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Tez-I have more weird questions
January 9, 2007
9:50 pm
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bevdee
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Tez,

I wondered how to say this - but I have had some really interesting thoughts on unconscious minds communicating.

About a week after my grinchy holiday, about 3AM one morning, I awakened from a dream about the Casinoman. It was a very vivid sexual dream. (Now this part I finally understand. The fear and anger that was triggered during my visit home, and the subsequent emotion that I have had to wade through probably caused the arousal)

But! The next afternoon, I checked my email, and there was one from him, dated and timed at about the same time of night I awakened from the dream. I had not answered the emails or phone calls from a month ago, and have had no contact with him for months.

This has happened periodically since I met him 2 years ago, but what struck me this time is - what has been going on with ME to cause the emotions to surface, the fear and arousal, then dreaming of wanting and having him. I had not consciously thought of him- I have not given him any air time in my head.

His email telling me that he wants to, but can't stop thinking about me causes me to wonder at my and his minds communicating. He has never used these "lines" before. (If you are worrying about me, don't. I am not going to get back in touch with him.) Why does this communication seem to occur at these most emotional times? I have been trying to think back on other times, but I'm drawing a blank so far.

It seems that his mind is "reading mine"- as if I (or my template) is putting off some signals. I am left wondering if it is that I am putting out some signal- or if he just received the signal, if there is such a thing going on. Could he and I actually be that attuned to each other? Does this make any kind of sense?

Here is where it gets even more strange. The following day at the office, flowers were waiting for me.. I'm thinking "well good lord, he never sent me flowers before" but no! They were from the Niceman, who I have not heard from in quite a while. No message, just his name signed. I'm wondering if it is now some kind of telepathic triangle.

Do you have any thoughts on this? Has anything like this ever happened to you?

January 10, 2007
9:30 am
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gayle
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bev- My bestfriend/boyfriend and I do that alot. There were times when we were taking a break and not talking and he would be on my mind and then I would hear from him out of the blue. Over the years it has happened enough where I'll tell him to get out of my head. There have been times when I had this overwhelming urge to call him and when I did he was upset at the time and was about to call me when the phone rang. One time we even had a very similar dream the same night and each of us were in it. This is my experience, I think its very possible and when it happens with us we call it Love Magic:) Gayle

January 10, 2007
7:29 pm
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Bevdee.

Wow! What a dream. You naughty, naughty girl letting Casinoman have his way with you in your dreams. 🙂

Seriously though, your dream and awake experiences are very interesting and not all that unusual I would think.

I think that I may have told you about my own experiences with a woman with whom I was obsessed and with whom I had terminated all contact after a torrid 18mth sexual relationship. I called her Ms. Stinky - not to be confused with Ms. Sneaky with whom I was in a much more recent relationship of the same kind.

Anyway, I used to dream about Ms. Stinky quite often. Then I would inexplicably run into her soon after in crowded shopping malls, banks, just about anywhere. The odds of this happening time and time again were about a million to one or more.

Then one night, I dreamt that I had Ms. Stinky in the front passenger seat of my car and her mother in the back seat. In my dream I stopped the car miles from anywhere and reached across to the front passenger door, opened it and with my foot pushed Ms. Stinky out of my car. I reached over to the back seat opened the back door and yelled at her mother to get out also. I then drove off. After that dream I never ran into Ms. Sneaky again.

To understand these strange occurrences one first has to understand the nature of consciousness.

My understanding goes something like this:

1. Consciousness levels vary considerably over time. We can experience heightened states of consciousness and sometimes our consciousness levels drop below that of our normal awareness.

2. Consciousness does not depend upon the brain for its existence but it interacts with the brain maintaining the brain's existence as well as being the recipient of its output. Death terminates the brain functioning by the ordinary mind 'letting go' of both conscious and unconscious control of the brain.

3. Consciousness is a function of the ordinary mind inextricably linked to the very Essence of Mind.

4. All minds, yours and mine included are based upon this limitless, unbounded, all pervading Essence of Mind that underpins all things including energy and matter itself.

5. Communications between ordinary minds is quite natural. Analogously speaking, my telephone phone communicates with your telephone phone via some central exchange that powers the telephone system. The Essence of Mind is Suchness; that is, that which 'Is'. All emanates from 'It' in a 'two way' interchange - analogously speaking again. However, because of the self imposed boundaries of our ordinary minds, our consciousness tends to terminate at these ordinary mind created boundaries. It is our 'egos' that fights so vehmently to maintain and protect these boundaries of our imaginary selves.

6. In our sleep our 'egos' tend to 'weaken' in their boundary patrolling vigilance. Thus when the yearning of two unconscious ordinary minds to communicate and to be intimately 'joined', rises to a sufficient level both boundaries are temporarily breached and thus your and my dream experiences occurs.

7. Apart from either being in the womb or a pregnant mother, sexual intercourse is the most intimate physical contact with another human being that we can experience.

8. Our mind's previous conditioning predisposes us to crave that intimate connectedness with a human being who is the psychological image of our mothers or of someone with whom we have had previous intimate bonding in this life or a previous one. At an unconscious level mind streams 'recognize' other mind streams and are attracted to or repelled from each other depending on past experiences(karma).

Now to your situation:

The casinoman may not have been asleep, as you already know. He may have been indulging in some very vivid sexual fantasies involving you that you picked up on and acted out together in your interconnected minds.

All I can say is that if I were you I would be very careful. The above experience of yours tells me that maybe in the deepest recesses of your mind you have not finished with Casinoman yet. In your dream, from what you wrote, your mind did not seem to me to be just a passive, reluctant recipient of Casinoman's sexual acts, it was an active participant - wasn't it? You enjoyed your dream experience very much, did you not???

