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Spirituality
September 21, 2005
5:46 pm
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brownie
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Hi camer.Is this a good name for this thread?

I think we should do it this way to be on the safe side.

But response to your question,its okay to serve jesus christ and god.But always always put god first before his son,like for example when your praying you have to always pray and ask things in jesus name or in the name of jesus christ then you can ask god for anything.Now about mary religions like the catholic serves mary.To me my personal opinion i am in no particular religion because there is already a spiritual warfare going on now.Different religions have different beliefs.My main religion is the bible.Of course now they have churches that are non-denomination which is no particular religion involved,its non-religious.

So its best to go by what the bible says,again my opinion but it would be up to you.But reality we are suppose to serve god thru his son jesus.What i meant also about my f-i-l serving two masters was god and the devil.It mentions somewhere in the new testament that you cannot serve god and manna,thats another name for satan the devil.It has to be one or the other.Sorry i confused you about that.I should have been more direct.I hope i answered your question.Anytime you want to ask about god and other things from the bible just ask away.Thats my duty to bring people over to god to preach the gospel to them so its never a problem.

September 21, 2005
6:50 pm
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" The Four Noble Truths:

1. The Truth Of Suffering - Life is subject to all kinds of suffering, the most basic being birth, aging, disease,and death. No one is exempt from these.

2. The Truth of the Cause of Suffering - Ignorance leads to desire and craving which invariably results in suffering. Craving produces rebirth, accompanied by passionate clinging to life, and its craving for pleasure, fame or materialistic possessions that causes great dissatisfaction with life.

3. The Truth of the Cessation of Suffering - Cessation of suffering comes from the total elimination of ignorance and the detachment from desires and cravings, reaching a state of supreme bliss or nirvana, wherein all sufferings are extinguished.

4. The Path Leading to the Cessation of Suffering is the Noble Eightfold Path.

The Noble Eightfold Path consists of:

1. Right Understanding - Have the knowledge of the Four Noble Truths so that one can understand things as they really are.

2. Right Thought. Develop the noble qualities of loving kindness and the aversion to cause harm to others.

3. Right Speech - Abstain from lying, idle-talk, slander, and harsh words.

4. Right Action - Abstain from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct.

5. Right Livelihood - Avoid any occupation that causes harm to others, such as dealing in intoxicants or butchering.

6. Right Effort - Have the assiduous self-discipline to attain full control of the mind so as to avoid evil mental states and develop wholesome mental states.

7. Right Mindfulness - Develop full awareness of all actions of the body, speech, and mind so as to avoid unwholesome acts.

8. Right Concentration - Attain mental quietude and thus wisdom to realize the full significance of the Four Noble Truths.

Those who accept this Noble Path as their way of life will live in perfect peace free from selfish desires, hatred, and cruelty and will be saturated with the spirit of selflessness and loving kindness."

Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings as interpreted by Master Hsing Yun, the 48th patriarch of the Linji school of Ch'an(Zen) Buddhism.

-------------------------

Once one attains the state of total 'selflessness' then a state of total 'Wholeness' or 'At-One-ness with the All' results. In this state there is nothing that can be gained or lost and no 'one'(i.e. a 'sense of self') to do the gaining or losing - there is just an awareness of a "state of supreme bliss". Now, this is spirituality at its finest. May all sentient beings find it now. - Tez

September 21, 2005
10:03 pm
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CAMER
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thanks Brownie...when i pray in the morning, like i do everyday, i say my "our father" speech and thank God for life and just talk, and i usually end it with thanking his son the Lord Jesus Christ for dying for me and rising back up again.....so i hope i am praying the right way, which i think i am.

I guess i misunderstood the God / Devil thing with your f.i.l.

(((thanks so much hon, for taking the time to explain all of this)))

Amd Tez////THANKS so much for all yo wrote....was just wondering since its called 4 noble truths, why 8 are listed??? just curious.

thanks ladies & have a wonderful peaceful nite!!

love camer

September 21, 2005
10:07 pm
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brownie
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Hi ladies.

Thanks tez but could you tell me some more about this?I never heard of noble before.

