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Special note to Barefootgirl
June 11, 2010
2:20 pm
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chelonia mydas
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I just wanted share some thoughts I have after reading your recent post from the Coffeehouse where you thought that you weren't liked or wanted on some threads and on the support side of the board in general.

The coffeehouse thread has benefited greatly from your posting there and it is a loss to us all if you have not been posting because you feel unwelcome or unwanted. That simply isn't the case, you are encouraged and certainly wanted.

I'm thinking that maybe the disagreements that have happened on other threads have led to some people feeling not liked (or even hated). I encourage you to look at the possibility of confusing a disagreement with someone not liking/hating you. I understand this confusion very well because I, myself feel that way if someone has a different opinion, especially if they feel strongly about it and voice it with an attitude. I still have to take some time to evaluate the situation and see if its just a difference of perspective/opinion or if there really is a dislike.

And if it really is that they hate me... I have to ask myself SO WHAT? Am I going to change what I want because someone has an issue with me? At first I evaluate if there issues have merit? (for example, perhaps it wasn't a good idea to say that their baby looks like a monkey... yes they have every right to have issue with me after that comment, but that is also a time for me to learn from that experience and realize that its not good to insult someone's child if I want to be their friend. Yes silly, example but you get what I'm saying) Making mistakes is how I learn and how I improve for the future. I pissed off loads of people, some if it I'm at fault for and some of it I'm not. I evaluate, learn and do my best in the future by incorporating the new info (sometimes, or at least when I do it again, I can acknowledge that I will continue to learn this lesson until I do incorporate it into my life.)

Does that mean that those of us that do like you have to miss out on your participation because some others have made you feel like they don't like you? Consider ignoring the ugly attitudes that let them deal with their issues concerning you, while you work through your issues.

If you are choosing to stay away from the support side because you want to, I support that choice fully and accept that. But please consider returning to the support side if you are doing it because you are allowing others to control your actions due to miscommunications, disagreements and encountering opportunities to develop better social skills.

Sending you big hugs and support to be who you want to be.

It might be a while yet before I can get back on here, so if I don't respond, its because I can't. But I'll check back when I can.

Stop by the coffeehouse from time to time. I'd love to have dessert with you.

June 11, 2010
6:02 pm
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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(((Chelonia mydas))))
Gosh...thank you so much for caring about me and writing what you did...I think its just best for me to not share things when I hurt inside...I stopped doing this with my parents...it got to the point where if I had any thing to say...it would be my fault...I would be the bully when I stand up for myself...just like here...I can't win no matter what...I am judged for feeling hurt...I just keep learning over and over again to just shut my mouth and have no thoughts...that is how I grew up and I was basically opinionless and scared...now when I do speak out...I am the bully...no matter what I do...I suffer...this is prolly why I beenb alone and isolated most my life...fear of talking...or fear of having no sense of self...

I wish you were my sister cause you are a rare person around here...I am trying to see where I went wrong...so basically I should of just ignored the post that hurt me but yet keep sharing my mind? Maybe that is what I will do...I will only talk to people for now on who I get along with...honestly ...what else is there to do? I can't help my passion and I can't help to get hurt so much...what is left?

June 11, 2010
6:48 pm
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That would be nice chelonia...can I go hiking with you too? I love being outdoors...I love to hike...I often do not go much anymore...as much as I used too cause I moved close to a large city and its not like I am used too...

Hope your ok...be safe wherever you are...thinking of you...((((Chelonia!)))

June 11, 2010
7:08 pm
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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I do not think I have any social skills chelonia....never learned them and I am thinking maybe that is why I am alone......

June 11, 2010
8:31 pm
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CAMER
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Barefoot & Chleonia (((((hugs to you both))) you are both inspiring and worthy people on this site!!!!

June 11, 2010
11:42 pm
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chelonia mydas
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Hey BFG,

I'd love to go hiking with you. No one is born with social skills, its something we learn by trial and error. I have to disagree with ya though, you DO have social skills. It just seems that you prefer to avoid confrontation and conflict, which is reflected in your choice to come here when things got heated on the other side. Avoidance is a social skill.

There is nothing wrong with that if it is what you want. If it isn't what you want, then it is a chance to try something new and see if it works. That is just a part of learning.

Look at it this way, there are a variety of social skills that we can develop. The ones that we practice the most are the ones that we get the best at and then those become our "favored" and "comfortable" ways of doing things.

