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Terriberry Discussion from support side
March 7, 2009
3:05 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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So they say,

I don't think you comparing a person that loves a child and wants to have sex with a child is the same thing at all as a person being born gay. In NO way is it right or alright for a man or a woman to marry a child, nor to have sex with a child weather the child wants to or not! That is morally wrong in my eyes, and a child can't make those decissions because they are not mature enough to make that decission.

What I am saying is that the way it has been explained to me is that the gay people that I have talked to always felt differant, not knowing what was differant until they got to the age when they found themselves attracted to another. Which is when they realized they were attracted to the same sex as themselves.

Maybe being hetrosexual is not who you call your self to be but as long as you are in love with the other gender and you don't feel attracted to the same sex you are hetrosexual, just like I am.... I couldn't just choose to be gay, you are or you aren't gay. It isn't a choice that's what some people don't understand or are missing here. They are not gay because they choose to be. For whatever reason, beyond my understanding they are attracted to the same sex, and for many of them that I know they sensed this at an early age.... Being born a sexual preditor is not the same thing at all, not even close to it.

As far as bible thumping well this thread started off dicussing belief's in God, and so on, and that's the only reason why I mentioned the bible... I don't care what other's believe or don't believe.. that is up to them not me... I don't push what I believe on anyone ever.... I believe in God and I'm not in any way ashamed to say so, but I don't put someone else down for not believing. But I sincerly do not believe for one second that because a man falls in love with another man because he is gay that they are sinning... there is no way I believe that because of the gay people that I have talked to have explained to me that they felt this way when they were young, and it wasn't something that they had a choice on as far as being attracted to the same sex. I've been married to my husband now for a long time, and if someone told me he wasn't right for me it would be the same thing as others telling gay people that it isn't right for them to love the one they are with.... and who they do love. Who is anyone to say they are sinning that is my point, and I don't see any wrong doing in one loving another... weather gay or straight... it isn't even close to being the same as someone being sexually attracted to children. Gay people aren't sexual preditors to children. Maybe some are just like some staight people are, but not in general and in the most part.

March 7, 2009
3:14 pm
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bevdee
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sotheysay,

Why are the rules against what consenting adults do necessary? To whom are they necessary and why?

I don't think polygamy is wrong, as long as it is between consenting adults. The laws against it are archaic, having to do with inheritances, legal heirs, property distribution after the death of the man.

For instance the Church of LDS- who are those people bothering? They stay within their own communities. They grew up in communities that did not teach it is wrong. So- who is wrong and who is right? This was a common practice in Native American cultures before the Europeans arrived with their religion, and preconceived notions of governmment, conquered the tribes and instilled their laws. They also thought rules were necessary, so laws were put into place and everyone had to conform- or pay the penalty, judicially or societally. Of course most tribes didn't have the legal binding of a "marriage" that we are discussing, but the practice of having more than one partner was not uncommon.

You said this - "Now I understand my own position a little better. I don't feel homosexuality is the same as being born of a certain race, etc.. "

then immediately stated this -

"How many pedophiles say they are just born that way. Should we celebrate their sexual preferences?".

This is a good point to raise, IMO. Also a slick tactic, intentional or not. The way you eased over from discussing homosexuality to pedophilia, seems to me to compare the two, and lump them in the same category. So, I am hearing from you that you won't celebrate two consenting adults' choice of lifestyle NOR will you celebrate the path of destruction a child molestor/ Baby Raper leaves in his wake. How is that the same?

Do you keep your opinions to yourself in your home so as not to influence your children's? If your children are small and still in your home, or when they were small and in your home. do you/did you reckon they never overheard any of your conversations? At home or in your community? Have your children never heard your opinion of what is wrong or right? I heard my parents conversations all the time, until I started listening to music really loud to drown them out.

Years ago, I used to watch my niece for 3 hours in the afternoon- from the time her daddy went to work until her mommy came home. She and I would have lunch, then do whatever. One day, I turned the little kitchen TV on while I fixed "our little snack" (her phrase for our lunches) The Guiding Light was on, and I used to watch it because I wondered if Lily and that Holden would ever get together. And if Lily's mother would ever back off from meddling. And it was Friday-- you know, cliffhangers and all, so I just had to watch it. She was looking at her little picture books in the breakfast nook. When I gave her the little snack, she ate a couple of bites, looked at me, and said "Your stowey? [story] That mama doesn't want that boy to be with her girl cause she doesn't think he's good enough" That just blew me away. I didn't even have the volume up very high. Kids pick up on everything around them.

