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Terriberry Discussion from support side
February 27, 2009
4:10 pm
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soofoo
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I do not just call myself a Christian, I am a Christian. There are many of us who love Christ and are supportive and loving of gay people. There are many gay Christians also.

Surely, you have heard of the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit lives in the heart. As Christians we believe that God lives within. How then can we ignore our own hearts and still think we are listening to Him?

It is not loving our neighbor to tell them that we know better than they do about what God wants. It is honoring the Holy Spirit in another person to support their heart.

February 27, 2009
4:31 pm
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Soofoo,

When you say you are a Christian, what does that mean to you? Who is Jesus Christ to you ?

February 27, 2009
8:55 pm
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soofoo
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Jesus Christ is God manifest as a man. Through his sacrifice, God gave us the Holy Spirit, that lives in us. Through Jesus Christ we are reconciled to God, we are in Him and He is in us.

There are many, many things that you disregard in the bible. Most of these are in the Old Testament, but some are also in the New Testament. How many women do you know who shave their heads before they speak in church? This is suggested in the New Testament.

I would never advise a Christian (or anyone else) not to listen to her heart. Jesus said that the only sin that could not be forgiven was a sin against the Holy Spirit. And I believe that to mean that if you deny your Holy Spirit, you cut off your connection to the Lord, and therefore cannot receive his Love and forgiveness. How then, can we shut out the heart? Of course we cannot.

Homosexuality is definitely a marginal issue to Christianity, which is based on Love. I dare say it is as trivial as whether or not to pray with hands open, clasped or pressed together. Reasonable denominations do not deny that other denominations are worshipping the same God based on the way they place their hands. It is a matter of personal preference.

I have read the bible cover to cover, but when I read for spiritual advice and guidance, I read only the words of Jesus Christ, who is the only man to have lived a perfect life and spoken only the truth.

February 27, 2009
9:56 pm
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I saw this recently although its a study from 2005: Does religion increase social dysfunction?

A recent study of developed countries by Gregory Paul in the Journal of Religion & Society published by Creighton University (a Jesuit institution, BTW), demonstrated that higher percentages of belief in "God" have a positive correlation with most trackable social ills (homocide, teen pregnancy and abortions, infant mortality, etc.) and a negative correlation with life expectancy (the less "Godly" the society, the longer people live).

Just wanted to share. I is an athiest.

February 27, 2009
11:02 pm
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soofoo
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Guest, did you miss me?

February 28, 2009
2:17 pm
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Terriberry
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Soofoo,

Is Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior of your life ? I think not, because you simply did not anwser the question.

You are not to trust your own, heart. IT is deceitful as the bible says. You are to Trust GOD. And when I say GOD I mean the Father the Son and the Holy Sprirt. The GOD head three in one. We are sinful people in need of a Savior. That is also what the bible says. It says that we all fall short of the glory of GOD.

Homomsexually is a sin, like other sins. Yes the Lord can and will forgive your for that sin. But you must have a repentant heart. How can you have a repentant heart if you are still living in a sinful life style?

You can just simply choose parts of the bible and disgard them because it is something that makes you feel uncomfortable.

Like another poster said in the original post on this. To tell somebody the are wrong, and need to change is not an hateful act, but an act of love.
Think about...

tb

February 28, 2009
5:24 pm
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I personally dont endorse any religion, philosophy or belief that discriminates against someone based on their race, creed, color, national origin, religion, handicap or that would dehumanize or degrade another human being that falls into that category.

I hate to hear anyone use religion as an excuse or justification to bash homosexuals.

My opinion is if you are a firm believer in a certain value than it is hippocritical to get involved in a sexual relationship with someone outside of your belief system.

It is hippocritical to violate your belief system then turn around and condemn someone else for violating it as well.