In your dream, it sounds to me like your dreaming mind encouraged Casinoman's mind to try to make contact in order to make your dream experience your awake experience. Is this a bad thing? Well, if it results in a toxic relationship that degrades you and/or him and lessens you and/or him as human beings, in your own estimation, then it is not good. He may front you somewhere, somehow, sometime when you are vulnerable to his advances. Whoopie for a while - then back on the proverbial hook!

Do you have control over your dreaming mind? I would suggest that you would have the same control over your dreaming mind as you have over your unconscious mind.

How do you have control over your unconscious mind? By making it conscious.

How's that done? Meditation, meditation and more meditation. Practice makes perfect. This does not mean sitting on your bottom in the lotus position navel gazing. There are many forms of meditation, some more effective than others.

I take 1.5 hours walks at 5 oclock in the morning quite regularly, sometimes every day. I practice 'walking' meditation during this time. I bring my consciousness to a focus on the instant. I feel my body, I watch my mind. I let the thoughts come and go as they please without grabbing onto them or grasping at them. I see my mind/body/world interplay. I learn about my mind and slowly I start to get a glimpse of the inperturbability of the the deepest mind, the Essence of Mind. Somehow these glimpses seem to pervade my emotional states lessening my cravings to seek these same feelings through external means; i.e. sex with Ms. Sneaky, Ms. Stinky or another of their ilk. It's like I gain 'control' by not trying to gain control but just by mindfully observing. I know that's wierd and doesn't seem to make any sense to the ordinary mind. The Buddhists call it 'mindfulness'. This is a deep topic and one of the 8 steps on the Buddha's 'eightfold path'.

Phew! Having reread my post, I see that it is a whopping great example of sermonizing without any reference to any God of any kind. Hmmmm!! Sorry about that.

Love yuh, sis!

January 10, 2007
7:30 pm
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Hi Gayle.

Love yuh 'love magic'.

January 11, 2007
9:08 am
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bevdee
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Tez

Yeah, that's me- naughty naughty. And I didn't even tell you the dream! You probably couldn't handle all the details....

"However, because of the self imposed boundaries of our ordinary minds, our consciousness tends to terminate at these ordinary mind created boundaries. It is our 'egos' that fights so vehmently to maintain and protect these boundaries of our imaginary selves."

I wonder if my boundaries are changing slightly. I have told you before of the "stripping away" I have tried to do - my perceptions of my "self" - appearance, job status, possessions, etc. I have also been told that I am a thin barrier person. I dream vividly and hypnose easily. I've always had precognitive dreams - it runs in the family!! I rarely watch TV anymore, or listen to the radio. I am finding I prefer silence.

"you have not finished with Casinoman yet. In your dream, from what you wrote, your mind did not seem to me to be just a passive, reluctant recipient of Casinoman's sexual acts, it was an active participant - wasn't it? You enjoyed your dream experience very much, did you not??? " Well. Yeah. I spose I gave as good as I got. Finished with him? I want to be.

"In your dream, it sounds to me like your dreaming mind encouraged Casinoman's mind to try to make contact in order to make your dream experience your awake experience."

Well. Maybe? But to be fair? Maybe it was his fantasizing mind that caused me to dream about him? Nah, there goes my defensiveness!! It WAS probably me.

But the strangest part is that I have never dreamed about my cowboy like that- and he sent me yellow roses the follwing day- (he is still such a niceman). There has been very little contact between us, so this just makes me wonder what the heck HE was picking up on. It freaks me out, and I want to KNOW, but I am being careful. I haven't responded to either of them.

You say - "Do you have control over your dreaming mind? I would suggest that you would have the same control over your dreaming mind as you have over your unconscious mind."

Here is something that has happened to me alot - see what you make of this. When I have "bad", frightening dreams, I will awaken. I have to get out of bed and move around to dispel the dream. Because this has happened so often, I know that if I lie there and go back to sleep too soon, the dream will resume at the point it left off when I awakened. Like a paused movie. Most of the time, I will get up and walk around, go outside, but I am not always able to get the dream out of my head, and it will resume. This is the only way I can think of that I have controlled a dream, but? only retrospectively. I make myself think of other things before I lie back down.

"It's like I gain 'control' by not trying to gain control but just by mindfully observing. I know that's wierd and doesn't seem to make any sense to the ordinary mind. The Buddhists call it 'mindfulness'. This is a deep topic and one of the 8 steps on the Buddha's 'eightfold path'."

Thank you - I will have to think on this some more. I have been thinking alot lately about my fear and not running from it. I want to be able to face or observe the fear without becoming angry. And I think about painful memories surfacing, and how to "allow" that without throwing out the usual defenses around them as I have in the past. To block the pain.

".....sermonizing without any reference to any God of any kind. Hmmmm!! Sorry about that." No need to be sorry- I love it.

Tez, how have YOU been?

January 11, 2007
9:11 am
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Gayle

Thanks for your post!! Down here we call it mojo!!

January 11, 2007
5:18 pm
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Synchronicity.........it happens!

(The birds and little fishies do it all the time...its natural 🙂

January 11, 2007
5:53 pm
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BevDee.

Thanks for your post and your thoughts.

You said:

"Maybe it was his fantasizing mind that caused me to dream about him? Nah, there goes my defensiveness!! It WAS probably me."

A radio transmitter can transmit away with as much output power as it likes and no well designed radio receiver will receive anything unless it is tuned to the same frequency as the transmitter.