March 7, 2009
3:34 pm
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_anonymous
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It is not about feelings, or the bible. Discrimination against homosexuals is illegal. Anyone who only wants to make rules that only serve their self interest and deny others the same rights is......

Rosa Parks said "I wont move to the back of the bus". Homosexuals dont need to make excuses, explain themselves or take a back seat to any one.

Since this is a support site I dont believe discrimination has any place here.

March 7, 2009
4:18 pm
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Cary,

I'll tell you, this whole thread is actually really bothering me... How can some people be so ignorant to love. That's the bottom line here, it isn't anyone's business who one chooses to love and spend their life with, and for anyone to suggest that love is a sin, I don't get it!

March 7, 2009
6:54 pm
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bevdee
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Healing and Peace

"How can some people be so ignorant to love."

The bible tells them so. There are quotes in the bible condemning this. Do you know them?

March 7, 2009
8:21 pm
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Bevdee,

Yes I do know what verse has caused so many questions, and beliefs...it is Leviticus 20:13 (If a man lies with a man as he lies with a woman it is an abomination. They shall be put to death. Their blood will be on their hands.)

I have heard this interpreted and explained in three differant ways depending on how one person understands it for the most part and who is reading this parable. When I read the bible I have to read before and after a verse sometimes to completely understand the meaning and I have this verse as well and to me it takes a lot of digging and not just in Leviticus. Leviticus is really written with many verses that are difficult to understand, so a person really has to read the entire book to get it, or understand it.

When I read the bible I do have to look up the meaning of words and I don't take just one verse and say this says it all or explains it all... I must read on and really study what it means.... I know there are people that believe this and can only understand it one way, but based on everything else I have read in the bible I just can't take one verse and say this is it, and put aside everything else written.

Healing and Peace

March 7, 2009
8:24 pm
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Bevdee,

What I meant by saying how can some people be so ignorant to "love".. I mean how can some people not see that love is love, and that is what God has asked of us, to love one another and not cast a stone... not cast judgement.. Love is love, and it doesn't matter if that love is between a man and women, a woman and another woman or man and man.. it is still love no matter how you look at it.

March 7, 2009
10:04 pm
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Wow!

First time I read this thread.

I have to shake my head.

This is afterall - the year 2009?

Right?

Am I right?

Someone corredt me if I am wrong.

The discussion of the rights of gays are still up for consideration and judgement.

REALLY?????

In this day and age?

This is just so antiquated to me.

Like someone complaining about how their ice-box isn't working quite right nowadays or how the neighbor's 'victrola' is too loud.

For real?

Is this gay stuff STILL an issue to anyone anymore?

My word, all this talk takes me back to my childhood in the 1960's.

The fact that some whites (gasp) actually 'mixed' with blacks - and my gosh - what of the ramifications?

"Oh - just think of the children' seemed to have been the question of the day.

Like - they (blacks and whites so-called 'mixing' would have resulted in like - real freaks of nature.....)

I'm serious.

This is what folks actually believed back then.

That the chhildren would have like- 2 heads and 8 arms or something really freaky.

What a crock!

It is almost hard for me to believe that I have even witnessed this in my short life span.

Blacks and whites 'mixing?"

Hmmmmm?

Whom or waht do you think that would lead to?

Ahhh - Tiger Woods maybe?

Obama - The best US president that this country has ever seen maybe?

Incredible.

Absolutely incredible to me that not only the race thing is so antiquated - but the homosexuality thing as well.

It's like so absurd to me that it is like talking to a bunch of folks who still believe that the sun revolves around the earth instead of the other way around.

Absolutely incredible and amazing to me......

Again - I say....this IS the year 2009 - right?

You mean to tell me that there are STILL folks in this day and age who see homosexuality as a 'sin' - something to be changed?????

WOW!

Really?????

My mistake.

I just assumed that we were further along than this BY NOW...........

(Obviously NOT!)

What a throw-back.

Really.