For example Christianity. The new testament has a number of things that come under the category of being a sin. One sin is not any worse or better than the other. It makes no sense that a person would think it was OK that they had sex outside of marriage before meeting a new partner then have premaritial sex with this new partner then in the name of Christianity tell the new partner that they cant marry the new partner cause of what the new partner did in the past???? Of course without mentioning what sins they committed in the past and are currently committing. Having permaritial sex is a sin doesnt matter if it is with someone of the same sex or opposite sex this is of course according to the new Testament.

February 28, 2009
5:28 pm
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The only other thing I want to add is I dont endorse any belief or religion that discriminates against someones sexual orientation.

February 28, 2009
10:28 pm
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TB,
You asked me who Jesus Christ is to me and I answered.

I will say it again. I am a Christian. I believe in the Christ as the Redeemer of mankind, and yes also, as my personal savior.

Your beliefs are very different from mine and yet I do not deny that you love Christ.

Jesus taught us to love our neighbors and even our enemies. He was pretty clear about what this meant. He told us to give them food and comfort. As far as advising them about how to live their lives, he said that we must first remove the beam from our own eye before we attempt to remove the sliver from our friend's eye. He also said "Judge not, lest ye be judged".

When I listen to my heart, I am listening to Christ, for He is there! I have only to ask Him to guide me in my words and in my works (not that I always do, because I sometimes sin, and I sometimes want my own way) and I can fully have faith that He will do it. He has promised us that. Your heart is God's precious gift to you, to be cherished and nurtured for the temple that it is, the house of the Holy Spirit. It is not to be suffocated and stifled.

God meant so much more when he asked us to love our neighbor. He did not mean to show our neighbor disapproval. He meant to let the love that He fills us with spill over and onto our neighbor. When you are filled with the Christ you have so much to offer. You can give and give like an endless well. It is a joy, not a criticism and it blesses the giver and the receiver.

March 1, 2009
12:38 pm
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i believe that the Bible is not a pick and choose book to be read. Meaning..you either live it literally in every way or you realize that there is room for interpretation and things can be taken out of context and used at the readers discretion.

Such as..how can one judge someone on their homosexuality..yet ignore the fact that we are to "judge not lest we be judged". Yes you can be forgiven for judging someone, but how can you have a repentent heart if you are still living in sin and judgement every day?

I do not expect heterosexual people to understand the homosexual mind because they are not one. Just asking that they open their minds more and mouths less to hear. God created the universe....he created people to be homosexual, period. Not sure why it is such a sticking point for Christians to harp on? And YES I AM A CHRISTIAN! I love heterosexuals,homosexuals and judgmental Christians alike.

March 1, 2009
2:14 pm
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hi Soofoo, yes! I think so :D. I have a bad memory nowdays

March 1, 2009
11:11 pm
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Having grown up as a Christian, I always wondered how anyone could be sure that another person was "saved" based on their words. All the Holy Scriptures, attest to the fact that, not every one who calls the name of God is going to achieve Salvation. Just claiming it, doesn't make it so. Also, all the Holy Scriptures, regardless of religion (Yes, there were other prophets and messages from God before 2000 years ago)say that the only way to know the true believers is by their fruits. The only thing Jesus asked us to do, is love one another as he had loved us and teach the good news!! All the rest of the sin seeing and judging and very much like the hypocritical pharisees who prayed loudly on the streets so that everyone could see their purity.

No one sees a person's heart and their intentions. No one knows what tomorrow will bring, let alone eternity. Regardless of the Faith of choice, if we are busy looking at what others are doing and expending emotions, happy or unhappy, we are forsaking our own growth. It's like leaving your house dirty to go clean someone else' who hasn't even asked for the help.

The are countless stories in the Old and New Testament of redemption of the so called heathens. However, only the true seekers, pure of heart, spiritually humble, and truly spiritual, were able to see the divine in them and impart such unconditional love upon them that it caused healing and redemption. It takes a very special person to really see that the test and trials we go through do not take away the Divine from us and that what we are going through or even choose to do, has no bearing on how much love we deserve.

