our childhood." I have come to see this in regard to religion - I am still pondering what you have presented to me. It's not that I don't believe you, it's just slow going for me, understanding myself and acceptance.

You said "Self-acceptance does not imply a lack of desire to change. I never made one iota of change to my drinking habits as a practicing alcoholic until 34 years ago, when in a deep 'rock bottom', I recognized that I was an alcoholic and uncritically accepted that fact about myself." The end of denial. Was there finally freedom with the end of denial, Tez? Or at least the beginning of freedom?

I'm not expressing myself well. This is all I can do for now because I feel sick again. I have been trying to just experience and accept the emotion instead of fighting it, but this caught me unaware. I remembered stuff tonight that wasn't significant to me before. This automatic typing. Free association typing. I'm sorry if this is hard to follow, I am not going to re-read it.

Thanks, I'll be back.

March 4, 2007
9:38 pm
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bevdee

This fantastic post is just jam packed full of 'signposts' and other interesting stuff. Having said that I'm very concerned that this might be getting to emotionally 'heavy' for you.

I'm flying blind here. I have no instantaneous emotional feedback channel that allows me to temper what I say with discretion and caution.

Would you like to take a break for a while to ease off and let your emotions settle down an little? maybe to digest what you believe is important, relevant and helpful at this point in your life?

When will you be starting with your therapist?

March 4, 2007
10:30 pm
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Tez

You are so sweet. And I am ok today. A little teary, but not too sick.

I have my first appointment next Wednesday. In 3 days. I am sure it will be alot of preliminary and introductory stuff. Also I have to find out how often the appointments will be. My health care and subsequent referrals are through Indian Health Care - Public Health Services. All services are contracted, and I have no idea who the therapist is, or how I will like this person. I may have to research that person a little. See, I feel like I am flying blind. When I asked for a referral(due to anxiety) from my primary care physician, he said he would make an appointment with a psychiatrist. NO. I will not take meds. So, I had to explain that to him, and he finally made the referral to a psychologist. I am prepared for the possibility that this health care plan may not have the resources I need.

"Would you like to take a break for a while to ease off and let your emotions settle down an little?"

No, it's ok. I have this ability to do that if necessary- remember me telling you how I can shut off? I can shut down, zone out - it is a defense mechanism I developed. So go for it. I really need to know why I felt the way I did about this man. Why I feel the way I do. I have to say that if I continue to be honest with myself. The way I feel. This was the most difficult 6 months I have ever endured, because in choosing to not just go out and "get me some", I had to fight the urge to call Casinoman all the time. I still want to. I feel guilty for feeling this way since I have started seeing John again. I still feel guilty and I need some closure, and if not, some understanding and acceptance.

Here's a nausea update. I recognised that last night when I was writing it. Just as soon as I had that memory and felt the queasy ball of dread under my sternum, I made the connection. Fear. shame. Betrayal. I just had to finish the post I started and get to bed so I could settle down.

I had finally found my perfect lover, someone who liked me the person, my mind, my heart, and the pu**y. It seemed that he accepted everything about me- for a while. When he said that word, I felt ashamed enough to need to cover up.

Tez? From now on when you post to me, I will let you know if I think it will take me a while to answer you. OK? Please don't be hesitant with me- I can handle it- If I back away from it, I know that I need to come back to it. It just means that I need to think about it. That it might be one of those taboo thoughts that I have to circle around before I touch. OK? It's really refreshing to have someone to talk about this "dark, secret, unspeakable" side of me, and not be judged.

And here is an energy update. Because I released some more pain last night, today I got the entire wretched front porch project finished and if I wanted to, I could dance out there now. At this moment, I am scanning my genealogy charts to save them to disk and eliminate the paper. Storage / Feng-shui stuff. So- I'm glad for this opportunity. I really want to work through this stuff. I have other projects and goals that I have been putting off and making excuses not to do.

Thanks for being so sweet

Bevdee

March 5, 2007
8:50 pm
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BevDee.