Similarly, in the case of your mind and that of the Casinoman communicating, I don't think it is a case of "either/or" but of "both/and". That's just my opinion, for what it's worth.

As for "defensiveness", if we are only trying to understand the phenomena of which we speak then the question of attack and/or blame does not really arise, IMHO. If we are seeking to blame someone, either you or casinoman, for your dream then this whole mental exercise is counterproductive in my opinion.

And you said:

" ... he sent me yellow roses the following day- (he is still such a nice man). There has been very little contact between us, so this just makes me wonder what the heck HE was picking up on. It freaks me out, and I want to KNOW, ... ."

Well three transceiver tuned to the same frequency can communicate quite well. However, if two transceivers have quite powerful power output stages while the third is considerably reduced in power output then the third tranceiver may be able to receive the signals from the other two while being 'drowned out' during its own transmission.

Powerful karmic bondage between you and casinoman might be 'taking precedence' over the weaker karmic bonds between you and the niceman. Karmic bonds set the degree of attraction and/or repulsion felt between two people - template stuff and all that.

Karma is only prior mind conditioning caused by intentional behavior in the past. A baby's intentional behavior towards its primary caregivers and their responses, combined with the conditions such as the primary caregivers' physical and psychological manifestations, sets up the 'templates', the karma, that results in later life cravings for particular people and revulsion from others.

Casinoman being a strong 'template fit', his transceiving mind has much more output power and much closer tuning to your transceiving mind than does niceman. That's my theory anyway. Niceman probably did, either unconsciously or in his sleep, 'eavesdrop' on your mind's dream transmissions . I doubt that niceman would be consciously aware of this. However he would be aware of the conscious urge to make a nice gesture to you in his unconscious attempt to compete with casinoman. This is conjecture. That's just what I think is happening. I don't really know.

"... my fear and not running from it. I want to be able to face or observe the fear without becoming angry ...."

Me too. I also want to not appease(self-centered people pleasing) or not immobilize(depression) as a response to my fears as well.

When I fight, run, appease or immobilize, I am trying to preserve and enhance the ego boundaries of my imagined self. The more I do this the more I reinforce the notion of this false self in my ordinary mind. Thus I perpetuate my own dissatisfactions in my life.

When I can clearly see in my mind's eye that the Essence of my ordinary mind is boundless, beyond harm and all pervasive, then there is nothing to either trigger off or sustain my negative emotional states once triggered.

I vacillate between the latter and former mental states mentioned above, unfortunately dwelling in the former mind state for the vast majority of the time. However I am confident that with time, practice and study my mental paradigm will shift towards the latter state of mind.

Even when I am in the former state of mind, if I can realize then that emotions are both 'alarm bells' and 'powerful motivators' that when recognized as dumb animal responses that are often not even true indicators of a threat of relative harm, then I can 'reality check' the supposed threat in a more calm and serene state of mind.

You asked:

"Tez, how have YOU been?"

I've been going well. This is not to imply that everything has been rosy in my life. Just prior to New Year's Eve, Ms. Sneaky's fiance fronted up to my partner, Joy, at a dance and asked her to greet and acknowledge Ms. Sneaky when they meet each other. Joy said: "OK" to him.

On New Year's Eve at midnight, Ms. Sneaky, with her fiance in tow, made a bee-line across the dance floor to Joy and I. It may have been a test. I don't know. Joy acknowledge both of them. I wished them both a happy new year. He kissed Joy just as every one else was doing at that moment. I gave Ms. Sneaky a quick 'peck' on the side of her cheek. All I felt for Ms. Sneaky was compassion for her. She looked most unhappy. She looked very concerned that Joy might deck her but then smiled at my quick kiss on the cheek and said nothing. All was well until the morning. The whole incident festered in Joy's mind and she attacked me over 'encouraging' Ms. Sneaky. I had to go into overdrive as my anger boiled up in me at what I perceived as an unjust attack on my fundamental freedom to choose what I considered to be my appropriate behavior in public when and where I am confronted with women who Joy perceives as being a threat to her. I 'lost it' for a while but in the main said and did the right thing IMHO. All's well now. Joy got over it - for now. However I'm afraid that the Ms. Sneaky 'saga' is ongoing so long as we cross paths at the various dances that we attend.

I have to learn not to take responsibility for the emotional states of others and to take full responsibility for my own WHEN the going gets tough and my emotions are firing on 8 cylinders!! I know what to do. I just have to want to do it at such times and not just indulge my emotions. Again meditation practice is my answer that's proven to work for me. I'm doin' it as often as I can.

January 12, 2007
8:36 am
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Tez

Nice to hear from you.

Your post brought up several points -things I have been thinking about alot lately.

But first - I can't believe the Sneaky woman! Here is what I find amazing - I am assuming that she put her fiancee up to approaching the two of you. How odd! Is this the same man she has been engaged to for a while? I wonder why she would even let him know she cares, and why he would play into her manipulations by approaching you all. Wouldn't you have loved to have been a fly on the wall when that conversation took place? Ha!! What a predicament that placed you in!! This must have been her motive. The fiancee's request to Joy put her on the spot, and Ms. Sneaky must have known what reaction Joy would have. Very sneaky, this Ms. Sneaky to orchestrate this!! What alot of wasted mental energy.

Although I have to say, I was thinking about the extra dances you said you were attending, and wondered how that would all play out for you.

"However I'm afraid that the Ms. Sneaky 'saga' is ongoing so long as we cross paths at the various dances that we attend." This makes me wonder if in a year or 5, you, G_, and I will still be here, talking about these same people? Cutie Pie, Sneaky, and Casinoman?