We have the capacity to develop and learn a variety of social skills. But we have to usually be given opportunities to experience and practice those skills. Similar to expecting someone to learn reading if no one ever has taught them. If you are a 40 year old person who can't read, do you assume that you don't have the ability to ever read??? No, the ability to aquire that skill is there, its just that the opportunity to learn how either wasn't available or wasn't explored. It is still possible to learn to read at any age if provided with opportunities to learn. Does it mean that this person can't communicate at all because they can't read? No, they have been communicating in other ways their whole life that have served them well. So it would be incorrect for them or anyone else to beleive that they can't communicate, only that they haven't learned to read yet.

Some of us here are emotionally/socially unexperienced in healthy interaction. We can get by with the skills we have, just as the person in the above analogy still communicates. Its more limited and they struggle with things that people who know how to read take for granted. For example if you can't read, you can't buy some types of generic canned foods that just have a plain lable without pictures- I never thought of that until I moved to an area with a high rate of adult illiteracy.

I reached adulthood totally socially unprepared to interact in a healthy way with anyone, not even myself. Many of the basic lessons that many people learn as they grow up, I was clueless on (like not cussing out your boss) and I had to learn by experience (getting fired).

These threads are a safe place for us to learn and practice these skills in ways that will not impact our daily lives. Here if you manipulate, put down or otherwise act out, you are called on it and others share their perspectives. For those that are really disruptive and don't seem to be here to learn from their mistakes, the SC takes care of them. But for the most part, we interact, make mistakes, learn from them, develop a new skill that will help us be healthier people in our non-cyber lives.

So if the outcome of your interaction with another person or people here wasn't what you wanted, look at it. What contributed to it being different than you expected? What could you try in the future to create an outcome closer to what you were striving for? Were there old habits and hurts that contributed to your reaction or perception of the situation that you could look at for future interactions.

I don't see where there is anything wrong with you. You are a human just like the rest of us. You have specific strengths and weaknesses that make you unique but you are not unique in having wonderful qualities to be celebrated by all and some areas that allow for learning and growth. We all have those, they just come in different flavors for all of us.

Its good to see you post. I encourage you to look at all your interactions with others as opportunities to learn and grow. If it turns out well, then you have practiced and further developed that skill. If it turns out not as you planned, then you have an opportunity for reflection and learning where you can move on and choose something different in the future.

June 12, 2010
9:22 am
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(((((Mydas)))))you have a good heart and wow...I can tell you came a long long way yourself.

I also use to fight with people A lot more way back when I was younger...when I was learning how to drive...at age 32! My husband taught me...he took me out every sat am and made it fun for me...held my hand and was very gentle...he wanted me to have independence in life...he did what no one else would for me.

When we got into traffic...I was afraid to go over 35 and this guy behind me was slamming on the horn in a very aggressive way..I then slowed down and stopped and gave him the finger and started screaming at him...

I did not care that traffic was held up...I did not even realize that...I was scared, trapped and had no idea that you should go into the other lane or just go the speed limit...

June 12, 2010
10:02 am
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I am just thinking here...why do I feel so afraid to share my thoughts on here? Many times I been on a thread and wanted to say somethinf but didn't cause I did not want to hurt someones feelings...so in fact its ok to give your opinion here if you know it might ruffle a feather? I do understand that everyone has a right to their opinion...I understand that now a bit better...always did...just I got emotional I suppose...I just always thought if it aint kind or it may offend...that was wrong...so its ok then? Just confused here..really confused...I feel safe talking with you mydas..you have a lot of class and a big heart...so I trust what you say to me...

June 12, 2010
10:22 am
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MsGuided
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(((Chelonia Mydas))))

I want to thank u for stepping up, taking the time to support BFG.

I think you're one of the most perceptive, well rounded, truly recovered, BRAVE and caring people on these boards, and tho I don't post to you much ( at all lately,;0/) I wanted to let you know I REALLY appreciate your input. Everything you posted are helpful to everyone on these boards.

(((BFG)))

You can't allow what other people say limit your actions IF you have done nothing wrong but express your feelings and an opinion. People will always be in conflict about their spiritual paths, and politics. It's a reality.

Basically the "Meltdown" thread has a lot of people who want more balance, fairness, peace and ACCOUNTABILITY on this planet. GOOD FOR US that we are pointing out what is wrong. It's not easy to fight the POWER ya know! Not easy to come out of denial. It's a risky practice that will incite disagreements. WE ROCK! ;0)

I really do appreciate you BFG and support you on your healing journey. I thank you for the support you've given me!