Hard for me to believe........

tBt

March 8, 2009
1:34 am
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SoTheySay:

As a lesbian and a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I am hurt, flabbergasted and enraged at your comparrison of gay people to pedophiles.

Gay men and women are mature, adult people in relationships with other mature adult people. In a gay relationsip there is NO VICTIM. It is a mature, adult relationship between two consenting adults.

A pedophile is a person who abuses innocent children. Children who are not old enough to consent to sexual relationships. A pedophile is an abuser.

Honestly, I'd rather you call me a sinner and tell me I'm gonna roast in hell for all eternity rather than compare me to a pedophile.

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying. Why would you saysomething like that to someone. Why do you even think that is ok. Why do you think it is acceptable to compare the loving, mature relationship between two adults to the abusive, disgusting acts of a pedophile perpetrated against innocent children.

Why is it still OK for people to talk about gay people this way???? WHY???

So-called "Christian" people say the most ignorant, hurtful, unacceptable things, then they whine and cry that THEY are the ones being pursecuted. I swear if I hear one more right-wing nut screaming about loosing thier rights I'm gonna loose it.

Focus on the family....The "Moral" Majority....

Don't these people realize that gay people have families too, and you don't have to be a right-wing heterosexual in order to have morals. Why is Chistianity the yard-stick used to measure morality?

I am a lesbian, in a 7 year relationship to a woman I love and adore. We have a beautifull 14 month old daughter and another on the way. WE are a FAMILY. We have morals. We have values. We are so normal, we are bordering on boring. I wish those people would FOCUS on my damn FAMILY for one second, with an open heart and an open mind. They ould see that we are JUST LIKE THEM. Trying to make it, one day at a time. We love, we laugh, we bleed, we cry. We worry about bills, we change dirty diapers, we get the flu, we go to work, we come home, we do it all again the next day. On Sundays we go to church then have a family dinner.

We are all the same. WHY can't everyone just see that???

Jesus hung out with the people everyone else hated and condemned. If Jesus was here today, I think he would be appalled at the things people do to other people, all in his name. I think he would be heart-broken. He would say, "This is NOT how it is supposed to be. I told you TO LOVE, and you do the opposite..."

How sad.

March 8, 2009
4:06 am
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This is a realy interesting article about a man who is suing the publishers of Bibles.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/i.....geId=69147

"A homosexual man who has a blog on Sen. Barack Obama's campaign website is suing two major Christian publishers for violating his constitutional rights and causing emotional pain, because the Bible versions they publish refer to homosexuality as a sin." He talks about editing done in the Bible. The word homosexual was added in 1976, removed in 2001. Editing, for heaven's sake!!

March 8, 2009
4:51 am
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It is the harm to others upon which courts must focus. Government exists to protect people from harm, not to protect the ability of some to harm others because they THINK God tells them to.

People have the right to think homosexuality is abhorrent, but they DONT have a constitutional right to act on that belief if their acts cause harm.

In the name of God, Jesus, the bible or whatever I dont think any one has any good excuse for coming here and posting threads that cause emotional harm to an entire group of people based on race, creed, color, national origin, religion or sexual preference.

I dont care if some one THINKS they are not a racist, bigot, discriminatory, etc. If you are here targeting a specific group of people you are. To make someone on this site feel bad, or singled out based on their sexual orientation is wrong.

March 8, 2009
9:59 am
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Free2choose

That is exactly how I felt when I read a few of these post! How do some people even call themselves Christians is my question, when they say some of the things that have been stated here. It is a fact that the two Leviticus verses have been studied and studied by experts all over the world and No one can say for sure what these two verses really mean...some say it has been ruled out as directed towards homosexual's because it doesn't say anything about a woman laying with a woman, it has been taken as a man should not lay with another man while laying with a woman as an act of prostitution, so on and so on, but none of the experts that have studied the original Hebrew Bible can truly say what the verses mean... so based on everything else written in the Bible, many Christians have concluded that it is not directed towards homosexualality. I for one agree that the two verses in leviticus are not written in a way that they can be understood completely so if I take the rest of the bible and apply the words to those two verses, I can't see where or how homosexuality is sinning at all because in the majority of relationships there is true love and caring just like in many hetrosexual relationships. Then on top of this the bible was edited, and has been rewritten so many times that it is hard to know what was the orinanal words.