Thanks for your thanks. I don't think Free would agree with you. 🙂

OK ...

I feel a little apprehensive right now. Once you start in therapy, I will feel much better. At least then you will have some one to help you through emotional upheavals. I think that I am probing very tender emotional memories here. That's all very nice and interesting for me - but I'm not paying the emotional price.

BTW, I hope that I am not giving you answers so much as accompanying you on your journey of self-discovery. I am like a companion on a tourist bus pointing out what I think is significant scenery worth looking at.

I've put so much on the back burner and am running with what I think is a payload seam in the shaft down to what might be debilitating 'pay dirt'. Following that seam, you said:

"Here's a nausea update. I recognised that last night when I was writing it. Just as soon as I had that memory and felt the queasy ball of dread under my sternum, I made the connection. Fear. shame. Betrayal. I just had to finish the post I started and get to bed so I could settle down."

Fear, shame and betrayal!

What thoughts or images triggered off the fear? "He doesn't really respect me and love me at all! I've been conned by him!"

Or was it the sexual initiation/molestation emotionally revisited?

I'm guessing!

What made you ashamed? Was it the thought of sexual acts themselves? Was it the thought that he had judged you all along as being not a 'nice' girl suitable for a long term partner?

What were your thoughts then that made you feel that Casinoman had betrayed you?

Then you followed with:

"I had finally found my perfect lover, someone who liked me the person, my mind, my heart, and the pu**y. It seemed that he accepted everything about me- for a while. When he said that word, I felt ashamed enough to need to cover up."

I want to draw your attention to the phrase:

"It seemed that he accepted everything about me - for a while."

So you felt that he had withdrawn that acceptance? Is that what you felt?

If so, it appears to me that there is much about yourself, your body, your desires, your psyche that you either suspect or fear or believe is unacceptable to so-called 'nice' men and 'respectable' women but especially to your parents. Is this so?

Would you like to look at what these 'things' are; to bring them up before your consciousness into the light of day without fear of judgment of any kind?

This 'fear of judgment' can keep much of our psyche locked away from our conscious mind. Freedom from such fear is primary in enabling us to share our innermost thoughts and desires etc with others, IMHO.

Once many years ago while blind drunk, I tried to shag a big female dog without any success for obvious reasons. I harbored terrible feelings of guilt, remorse and shame for a year or two into my sobriety. Then one day while going to an AA meeting by car with another guy I trusted , I blurted this 'horrific' secret out. He burst out laughing. I said very hurt and indignantly: "What's so funny" To which he replied: "I once tried to fuck a chook(chicken) when I was pissed." We both roared laughing. Immediately all the shame went. I realized that no matter what I thought, did, or whatever, many others had done a hell of a lot worse. Beastiality is not my thing but if it were, I would accept these desires unconditionally as being a part of my conditioning. I would not act out such predilections if I had them for several reasons. I've done much worse - though not sexually. Not much that I've done or think has much power over me today.

Having said all that, what we do with consenting humans is nobody's business to sit in judgment upon, except our and our partner's business that is.

However, harsh and negative judgments by others harbor the inherent threat of expulsion from important networks in our lives with them as a consequence.

These external networks have complimentary internal psychological 'networks in our unconscious'. Our parent images, scripts and messages inhabit this unconscious networks. We fear internal expulsion too, IMHO; that sometimes involves disguised self-rejection!

The threat of such inner and outer expulsions can bring on great fear that can result in nausea and physical pain! Some even believe that such psychological disturbances can bring on physical illnesses, aches and pains, abnormal muscle tensions etc!

You are on the right track BevDee, - IMHO at least!

You have suggested that I am a lady killer. My partner might agree I suspect! But I'm not!

I have given that much thought. I've puzzled over why there are a few ladies overly 'interested' in me.

