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Spiritual Meaning of the Scriptures
April 22, 2008
6:10 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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wow I can't believe this. we are discussing relgion and no one is taking cheap shots at our beliefs and we are respecting each other!!!!!
let's keep it up.

I believe that heaven is a real nopt a specific place as we understand it. but a state of being.
I believe that we can all receive inspiration from the Holy Spirit. who is separate from God and Jesus.

April 22, 2008
7:59 pm
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on my way
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Garfield,
This is the New KJ Version, I like it better than the ye's, thee's and thou's. 🙂

VS. 22: "'the beggar died and WAS CARRIED BY THE ANGELS TO ABRAHAM'S BOSOM", which in other versions Abraham's bosom is translated as "Heaven".

I see this as someone (the beggar) being carried to a place after he died, namely 'Abraham's bosom' or 'heaven'. This verse says it is an existing, physical place, if angels carried him there. If someone in your family carried you somewhere from your home, you would end up in a different place.

VS. 23 is interesting though and I have never seen this insight before. "The rich man died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw..." etc.
Hell seems to be not a place like you said but a state of mind. And this is interesting according to these verses. As it goes on it says that the "rich man looks up". But nowhere does it mention that the beggar Lazurus can look down...interesting? I would imagine that part of Hell for the rich man is being able to look up and see where he might of gone...heaven, away from torment. Can you imagine? That would be like someone on earth deciding not to buy a lottery ticket when he had the winning numbers!! 🙂

So you have given me insight on these particular verses...thank you. Do you agree with anything that I have mentioned here?

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

April 22, 2008
10:50 pm
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OMW - What an insight from the scriptures for us codependents to know that we each have access to the higher power by our free will. The rich man wants to help (fix and control things / brothers), but Abraham says "They have Moses"...

I also see a liberating spiritual interpretation where some free will plays a role in choosing the light and what´s good in the quote:

"Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ 27".

The way this is written I interpret that for those who see or choose the darkness / what´s bad, its impossible (they cannot, not may not) see the light and what´s good.
I used to worried that if I had my share of good things and light, then I would have to have my share of bad things and darkness OR that in order for the light to exist, darkness had to be there because Rashneesh or Osho, religion as option #2, said that if one pedal of the bicycle goes up, the other has to go down. Maybe the down pedal is always there, but we can chose the up pedal, and being up, we cannot be down.

It seems possible to reconcile Oprah with the scriptures, after all 🙂

April 22, 2008
11:26 pm
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Garfield, I like what you said:

"We have natural eyes and spiritual eyes. If I ask you to close your eyes and talk to you about two people doing the tango - you will be able to see this with your spiritual eye."

There is a quote in the scriptures where it says that God´s eyes are too pure to see evil. Enlightened spiritual eyes are the ones in the beholder´s in that saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Seeing what is good can be reached by the spiritual eye.

If I remember some reading of Rashneesh / Osho (I may be wrong) in the 70s, he told of an enlightened spiritual master who once passed by the roadside of a poor village where there laid a dead dog. His disciples were quick to push him to the other side so he wouldn´t see the dead dog, but he did. And he said something like how beautiful were the dog´s eyes. He chose to see the dog´s beauty, not uglyness. Isn´t that inspiring?

April 22, 2008
11:27 pm
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OMW, I see something different than, as you said, it is an existing, physical place, if angels carried him there".

Its a Christian´s interpretation, but different. I agree with Christian Mary Baker Eddy´s spiritual interpretation that angels are any 100% good thoughts in the book Science and Health with the key to the scriptures, so I believe angels can carry us anywhere (good) and we shall still remain in the same place...

Well, that´s it for spiritual interpretation of the scriptures and my analogies for now. Hope that´s not taking it too far, yet... I may soon be talking about how Scott gets to be "beamed up" by another member of Starship Enterprise.

April 22, 2008
11:36 pm
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OMW, grandmother meant "time" as in "I don´t have any more time to write, right now". I can´t remember where she quoted it from, I believe it was some astrological prophet.

hugs

April 23, 2008
9:05 am
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I´m taking a break here from posting, gotta "pray wit my feet moving" if I wanna pay my bills.

hugs,

April 26, 2008
2:15 pm
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Hi to all

Sorry for only getting back to you know. My husband came back from Dubai Wednesday night with a 'bug' and my two daughters also got that from him. I have been running around 3 sick people 24/7. Everthing seems to be under control now.

Love

Garield

April 26, 2008
2:22 pm
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Tiger Trainer

You said

"wow I can't believe this. we are discussing relgion and no one is taking cheap shots at our beliefs and we are respecting each other!!!!! let's keep it up."

Yes, there is no reason for fighting. We can respect one another and should keep it this way. I agree.

Thanks for this input of yours. It's really important.

Love garfield

April 26, 2008
2:38 pm
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on my way

you said

"VS. 22: "'the beggar died and WAS CARRIED BY THE ANGELS TO ABRAHAM'S BOSOM", which in other versions Abraham's bosom is translated as "Heaven".