"Niceman probably did, either unconsciously or in his sleep, 'eavesdrop' on your mind's dream transmissions . I doubt that niceman would be consciously aware of this." It would have to be unconscious- because I never never told him about Casinoman. He may have sensed it.

You said -- "Me too. I also want to not appease(self-centered people pleasing)" This is where I get frustrated. I sometimes feel defensive when I don't appease, and the "people" who aren't pleased don't understand. My mind tells me the sensible, healthy thing to do, but if it is an "unpopular" stance that I take, and I am met with disapproval, my emotions kick in, and I feel anxious. And defensive. I feel the need to explain.

Maybe I'm getting better - I decided a couple of months ago to quit arguing about religion. I finally tired of arguing and "defending" my right not to believe. I will discuss it so I can come to a better understanding of how the culture of religion shaped me and how it makes me feel today.

When I find someone that understands me, it's great. See, when you and I first "met" on the boards, it felt so good to be understood. I had felt so ODD. (like the bastard at the family reunion!!) I have not been able to talk to many people about my feelings or beliefs, because they are not within the "norm", and have always been met with scorn.

I did not shock you. I did not horrify you. My discussions with you were liberating.

I am remembering a conversation I had once with my stepdad, a minister, when I was about 24, in which I explained my beliefs on reincarnation and afterlife to my stepdad, a minister who has studied all religions. He asked me what I had been reading, and told me some of my beliefs reflected Buddhism. I had never studied Buddhism at all.

But this defensiveness -I believe sometimes it is to protect me from hurt- a necessary mechanism in my past, and in my present in dealing with types of people or situations that are toxic to me. But at times I wonder if the defenses I have erected are detrimental to me. If I defend my "self" too quickly, am I closing myself off to further growth?

Bevdee

January 12, 2007
7:17 pm
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Bevdee.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

Speaking about Ms. Sneaky's manipulating game playing, you said:

"Very sneaky, this Ms. Sneaky to orchestrate this!! What alot of wasted mental energy."

Yes a lot of wasted energy indeed!

I have never met in my whole life a more accomplished seductress/manipulator than Ms. Sneaky. When I was with her and in her bed at 6 a.m. in the morning, it was quite common for the phone to ring and for some guy to start chatting her up with me lying beside her unbeknown to him. I haven't got a jealous bone in my body. It didn't worry me one iota.

She has a whole network of guys all trying to get into her pants. She is not promiscuous as G_G's cutie pie seems to be, but far worse - she's a prick teaser. Apart from my male attributes that she values, what makes me so special to her is two things:

1. I'm the only guy in her whole life who has given her the arse. I did it very PUBLICLY as well.

2. I am a template fit for her and my ongoing rejection of her only enhances that template fit further and thus increases the strength of her addiction to me.

Ms. Sneaky's fiancee and defacto husband is very naive as far as women are concerned. He has come out of a life long marriage and into Ms. Sneaky's clutches. He is a really nice guy but he is a lamb being circled by a vicious, vindictive she-wolf. The poor bastard - his hell is here on earth.

Ms, Sneaky is very good at turning on the 'waterworks' to trigger off the male protective instincts. She would highly likely have bunged on a blubbering act all the way home from a dance after having copped a dose of real or imagined rejection from Joy and I, saying things like, "I don't know why Joy hates me. I don't want her man! That's all over between Tez and me now! Surely Joy can at least say g'day to me! It is so hurtful to me that she so misunderstands me and treats me so badly."

Being a naive male fixit man, Ms. Sneaky's fiancee would naturally go into overdrive trying to think of a way to sort things out for Ms. Sneaky to 'just be friends with Joy'. His direct upfront and honest approach to Joy is typical of the nice, courageous but naive guy that he is. What he doesn't realize is that Ms. Sneaky's first step in attaining her ultimate goal is to establish sneaky backdoor communications with me. He is a pawn in her manipulative game.

To achieve step 1, Ms. Sneaky has to make friends with Joy and then lull her into a false sense of security thereby clearing the way for Ms. Sneaky and I to disappear outside the dance into the dark where Ms. Sneaky can 'ply her trade' without interference from anyone, especially Joy.

What Ms. Sneaky doesn't realize is that Joy will NEVER be friends with her and I will NEVER put myself in such a position of vulnerability in regard to enabling Ms. Sneaky's chance to initiate her exquisite seduction techniques. Ms. Sneaky has little or no understanding of the psychology underpinning this whole affair. But she does know how to manipulate men's 'dicks', metaphorically speaking, in the most subtle, discrete and seductive way.

I have no tickets on myself in terms of either my looks or my other social attributes. Objectively speaking Ms. Sneaky has been a very beautiful woman, and still is, when plastered with 'war paint'. But I am only to aware of both the nature of and the power behind dysfunctional childhood generated, 'template' driven, infant survival based emotions when retriggered in both Ms. Sneaky and myself. I won't allow step 1 to eventuate!!!!!

Speaking further about our person addictions, you said:

"This makes me wonder if in a year or 5, you, G_, and I will still be here, talking about these same people? Cutie Pie, Sneaky, and Casinoman?"

It is highly likely as long as we give these three people free rent in our heads. When we all stop doing that then the game will be over.

Speaking about your defensiveness, you said:

"But this defensiveness -I believe sometimes it is to protect me from hurt- a necessary mechanism in my past, and in my present in dealing with types of people or situations that are toxic to me. But at times I wonder if the defenses I have erected are detrimental to me. If I defend my "self" too quickly, am I closing myself off to further growth?"