Putting that all aside, shame on anyone for comparing gays to sexual preditors... NOT EVEN CLOSE to being the same. Sexual pedophiles is an act of abuse, and rape, a crime!

You know I think in many cases unless a person sits down and educates themselves they will just assume and make accusations with out knowing facts. Which is really sad because there are many Christians that do not judge gay people, and see them just like they do anyone else or any other couple.

This thread really hurts because I have friends that are gay and these friends would never judge others for any reason at all, they have family's, they are just like everyone else, with the same dreams for their children and their own life's together as couples. They are just like any other couple, and I just don't get how some people can be so cruel.

March 8, 2009
10:02 am
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bevdee
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Healing and Peace. You asked - ".. I mean how can some people not see that love is love, and that is what God has asked of us, to love one another and not cast a stone... not cast judgement.."

Because the bible says so.

The bible, written by men, plagiarised by men does have references to homosexuality.

Leviticus 18:21-22, - 21"'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
22 "'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13, - 13"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
[Hate crimes are sanctioned by the bible (God's word), even if not by local laws]

The definition of detest is? = to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely. The bible tells us to hate, loathe, have contempt.

Romans 1:26-27, 26For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
[Degrading passions - here we get into the bible teaching that some of us must deny this part of ourselves or we will be degraded by it. Oh well, they were pretty much just out of the cave]

1 Timothy 1:8-10) - 8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately.
9 This means understanding that the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers,
10 fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching

So there it is - It's in the bible - Old and New Testaments!! this is why I reject the bible as having any credibility. It speaks of God's love, but from these passages, that love is obviously conditional. There's some other pretty horrifying stuff in there, even some odd things Jesus was alleged to have said. If I take these passages literally? And base my belief and intolerance on them and perpetuate those teachings on children? If I accept the word of these men that wrote the bible, men that claim divine inspiration? That any deviance from the "accepted norm" goes against God's plan, or against the "sound teaching" - then I have to take all the other contradictions in both Testaments and make myself nuts trying to make sense of them, let alone explain them.

Honestly, I can't understand why homosexuals even want to go to a Xtian church that uses the "holy bible" as its moral compass. How could they read a bible, that condemns them so? I cringe -and I'm not gay.

March 8, 2009
12:09 pm
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Bevdee,

Your correct on those two verses that are in Leviticus as they are written now...as I stated above... they do sound as though they are condemning the act of homosexuality but when you look further into the research of the Bible and see how many times it has been rewritten and edited as well... I can't go by those two verses, and won't either. I have looked and tried to find the the explaination of those two verses, and found that Law professors, Bibical professors, and others experts have all tried to find the meaning and no one can truly give the exact meaning as it was written in the Original Hebrew Bible. How can the rewritten versions be seen this way when there have been so many questions raised that came from this subject.. such as if it was meant to be condemning homosexuality then why did it not say anything at all about a woman laying down with a woman? There are many other questions as well.... the term used for mixing of bodily fluids, well does this mean a man can not have intercourse with a woman while she is menstrating? Does it mean that we can not mix seman and a woman's fluids? There are many verses from the old testiment that just don't seem to make much sense and when experts have examinied these same questions that don't seem to make any sense, I just go by what I know, and understand...So my feelings are that the bible has been rewritten many times and in many forms to fit each religion and to fit Man's belief or understanding as they see fit.

Some people believe that if a parent doesn't spank a child that they are spoiling they're child based on the verse "Spare the Rod, spoil the Child"... but I do not understand it that way at all, so will I be condemned to death and am I a sinner because I don't percieve some of the verses as some do... my belief is no, I won't be...like I said I know what is in my heart, and I know where my faith is based on my own experience so I don't care what some churches believe and want people to believe. If I have the peace that I already know, none of what some believe matters to me... I know where I stand with my faith, I know what I get out of the bible, I know what is in my heart, so I don't worry about any of it at all.

So what I am saying is I do refer to the Bible and I do believe the bible but I do not always understand it the way many people prefer a person to udnerstand it and percieve it to be... I have a aunt that says that we all are going to hell in a hand basket if we don't believe what she believes... and I say whatever, I know what is in my heart, and the way I feel so I don't care what some church's say or believe... I don't care what others may think because I know what I know... and no one can take that away from me... I know with all my heart what God is, and where I stand so I'm not bothered by those that think they know it all.. and go by every single word that has been rewritten so many times over and over again in the Bible.