Camer you are saying the right way.No problem at all girlfriend.It was my fault for the way i explained it.

Nitey nite ladies.

September 22, 2005
6:17 pm
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CAMER

Thanks for the following question:

"... just wondering since its called 4 noble truths, why 8 are listed???"

The 8, to which you refer is the 8-fold path, not the 4 Noble Truths.

The 4 Noble Truths are about clearly defining the reality of all sentient life.

The 8-Fold path is showing the way to 'salvation' in a recipe style format.

September 22, 2005
6:25 pm
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Brownie.

You asked:

"Thanks tez but could you tell me some more about this?I never heard of noble before."

Are you asking me to define the meaning of the word noble?

"Noble:

... of lofty character, magnanimous, morally elevated; ... ... ; admirable." - Oxford Dictionary.

I hope this helps.

September 24, 2005
3:16 am
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brownie
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Hi Tez i'm sorry i did not respond yesterday but i had a busy day.

Thanks for giving me the definition of noble,i somewhat understand it but i still need more details and is it related to spirituality?

September 24, 2005
10:15 am
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I'm still not clear on how relieving my ignorance can relieve the sufferring caused by, I dunno, say me maniac housemate ripping my hair out by the roots. Death, that's a tough one to get around, too.

September 24, 2005
6:08 pm
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Worried_Dad.

Working backwards in the relationship between suffering and ignorance:

1. Suffering is a direct result of our attitude towards pain. The two are not synonomous. I clearly differentiate between the two.

2. Having certain insights into the causes of one's pain certainly can reduce and even remove the suffering component from a painful experience entirely.

3. Certain insights, that lead to the reduction and/or removal of suffering, can dispel ignorance.

Perhaps the deep insights into and the total realization of absolutely every cause and effect leading up to your housemate ripping your hair out by its roots might lead to the state of consciousness wherein the pain is accepted as a natural result of the law of cause and effects. In such a mental state(omniscience), that pain might be accepted unconditionally and all suffering, as opposed to the pain, could well cease to exist. Of course you would have to be a very enlightened being with little or no ignorance - i.e. omniscient - to be in such a mental state at that time of folicule deterioration. 🙂 Is the achievement of such a mental state possible? I believe so - many masters have achieved this state in the past.

As for the suffering involved in dying, again that is a function of one's attitude towards death. If one sees death as nothing more than a name for the transition from one state to the next that occurs in an undefinable instant, then perhaps one may not fear death.

On the other hand, upon dying, if one fears 'losing' what one thinks one 'owns', if one suffers from the illusion of the permanence of anybody or anything, if one believes that the 'self' who is doing the 'losing' really exists as a separate entity from all other, then death certainly holds the potential for much suffering.

After dying, if one expects judgement from a god who is not omniscient, not unconditionally loving but is who is whimsical(see Book of Job) and omnipotent to boot, then such a person has much to fear and death's stages of transition will involve much suffering for one in such a state of ignorance.

As for dying, the absolute prerequisite for this state is being born in the first place. Birth is a consequence of much that goes before it, the copulation of the parents being only one link of many in the chain of cause and effects leading to conception. Knowledge of these links and appropriate living now can lead to the state of enlightenment and behaviour that precludes future birth occurrences for the particular seemingly isolated stream of conscious awareness that one attributes to being the 'self'.

Even the seeming isolation of this awareness is a product of ignorance. All suffering ceased for the Shakyamuni Buddha at the time of his transition into parinirvana or total extinguishment of all of his 'negative traits'. But I'm convinced that the Buddha was well aware of the last spasms of his dying cells and the diminishing response of the pain receptors in his dying brain during the last transition stages of his death. Was he suffering then? No, I think not.

September 24, 2005
6:22 pm
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Hi brownie.

I do hope your nickname is not an abbreviated version of "brown eye". 🙂

On a more serious note, you asked:

"Thanks for giving me the definition of noble,i somewhat understand it but i still need more details and is it related to spirituality?"

Perhaps you could reflect at depth for some time upon what it means to be in a 'noble' state of mind. Learning from your own experiencing is far better than anything my mere words could communicate.