Well ... I can only give my views on this very important issue. What I say is NOT what I can necessarily do most of the time. Like all humans I have that lower animal survival drives and often fail to rise above them. What I am talking about below is when we choose to interact with offense givers who are not templates who could massively trigger off our emotions addictively. In such cases abstinence from any contact might be most wise.

After that caveat, I would like to regurgitate a little bit of Buddhist doctrine. Buddhists say that our suffering emanates from 'self-cherishing' and it is this that bars us from true peace and happiness.

Putting this in my own words in the context of defensive behavior, I see most human behavior as being directed towards self-preservation in one form or another. Put another way, I think that we humans are mostly motivated by the desire to enhance our own welfare and that of our support networks and to diminish any perceived threat to our wellbeing or to that of our support networking.

The above implies that I think we humans act out of fear, not out of love, most of the time.

If I see a fearful world, perceive people as being threatening on a scale that varies from mildly irritating to downright aggressive, then I am setting myself up to trigger off their negative emotions and consequently aggressive behavior in others, therein confirming the veracity of my beliefs about the world in which I live. As you probably know, psychologists call this the 'pygmalion effect'.

If I then confront the aggression of others with passive or active aggression in return then I am further fear conditioning my already fearfull mindset. Thus I are highly likely to respond with more fear to the fear in others in the future thereby exacerbating fear levels all around. I am unknowingly creating and fostering the hell that exists in my head. I am then likely to blame others for my unhappy state of mind.

If the people of the world largely behaves like this and I think that they(I) do a lot of the time, then no wonder we have wars. It is little wonder Sunnis hate Shiite muslims. No wonder the world is so competitive instead of cooperative. No wonder greed, the fear driven need to get more of everything, causes so much fear and inequity in the world.

Here's what I see as a hypothetical ideal scenario:

1. I feel very angry or frightened.

2. I realize that I feel threatened by the behavior of another person.

3. I reality check the 'threat' and realize that it is only my ego that is reacting to what my mind sees as someone 'putting me down'; that is, diminishing 'me' in my own eyes and/or in the eyes of significant others.

4. I see that the behavior in the other person is fear driven and is thus an inappropriate way to behave.

5. Seeing the depth of ignorance of this person in regard to their own psyche, I feel love and compassion for this person and want to relieve their pain.

6. I reach out to this person with reassuring words that are designed to soothe their ruffled feathers and to allay their fears.

7. I see that my motives are not 'people pleasing' in order to gain some advantage over them for myself. I see that I have genuine concern for them in their suffering and want only to help.

8. I also am astounded to learn that, because of the nature of my response to the other person, my own fear levels have diminished as well. I then realize that my dumb emotional self doesn't know the difference between nurture that is other directed and that which is self directed; my emotions are soothed just as much if not more than the emotions of the other person by my thoughts, words and actions.

9. I realize that I have acted out of real love; not warm and fuzzy feelings based love that I feel for attractive people, but love that is based upon realizations of the truth about suffering humanity.

10. Then as I see the pigs flying overhead, I then apply for my recognition of sainthood from the Vatican or my Nobel Prize. 🙂

Catch yah later.

January 31, 2007
3:15 pm
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Tez

I have been thinking a lot about the past, I suppose, still trying to make sense of things. I was kind of trying to put together a timeline and I had this memory. I want to share it with you.

When I was 17, a junior in high school, my mother came to my room and told me that if I did not change my ways, I was going straight to hell. I asked her if I would have to die first. She handed me some brochures and pamphlets from Oral Roberts University, and told me I had been accepted into the university. She had applied for me!! and told me that by the time I had my prereq's out of the way the medical and nursing schools would be completed. I looked at her and said, "Now why does a faith healer or his followers need a doctor or a nurse or anything medical?"

I have always had that sense of the ludicrous.

How you doin?

January 31, 2007
9:49 pm
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G'day bevdee.

How am I doing? Very well thanks - and you?

Ms. Sneaky, by and large, is behaving herself. The only recent incident was at last Sunday's dance. I was center stage, talking to the dance musician who is my best buddy about a very confidential matter of great importance to him. The conversation was all tied up with dance politics and his situation. Ms. Sneaky, seeing us together and minus my partner Joy, couldn't control herself. She came racing up to both of us with her waggling hips, sexy look and a stupid grin. I said: "G'day ...." and my buddy pretended that we were talking about his sore throat in order to steer her away from the sensitive subject of our conversation. I told my mate that "more sex would fix his throat". With that I turned away from Ms. Sneaky and started to move away. She did a double bunk as fast as she could not wanting to appear to have been left standing by me. I caught her going out of the corner of my eye, abruptly turned around, went back to my buddy and continued our original conversation. My partner Joy who was watching the whole thing from a distance, was furious. Luckily my actions placated her anger or there might have been a 'cat fight'. 🙂

Back to a much more a important topic - your post.

I often wonder why it is that both you and I didn't swallow the whole Christian propaganda hook, line and sinker like most other Christians do.

I think that in my case, I noticed the glaring inconsistencies very early in the indoctrination process. It sounds like you did also.

Yet many things 'stuck' just the same. I was a randy young buck who desperately wanted to 'dip my wick'in some nice girl. However that was a mortal sin. But ... as long as I didn't go that far, it was only a venial sin!! Can you imagine how it was for those girls in my life? I would indulge in foreplay until they were frustrated out of their mind and then I would stop dead. I would go as far as right up to rubbing my penis between their labia, stopping just short of penetration. The power of fear of hell was so great in me that I would actually be able to stop at that late stage.

