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Terriberry Discussion from support side
March 3, 2009
5:02 pm
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Terriberry
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Correction on that last sentence:

It is my belief that it is people like you that generate hate.

March 3, 2009
7:10 pm
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fantas
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Did anyone watch the Ted Haggard interview with Oprah? I had seen the show before his fall, where he was all cocky and everything. The man on the Oprah show had gotten it. He said that only after he told himself the truth about himself and who he truly was and stopped living a life of aspiring to an ideal that wasn't his to achieve, did he truly understand what the love of Jesus was about. He had nothing to offer in terms of his abilities and integrity, and he knew it, this is when he felt Jesus take him and love him unconditionally. He will stay with his wife, but he no longer denies that he is gay or attracted to men.

At least for now, he is choosing to continue his heterosexual lifestyle because he made a promise to his wife and his children to be together, for better or for worse. When I think of this man, I wish him all the best and all the strength he can get from all the Holy Beings out there. I have compassion for him and tremendous respect for him. This man is no longer delusional about what he can and cannot do. He is like a recovering alcoholic. He will have to live this one a day at a time and each temptation at a time. I do not know him as a person but hearing him admit to all he has struggled with as a pastor, and how he always knew that he was living an achievable dream, makes me so full of love for him and those he represents. I think for the first time in his life, he has experienced his salvation.

I also thought it was interesting that his children felt their father having a flaw, made him more human and reachable. Knowing their dad was gay and not perfect, made his children more able to hug, love him, and call him daddy. Interesting!! Me thinks.

March 3, 2009
7:47 pm
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fantas
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((soofoo)), Thank you!:)

March 4, 2009
8:48 am
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Terri,

That explains everything. You have been brainwashed by some religious group. These same groups are the same ones who accuse Gay's of trying to convert and change people when nothing could be further from the truth. I have never met anyone Gay who wanted or needed another person to "join".

You will make your life and the life of those around you miserable with this dangerous game you are playing. It is built on shame and ignorance.

I just hope you don't live in my city and that you and your kind don't want to lynch anyone, blow-up any abortion clinics, protest at any HIV/AIDS related funerals (funny how you do that at the funerals of Gay folks with AIDS, but not those of the children and straight women), and finally that when it comes time to vote YES to my right to be legally married or unionized that you can't make it to the polls that day.

I don't want to change anyone, so why do you and the GESTAPO you have aligned yourself with want to control me and my life? And I said LIFE, not LIFESTYLE!! Why is it when it someone who is GAY it is all of sudden a "lifestyle" with you people?

You will wake up one day from this fog and you know what.... GOD will still love you and forgive you for this; I can't say the same for your friends and folks you have hurt along the way.

Cary

March 4, 2009
10:19 am
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My mouth is open. Terri, I truly feel for any of the women you've used. I hope beyond hope you don't have any children.

March 4, 2009
10:24 am
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Oh, and I think it's parents like YOU who got many of us into a place where we're so confused as adults. Why are you even here? To "witness" to us poor misguided souls? Take it somewhere else.

March 4, 2009
11:30 am
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Wow Caraway, and SpecialK,

You guys have a lot of anger. Look, this is something I am not asking either of you to do. Was not sterotyping anybody. I was /still am simply stating my beliefs.

Again my intent is not to harm. I do understand the injustics and discrimantion that comes with being gay. That in no way should be condoned. I do not agree with extremest behaviors, or acts of hate.

I did not mean to offend you with anything I said. However the this subject makes people very emotional. I understand. You all have made some very good points. But this discussion has turned more into a session of name calling and insults.

Again, thanks for the discussion and all your input and views.

tb

March 4, 2009
11:55 am
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caraway
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Terri,

This is not so much a discussion as it is a fight for HUMAN RIGHTS. To standby an allow folks like you to challenge my rights because of your misguided religious views and inability to be true to who and what you are can't go unsaid.

I can agree to disagree with folks on choices in their lives about marriage, divorce, jobs, children, but when you talk about homosexuality like it is something one can put on and take off like a sweater, I get damned offended. You would never say anything like this about being black, or having blue eyes, and until folks get educated and understand that being Gay is as much a part of me, and you apparantly, as breathing.

Your casual tone and suggestion that one can turn on and turn off being Gay like water.... is dangerous.

Cary

March 4, 2009
11:56 am
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Sigh...I KNEW I'd get labeled with an anger problem by the end of the day! Ah, the "injustics" of it all...