Stand proud and speak your truth. Realize and embrace those who support that truth. Carry on and let those that differ from you, try to suppress you, BE!! Let it roll off. :0)

Be well!

June 12, 2010
10:42 am
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Thank you sd...I agree with most of what you say...but anyhow...I just have a hard time saying something that might hurt someone here...I could of never said what cary did to someone else...yes I do agree he is entitled here to say whatever he feels and that is allowed here...I would be very interested what misguided feels about this...I would like to hear her thoughts....mksguided you here?

June 12, 2010
11:13 am
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((((((Msguided!))))))

June 12, 2010
11:18 am
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Old age and small letters on my blackberry aren't helping me...
Misguided...you and mydas are two of my fave people here...I just want you to know that! There is a good hanful of people here that I love to converse with and you two along with a few others have greatly impacted my life and my happiness in life...a big hug to you two and those other special people here who I have really come to a special place in my heart and mind...thanks!

June 12, 2010
11:21 am
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MsGuided
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I'm here but about to sign off.

I think Cary was directing most of his comments toward me.

I said people are a cancer, and he repeatedly posted my comments. Specifically that one.

I won't take that comment back.I think he chose a less direct way of trying to shut me down.

Check this out.

"Cancer /'kæns?r/ ( listen) (medical term: malignant neoplasm) is a class of diseases in which a group of cells display uncontrolled growth (division beyond the normal limits), invasion (intrusion on and destruction of adjacent tissues), and sometimes metastasis (spread to other locations in the body via lymph or blood). These three malignant properties of cancers differentiate them from benign tumors, which are self-limited, and do not invade or metastasize. Most cancers form a tumor but some, like leukemia, do not."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer

I see very clear parallels of our existance to that disease.

We exibit incontrolled growth and invade. We take over wild places and farm in stead of hunt. ( look up the consequneces of factory farming on the environment) This causes stress and death to other living creatures, the ecosystem, including ourselves ( think war, and toxic runoff from manufacturing, and farming )

We tap into resources in a way that creates pollution and toxins. This in turn causes more disease and death to the nearby occupants.

Nobody can deny the environmental destruction caused by us.

People do not live in symbiotic harmony with nature anymore.

Maybe if i said "greed is a cancer" that would be more specific.

People harbour and enable such GREED! Am i supposed to candy coat what i said?

We even cause great harm and suffering to our own kind. Within our own families! GAWD! ANIMALS do so much better with their own family units and their use of resources. However most poeple think animals are lesser than US!???

I guess that's why nothing much is done about the plight and suffering of living species! They just aren't as important as us!??

It's a reality.

Now what do we do to cure it!?

June 12, 2010
11:26 am
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I just want to add something here...I am niw in my yard and enjoying the sun..the blue skys...the birds...even my barking dogs...its a beautiful day...yet a severe storm is coming...that is why I am outside being happy now...cause its coming...we can apply this to life...we can speak the truth but still enjoy the good...we all know that here...but instead of just doing all the chores...I choose to first come out here on my deck...the trees are swaying some but they sound like the ocean! The sky in the distance is not as blue as it is near my home...but it is for now peaceful...my flowers provide a beautful scent when thw wind blows...even as I hear rhe siren down below us in the valley...its all ok...for now;)

June 12, 2010
11:31 am
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We posted at the same time...I was curious about how you felt as I felt you were more so attacked here than myself...I am thankful that you posted about it....I think you rock too msg...I love your posts and your spunk!!! ((((((((MISGUIDED)))))))))

June 12, 2010
11:37 am
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The problem here is that people as a whole are like sheep...easily herded and controlled by power, money and by societys institions like the church
...There is so much wrapped around us from so early on that when we get even a glimpse...we hate the one who shows the truth....that is why the plan will succeed here....I honestly do not see enough people caring msg....people do not want to be a conspiracy nut...its goes aganist our way of life....our comfort zone...humans are basically selfish beings......

June 12, 2010
11:41 am
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time to log off now myself....we can at least talk, share and try to educate people....at least we can sleep with a good conscience knowing we at least tried...much better than being in denial and selling our souls to the darkness......

June 12, 2010
2:40 pm
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MsGuided
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Hi (((BFG)))
U said: "I am now in my yard and enjoying the sun..the blue skys...the birds...even my barking dogs...its a beautiful day...yet a severe storm is coming...that is why I am outside being happy now...cause its coming..."