My sick, fucked up, Catholic conscience said that since neither they nor I had orgasmed, nor had I penetrated anything either then I was not in danger of going to hell if I died before Saturday's confession. How stupid is that????? So much emphasis had been placed on sexual intercourse outside marriage, that I had 'penetration' as the defining criteria for the commission of a mortal sin. No mention was ever made of much else. Although 'fonding of breasts' was also a high priority on one sick Christian Brother's mind. We got a one hour lecture on why we couldn't and shouldn't do this. We 12 year old boys all tried to find out who amongst us had groped one of the Somerville High School girl's boobs. No one had done so and we were all puzzled by the whole business. Now I realize that the Christian Brother must have wanked himself off looking at a photograph of a couple of bare female boobs and was expiating his guilt by telling us not to commit this 'grievous' sin ourselves. Since no mention was ever made of fondling vaginas, by default I assumed that to be OK and only a venial sin. So we played 'stink finger' to our hearts content in the local picture show with some very accommodating girls. Of course I always confessed it. How those priests got their rocks off hearing confessions, I can only imagine.

No wonder women had been reduced to sex objects in our young minds. No mention was ever made of the psychological ramifications of premarital sex with gullible young females believing themselves to be in love and then the subsequent painful abandonment that was experienced by them as a result of us young bucks moving on.

No mention was ever made of the psychological damage or of the results of unwanted pregnancies. Of course when this happened the good Catholic thing was to marry the girl and provide a home for the child. No consideration was ever given to the suitability of the pair, marriage wise. All that mattered was that Catholic protocols were observed.

I entered a bad marriage that resulted in four fucked up children being produced before I was able to throw the shackles of the Catholic Church off and realize my error!! I ruined 6 lives including my own because of very bad programming by the Roman Catholic Church in my vulnerable childhood.

I am still trying to forgive those Vatican sickos. Ratzinger, the present pope, is no exception, I assure you. I speak with first hand knowledge of what Ratzinger did as 'Head of the Inquisition', years ago to my local Catholic priest when that good priest, a doctor of divinity and a University lecturer in religious studies, strayed from the 'party line' a smidgen in trying to show loving compassion to those of another religion. Ecumenism was a joke - looked good on paper. I saw the letter reprimanding this poor priest severely and ordering him to Rome for 'remediation'. Like a naughty little boy caught with his hand in the cookie jar, he dutifully complied. The poor bastard had no choice other than complying or defrocking. At his time of life, he couldn't face the latter. I would have told them to jam their religion up their arse as far as it would go. I later did this, much to the horror of my dear old dad and a relative in the Catholic priesthood.

How did I get all wound up into regurgitating that old load of rubbish?

I think it was the image in my mind of you as a beautiful young girl being subjected to psychological torture by your well meaning but brainwashed Christian parents. I emphasize with your pain all these years trying to relate to parents who think you have lost the way spiritually. I sense your pain in feeling that you have disappointed them. I sense the internal conflict in you between wanting to be authentic and at the same time not wanting to offend and disappoint them by not going along with their religious beliefs.

All that I can say is:

"To thine own self be true." - Willie Shakespeare.

And ... stiff shit for those who don't like it. - Tez

February 1, 2007
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Hey Tez

I wonder - if you could script all the drama going on at your dances and call it a soap opera? Oh,I could think of a half dozen provocative titles - Ms Sneaky as the villainous diva… oh, the wheels are turning!

"I was a randy young buck …." Hmm, sounds like you were the tease, Tez. I was just as bad though. My mother, afraid I would get pregnant, sent me over to the free clinic for birth control pills before my 15th birthday. I suppose she was afraid I would repeat her mistake and be pregnant by the time I was 17. Even though I was on the pill, I was more afraid of my reputation than mortal sin, though. I only got a rep as a tease. But there was none of that pulling out short of penetration. I didn't allow tha!! I was the queen of the dry hump. Let me tell you, it is just as frustrating for a girl holding out as it is for the boy trying to get him some. Or it was for me.

"We got a one hour lecture on why we couldn't and shouldn't do this." Of course one hour is really a long time for young men to envision what the priest is talking about, isn't it? Like - negative publicity? Good lord!!

Do you ever get to see your kids, Tez?

As for my torture? When my mom left my dad for the minister, the reverend got a job as a hospital chaplain, so he had no conventional congregation. My mother changed churches and we all ( Mom, Sissy and me) received confirmation in the Episcopal church. When I was 12, I had been reading a lot of historical fiction. I really loved reading about the English royalty. Anne Boleyn, and her daughter, the incomparable Elizabeth I. At the time, I liked the Episcopal church because of the political compromise. I looked at it as a way to allow Protestant worship, while retaining the ritual of Catholicism. That kind of appealed to me. I thought Elizabeth rocked.

Now, we lived in the bible belt. Not just the bible belt, but the buckle of that belt. There was a big "charismatic" movement going on at that time, and we lived in the hub of the Assembly of God HQ. For some reason she started dragging us to meetings and huge conventions with these headliner ministers - famous dudes - where everyone spoke in tongues, and there were faith healings, laying on of hands and the casting out of demons. This was some scary shit to my sissy and me. Have you ever heard of that? The baptism of the holy spirit? I used to watch the audience when everyone was praying and babbling in the "tongues", until my mother would see me doing this and pinch the underside of my arm. I still do this at employee meetings, I can't help myself.

When I misbehaved, she would scream at me that devils owned my body.
I was disciplined or whooped with scripture recited for about 4 years. Then she quit. I mean, she quit going to church, and when my stepfather retired, he quit, too. Odd to me after her forcing us to go to church 3 times a week or more.