So am I wrong for believing this way, I'm sure in some eyes that they would say yes, but again I don't care because I know what I know... and feel. I dont't blame many people for being turned off by so many forms and versions of the bible.. but it is what is in their heart that matters, and that is the only thing that truly matters as far as I see it, if someone wants to say they disagree with my ways that is up to them and it won't bother me a bit, I do not judge others, and I do not see anything wrong with love between two adults no matter whom they love.

March 8, 2009
2:35 pm
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free2choose,

You wrote:

"So-called "Christian" people say the most ignorant, hurtful, unacceptable things, then they whine and cry that THEY are the ones being pursecuted. I swear if I hear one more right-wing nut screaming about loosing thier rights I'm gonna loose it."

I am totally WITH you on this. I try to be tolerant, but this kind of behavior really tests me.

Bevdee,

Ah, sheesh. I think you're fantastic, and I love reading your posts, but I'm gonna have to refuse your proposal. Maybe if you were "BenDean"...must admit, am partial to the penis, as you are, too. Can't seem to MAKE myself not want men.

Mary

March 8, 2009
2:51 pm
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soofoo
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Darn it guest, I can't believe you don't remember me.

I wanted to share my thoughts and beliefs about the bible. The bible is holy. It is a living word. That does not mean that everything in its text is the literal truth. Certainly, it is not.

You will find what you seek. Jesus told us this. If you seek God's Love and guidance from the bible you will find it. If you seek inconsistencies you will find them.

Why is the bible called the living word? It's called that because it's more than a book. It's more than the text. The process of seeking in the bible causes healing, and communion with God, and this can happen on many levels and in mysterious ways, not just from the actual text.

The bible is peripheral to my faith as a Christian. My relationship with Christ is fundamental. The bible however, has been a catalyst for some real communion with God for me. I would like to share this here.

About 4 years ago, I was struggling with the idea of damnation. How could God, who loves us as His children, send any of us, even the worst, to suffer eternally in hell? I was reading some part of Revelations at the time, having to do with a woman called Jezebel who was damned. I said to God, "How can you do this? If you will damn eternally even a single person than I choose to go to hell too, I will not worship you." These are not the exact words I used, I don't remember them. But I said them out loud and that was the basic idea. In the next moment I felt a very strong and indisputably real message from God, not a voice that I could hear, but a different sort of communication that I can't fully describe, and the message was that the book I was reading was alive and that it was also the book, in which all our names are written, and I saw a reference to this book in the bible, and also He said that He meant it when He said "not a one will be lost."

Then I came to understand that no one, not Hitler, not anyone, will suffer eternal damnation and that God will collect every single one of His children. There really isn't anything that anyone can do to convince me otherwise because it is true knowledge for me. I got it from God. I know it's true. Did I get it from the bible? Yes, in a way.

Once I had this knowledge, I read the bible with a new understanding. New eyes.

There is so much more to say. But I just can't do it right now. Love to you and God bless.

March 8, 2009
4:02 pm
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Soofoo,

Ok the way you wrote this is exactly how I know as well what is in my heart, and where I stand with God, only it happened to me in a differant way.

I was in great pain physically, and emotionally as well from dealing with such physical pain for a long time at that point. So one evening I had called my mother and I had said to her "Mom, you always told me that God will never give us more then we can take" and she simply said he won't...after I got off the phone I was thinking yeah right! I am not buying into this belief any longer because if there was truly a God that loves us and he would not let me suffer in such a way, he wouldn't allow so much pain, he would know I can't take anymore...... I was crying because I hurt so bad, and I said out loud out of anger, pain, and frustration, and not in the form of a prayer at all.... more so even angry, "Ok God if you truly exist what is wrong with you, you promised in the bible, and I was always taught that you won't give us more then we can take, so if your so almighty why can't you see I can't take anymore". Like I said I was angry and in a great amount of pain... and similar happened to me and all the pain was gone... I mean completely gone, and the feeling of peace was such that I can't even put it into words, the most peaceful and at ease feeling there could be. It was a knowing at that moment that God is in each one of us, that he is love.