I put it down to a few things that have developed over time. One of those things is 'social competence' and the ability to dance. Another is a reasonable body. Another is honesty. Another is openness, and another is caring enough to really listen when a lady is sharing with me something about her life. Last but not least, I have a passion and a zest for life, not immediately obvious in my writing style, that holds 'promise' in bed. If I win a raffle at a dance, I leave no one in doubt who won in a very uninhibited way.

This passion in bed is what I found with Ms. Sneaky just as you did with Casinoman. I liberated Ms. Sneaky to really 'let go' sexually just as Casino man did for you. Can I do this for all women? I don't think so. It takes two people with dovetailing 'neuroses' to tango to the heights of great passion in bed IMHO! I'm no ladykiller that's for sure!

I suspect that you found the wanton and uninhibited passion in the Casinoman very seductive indeed. Combining this with his unjudging behavior and your need to have total acceptance from him, you found him a great turn on for you. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you. If the emotional pain is greater than the pleasure then it may be wiser to quit while you are ahead.

However, the Casinoman lacks something very important to you. What is that? His inability to commit to you or anyone else? Or is it that you see in him a self-centeredness that promises a rough ride in any relationship with him?

Can you pin-point exactly what your aims and objectives are for going to a psychotherapist/psychologist?

You aske me a question. You wrote:

"You said "Self-acceptance does not imply a lack of desire to change. I never made one iota of change to my drinking habits as a practicing alcoholic until 34 years ago, when in a deep 'rock bottom', I recognized that I was an alcoholic and uncritically accepted that fact about myself." The end of denial. Was there finally freedom with the end of denial, Tez? Or at least the beginning of freedom?"

No it wasn't the end of denial - it was the beginning of the end of denial. Yes it was the beginning of obtaining my freedom from my own inner judgmental 'tyrant', my harsh 'task master' - my inner parent images.

Eric Berne in his transactional analysis model of human interactions has an inner parent, adult and child. Theoretically the adult ought to be in charge for freedom to flourish and Maslow's self-actualization to be reached. Of course the inner child in us empowers our drive and ability to have fun and our inner parents tend to put the brakes on to our advantage sometimes. Reaching compromise is arguably the ideal. My inner parents have long since become my inner wise guides. I am still grappling with my inner child who screams for its mother, Ms. Sneaky - especially since the telephoned 'love song'. "Mommy needs me, wants me and is calling me". Hmmm! I suspect like(but I don't know) your casinoman, Ms Sneaky is very good at 'faking' to get what she wants without knowing or considering the price tag.

March 5, 2007
9:07 pm
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Tez

I will read your post of 03-05 thoroughly in a minute. I've had a lot of memories come up - stuff I had pushed back. There's more about intimacy with the Casinoman that I thought about last night when I couldn't sleep- again.

Here it is-

Before I met him, I had the casual thing going on with the Youngman, and hooked up with him every weekend or so. My attraction to the hot youngman was because he was 10 years younger than me, very peasant and mannerly, really nice looking, and I was feeling - older. Mortal, and I had had a lot of sad things happen to me in the year before. A good friend of mine died at the age of 36, leaving her fatherless daughter. My nana was dying, and I had started talking to my mom again after a 3 year silence, but the conversations were all centered around my sissy and her addiction. The Youngman was strictly itch-scratching- at least for me. Generic sex, although I would never tell him that. He was fun to hang out with.

I dropped the young man once I met Casinoman.

Another thing about Casinoman - Yeah, he really liked pushing those ladylike limits of mine. He would grab hold of my ass in public, Or run his hand up the back of my shirt, smiling at me, to see how much restraint I had. To see if my back would arch. This was the toughest, in a restaurant he would sit across from me and stretch his leg out so his foot rested between my legs. I would stand or sit there as if nothing was going on. He really liked the contrast -even my clothes. He liked denim and leather on the outside and lace on the inside.