A few years later, a lot of those old AG ministers got themselves in some trouble - Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart (a cousin to one of my favorite singers, Jerry Lee Lewis) Anyway, I was living in AZ at the time, working with a lot of people originally from the NE - NY, Pennsylvania. They just laughed at the ridiculous lies these ministers of god told the public when they were caught with their pants around their ankles - at the whorehouse or with a woman half his age. I didn't laugh, because I had lived where these men were prominent, and I knew that this fall from public favor would be temporary. I knew that these guys had gullible followers that would believe them and support their ministry regardless of their behaviour, or what the ministry funds were spent on. It makes me sick. These guys are back, by the way. Jim Bakker went to prison, but he's back, raking in the money again.

It's all smoke and mirrors, isn't it?

February 2, 2007
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Bevdee

You said:

"It's all smoke and mirrors, isn't it?"

Yes and it relies on the wholesale gullibility of Christians to keep up their illusion of Godly righteousness.

I remember Billy Graham in his hay day. A young girl with whom I worked, who had the hots for me, but who wouldn't come across until we were married, took me to see this charlatan in full swing. I was singularly unimpressed with his 'bs' and told this young lady so. She was ever so disappointed and her ardor cooled markedly after that.

Jerry Lee Lewis!!!!! My hero! Loved Great Balls Of Fire (my condition at the time), High School Confidential, etc.

I loved Crash Craddock as well ... but he crashed quickly. Of course Little Richard and Bill Haley were too cool for words. Buddy Holly wasn't too bad either. Johnny O'Keefe was great until his car crash.

As for my Ms. Sneaky novel. Hmmm! Only my partner Joy would read it I'm afraid. Even then it wouldn't be defamatory enough for her no matter how black and diabolical I painted Ms. Sneaky. Joy just hates Ms. Sneaky with all the venom a jealous woman can muster. I see Ms. Sneaky as a sad case of a poorly parented but extremely pretty young child who has never successfully traversed her early childhood psychological stages of development. Men find it extremely appealing when Ms Sneaky reverts to her little girl role of looking up into daddy's eyes so longingly seeking his love and affection. Joy thinks that she is fully conscious of this 'con' act she puts on. Whereas, I think Ms. Sneaky reverts to this state unconsciously. Dr. Eric Berne, of Transactional Analysis fame says that if we take the father role we are encouraging the recipient of our communications into the childhood role and vice versa. In a sexual interaction many men like to feel dominant. When Ms. Sneaky goes into little girl mode it is very easy for sexually receptive men to be seduced into playing the dominant father role, albeit sexual. Put simply, I think Ms. Sneaky buys her father's love over and over with her 'pussy' as the coinage of barter. She slips in and out of love like a 12 year old. This is my diagnosis for that problematic behavior. I feature prominently in her life only because, in being the only one who has ever rejected her, I fit her 'father template' far better than anyone else. For me this is the only explanation that I can come up with for her obsessive behavior. As I said earlier I'm NO Mel Gibson, that's for sure!

February 2, 2007
11:25 pm
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Tez

Great balls of fire - so you are a rocker!! Did you ever see the movie with the same name? Two great lines - from the scene at a concert where he wants to follow Chuck Berry, but they won't let him, because it is in Chuck's contract to end every show. Jerry Lee didn't want to be upstaged, so… that was the first time he set his grand piano on fire. He struts backstage, and says to Berry- "follow THAT, slick"

And the last scene in the movie- his wife had dragged him to his cousin Jimmy Swaggart's church. Swaggart is having an altar call, entreating the congregation to give up their evil honky-tonkin ways and staring a hole in Jerry Lee. So the Killer stands up and says "If Ima goin ta hell, Ima goin playin the piana!!" And struts out of the church with his wife running after him. I don't know if it really happened that way, but --great movie. He is still performing!!

Come here - I have to tell you a secret. I used to think the Reverend Billy Graham was …kinda hot. When he was younger. (I know, I am shameless). I never listened to him, I just watched him on TV with the sound off. He was so impassioned!!! Oooh that’s another deep dark secret I have just told you.

You say - "I think Ms. Sneaky reverts to this state unconsciously." - and you say "Joy thinks that she is fully conscious of this 'con' act she puts on."

And - "In a sexual interaction many men like to feel dominant."

I don't think it is entirely unconscious, because I believe most women know this. I do. We have talked about my "helplessness" with my cousin. I could see him puff up and kind of strut. He never liked me to be aggressive in bed. Oh hell, now I have to think about THAT. HMM.

I know about how effective this helplessness can be - from my mother. I watched her do it with my daddy and my step dad. Not sexually, but in getting what she needed. I mean the woman was strong physically, and she's not lazy, but she never lifted anything heavy or pulled out a stepladder to reach for anything when men were there to do it for her.

So, no I don't think it is all unconscious. But I can also assess a man's need to feel dominant within a short amount of time. Remember I told you I used to bartend, and I watched people a lot.

Something else comes to mind. My stepsister- about 5 years older than me- very depressed, anorexic, suicidal. Right after she graduated college, she married a boy she had gone to school with. He left her after two suicide attempts in two years. Within the next year, she remarried a very nice man that was in the same field as she was - broadcasting, and with his money they bought a small television station up in one of the northeastern states. She was very good at what she did, professionally. He was very good at taking care of her. She had this way of speaking softly and looking UP at him with her big green eyes and long eyelashes in her very thin little face. Very helpless. She was short and very thin. He had to remind her to eat. Once at a family meal, he dished food on her plate for her while she protested it was too much, she was not THAT hungry. She explained to everyone that not eating was the only control she felt she had over her out of control life, and her husband helped her by reminding her to eat. When we gathered in the living room, she would sit at his feet while he sat in a chair.