I only told one of my Doctors when he came into see me the next morning and he explained to me that in his many years of being a Doctor he had seen this only a few times... but he did indeed witness the unexplianed medical miricle as he put it.. A phenomenon as many in the medical field also call it, but he smiled and said it was God. No one had to tell me this because I knew the minute it happened what it was, and what had happened but it was nice to hear that he had witnessed this before.

Like you, there is so much more to say, but it would take two hours or more of sitting here typing... All I can say is I did have a whole new way of understanding the bible, and how and what I felt in my heart.

March 8, 2009
4:47 pm
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soofoo
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Healing and Peace,
Wow! Thank you so much for sharing your story! Miracles absolutely DO happen!

March 8, 2009
4:51 pm
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Wow! It is so hard to believe that we have so far to go on this. This thread really speaks volumes about just how misunderstood this whole topic is.

To those of you Gay and Straight who spoke up; THANK YOU, from the bottom of my big ole GAY HEART.

Cary

March 8, 2009
6:28 pm
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bevdee
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Healing and Peace

" such as if it was meant to be condemning homosexuality then why did it not say anything at all about a woman laying down with a woman" - My gut feeling is- that since men wrote the bible..... and most men like to watch that....

"Because women's bodies are so beautiful.... " Watching two women together is so beautiful." That might be too flip a response, it was just my gut reaction, coming from my filter, what I know and from what I feel. But- men have never seemed, to me, to be as threatened by two women as two men. That's probably conditioning, though.

I don't think you are "wrong" for believing what you want to from that bible. Some of it is common sense. When I believed it was "the word" , I had to pick and choose, too. You don't seem to me to give much credence to the verses that preach hate, intolerance or justifies killing.

The only reason I said because the bible says so was in response to your question about how people can preach or practice hate and intolerance. Those people also believe they are "right"- because it's in the Bible.

This puts me back to the conundrum that is the bible, IMO. Which part to take literally? The parts that feel right to you? If someone "feels" that the scriptures preaching hate and murder of homosexuals is "right", teaches it to a community, who adopts the mindset, then society evolves into thinking that is the truth, and act accordingly. It's in the BIBLE, for crying out loud. It's God's word.

And if we believe that the Holy Bible is God's word, then it all is, IMO. If we believe in the bible, written as it is, then are we doomed to hell for not living the way the bible tells us to, stoning gays to death? You may have some doubts about this yourself, you said, "all, so will I be condemned to death and am I a sinner because I don't percieve some of the verses as some do... my belief is no, I won't be..." Just that you asked the question is telling, IMO. I understand the question, because I was also conditioned that way. When I was younger, the threat of "hell" was always with me, too.

As a child, I heard that the bible had hidden meaning. Yeah. It must because it ain't all that clear. I hear lately that the bible is written in code, and I believe that is just the new millenium catchphrase for "we just don't stinkin' know" Why is it written in code? Why hidden meanings? If by all this time, the three O God, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, hasn't made it clear to someone, then the dude is not at the control panel. If God really wanted us to achieve enlightenment, why doesn't he throw a bone, instead of leaving that book to confuse and in some cases traumatize those who read it.

It just doesn't make sense. And literally, something that doesn't make sense is..... nonsense.

"...So my feelings are that the bible has been rewritten many times and in many forms to fit each religion and to fit Man's belief or understanding as they see"

I agree- from the research I have done, I believe that this was done to start the religion, and they have modified it repeatedly since, for political reasons, or to make the bible more palatable to the public. The Nag Hamadi texts, all the books they chunked out for the King James Version when a new Protestant bible, written in English was deemed necessary. In the 1600s when the KJV was "edited" women had no rights, the books about women and their influence were excised from these divine writings, or historical accounts. That was the political climate, to keep women subjugated, and all property, money, and power stayed with the men.

Ironically, the KJV version was edited by scholars appointed by King James of England and Scotland. King James was gay, so was his dad. He was married and had heirs to the throne, but his "court favorites" are openly discussed. So, if the Bible is to be believed, King James, who sanctioned the editing of the Bible, is condemned by God for his sins of homosexuality. Ain't that a dinger?