There are other things that still stand out in my mind. When I would …perform oral sex- he liked me on my knees, and he is the only person that I ever allowed to pull my hair. He did this when I teased him too much and he would grab the back of my hair to jerk my head and control rhythm and depth. He was never too rough, it was always just enough. He always insisted that a window be open, the shades open. That was his turn-on, thinking someone might be watching. He was never threatened by toys, and some men are. (Luc especially). He loved the toys, and was more than a spectator, he jumped right in there to be sure that my satisfaction was complete. He can't claim the backdoor cherry, but he is the man that had the patience and finesse to make that pleasurable for me. One night, I had like this triple header, orgasm and the intensity of this brought tears to my eyes. He literally kissed those tears and held me, and said, "*Bevdee*, It’s really ok to like it"

I felt at home with him. I felt as if I had come home. And - when we had found common ancestors way up the family tree, even though we were not closely related, the cousin thing turned HIM on. (I know!!)

The other night I had that nauseating shame moment revisited. I had real uneasy dreams when I finally went to sleep, and I spent the entire next day wondering if it had been all my fault- for misunderstanding a word and the context in which it was used. But it wasn't . The most puzzling to me was his babysitter predicament. There were times that he cancelled because he had no sitter. The only person he trusted to stay with his 13 year old and 10 year old was his niece, and she was undependable. Although his brother lived next door, Casinoman was adamant about this, because his brother and sister-in-law partied alot. He never asked me to spend an evening with him and his sons. I asked him once and he told me that he was very particular about not introducing women to his boys too soon after meeting them. After I was nasty, I started obsessing about this. About him being particular. About me not being particularly good enough to meet his sons. But I still saw him, waiting to be found acceptable to spend time with his boys, until I was introduced to my niceman.

So last August, about a year after I quit seeing him, I learned that he was seeing a woman, and she spent the weekends with him and his sons. Ouch.

Last summer, just after I stopped seeing Niceman, when his wife came back, I started getting the voicemails and the emails from Casinoman. Telling me he thinks about me all the time. I finally emailed him back and told him to just cut it out- if he has a woman that stays with him, he really didn't have time for me. He responded in an email that she was a lousy lay- lying still beneath him, and that he thought of me to keep an erection and finish it. T. M. I., goddammit. He told me he felt awful because his sons really like her, and she cooks and buys stuff for them.

Ouch. It hurts so much to perceive the message that I am good enough for unforgettable sex, good enough to fuck any way he wants to fuck me, but not good enough to drive 25 miles to his house and open a can of Spaghetti-Os for his boys.

I did a little detective work, and I know what she looks like, and I just don't understand.

Even after all this time, there is still an angry angry voice - not a whisper, in my head that shouted "Fuck you for thinking I am not good enough to be around your children. For raising me up and hurling me down with that word. Fuck you and be damned to your life of deadfish fucking, you could have had me." And because that is not *nice* or *gracious* or *ladylike*, or *accepting*, I feel demeaned for not being able to rise above the pain and outrage that I recognise. I still hate him sometimes, but when the pain and emotions simmer a little, I want him bad. I'm not stupid. I had some awareness at the time of what was going on with me, and with him. I have more now than before, and it still bugs the hell out of me.

After I felt so betrayed by the nasty comment, I went out with a couple of guys I met on the personals. It got weird, and it scared me. Just the responses to my responses were weird and a little scary. One guy slipped under my radar and I met him for dinner. Before we got through the salad, he announced, "You're a good lookin woman,*Bevdee* I would like to handcuff you to the bed and whoop your ass." I looked at him and very quietly said,"You're not the man that's gonna do that to me." then left the restaurant. It wasn't the handcuffs, it was the ass whoopin part that scared me. Plus it was rude. Other people heard him and I was furious. Other people heard and some laughed, and I was so mortified, I fled the resraurant.

I have told you, I really "misbehaved" with the casino man in the casino and in his truck in the parking lot. I didn't care who saw. I can't tell you what the difference is - I just don't know.

March 5, 2007
10:29 pm
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Oh Tez!!

First of all - this dog thang? Farm boys - *tip* cows. And that doesn't mean knocking them over. That is not that unusual.