She waited until she was 41 to have her only child. She told my mother and me that she had never felt better than when she was pregnant. And post-partum, she felt she finally had a purpose - raising her child. I noticed a big change in her. She seemed more confident, and - rounder and happier. She never got fat or anything, but her hips spread, and her breasts stayed fuller, even after she stopped nursing. She laughed a lot more. Step BIL seemed quieter, more withdrawn.

Later, I asked my mom how long she figured the marriage would last, now that StepS's husband didn't have her to take care of. Since she was growing up. Becoming capable. My mom, who married her therapist/minister, acted like she didn't understand my question. Two years later, they divorced. He left her. She told me that he was a good father, but their personal relationship changed, and he couldn't handle her not needing him. He bought a house 3 blocks away, so he wouldn't be far from their son, and still comes over every morning for breakfast, even after she remarried. Sad because he is a really nice man. His need to be needed was so great, he couldn't hang after she grew.

Well, that's not exactly what you were saying, but it came to mind after all these years.

"For me this is the only explanation that I can come up with for her obsessive behavior. As I said earlier I'm NO Mel Gibson, that's for sure!" Obsessive behaviour is the perfect fodder for soap operas. And I am sure you aren't giving yourself enough credit there, ladykiller. I know I would read a Sneaky book or watch a soap opera like that!!

Bevdee

February 3, 2007
9:27 pm
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bevdee

On 2-Feb-07 you said:

"Tez

Great balls of fire - so you are a rocker!!"

Nuh ... I was a stovepipe trousered Sinatra Red, Mitchell Blue and Prezley Purple attired, 'bodgie' and I loved servicing 'widgies'. Later on I acquired some Beetle boots with which to impress the chicks.

"I used to think the Reverend Billy Graham was …kinda hot. "

You shameless 'hussie', you. 🙂

And you said:

"And I am sure you aren't giving yourself enough credit there, ladykiller. I know I would read a Sneaky book or watch a soap opera like that!!"

If I didn't know you better, I'd suspect that you were playing with my male ego here, getting me to say: "Shucks, awwww ... no I ain't", all the while glowing with rampant male pride, loving every minute of it.

You weren't doing that were you, just a little maybe???? 🙂

If you were, I guess I deserved to be played at my own male game, eh! The male ego is a woman's second greatest power base. I'll just have to watch out for this weakness in me, won't I.

February 3, 2007
9:37 pm
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Hey Tez!

You said? "'bodgie' and I loved servicing 'widgies'." I don't have the faintest idea what this means!! Would you be so kind as to translate for me?

"You weren't doing that were you, just a little maybe???? :-)" maybe a little- you aren't offended are you?

February 3, 2007
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Wearing Beetle boots to impress the chicks! Thats so materialistic. I'd atleast wear some Charles Jourdan (I've never heard of them, I just copy pasted from Wikipedia). Actually my kind of girls like men who go barefooted.

February 4, 2007
12:55 am
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G_?

What kind of girls like the bare feet?

February 4, 2007
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I dont know, sorry I was just being silly heh.

February 5, 2007
4:45 pm
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bevdee.

On the 3-Feb-07 you said.

"Hey Tez!

You said? "'bodgie' and I loved servicing 'widgies'." I don't have the faintest idea what this means!! Would you be so kind as to translate for me?"

The word 'bodgie' was ascribed to young guys in the 1950's who wore black stovepipe jeans with 14 inch cuffs on the bottom. They wore flat top hair cuts with side burns and a 'duck-tail' part at the back. Today we would call them 'hoons'.

A 'widgie' was a girl with very accommodating morals who hung out with 'bodgies' taking care of their sexual needs at the whim of her guy. In return they got to go in the drag races with the bodgies in their souped up jallopies and when playing 'chicken'. Jive and Rock-N-Roll Bill Haley style as in the Rock Around The Clock movie was their preferred dance style.

"maybe a little- you aren't offended are you?"

Nuh! If you could have seen my wry, cheeky grin you would have known that I wasn't.

Catch yuh later.

February 5, 2007
4:49 pm
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guest_guest
3-Feb-07

"Wearing Beetle boots to impress the chicks! Thats so materialistic."

Yep! I was then. At that young age, I was fully focussed on the 'piss', mates and the 'pussy' - not necessarily in that order. 🙂

However, nothing stays the same - all is impermanent and changing.

February 6, 2007
11:51 am
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Beetle??? Beetle?????

I know Beetle boots wouldn't impress me. But now, Beatle boots..... ahhhhh!!!!! :o)

February 6, 2007
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kroika

On the 6-Feb-07 you said:

"I know Beetle boots wouldn't impress me."

I'm sure that they wouldn't. However, if you were a female screaming teenager at the height of Beetlemania I'm sure things would be different.

A hilarious incident happened to me while wearing my Beetle boots in a pub called the Shanty Hotel in 1962. Three or four dinki di Aussie stockmen(cowboys to you Yanks and Canadians) were drinking at a table and staring at my Beetle boots. Much to my humiliation, I overheard one stockman say to his mate in all seriousness: "Shit, don't the pointed toes upset the horse?" He thought that my prized Liverpool city born and bred Beetle Boots were the latest fashion in riding boots!!! I skunked out of that bushmans' country pub with my tail between my legs, pronto.

February 7, 2007
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But Tez, I *did* say that Beatle boots would impress me. And they still do :o)

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