Notwithstanding that, I thank you for the opportunity afforded to me to reflect upon the necessity for having a 'pure'(noble) mind free from worldly attachments, graspings and clingings in order to attain a high state of spiritual enlightenment as opposed to fear based religiosity.

September 25, 2005
6:40 pm
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brownie
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Thank you tez for pinpointing that.I can see what your saying now.

You know tez i was really not thinking or concentrating at the time when you first posted about the word noble and i realize now that i know what it means.And i really appreciate what you said.It all makes perfect sense.Thanks for sharing that with me.

September 25, 2005
6:44 pm
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brownie
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Oh i forgot the name brownie isn't a abbreviated version of brown eye its the basic,brownie(chocolate cake).I was thinking to that maybe i should have used another name because when i see my name i sometimes feel hungry from seeing it.LOL.Funny right?I know my mother used to bring be brownies from her job when i was little.She worked at a restaurant famous for brownies.

September 25, 2005
7:12 pm
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Hi Tez,

Well of course, if only I didn't mind pain then I would never suffer.

I guess I see death as just the final painful event, the last indignity.

September 25, 2005
7:13 pm
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I actually hope we eventually come up with a vaccine against death--maybe even a cure.

September 25, 2005
7:53 pm
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Worried Dad.

"I actually hope we eventually come up with a vaccine against death--maybe even a cure."

Firstly science would have to stop or reverse the processes of the body that result in the deterioration of aging.

But even if they could do that, would you actually want to live forever, and ever, and ever, and ever ... ... ...only to be bored to death after just so much of the same old, same old, or die because of the effects of overpopulation in some horific way in a fight for space, for air to breathe, in a war or just in some accident?

As it is now, leaving a tired, worn out old body has its attractions that turns death from an enemy into a visit from a familiar old friend. After all our body and brain cells are dying on a daily basis. Some are being born on a daily basis and some are being similarly sustained. Thus birth, sustenance and death are an integral part of our daily experience. But because it is below our level of our awareness we are unfamiliar with the process.

At death instead of our daily waste passing, the whole lot of our body passes. However, that which underpins and oversees the birth, aging and death process of cells at a sub-sub-atomic level, moves on to govern just a continuum of those processes; the difference being that since the mind, the process governer, is freed of such responsibilities of such close monitoring and preoccupation, it is able to fly whither it wants. No wonder ecstacy and bliss await us, at least until the mind focuses on its past preoccupations, therein craving yet again another body in which to 'romp' and experience life's delusory promises of earthly satisfactions.

Is this what your mind really wants - an infinite amount of time of struggling for less pain and more pleasure in the various forms of food, possessions, sex and security always hoping but never finding any permanent satisfaction in any body(not even our own) or any thing?

The delusion, that given a long enough time and the where-with-all peace and happiness can be attained from this world, is part of the ignorance of which we spoke earlier; ignorance that causes so much suffering.

September 25, 2005
7:55 pm
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Brownie (as in cookie).

"Thanks for sharing that with me."

It was my pleasure. 🙂 Catch ya later.

September 25, 2005
10:58 pm
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Juanita
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If we all lived forever, the World would become a very over-populated place. It's natural resources unable to sustain the demand of all of humanity. We would all eventually suffer from living in our own Hell Hole... Garbage & waste from our daily existence having no where to go ... Our having no where to go... there being no food available to eat... Wars and fighting erupting over tight quarters... No, I do not want forever. I will give up my space on this Earth for another person to enjoy that which I do.

I prefer to give up my shell of a body and becoming a spirit or angel - whatever you believe - infinite energy perhaps... or the soul reincarnating into that of another life form - human or otherwise. That would be recycling, and infinite life in one way.

I cannot imagine living forever in this shell (body) of mine. Loving the same man for all of the years of my life.... infinity? Wow. I imagine the divorce rate would soar due to boredom..... "Honey, we've been married 835 years ~ no offense, but time for a change. You snore too loud!" Imagine the number of children you could have, and how many college tuition bills to pay! At what age would you hit puberty, middle age, or retire?