March 4, 2009
12:12 pm
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Specialk,

Funny how someone can slap you in the face and then get offended when you get angry!

I'm not angry, I'M PISSED!

Cary

March 4, 2009
1:02 pm
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Hi all I was reading this thread and felt compelled to chime in. I am a Christian man and I love the Lord with all my heart. I am fairly conservative and sometimes down right square however I am appauled when I see of hear Christians judging others and telling others how to live. Because of the homosexual community having the courage and at least some support we now have more info about the FACT that sexual orientation is somthing we are born with and is a part of who we are. If God made us the way we are who am I to tell others how to live?? How could I possably say I love you and then Damn you to hell in the next breath.

I just don't see where these judgments are justified. We can't go around separating sin, like saying your sin is greator than mine therefore I have to correct you?????

On the days when I can be honest and I think if everybody were honest we are all sinners and we all have a full time job of selfexamination of our own sins.

"Let the one among you who is without sin Cast the first stone"

Peace be with you.

jv63

March 4, 2009
11:21 pm
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Terriberry- It sounds to me like in the name of Christianity you are judging or I should say bashing homosexuality and I dont think that is cool. It is disrespectful.

Instead of hiding behind the bible why dont you just come out and say whatever you want to about homosexuals.

But remember like your bible says those that live in glass houses dont throw stones at others. He who is without sin cast the first stone.

In honor of Caraway, myself and others here I dont think this thread deserves any attention. I believe it defies the spirt of this forum.

March 4, 2009
11:41 pm
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Terryberry- You told Caraway to take up what you posted on this site with GOD. What for God didnt post on this site you did so why dont you take responsibility for it?

You are using the bible as an excuse to bash gays.

Discrimination in the name of anything is sooooo UNCOOL.

Maybe this doesnt come from the bible it came from my kindergarten class if you cant say something nice then dont say anything at all. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

March 5, 2009
12:51 am
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free2choose
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LOL @ Destinystar!!!

March 5, 2009
1:09 am
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Whoooo.... stoped by to check in on the peeps and this is what I find. Can anyone tell me what thread this started in on support side?

Cary...

I have learned that anger, even justifiable anger, only serves to further division. I know... I KNOW. When I listen to someone with beliefs such as TB's it is so very difficult NOT to get angry, NOT to be PISSED, NOT to be offended.

You are so RIGHT. Heterosexuals on BOTH sides of this debate, both liberl and conservative, Christian and Secular... They don't understand how offensive it is for us just LISTENING to them discuss our LIVES as if we are some random abstract concepts and theories rather than thinking, feeling, loving human beings.

We are not case studies. We are not agendas. We do not have lifestyles.

We are human beings with emotions. We laugh, we cry, we feel joy and pain and love. We feel. We bleed.

We do not deserve to be discused and debated and judged and hated.

We deserve to be treatd with respect. With dignity. With comapssion. With love. With equality.

To have LIVES called "lifestyles", and our LOVE called sinfull is hurtful, it is damaging, it is divisive, it is judgemental, it is rude and uncalled for and utterly, completely wrong.

"Love is patient, love is kind" Love is not judgment. It is not hurt and pain and condemnation.

If that is how anyone shows love, then they do not understand what LOVE really is.

GOD is LOVE. God is grace and mercy and comapssion and understanding. God unites, not divides. God heals not destroys.

So often Christian "LOVE" results in all of the things that GOD IS NOT. Why is that? Where did we, as humans, go soooo wrong?

Cary... I FEEL YOUR PAIN. I feel your frustration. I feel your RIGHTEOUS indignation. YOU ARE NOT ALONE, and WE SHALL OVERCOME. Never give up.

March 5, 2009
1:42 am
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Fantas...

Hello. Don't really remember if I've ever spoken to you before. Thank you for EVERYTHING you have posted here. I have very much enjoyed reading your posts. This line especially hit me hard in the chest...

You said:

"It takes a very special person to really see that the test and trials we go through do not take away the Divine from us and that what we are going through or even choose to do, has no bearing on how much love we deserve."

What I HEARD you say was that it takes alot for someone to see that our mistakes and failings as HUMANS does not take away the GOD in us, and that even though we are not perfect, we still deserve love.

And what really finally clicked for me...you said:

"what we are going through or even choose to do, has no bearing on how much love we deserve."