I think that to be able to see someone smack in the middle of their spiritual journey, invite them in for a restful night and food (spiritually speaking) is Divine. I love how Mother Theresa answered, when asked what she did on the streets of Calcutta every day. " I see the face of Jesus, in its different forms of anguish..." She also said that "f you judge people,you have no time to love them"

It isn't for us to point out the sins of others. Our only command is to love all...~peace~

March 2, 2009
11:34 am
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Terriberry
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Soofoo,

Why is it that we are in need of a Savior? Is not because we are all sinful ? How is then that you can claim the forgiveness, if you have not been repentant? How can you be repentant if you do not change from your ways? Living a gay life style while you claim to have Christ dwelling inside of you is a a conflict. You are greiving the Holy Spirit that dwells inside of you. Because the Bible clearly states it is a sin.

I did not write the bible. I do not in my own will even like, sometimes, what the bible says in this regard.

However, I am not longer living for me but for Jesus Chirist. Which means you die to your old life, and you are a new creation in Chirist.

Yes, Jesus loves us. Yes we are to love one another. Yes, we are not to be judgemental. However we are aslo to speak the truth,in love.

Sometimes the truth, hurts. Sometimes the truth is something we dont want to have to deal with it because it means we have to change our ways.
I am speaking in truth, and love.
It is up to you to do with it what you will.

I pray that God's Word speak to you:

Galatians 5:16-26

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Thanks for this discussion.

tb

March 2, 2009
12:46 pm
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soofoo
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TB,

I disagree with you that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus never said that it was. The bit in the bible about sodomy is a reference to male prostitution. And Jesus never said that part either.

I am actually quite confident that homosexuality is NOT a sin. Sex can be used to hurt someone, and to hurt someone very, very deeply. This is a sin. It is a sin for heterosexuals and homosexuals. Sex is not to be taken lightly.

I don't think I can convince you of my position on homosexuality as a non-sin. My hope in this discussion, is that you might realize that I am also a Christian even though we differ in our belief on this issue. Also, I hope that I can show you that a practicing homosexual may also be a Christian, without any conflict in his heart.

I also disagree with you that when we speak the Truth, in Love, that it sometimes hurts. I don't believe that Christian Love ever hurts. The Love of Christ can never cause pain. Romantic love hurts, human love hurts but the Love that Jesus taught us to give one another never hurts. So if you are hurting your neighbor while loving your neighbor I believe that you are making an error. I don't claim to be superior here, because I make this mistake a lot. How many times have I though I was doing the right thing when I pointed out someone else's flaws and insist that they fix them? Too many to count. And I didn't stop doing it when I received the Christ, because I am still human and still make mistakes, since He has given me free will. I stray a lot. And I have to keep putting myself back on track.

March 2, 2009
1:19 pm
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Soofoo,

You are right when you say you wont change my position on this. I also don't agree that you can not live this life style with having a conflict in your heart.

I honestly think that you are coming from a place where you think you are making the right choice. Trust me when I say I have been there.

I truly think that you are making a mistake. I truly think you should search the scriptures even more to learn God's truth.

By the way I didn't say love hurts, I said the truth hurts. I speak to you the truth in Love. Which means as a brother or sister in Christ, I love you enough to speak to you the truth.

This truth may hurt you because it means you may need to change your life style. Doesn't thought of having to give up the person you love with all your heart hurt ? Yes, GOD gave us free will. But are we not to surrender our will to him ?

Soofoo I mean you no harm. I disagree with you. I am just giving you something to think about. As I have already been down the road you are on, and I from first hand experince, that it does not work.

tb

March 2, 2009
2:08 pm
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Terriberry & Soofoo,

Have you seen the movie "A Prayer for Bobby"...also in book form, it is a true story. It was about a young man that realized he was gay, I don't want to explain the entire movie/book because it is better if you can watch it or read the book, but it is certainly worth watching... and explains how we can and some do perceive writings in the bible.