And, who is to say we'd remain young and youthful looking all those thousands of years? We may look like shriveled up, white haired, prunes forever... shrinking down to the size of Gnomes due to continued exposure of gravity and the need to conserve resources such as food and cotton for clothing. The smaller we were able to become, the better chance at a better eternal life I suppose.

No. I do not want to live forever in this human shell of mine. Release my spirit upon my death. Let me visit my decendants, be their guiding angel perhaps, or a gentle soul to help heal their own spirits as the need may arise.

Death does not scare me. I don't exactly jump to it though, but it does not scare me. All things created were made to die. Nothing is forever, except energy.

September 26, 2005
6:23 pm
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Juanita.

You make some very good points.

September 27, 2005
6:47 am
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brownie
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I just like to ask both to you juanita and tez,do your believe there is a god?Do you believe theres more to life than this?

I will give answers to this later.

Talk to your soon.

September 27, 2005
8:30 am
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I believe there is a God. But also am open to the concept that no one religion in particular is 100% correct. I am Catholic, but do not assume that means the Catholic religion is absolutely the know all of God. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and most tend to stick to the beliefs their parents instilled in them. Everyone tries to be their best, and do what is right (or at least I like to think we all do). Hopefully, the God I love, loves all his children... whether we follow the "right" religion or not - so long as we love Him & try our best not to hurt anyone in the process. I believe He knows our hearts and souls & will hopefully judge us on that.

I also believe in Angels, and that spirits can come back - be it as a "ghost" or reincarnate. There is SO much energy inside all of us... (some may call it 'Love', the energy inside us)... and as I said, energy does not end. I believe it just changes.

As a test, use this internal energy we possess and recall the image of a loved one. If you harness this energy, and draw it forth, your loved one is right there - able to connect to you and 'speak' with you.

Our loved ones are never gone - their energy, souls, love, lives on - just in another format.

One day, our formats will change too - or at least that is my belief.

Juanita

September 27, 2005
9:09 am
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brownie
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So glad to hear that juanita.We are both on the same page with religion.I had got baptized in a pentecostal church but i don't consider myself pentecostal.I am in no particular religion either.My family was brought up in the Jehovah Witnesses religion.Over the years i been looking for the right religion and i can absolutely agree with you that there is no religion that is 100%.

I considers my bible to be the religion.Alot of religions have different rules and laws that confuse people.And thats not a good thing to do.We as a people that are baptized in the name of christ must preach the word to people about god.We are suppose to follow his footsteps.And with all this talk about this religion and that is not helping people see what god is all about.

God is an wonderful,merciful,gracious and loving kind god.He definitely understands and knows our heart.He looks at the heart not the outward appearance.So he already knows and understands what we are doing.

And god does love us still regardless to us being in a religion or not.He is good.

He will judge us on that our hearts.

September 27, 2005
9:31 pm
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brownie

On the 27-Sep-05 you asked:

"... tez, do your believe there is a god? Do you believe there's more to life than this?"

I don't believe that the god of the Christian and biblical teachings exists.

I do believe in the 'Underpinnings' of all sentient and non-sentient beings, and objects, large and small, included within this universe and others if they exist being totally integrated into all that is All; that All being the Tathagata, or Supreme Reality that permeates all things - there is no other.

As far as there being "more to life than this", I presume you refer to life after life and/or to there some being 'meaning' and 'purpose' for human existence. The inference in your question is that you unquestioningly believe in a clear line of distinction between your 'self' and the rest of the universe.

You strongly infer that you believe in the existence of a 'you' as separate and distinct from your body, emotions, etc who is responsible to some patriarchal god for what the brain in this body believes, feels and does.

I seriously question the validity of the above inferences in either an absolute or a relative sense.

Spirituality does not have as a prerequisite belief in the authenticity of the biblical nature of the Christian god; a biblical nature which I find so repugnant.

September 28, 2005
9:21 pm
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Hi tez.

I just want to respond to what you said and that is i have respect for what you said.Everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs.I can't change how you feel and do not intend to.We are have our own beliefs.Thanks for sharing that with me.

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