What I HEARD you say is that regardless of who we are or what we do, not only do we still deserve God's love, but the DEPTH of that love NEVER changes. God loves us the same. Always.

WOW. I don't know if that is what you meant, but that is what I heard, and I just want to say thank you.

See, I have spent the last 10 years trying to figure out if I am worthy of God's love. His mercy. His campassion and grace and understanding. I have tried and tried to convince myself that my sexuality does not have any bearing on my worth as a person. That I AM WORTHY simply because I am, and that whether I am gay or not, God loves me just the same.

I am so tired of EVERYTHING beautifull and precious in my life being called a sin. Being judged and looked down on and dissaproved of.

I just want to live my life, love my partner and raise our children in peace. And surrounded by the grace, love and mercy of a GOD who cares. WHO TRULY SEES ME... not my sexual orientation, BUT ME. My heart. My soul. My intentions. My struggles. My doubts. My flaws. My imperfections. My hopes. My dreams. My prayers. My efforts.

The sum total of who I am. Of who I want to be. Not just one very very small aspect of me, but ALL OF ME.

I am so tired of being judged as a lesbian rather than as a HUMAN BEING.

I can only pray that if there TRULY is A GOD, that He is NOT as shallow and superficial as us humans tend to be. I pray that He can see my Humanity, and love me for it.

March 5, 2009
2:47 am
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fantas
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(((Free2choose))), Thank you for pointing that out. That's what I meant to say because I have come to believe this. Were this not true, our Creator would never have send Jesus and all the other Divine prophets of God to places and people that were so spiritually and behavior.

As far as I know, He hasn't changed, and although we are still advanced that in the times of Jesus, for example, we continue to struggle to
achieve a semblance of Divinity. I hardly think that God will punish us for striving, after He found it fit to send us a helper. We were never meant to be perfect in our opinion. Babies, are hardly perfect but we love them to bits. God, is far more loving that we are. For me, intention is paramount, not falling short. If I intend to do good, I try to the best of my capacity, I'm good. I ask for assistance to do better, but I no longer punish myself.

This quote in a song, jolted me to this realization you are talking about. I remember hearing it, and my body shook with relief and tears. I was in an audience and people just didn't know what to do. I realized then that, only I, my doubt, and self judgment, were keeping me from my destiny of nobility: This is our birthright. We do not have to earn it, but we can talk ourselves out of it.

I remember how the hall we were in looked and smelled when I heard it! The everyday struggles of my life, are part and parcel or our existence on this earthly plane, the reason for which will be made clear in the other worlds. I win some and I loose some. I try to keep my intentions pure and I seek to excel to the best of my ability and the rest I have no control over.

22. O SON OF SPIRIT!
Noble have I created thee, yet thou hast abased thyself. Rise then unto that for which thou wast created.

March 5, 2009
3:07 am
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fantas
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Sorry, I meant to say spiritually and behaviorally corrupt. He would have gone a much nicer group of people if he was after perfection.

By the way, why don't people argue as vehemently about divorce. Since clearly states "I hate divorce", or the molestation of children, they too held a special place in the Kingdom of God? Until one can give me a good answer to these questions, I will not buy the whole homosexuality is sinful and headed to hell stuff. It's all or nothing, folks;)

March 5, 2009
11:38 am
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Yes, Fantas @ divorce.

Last week a politician in Colorado referenced gays to murderers. He read the Bible, Leviticus, on the Senate floor, the passage about homosexuality being an abomination deserving death...

All that made me very angry of couse, but this part angered me most of all...

He was talking about governtment condoning and accepting "sin" and he said something like, There's lots of sin out there, murder and adultry, and we don't accept that... (seriously paraphrasing)

But he did specifically say adultry, and I got so angry because to me, that is just TYPICAL right-wing Christian ignorance and hypocracy.

Everywhere in the country divorce is LEGAL and accepted. Then states and churches go on to bless the marriages of previously divorced people.

The Bible. JESUS himself clearly states that if one divorces and then remarries they are committing the sin of adultry.

It is the levelof hypocracy that just ASTOUNDS me.

Even in the church I am currently attending,the UMC, Iwas discussing it with the pastor awhile back and he mentioned homosexuals can not be ordained. I askedif divorced men and women who wereremarried couldbe ordained, he sad yes. I said, "Biblically, don't you see the flaws in that...the hypocracy." He could not respond, only stutter.