You ask "So you felt that he had withdrawn that acceptance? Is that what you felt?"

I don't remember exactly. Probably. My perception of that word when he said it, and every time I thought about it afterward just took my breath away. I know that is because I can't remember not feeling dirty and ashamed. I always held back, and with him I did not have to. Then the situation with his children-

I felt trifling for doing it, but I made this mental list of my positive attributes and asked myself why he could not see that. asked myself why, if he could rub his foot on my fancy in a restaurant, and I never visibly responded, he could think I would not be circumspect enough to be near his sons. These are questions I cannot ask him. I can't bring myself to ask him, because I am afraid of revealing any more of myself to him.

"What thoughts or images triggered off the fear? "He doesn't really respect me and love me at all! I've been conned by him!"" I never thought he loved me- he made it very clear. He told me "I don’t want to have to say "I love you" to get laid, and I like you because you don't make me say it" And I didn't. But after nasty,I hated that I thought loved him and he didn't even respect me. So it was respect. O don't know if I can truthfully say I believe he conned me.

"What made you ashamed? Was it the thought of sexual acts themselves?" No.

"Was it the thought that he had judged you all along as being not a 'nice' girl suitable for a long term partner?" Yes- Not a nice girl. That hurt because I had been thinking I was so wonderful. One night, during the relationship with him, at home alone, I lost the control I always strove to maintain, even to myself, and cried and I remember thinking, why can't anyone love me?

"If so, it appears to me that there is much about yourself, your body, your desires, your psyche that you either suspect or fear or believe is unacceptable to so-called 'nice' men and 'respectable' women but especially to your parents. Is this so?" Yes

Therapy? I can't pinpoint anything exactly, Tez!! I want to talk about the molestation- hopefully s/he can help me work through that. I believe that is why I was so often distraught when I lived with the roommate and her sex-offender husband. I'm very nervous. It's so much harder for me to say these things face to face.

And "Would you like to look at what these 'things' are; to bring them up before your consciousness into the light of day without fear of judgment of any kind?" Yes, I would.

"You have suggested that I am a lady killer. My partner might agree I suspect! But I'm not!" A man that listens is such a turn-on. So many men don't realise that. You know, I want to tell you something- you underestimate yourself. I know this because of a poem. Ladykiller.

"If the emotional pain is greater than the pleasure then it may be wiser to quit while you are ahead." I think I answered that in my last post. At least to myself. What I want to do is work past that pain of the rejection. Real or imagined. It's really not as bad as it used to be, but he just keeps emailing and messaging me and it is really an effort NOT to respond. I want it to be over. I want all this destructively sloshing emotion that is in me to be over.

I am thinking about the Niceman told me his wife was back and how I felt rejected at first- but that wasn't the case at all. I had to sit down and actually write out the thoughts and feelings I was having and examine them. I proved to myself that I can think rationally, not always emotionally, and I am pleased with that small progress.

I'm real tired, and I think I might be able to sleep tonight.

Talk to you later--

Bevdee

March 6, 2007
7:41 pm
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Hi BevDee.

Thanks for your great, frank, honest and open posts.

I read and re-read both of your previous posts very carefully. ALL of it was very interesting. I think that I am starting to get the picture of your inner psyche much more clearly now. But maybe I'm not! If I focus on one part only, it is not because the rest is of no importance to me. It is because I see the very 'kernel' in that part.

My difficulty is that if I see something very significant, I have to ask myself the deep question: "Do I see this ... as significant because it is pointing to something inside myself that is important to and for me or am I genuinely seeing BevDee's psyche and making this value judgment on the basis of what I think is important for her alone or both?" So, if I am wrong it could well be the foremost i.e. my self-centeredness that gives your particular words significance rather than just a misunderstanding on my part. As you can see, I am learning a lot about me as we go along, even if the focus is on you.

You wrote:

"... Plus it was rude. Other people heard him and I was furious. Other people heard and some laughed, and I was so mortified, I fled the resraurant.