Holy Cannolis! Are we in the same area>?LOL

Same here with this picture. Actual storms are coming but the sun is shining right now. We have a lovely property where nature is all around us. Believe me I do the exact same thing to keep my sanity and quell my worries. I just planted some "Blue Boy" Summer Phlox, Pampas Grass and Papyrus around our "dry well". I designed a small rockery garden where the greywater from our eaves and sump goes during rainfall. It's an old fashioned, eco friendly, way to deal with runoff instead of using sewers. ( We're working on getting off the "grid" as part of my "do something" plan that doesn't impact the environment or others)

We can enjoy some benefits from these storms. HA! I hope my Phlox blooms really well this summer. ;0)

Nature is my church but I can't say I like squirrels or rabbits much,LOL!. Not much of a vermin worshipper. ahahaha

I was never controlled by the church, always question authority so I've never had my critical thought taken away. Most Authority doesn't have other peoples best interest at heart. It is pure ego gratification and self serving. Talking a good game whilst they line their pockets.

I think it would be wonderful if a traditional Native American became the PM or President! Dream ON! ;0/

Money is freedom and some people will do ANYTHING to get it. Pretty sad.

I just try to find people who are connected to nature, have their values grounded in self empowerment, sharing and compassion, and are non materialistic.

Thanx for the kind comments BTW.
Have a great weekend!

June 12, 2010
4:30 pm
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Anyone who got voted in would go along with them...no one good would make it in and if they did...they would do their bidding...
I am in the northeastern part of the states....its getting darker now but that is ok...along with the rain comes the cooler temps and I have no air, just fans...don't like air and its also humid...
So I welcome the storms...ur in canada right?

June 12, 2010
5:08 pm
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Mydas...I guess I will get slammed for saying goodbye to you...but sobeit...your one of the nicest most understanding person I ever known...your a true credit to this board...I relly cankt stand to be here anymore...I am now shaking and cankt understand the rage...I did apoloize bit that is not good enough...I honestly meant no harm...I am sorry and take care bfg

June 12, 2010
10:56 pm
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chelonia mydas
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Hey BFG,

B R E A T H E... lllloooonnnngggg, s l o w, deeeeeeeep breaths. You can get through this.

I support you doing whatever you need to do. Only you know what is best for you. But I suggest that you stay here and work through this, with all of here here at AAC, together. You have a lot of support here. Don't let your hurt blind you to that, there are many people who will help light your path on your journey of recovery. But you have to want to be here too and you have to continue to walk the path of recovery even when that path is covered in sharp stones and sometimes broken glass.

You are worthy of being here, of being heard, of learning and growing and existing in this space as much as anyone else here. People are not against you, they are just being people. We are all influenced by our perceptions and feelings, which sometimes makes us act in ways that are misunderstood by others.

I read a little bit of the "meltdown" thread (just the last two days) and see a more of what you are facing. If that thread is upsetting you to the point where you feel rage, then walk away from it. Its OK to let it go. There is always another day and time to return when things are different.

I learned to let go of the ownership of any given thread. I have found that I can only give life to a thread by starting it, but after that I have to let it go. Once the Send Reply is clicked, it becomes an entity of its own that is shaped by those who post on it as ideas and experiences melt into the fabric of that thread's existance. Trying to own an ACC thread it is like trying to own a wild animal, its best left on its own to follow the path of its cyber existance. Read and post only as long as it brings you healing, when it becomes something that hinders your growth, just walk away from it.

The only things I feel like I own here are my intentions, actions, reactions and choices, the rest exists outside of my control and ownership. This is as it should be. This is something I did not know when I first came here, but have learned over the years as things have happened that have helped me learn and grow.

Now to answer some of your earlier questions about speaking out even if we know it will hurt someone...

Its a balance if you know there is a chance of ruffling feathers. I usually ask myself these questions:

how important is it that this person (or group of people) has this information?

is sharing it in the best interests of the greater good?

is the pain from growth or from spite?

am I certain that it is true and real and relevant?

what is my motiviation in sharing this?

will the help that it will produce outweigh the hurt that it will cause?

There is no right or wrong answer to any of these questions, only things to consider before speaking out. It is good to share your thoughts and feelings and participate in social activities with others. But if you have something that is potentially painful to share its best to carefully consider the situation.

There are many things that can be shared that are not intended to hurt others. If you are unsure about sharing, start with some of those topics. Weather, food, entertainment, anecdotes about kids, pets and other cute things are usually fairly safe topics. Sharing your experience without offering advice to another is also very valuable. I often prefer to just share a bit of my story because then they can make up their own mind about what do to with it.