Let me know if either of you have seen the movie or read the book. But you better grab some tissue because it will bring a a tear or two to your eyes. Very touching and educating at the same time on this very subject that you two are discussing.

Healing and Peace

March 2, 2009
2:53 pm
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Hi Healing and Peace,

I haven't seen the movie. But I have read a review on it. It does sound touching. It does seem to have an agenda though, from the side of the from the G/L community.

It educating, not on the ways of the bible but more on the ways of how the G/L community see a biblical view as intolorance.

I may go see it to understand this a bit more.

Thanks,
tb

March 2, 2009
2:58 pm
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TB,

Don't you think that sometimes the Bible is taken a little too literally, especially when it's convenient for the preachers to scare people into their fold? Here is an example, Jesus said that unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.Jesus had to explain that he didn't mean this literally. He also said that we need to be like children to gain access to same kingdom, again,this wasn't meant literally. This IMO, implies an internal transformation the likes of which one cannot help but talk about, born of the purity, acceptance and naivete of a child. Hence the statement which says that those who do not testify in Jesus name her on earth, would also be denied in heaven?

I think there are layers, upon layers or healing meaning in the Bible, for the spiritually open. Like Jesus lamented, ears they have but they do not hear, eyes they have but they do not see. Why is it, we do not read a little deeper into each aspect of the Holy Scriptures? I know for a fact that the Bible wasn't meant for judgment but healing and life.

I figure that just saying you are saved and love Jesus isn't what the Bible is talking about. IMO, if the actions and life of a person are not a testament to the inner transformation, such that no one can tell the difference, then this person will also not be acknowledged in the other worlds.

Why is it that there is such emphasis on the salvation aspect of things and not the warnings. Like, judge not so as you may not be judged? Remove the log in your own eye before you can see the speck in the others. I mean, there are countless of these warnings, that so called born again individuals choose to ignore, while passing such harsh and mean spirited judgment on others.

I remember how I said I was born again, these girls who were older than me, ganged on me and started tell me how I will go to hell and how sad they would be, and they wouldn't let up till about midnight and I was so sleepy. I realized they wouldn't let me go to bed until I said yes, so I did. They were so excited and from that day on, I started to live the life of a born again person, although my heart was never in it. I just didn't want to be called a backslider and shunned by these girls, who had now taken me in their midst. As far as they were concerned, I was born again. I wasn't. I was just surviving in a boarding school, where to have these girls on your side, had tremendous social advantages.

I then studied the Bible from cover to cover, majored in Christian Theology, still not born again in my heart, although everyone thought I was, and I learned through all this that there is so much more to the Bible than the literal, surface,simplistic, interpretations, often heard in pulpits. I also realized that no two people can interpret the Scriptures the same, because they touch us at the point of our need. What maybe a profound verse for one, may not be for another and this is okay, because it's meant to be a healing balm to the sick. We all do not take or absorb medicine the same way, even if we have the same illness.

I also learned that there is a great deal of pressure on born again people. This experience didn't allow me to live life abundantly, the reason for which Jesus came in the first place. There is no room for being truly human because every test, or difficulty is seen as a sin, or an attack from the devil. To me it wasn't a life of victory but of battle, when clearly Jesus' last words on the cross were, "..it's finished"... which to me meant that I was free from ritualistic attempts at trying to gain God's grace...like the Judaic laws required. I mean, I had to dress, be, pray, do certain things to keep this lifestyle going. "Yokes that bind". I couldn't grow spiritually because I was too busy conforming.

There was no place to talk about the fact that all the hurt and abuse I suffered was inflicted by heaven bound born-agains. There was no room to be exactly what Jesus had died for us to be, free from the laws of man. It has taken me many years to feel truly transformed spiritually, which is an ongoing journey of victory and crisis. I'm now finally able to embrace every aspect of my humanness and see my difficulties, mistakes, etc. as a loving gesture from the Creator to help me learn about aspects of me that I need to develop and grow in preparation for my life in the other worlds of God. I can actually feel and see my growth. I feel the "joy that passes understanding" and more than anything, I have hope for myself and others. This to me is salvation....