March 5, 2009
1:45 pm
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I agree with Destinystar...I think Teriberry's comments "defied the spirit of this forum." What if someone said the same sort of thing about all black people or all Jews? IT'S THE SAME THING. I am a heterosexual woman myself, but I have a friend who is not even 21 yet whose fundamentalist Xtian parents abandoned him after he had the courage to come out to them as a teenager. This kid is a genius and should be attending school -- instead he is moving from city to city and couch to couch, working more than one dead end retail job at a time just to survive. He keeps a tremendously positive attitude despite all this -- he's also started a career as a drag performer, has a good following, and wherever he goes dives right into the young GLBT community and takes young men and transgendered individuals under his wing. His Myspace page is filled with statistics regarding hate crime as well as his own and others' writings about how it feels to be hated because of the way you were born.

The only time I've ever seen him genuinely sad (besides the regular drama that goes along with that age group) is when he told me that as a child growing up his parents always said "you can be whatever you want to be!" but then tossed him out on his ass when he told them he was gay. I guess to them "whatever you want to be" didn't include "honest about the way you were born."

It's hate speech, no different than Hitler. And like racism, it does not belong on a site about growth.

March 5, 2009
2:12 pm
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Destiny, Free, Fantas, and others,

Thank you for the support and the reminders about lowering myself to that level, I know it isn't right to allow myself to get so upset.

I just get overwhelmed that I still have to argue my existence. Can you imagine as a heterosexual just waking up one day and "deciding" to be attracted to the same sex. I just don't understand what the big threat is? Family values? Don't most humans want to get married, have children, and live happily everafter? Do these people really think that one can develop a desire just by praying. I could pray everyday for the rest of my life for God to make me African American, and guess what, he wouldn't!!

Why does this upset folks so? Why have they accepted divorce, mixed marriages, rights for women, people of color, and all of the other things that have divided us as people for ever, and not this?

I am as boring and normal as they come. I don't have any interest in child molestation, sleeping around.

Cary

March 5, 2009
2:21 pm
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I want folks to ask questions of people they know around them who are Gay and Leisbian and ask them how long they have dealt with it. To hear the stories of children who can look back to their earliest memories and know that this is how they were born.

To look at science and see that there is a difference in how we are made.

I hear folks say things like, "I don't understand it, but I love you anyway", and "everybody sins". I am not a sinner because I am Gay. Gay is not a sin anymore than being heterosexual is. I am a sinner because I get angry, and have envy and jealousy, not because I am the way GOD made me.

I want folks to realize that their judgement of who and what I am is a sin, and if they need worry about anyone's place in Heaven or Hell, it isn't mine.... it's their own.

Cary

March 5, 2009
2:23 pm
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hey did anyone hear that the calif courts are reconsidering same sex marriage?????????????

March 5, 2009
2:28 pm
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No, it is not hate speech.

It is the truth, as the bible explains it. I do not hide behind the bible. I actually stand up for its truths.

Let me remind those just jumping in on this. This whole, post started with somebody who was struggling with there life style. This person said the where a beliver in Jesus Christ.
I gave the a biblical response. That is something I will always stand firm in. Then Soofoo, asked me questions, which I responded to, who also said he was a believer.

Because most of you did not like my response for whatever reason you go off on whole another path that this thread was meant for.

How you interpret what somebody explains about a belief most of you dont even share in. Is up to you.

What society does to gays/lesbians is unfair, down right wrong and hateful.
I have experinced some of what you have shared as discrimmation personally. So I understand the pain, this type of treatment causes.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IT. I agree.
Most of you have taken what I have said out of context and ran with.

I agree the tone of this thread has turned into one that does, "defied the spirit of this forum."

March 5, 2009
3:30 pm
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Terri,

Isn't there something in that Bible about none as blind as those who REFUSE to see. This is the point, what you refer to as your belief isn't acceptable. You do not have the right and it is dangerous and stupid for me or anyone else to sit by and allow you to make statements about a HUGE segment of the population in that way.

If you applied your version of the bible to your life, and no one else's, that would be sad for you, but you and others use that same bible to vote NO on my rights and persuit of happiness.

I will not sit back and allow you or anyone else to imply that they can change me.... it can't be done and there is no reason that it need be.

This isn't about changing your mind; It is about not allowing you to poison the minds of those who read this with your hate and self-loathing. There are folks who use that same bible to justify AIDS and murders (hate crimes) and they will continue as long as there are pople like you out there.

Cary

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