I have told you, I really "misbehaved" with the casino man in the casino and in his truck in the parking lot. I didn't care who saw. I can't tell you what the difference is - I just don't know."

This for me is (was) the 'kernel' of your last two posts.

For me this highlighted portion was(is) absolutely critical in my recovery from my addiction to both Ms. Stinky, Ms. Sneaky and my addiction to turning without to seek what needs to be found within to feel good about being me!

I is so important that I will repeat what you wrote, when you said:

"I can't tell you what the difference is - I just don't know."

IMHO this is the 'open sesame' key to the lock that will open the door allowing you to see your 'inner child' in a way that you have never seen her before. This vision of her might make you want to embrace that little girl with a love, tenderness and affection that might be so overwhelming that you might want to cry for all the years that you have deprived her of that love.

Now, if you like we can get down to that journey into your psyche.

What is it about casinoman that is so different from the Youngman, the Cousin, the 'niceman' or any other 'take it or leave it' sexual relationship that you might have had.

You need to go much deeper into what you had in your mind than the physical aspects of the sex acts themselves. Take your mind back to the most powerful and memorable sex acts that put you into ecstacy with casinoman and ask yourself: "Exactly what is is about these acts that lifted me onto cloud nine?"

If your mind answers you by saying: "I had triple orgasms of course!" or "Oh it felt so goooood!" don't accept those shallow answers as final.

Replay the mind's 'movie' of that sex act again and again and watch your mind as it watches your repetitive instant replays. While watching the 'movie' replay, question your mind thus: "What is it about Casino man that empowers him to give me this arousal level? What is it about him that I am seeing and focusing on right now during this action replay? Why is what I am seeing so arousing for me?"

Then look at your answer and then say: "Yes, but what is what I am seeing and focussing on about Casinoman that is so arousing, doing for me non-sexually right now?"

In my experience BevDee, the mind wants to pull us back up to shallower answers all the time. It tires of the game. It tries to distract us. It trys to protect itself by keeping from us that which it doesn't want us to consciously know. If we can recognize these evasive ploys and know the difference between the depth levels of our answers and plumb for deeper answers, then we can 'mine' away for the 'vision' of which I speak above. It's alright not to be alright at any instant. It's OK to be like what we find in our mind.

My knowledge about the theories of the various schools of psychotherapy, including Family of Origin Theories, Inner Child Theories etc are practically worthless without the 'vision'! That was my experience!

I was being counseled by my Counselor/Coordinator when I was at Teacher's College doing my Diploma of Teaching. I was absolutely addicted to Ms. Stinky(not to be confused with Ms. Sneaky) then. I had been through many sessions with two therapists with little success prior to seeing this counselor. I couldn't concentrate on what the lecturers were presenting. My mind was unable to function. I was obsessing about Ms. Stinky - period. However the counselor was in aworse mess than I was for the very same reason! It was the blind leading the blind.

In seeking to understand my psyche and to free myself from this person addiction, I enrolled for and completed a degree at our state's most prestigous uni, majoring in Psychology. I still was not much better off. I had a hell of a lot more theoretical and practical knowledge and experience. But it wasn't until I actually took the journey into my psyche of which I speak above, that I was able to 'see' the 'vision' of which I speak.

Then a lot of the prior knowledge and experiences fell into place as it were.

I have and still am travelling this road of self discovery for myself and have helped others do the same with some success. I have 'found' the 'vision' of my inner child of which I speak above. I helped my sister do the same. My sister was highly addicted to another 'Luc'. She successfully freed herself, 'saw' herself at depth, went on to eventually set up a highly successful therapy practice that has her taking on clients world wide by email and phone at very good rates of remuneration as I write. Her success levels are such that she no longer takes bookings. She is booked out well over a year ahead. I do not take the credit for her success. But, at the core of her strategies lies this need to 'see' the inner self and to choose to act out of love not fear in everything we do. This especially applies to what we do with and to ourselves. I do not claim anything like 100% success. I don't try to rate my success % wise. But I know that I am 'on top of' my latest problem with Ms. Sneaky, my most recent addiction from which I have successfully extricated myself. Had she not a similar addiction to me then it would be plain sailing for me indeed. But after more than two years from the parting of the ways and her still making phone calls and playing over the phone unrequited love song etc, etc, she exhibits every sign of an addiction to a person - moi. Only my 'inner vision' of myself and my appropriate 'self-parenting' keeps me on an even keel, travelling well and not rushing back into bed with her, fiance or no fiance.