I see this as someone (the beggar) being carried to a place after he died, namely 'Abraham's bosom' or 'heaven'. This verse says it is an existing, physical place, if angels carried him there. If someone in your family carried you somewhere from your home, you would end up in a different place"

I can understand what you say and mean. So this means that there is physically today a (beggar) still phisically in a phiscal mans bosom called Abhraham. ??? If this is not what you meen please explain. I have to disagree.

If the rich man died (like we die one day) his phisical body would also like ours decompose?

You said

"VS. 23 is interesting though and I have never seen this insight before. "The rich man died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw..." etc. Hell seems to be not a place like you said but a state of mind. And this is interesting according to these verses. As it goes on it says that the "rich man looks up". But nowhere does it mention that the beggar Lazurus can look down...interesting?

omw I believe that heaven and hell is a state of mind.

" I would imagine that part of Hell for the rich man is being able to look up and see where he might of gone...heaven, away from torment. Can you imagine? That would be like someone on earth deciding not to buy a lottery ticket when he had the winning numbers!! 🙂 "

This precise description of yours is all spiritual and not natural and I agree. Read what you said here.

"So you have given me insight on these particular verses...thank you. Do you agree with anything that I have mentioned here?"

Yes, so hell for the rich man is being able to look up and see where he might of gone ... heaven.

omw this is spiritual interpretation.

Love

Garfield

April 26, 2008
2:55 pm
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Sininho

You Said

"Maybe the down pedal is always there, but we can chose the up pedal, and being up, we cannot be down. "

YES, We have a choice.

You siad

"If I remember some reading of Rashneesh / Osho (I may be wrong) in the 70s, he told of an enlightened spiritual master who once passed by the roadside of a poor village where there laid a dead dog. His disciples were quick to push him to the other side so he wouldn´t see the dead dog, but he did. And he said something like how beautiful were the dog´s eyes. He chose to see the dog´s beauty, not uglyness. Isn´t that inspiring? "

One of the most destrucitve things we where taught is that life is born out of circumstances on a plate called Luck or Fate. I have been taught that I have to work, work , work , do, do, do, toil, strive sweat etc. and then if we are lucky we might succeed.

FALSE

From toddler's we were trained to look for the wrong and bad in everthing! With relationships, jobs, our clothes, health, our children etc.

We have to have a change of attitude and see life for what it is. Not what we have been programmed it to be

Love

Garfield

April 26, 2008
3:10 pm
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Sininho

"I´m taking a break here from posting, gotta "pray wit my feet moving" if I wanna pay my bills"

I cannot agree more. We pray with our feet. Imagine you stay at home and pray to God that your bills be paid????? Nothing will happen. You have to do somthing about it

Love

Garfield

April 26, 2008
7:25 pm
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Hi, there,

There is a parable that sends a beautiful message to me. It is one here crums fall from the rich man´s table and the dogs beneath readily eat them. I first thought, LUCK for the rich man and FATE for the dogs, right? Then I realized, not if while you get the bread, you don´t appreciate it, but while you get the crums you´re happy! I wonder what other interpretations there may be for this passage.

hugs,

April 27, 2008
1:35 am
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sininho

The rich man gave the crumbs of his table to the dogs, but did not want to give it to Lazarus.

I will have to think about this. The rich man to me is somebody that knows allout spiritually, but does not give to others.

Say if we receive spiritual food and never share our knowledge we just eat at the table, then be become rich.

Not sure about the dogs (normally they lick sores) if you read in the scriptures.

Love

Garfield

April 27, 2008
1:05 pm
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I like what sininho and garfield said. My mom always said, "Pray like everything depended on the Lord then work like everything depended on you."
this whole thread has really enriched my life as I read about everyone's personal interpretations.

What do ya'll think of James 2 where it says:" faith without works is dead."

April 27, 2008
3:01 pm
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Tiger Trainer

Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

In no uncertain terms we see from the scriptures that faith without works or deeds is dead.

The one goes hand in hand with the other.

Thanks for this input TT

Love

Garfield

April 27, 2008
5:37 pm
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Hey Garfield nice to know someone knows the verses i do. To me this goes back to being 'Christian." It's no good to say that you've accept Christ and then sit back and think you work is done. You've got to do things too.

April 28, 2008
9:12 am
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Yes TT this is exactly what it means.

Its a way of life.

Wanted to add the burning bush and Moses

Ex 3:2

And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a BUSH: and he looked, and, behold, the BUSH burned with fire, and the BUSH was not consumed.

Ex 3:3

And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the BUSH is not burnt.

Ex 3:4

And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the BUSH, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Now here we have a burning bush that was never consumed. If this was natural then somewhere on this earth there must still be a burning bush that burns forever.

The way I see it is where 2 or 3 gather in my name there I will be. There are thousands of people that form groups throughout the week and get together to discuss the Godliness.

These are the burning bushes and the will never be consumed

April 30, 2008
6:21 pm
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interesting idea. also he was supposed to remove his shoes because it was a holy site.

May 1, 2008
10:08 am
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Tiger Trainer

Yes He says something like the ground is Holy and he must take his shoes off

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