I know that each of us is being led on their spiritual journey, to this place and just like me, they will get there when they are ready. I have no business telling them where they are going and what the condition of their soul is, because I do not have this knowledge, nor the authority to do this. The loving Creator that takes care of me is taking care of them, just like He/She/It, does the sparrows. My job is to strive to live each day in a way that's honoring of this gift I have been given of spiritual transformation. I take an account of myself daily to see where I can do better and strive to do that. I find this alone keeps me busy. No time to assess others.

March 2, 2009
3:56 pm
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Fantas,

Some people do take the bible to literally at times. And there are some that don't take it seriously enough.

Yes there are people out there that are judgemental, and hypocritical. There are those that try to force there beleifs down your throat. There are those that do things for the wrong motives. But this goes to all types of people not just born again Christians. Wouldn't you agree ?

I agree, that the word of GOD can be healing, but is also as Hebrews 4:12 says it is, this :

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

So sometimes the word of GOD can convict you, to change your ways. Would you not agree ?

This is my only point in all of this. Look, each and everyone of us will be held accountable on Judgement day.

I for one, want to know that I am found faithful. There are more things that you have said Fantas, that I feel you are off on. But I won't go into all of it now. I suggest, you contuine to read the bible and ask GOD for even more understanding.

We are to gently rebuke others that have the wrong, view if we know it to be wrong.

That is what I have done. I am not trying to harm anybody, or past judgement on them. For that is GOD's job not mine.

If anybody has read what I have wrote and feels uncomfortable about it. Especially the scriptures, I have shared. Then that is something you should take time to pray and talk to GOD about.

God's Best to all of you who have entered into this discussion.
Thank you for sharing your views with me.

tb

March 2, 2009
8:57 pm
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fantas
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TB, Thank you for your response as well. I like that there are things in my opinion you disagree with. I would be surprised if there weren't. My Christian experience and yours are obviously very different. Peace.

March 2, 2009
10:57 pm
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Fantas,
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I really enjoyed reading your post.

Healing
I have not seen the movie or read the book "A prayer for Bobby" but I will put it on my list. It sounds good.

March 2, 2009
11:31 pm
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Soofoo,

I cried so hard when I watched it, and I'm not one to normally cry when watching movies.... but I knew it was a true story so it really touched my heart.... hope you are able to watch the movie, or at least read the book.

March 3, 2009
2:20 pm
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Terriberry,

You sound like Hitler. You have been brainwashed and are unable to open your heart and mind to anything but what you have been told by some ignorant preacher and probably parents who were racist and homophoic.

I will pray for you. That God take away your hate and loathing, your judgement of those who are different.

I am offended that you can say the things that you do about fellow human beings. I am sure that you believe that Jews, and all non Baptist are going to hell because they don't worship in the same way that you do.

You have totally missed the reason for the existence of Jesus on this earth.

Cary

March 3, 2009
4:19 pm
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And yes, I am PISSED! This my life you are so casually discussing like it some kind of choice one makes. (I think I will join the country club, or have chocolate icecream today.)

Your words cause folks to feel justified in killing FAGS, they lead to children and young adults committing suicide because they aren't accepted by parents. They protect preist and clergy who moleste.

This isn't up for debate!! Let's talk about you as human being and your rights.

Signed Me (PISSED),

Cary

March 3, 2009
4:50 pm
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Caraway,

If you are pissed then take it up with GOD.

Just so you know I also lived that life style also, so I walked down the same path for 14 yrs. So do not assume you know my life or my cirucmstances. Even though your name calling is offensive, I understand your anger at the injustice. I am a human being, yes but I also am a believer in Jesus Christ.

I my it is people that you that generate hate.

tb

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