I have no illusion of a 'cure' in the sense that my psyche would be completely transformed! To transform would imply becoming a totally different person. That won't happen without severe lesions to my amygdala and then I would end up like the lab mouse with the lesioned amygdala that cuddled up to the lab cat and was eaten. I'm relatively happy now. This 'relativity' is a function of my 'adult' self-parenting me, as opposed to letting my 'parent' messages and parent scripts parent me or letting my 'inner child' run wild. In the past my inner 'adult' was almost powerless and more like a slave.

At night at the end of each day, I hope you can close your eyes when your head hits the pillow and you can see yourself in your favorite 'safe place'. I hope you can realize that all your cares of that day are over and that there is nothing more to think about or do in that regard. I hope that you can fully realize that tomorrow is another day with its own problems contained therein. In your 'safe place', cuddling your inner self at least, I hope you can drift off into the deepest of sleeps only to awake refreshed, feeling vibrant, alive and full of energy.

There's a lot to digest in this post, BevDee. Perhaps toooooo much information. I hope it helps.

March 6, 2007
9:01 pm
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Tez

I can't answer your questions tonight. I am just too godamighty tired. I haven't slept well since I posted to you Mar 4.

Since I was honest with myself about the way I really feel- well, as honest as I know how to be right now, I can't believe how my emotions have progressed.

I got nauseous that night. The next day I was tearful yet energetic. Yesterday I was a little queasy, but still felt the need to get some more of it out. Today? I was driving (90% of my job) and I had to pull over on the shoulder of the highway and sobbed. I wailed and wailed, and my first thought was oh no, my makeup is gonna be all fucked up, and I have two more homes to go to Then I got angry with myself for being so vain and appearance conscious.

As I cried on the side of the highway, I thought of you saying you were concerned about me, and how I had assured you that everything was ok- remember? How did you know?

I told you I could handle it? I'm a tough girl. I'm not. Without all the self-deception I'm not tough like I used to be, and it is really pretty scary.

So, I want your opinion? 3 days after a big emotional upchuck - is that normal? To lose it? I am wondering if I have some flat affect or delayed reaction syndrome or something - you know - rare- that few people have.

What I was thinking about at the time I started crying was how I had wrapped all this other stuff around all my pain from the time I was born. Lies to myself. How my anger has served to buffer me from the pain. How my smart- assedness has helped to deflect possible pain. I use it to push people back. I have taken away a lot of the outer trappings - possessions and status purchases. I did that before for pride and some kind of prestige, I guess. I don't buy expensive clothes or other items anymore, because I really don't believe that when I am lying on my deathbed, I will say, "gosh I wish I had shelled out the money for designer sunglasses" That stuff doesn't matter. I have shed some of the outer trappings of pretense for my family and about my family. I don't have that dishonest security of unhealthy codependent platonic relationships anymore.

All these external things that I was taught or told myself were important to my image (illusion) are gone. Now I am losing the illusion that I created for myself. Included in that illusion is that my mother doesn't matter- she doesn't affect me- OR MY SEX LIFE. I just don’t want this to be true and I know it. I want to downplay her importance as I always have and call her a crazy mean hateful bitch, and make fun of her, and I can't do that anymore. I tried and that makes me sad, too. I know the answer to one of the questions lies in this paragraph, and that too - just creeps me out.