I'll be away from home for a few more days, but will do my best to go to the library a couple more times while I'm here.

Sending you lots of hugs and support.

June 13, 2010
1:49 pm
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marypoppins
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Barefootgirl,

I haven't read every post regarding this issue, but I wanted you to know that I can relate to what you're feeling.

In the past, we had some threads going about religion on this side. I posted about transgressions done "in the name of God" by people of authority in the church and also about inconsistencies in the Bible. Without going into all of it, it was something I felt passionately about. A particular poster periodically inserted herself into the threads calling me a Christian hater and commenting how useless and negative the thread was. She even talked about it on other threads. She called me other names and used it as a way to shame me. All of this she did under the umbrella of "having a right to post her opinion".

If people are having a conversation in "real life", anyone just dropping into the conversation and commenting on the nature or value of the conversation would be considered rude. But, this is a public forum. Therefore, I suppose we need to remember that.

There are people here who will repeat how important it is for everyone to have a right to his/her opinion, yet then tell others, whether directly or indirectly, what they should do or what they should say.

Not everyone is in counseling. Not everyone is working a recovery program. Not everyone is healthy. We are the blind leading the blind in some respects.

Do not take anything that happens here too seriously. I've been here long enough to not get too worked up about things. However, I also rarely post, so I'm not as invested emotionally as I once was.

It's hard to work something out on a public forum. That being said, it can be an excellent place to work some things out.

Just remember that no one person here has all the answers or always does everything in a healthy way. We're all trying to learn. It would be nice to hear apologies sometimes or acknowledgements, but that's often like trying to get our parents to apologize. It's just not going to happen.

Today is a new day.

You have as much right to be here as anyone else. Often our battles here remind us of battles we had in childhood. It's our chance to learn. If what you have to say is important to you, and you know in your heart that you're not trying to hurt anyone, than don't let what others say bother you. It's hard to do sometimes. We may feel the need to stand up for ourselves. Keep posting and you will work it out.

No one is perfect. We don't have to be.

Love to you!

Mary

June 13, 2010
2:32 pm
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(((Mary Poppins))) I have been reading this thread trying to form my thoughts on what I wanted to say. I am still working on it. You know you have hurt my feelings in the past and I am positive I have hurt yous but as you said today is another day. 😉

Bitsy

June 13, 2010
5:24 pm
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Mary...thank you:) something mydas said striked an idea...gave me some hope...I shouldn't leave...I need to learn how to get along with people...I started a very non threathening...at least I hope! Thread about gardens and ponds...please visit...
You do not have to talk about your garden...if you don't want too...I. Just want a safe place to be...a place for us all to share our love of nature and garden tips or whatever...
Here hoping it works:)

June 14, 2010
11:06 am
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MsGuided
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(((Mary)))

I always know you will post something that is balancing when conflict erupts.

You said: "If people are having a conversation in "real life", anyone just dropping into the conversation and commenting on the nature or value of the conversation would be considered rude . But, this is a public forum. Therefore, I suppose we need to remember that.

There are people here who will repeat how important it is for everyone to have a right to his/her opinion, yet then tell others, whether directly or indirectly, what they should do or what they should say. "

I'll post this word. Hypocracy. ( and control issues) Yea I know how to spot it and i don't live that way. I don't act that way.

I won't fall down when a bunch of ankle biters, and town criers, start their work. I'll kick it away and tell them find something better to do like "work on yourself."

I was reminded by a good friend this weekend. Something simple.
"When it comes to people and getting personal, if you haven't something postive to say then don't say it"...he went on to say that if there is conflict then work it out, to a positive end trying to respect their feelings and STCK BY THEM, as long as real betrayal issues aren't there.

It isn't so simple tho. Sometimes we get lost and confused and THAT should be considered too. UNDERSTAND when someone is feeling helpless, lost and confused. Hurting them more is just mean nad destructive.

I'll let people work it out here and it's all ok as long as they take accountability.

Accountability is running a DEFICIT HERE!

U know I don't think I can work much out here anymore either.Due to what i said above AND i am focusing on home.

Thanks for stopping by. I was waiting and there it is! Perfect!

The Mary go round stops and lets a good bunch ( observations) off. aaahahaha!

(((bevdee))) welcome back, delayed but hey! I think u understand. LUV YOU!:0)

That's it for now. Back to the 3 dimensions.

Be Well!

(((all of us)))

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