The concept of "hell" is not popular anymore, so hell got edited. I believe the story of Jesus' life was also written, as you put it, "to fit Man's belief "- there are all those similarities with the other "Saviour" stories from other, older religions.

If the Bible was written to fit man's belief, to conform to the times, then is it the Word of Man, or the Word of God?

" when experts have examinied these same questions that don't seem to make any sense, I just go by what I know, and understand" Me too.

March 8, 2009
8:31 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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Bevdee,

So true on many things you posted, and yes your right I do not touch on a lot of what is stated in the bible because if I even tried to explian it as I percieve, I wouldn't be able to put into words... that some may understand.. not because others can't see what I see, or don't believe what I believe but because I'm not the best at writing and explaining things.

I really liked your take on why the two verses in Leviticus don't mention a woman laying with a woman... too funny, and could actually be true.

I don't think I pick and choose what I want to believe, more so I believe what makes sense to me and what I have an understanding of...if I don't understand it I will study and if I still don't have an answer to my own question or questions I just don't worry about it, and think well maybe someday it will come to me, and maybe not. My feeling is if God really wants me to know then somehow I will learn or it will get through to me in time.. who knows just not something that I concern myself with... I think a lot of the words used in the bible the way it was written were to scare people in differant religions to believe what they wanted them to believe, but some of them if you try to read them and truly understand the parable's it says one thing but means something totally differant. Do you know what I am trying to say, like I said I have a hard time writing and explaining what I mean to say.

I've listened to other people with all kinds of beliefs and all the fear they grew up with being taught they must live this way, and say this or that, or else, they are condemned for life... My feelings to all that is the church basically saying let me scare you and your family and they will continue to put money in the basket every sunday.. and maybe I will be excepted into the ever lasting Kingdom.. One of my friends that I grew up with ended up going to counseling for years because so much fear was instilled in her while growing up and going to a certain church.

I got it when you stated "because the Bible says so" ha ha ha.. that is my aunt! Again I think that is the fear factor again preachers and the one that are teaching the meaning of many bible verses, it's like let me scare you into understanding this or that my way, and this is the only way, their way.

What I do when I do refer to the bible got answers is pray, or meditate for understanding, if I still don't understand what something means I don't worry about it, because I do believe in God, and I do believe if he wants me to know something that I don't understand somehow I will learn... I know some people will not agree with this, and that is alright, but like I said I know what I know in my heart based on my experience that I posted to Soofoo.

I have no fear of death, I have no fear of living in what I heard when I was really young or at least percieved it to be burning fire, known as hell... I just know that their is peace, and I can only say I know what I know in my heart because I felt it... not meaning just a feeling I have in my mind, I felt that peace, and boyant feeling, and I knew exactly what it was not based on what I was told while growing up, I just knew it was God.

Peaec to you Bevdee, your a kind and funny person and I didn't take your questions as anything other then questions... no harm.. I enjoy reading what you have to say, and I do learn from what I read here.. at least it isn't all in parables that I have to get out the dictionary.

March 9, 2009
8:58 am
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Maybe this guy says it better than I can. This is a clip from CNBC Chris Oberman - a Heterosexual man who says he really dosen't have any Gay close friends of family members...

Copy and paste to your address or browser: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30.....3#27652443

Cary

March 9, 2009
10:39 am
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soofoo
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Cary,
This is very well said, thank you.

March 9, 2009
1:50 pm
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truthBtold
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I find it hard to believe, actually - with ALL OF THE CRAP that is going on in the reat of the world....famine, no access to clean water, extreme poverty etc.....that actually arguing about how loves who just blows my mind?????

Isn't this kind of ridiculous actually, when you stop to really think about it?

Maybe there IS hope for the ignorant.

Just last month a former KKK member apologizes to John Lewis for racial beating back in 1961.

Here's just one link:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02.....153801.htm

There are mnay videos available regarding this, but since I can't download videos (takes too long to buffer with dial-up) this is just one link.

Again, I reiterate, maybe there is hope for the ignorant if they are so inclined to exercise just a little bit more humility and little less self-rightousness.....

tbt

March 9, 2009
8:59 pm
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fantas
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Caraway,
I like that video as well. TB, you are right, there is always hope. One of these days, more people will begin to seek the similarity in each other and exalt those, instead of condemning the difference. Here is to change and progress!

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