I haven't cried for years, Tez. For almost a year, I have had to buy waterproof mascara (appearance again), because I never know when it is going to hit me. I have wished it were menopause, but I have had that checked and that is not the case. The last time I cried like this, 18 years ago, I was on Prozac, which the doctor assured me would release the tears I could not release. For the past year, I have been doing all this releasing without the benefit of chemicals. I find that kind of amazing. I also find it amazing that I can laugh at times and function normally, as if on auto-pilot, during the day. This is different of me too, because in the past, when I was blue or down, I would hide myself away - call in sick or cancel plans.

Ok- I rambled again. Thanks for your last post. I will think on it until I can do it. Honestly, it is really so difficult to imagine or remember having sex with Casinoman. Sometimes it hurts me bad to allow those thoughts. I have tried so hard to push them back. Since I am tired tonight, I'm gonna give the little girl a break. I have the therapy appt tomorrow - wish me ?? Luck? I hope it is a good one.

I appreciate you.

Bevdee

March 7, 2007
3:29 pm
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bevdee
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Tez

Here's another update! My therapy appointment was rescheduled because the therapist is sick today. Now I have to wait 2 weeks. After a good night's sleep last night, I was in a good mood and sort of - ready for it. I have decided I am going to forge ahead, but trust my instincts- like when I need to back up a little.

Talk to you in a little bit.

March 7, 2007
4:20 pm
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bevdee

I'm sorry to hear about the therapy postponement. It's disappointing - but such is life.

You said:

"After a good night's sleep last night, I was in a good mood and sort of - ready for it."

Please don't miss what this is telling you.

All the emotional upheavals and the work that you have done so far is paying off. Your mind is settling down without meds - that's great! You are well and truly on the way.

Please feel free to go at your own pace.

I have this mind 'cave' high up on a cliff overlooking the sea. The only way into this safe place is by a rope ladder from the sea shore. I pull the ladder up after me. In this dry cave I have clean straw, a fire that has a hole above it just big enough to let the smoke out and to circulate fresh air in. In this cave, I am perfectly safe and free from all the cares of this world.

I found this cave in my mind when I was 16 years old and in a lot of trouble where I worked. It was lunch time and I was sitting alone in the staff lunch room in a state of anxiety. Suddenly out of seemingly no where this cave came to my mind. I started some creative visualization and soon had my 'safe place'. I have many uses for this imaginery cave.

Do you have a 'safe place' in your mind to go to at night when 'letting go' of the day and allowing the mind to slip into sleep consciousness?

Perhaps you might like to construct a 'mental hut' on high stilts in the rainforest next to a babbling brook or a water fall - a safe place for you?

March 7, 2007
5:36 pm
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bevdee
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Tez

My place - of course is a lake. Lake with a waterfall. It is a place that came to my mind once when I was hypnotised. Just seeing it in my mind's eye makes me feel safe. I can't draw, but I see it so clearly I believe I could reproduce it. Thank you for reminding me.

A cave? Interesting.

Here's something else that is interesting now that I think of it. This morning, I had decided to give my mind a rest and wait for the appointment. When I got the news about the rescheduled appointment, I started to get angry, but decided I didn't have the energy to do that. I started journaling again. Having taken the afternoon off work, I simply came home and took a long nap.

I am working on some more stuff, and it still revolves around C-man and libido, but I really need to get this out. of. me. You are right when you say this -"In my experience BevDee, the mind wants to pull us back up to shallower answers all the time. It tires of the game. It tries to distract us. It trys to protect itself by keeping from us that which it doesn't want us to consciously know."

I am a master at this. Perhaps this is why I have taken to writing all my thoughts while driving (that-not-looking-at-the-tablet-while-writing in the passenger seat) so I can be so easily distracted. Sometimes I feel such a strange tug or confused yearning because of my own thoughts I automatically reach over and turn the radio on, or pull the car over to the side of the highway. All this to distract myself from my thoughts.

Thank you for the encouragement. I was starting to worry that I was a true head-case.

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